Squeezing doesn't mean affection?

From: http://www.reptileforums.net/forums/...p/t-72207.html

"I've only recently been showing him the affection mentioned earlier, because it dawned on me that if he's showing me affection by squeezing, the best way for me to show it back is by squeezing, so I press firmly with my finger as I stroke him kind of deal."

After some time here, and doing research, I've lately theorized that a snake can feel comfortable in their environment. Comfortable/safe with their Handler. But if they're squeezing that means they are clinging to you because they think they are about to fall.

Also... Tickling isn't a form of affection... it's aggressive play. It's a form of torture. And this might be my opinion, but tickling may make humans laugh (uncontrollable reaction) but it doesn't mean it's fun. Too often, and you're being mean. Too much, and it's seriously just creepy. Especially if the tickler is far bigger and stronger.

This post I shared kinda gave me some "creep" vibes. Mostly due because of the wording she (or he?) used. "Humping?"

I just... I don't even know...


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that post was very weird; they didn't seem like they had a full understanding of how snakes behave. the "humping" thing was just ridiculous, because there's no way that's what that behavior was. snakes squeeze as a way to move around and better their grip, nothing more or less. i would never squeeze my snake because they have no understanding of what i'm doing, and i wouldn't put that unnecessary stress on them.

When my snake flicked her tongue at me, I thought she wanted to 'make out' so I gave her a big sloppy kiss and she bit me face!!!

Y I K E S.

Snakes don't even "hump" to mate. Their reproductive organs just kind of slide out and they just sit there for hours. That post is creepy as heck. They want their snake to love them so badly that they pretend their snake is trying to mate with them. Yikes yikes yikes

Too cringey for me. I didn't get past the part where the OP was hoping her Mex Black King would get as big as an Eastern Indigo.

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

When my snake flicked her tongue at me, I thought she wanted to 'make out' so I gave her a big sloppy kiss and she bit me face!!!

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Oh, come on. Nothing but a little love nip! ;) That means she LOOOOOVES you!!!



The thread in that link gave me the creeps. What is so wrong with loving a species that is intellectually not capable of returning love?? Can't they just be happy that their snake learns to trust them not to get eaten and tolerates handling? Why are humans so needy?? I can love and appreciate something for what it is, without expecting the same in return.

If they want to pretend their snakes love them and love to rest on their shoulders to lovingly gave into their eyes. Well, if it makes them happy..

The only danger in this is when beginners or prospective owners read stuff like that and expect their snake to act like a loyal little dog, if only they put enough love and petting into it. When the snake ends up acting, well, like a snake, they are disappointed. They think something is wrong with THIS snake. The snake ends up being boring and a disappointment and we all know where it goes from there.

...and that whole thread they've got going over there is just another reason why it's so nice on this forum. I learn something of value every day. Thanks everyone. I hope I end up being a valuable member here, like so many of you.

Waaaaaay too much anthropomorphization happening there. Someone should probably set them straight.

Oddly the anthropomorphism doesn't bother me much any more - it makes them feel closer and more attuned to the animal which possibly means better care standards.

I still disagree with most of their assumptions but if they get the snake to the right place I'm happy to ignore the journey.

See that's why you can't sell your snakes to just anyone.:( smh some people are so creepy.

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Originally Posted by dr del

Oddly the anthropomorphism doesn't bother me much any more - it makes them feel closer and more attuned to the animal which possibly means better care standards.

I still disagree with most of their assumptions but if they get the snake to the right place I'm happy to ignore the journey.

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That's good if it goes that way!

The other possibility is it makes them believe their snakes are like dogs, and they bring the snake everywhere with them until it gets sick and dies. Their prideful belief of how happy and loved their animal obviously feels makes them ignore good husbandry practice for the species, because their snake is "happy, loves me, and perfectly fine". Yay

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Originally Posted by dr del

Oddly the anthropomorphism doesn't bother me much any more - it makes them feel closer and more attuned to the animal which possibly means better care standards.

I still disagree with most of their assumptions but if they get the snake to the right place I'm happy to ignore the journey.

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I think some levels of it is ok. We are empathetic creatures, after all, so it's natural for us to do so.

However putting yourself/the snake in danger or making them believe they are in danger... that is a level of mistaken anthropomorphism that isn't ok.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...b3af7b0fe0.jpg

This guy, for example. If the article it was attached to is to be believed, he died because of one of his snakes. I don't doubt it.


Herp Derp

Uhhh yep, thats creepy...
Now Put The Lotion In The Basket


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Originally Posted by redshepherd

That's good if it goes that way!

The other possibility is it makes them believe their snakes are like dogs, and they bring the snake everywhere with them until it gets sick and dies. Their prideful belief of how happy and loved their animal obviously feels makes them ignore good husbandry practice for the species, because their snake is "happy, loves me, and perfectly fine". Yay

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Very good point. I have also seen someone tell others (newbies incl.) to not bother with all those hides. Because if you want the snake to be "social", you shouldn't have more then one hide. So you actually get to see it, too. You should give it toys, like little kitten balls, for "enrichment". And that things such as that will turn out a social, loving snake.

Hey, I talk to my snakes. Knowing full well they can't "hear" me. LOL. I love them and my heart melts when they look at me as if they understand what I'm saying. I totally agree it is actually a GREAT thing to be so excited and "into" reptile ownership. If one wants to see more into it, so be it. Let them have fun with it.

But when it gets to the point that basic husbandry falls to the wayside, or the the snake falls short on the expectations and ends up discarded, its not so cute anymore.

I suppose it is human nature, though. We expect to be loved, if we are nurturing and caring. And the draw to "domesticate" the wild beast, to turn it loyal and loving, is a big one.

I feel its vital to teach people coming into the hobby to love selflessly. To love the species for what it is, for their beauty, for their awesomeness (heat sensors, etc), and for their ability to learn to trust that we don't present a threat. It should be enough, as it is a privilege in itself.

But that's just my opinion ;)

That thread you linked was actually a bit scary. OP obviously was not 100 percent there, in my opinion. They had a dream that the snake was a male? What? I understand spirituality, but how the heck would they know the snake's gender based on a dream? On top of that, the odd language and "humping" phrase made me think that this might be a minor who doesn't really understand snakes and their (lack of) affection for people. I do believe that my BP enjoys being handled, unlike my garters, since he always comes up to me when I approach and tries to climb onto my hand when I take out his dirty water. Of course, this could be a natural response to my heat. Anyway, some anthropomorphism is natural for humans, and well within the range of safe. We try to identify with animals by attributing their characteristics with human ones. It's only when we, or the animals, are in danger, that we need to rethink things.

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Originally Posted by zina10

Very good point. I have also seen someone tell others (newbies incl.) to not bother with all those hides. Because if you want the snake to be "social", you shouldn't have more then one hide. So you actually get to see it, too. You should give it toys, like little kitten balls, for "enrichment". And that things such as that will turn out a social, loving snake.
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I feel its vital to teach people coming into the hobby to love selflessly. To love the species for what it is, for their beauty, for their awesomeness (heat sensors, etc), and for their ability to learn to trust that we don't present a threat. It should be enough, as it is a privilege in itself.

But that's just my opinion ;)

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(Replying to the first part) Oh my god lol. I've seen things similar to that too. It's not one extreme but the other, and no extremes are good.

And I totally agree! If they are open to listening and following good husbandry, that is totally 100% great, and would end up a great keeper.

And then there are people like this, where they decide on their own to ignore basic ball python husbandry, thinking it is lessening the life of their highly intelligent, social, and loving animal (sarcasm)... Literally the extreme of anthropomorphizing a snake. Linking to this infamous post/story again for those interested http://kaijutegu.tumblr.com/post/139...ace-little-jor

Basically for the most part, I believe that anthropomorphizing a snake is more likely to be dangerous than not. And by that I mean those who truly, genuinely believe their ball python loves them and are social, loving animals lol. Not just pretending they love us and talking to them, which I'm sure we all do! :P

I did lots of research before getting a snake, care-wise. It was only later that I found out that snakes couldn't actually love you, but I had no problem with it. Maybe its just me, but whenever I think of a 'loving and caring' pet, the first thing that pops up is...something furry, not at all a reptile. Despite that, I still love Karma soo much, I love talking to her, watching her explore and cooing at her adorable little tongue flickering, but knowing that she only tolerates me..ehh..it doesn't bother me much.

And although my dogs and alpacas all have their funny personalities and quirks, I might just have to say that Karma is a favorite:P

That being said, I think a lot of people put too much thought into their snake's actions, which can be harmful in some situations. I've actually heard someone say 'My snake hates me because he sleeps all day and only comes out when I'm not around, at night.'

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Originally Posted by KingWheatley

I think some levels of it is ok. We are empathetic creatures, after all, so it's natural for us to do so.

However putting yourself/the snake in danger or making them believe they are in danger... that is a level of mistaken anthropomorphism that isn't ok.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...b3af7b0fe0.jpg

This guy, for example. If the article it was attached to is to be believed, he died because of one of his snakes. I don't doubt it.


Herp Derp

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I bet that cobra is a boy. See him screaming when another man kissed him. I do that a lot too.

I didn't read all the posts of that crazy person but if you are looking for love, a reptile is not it. They get to 'know' you but more in a way of 'that giant warm tree isn't going to eat me' or 'that giant tree drops rats and other tasty treats my direction every few weeks'. If you want love, buy a dog, cat, bird or a girlfriend. And if you need love so bad you are trying to project it onto a snake, then you need to find a 'lady of the night' but we'll keep this PG for the kids.

Also it's funny how its always women who are the freaky ones projecting this love onto animals. Us guys, throw em a rat and pat em on the head. kind of luck your buddy, throw him a beer(after you shake it a little for giggles) and hit him in the arm lol. And with this comment, I am waiting for burning flame from the ladies :taz: :D

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

I bet that cobra is a boy. See him screaming when another man kissed him. I do that a lot too.

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This only begs the question of why so many men are kissing you haha

We ladies are more touchy-feely, give a hug, than you manly men! Chuckle. My dogs have mannerisms that melt my heart. So do my snakes, so I love them. That means learning all about them.
I brought them into my house, so it's up to me to do right by them.
Putting a snake up against your mouth and lips is just asking for it. If that snake bit her, she'd be mocked and possibly disfigured, the snake could be severely hurt or killed, and our hobby would, once again, be cast in a negative light.
And all the snake did was either protect itself or think it was being fed in a new and interesting manner.
ijdk sometimes...

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Originally Posted by DLena

We ladies are more touchy-feely, give a hug, than you manly men! Chuckle. My dogs have mannerisms that melt my heart. So do my snakes, so I love them. That means learning all about them.
I brought them into my house, so it's up to me to do right by them.
Putting a snake up against your mouth and lips is just asking for it. If that snake bit her, she'd be mocked and possibly disfigured, the snake could be severely hurt or killed, and our hobby would, once again, be cast in a negative light.
And all the snake did was either protect itself or think it was being fed in a new and interesting manner.
ijdk sometimes...

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I agree about keeping ALL snakes away from faces ( everybody's face ) ..

I frequent a few snake forums and one guy told us about his shock when his pride and joy bit him in the eyeball !!!

I know he was worried about losing the sight or part sight in the eye . ... I'm not sure how it all turned out and the forum in question suddenly disappeared offline a few months ago due to a server issue .


I know he accepted that it was his fault , of course ..

Hmmmm....that was an odd read to say the least...different strokes for different folks, I guess. As long as the animal doesn't suffer I'm cool with it, from a distance. It's unfortunate though, that people are willing to bring ANY animal into their care without at the VERY least a BASIC knowledge of the animals needs, demeanor and mannerisms. These people seem to be the ones who have false expectations. Then when their snake doesn't get excited and play up against the glass when they see their human, or hides all day, or doesn't give kisses and play fetch, then the animal suffers. The owner will likely get bored and the husbandry suffers, then just simple maintenance becomes a "burden" because the human wasn't educated and brought the animal home anyway, and now since they aren't getting what they wanted or expected, the animal suffers. There are only a few options from there, and re-homing is likely the best chance the animal has to live a long, healthy life.

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Originally Posted by craigafrechette

Hmmmm....that was an odd read to say the least...different strokes for different folks, I guess. As long as the animal doesn't suffer I'm cool with it, from a distance.

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:rofl:
"Different strokes for different folks" : Interesting concept considering all the "Humping Snakes" :snake::O:D
Lmbo.

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Originally Posted by Mr Sully

:rofl:
"Different strokes for different folks" : Interesting concept considering all the "Humping Snakes" :snake::O:D
Lmbo.

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HAHAHAHAHHAHA!! Maybe I should've worded that differently considering the serpent libidos running rampant!!!! :rofl:
Well played Mr Sully!!

Sorry, I'm dirty, furry but even I get grossed out when people start associating actual animals with human sexuality. No. No your snake is not "humping' you to show affection. Not even your dog humps you to show affection, he does it because he's a pent up ball of hormonal frustration, just get the poor guy neutered already, jeez.

What some snakes do is some kind of "bucking". They stiffen up and push something away in a swift motion. Almost "jump" like.

Males will combat that way, but snakes will also do it when you pick them up and they want to be left alone.

I have visions of people stroking and massaging their poor snake while they, in desperation, try to "buck" the offender off, and the keeper gets all excited thinking the snake "likes it" and is humping them...

OMG, it is really difficult to write ANY of this without it sounding dirty in some way. I can see you all sitting there, snickering :rofl:


edited for the truly dirty minded: their snake, as in their PET snake, the animal kind.. ;)

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Originally Posted by zina10

What some snakes do is some kind of "bucking". They stiffen up and push something away in a swift motion. Almost "jump" like.

Males will combat that way, but snakes will also do it when you pick them up and they want to be left alone.

I have visions of people stroking and massaging their poor snake while they, in desperation, try to "buck" the offender off, and the keeper gets all excited thinking the snake "likes it" and is humping them...

OMG, it is really difficult to write ANY of this without it sounding dirty in some way. I can see you all sitting there, snickering :rofl:


edited for the truly dirty minded: their snake, as in their PET snake, the animal kind.. ;)

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LOL. I don't think there is a single thing that my mind can not turn into something it is not. Back when I used to feed live some of my females would "buck" the rat into the corner and pin it before taking a bite. I think they may have dominance issues.

I much prefer the term "bucking" over "humping". Esp. when it comes to snakes, LOL.

This whole thread (esp. the one in the link) is just to much, LOL.

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Originally Posted by zina10

I much prefer the term "bucking" over "humping". Esp. when it comes to snakes, LOL.

This whole thread (esp. the one in the link) is just to much, LOL.

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Hahahaha, I agree Zina. "bucking" sounds much better. My King will "buck" occasionally when I reach in to grab him. I just give him some time and space those days, but maybe I've been misreading his messages and that's him wanting to show his affection!! (wink wink!!) ;)

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Originally Posted by zina10

I much prefer the term "bucking" over "humping". Esp. when it comes to snakes, LOL.

This whole thread (esp. the one in the link) is just to much, LOL.

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Bucking... Hmmmm let me try that term and see if I still get slapped hahahahahaha


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr Sully

Bucking... Hmmmm let me try that term and see if I still get slapped hahahahahaha


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I think that it is likely you will get slapped either way, but sometimes, just sometimes it is worth getting slapped.

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Originally Posted by craigafrechette

Hahahaha, I agree Zina. "bucking" sounds much better. My King will "buck" occasionally when I reach in to grab him. I just give him some time and space those days, but maybe I've been misreading his messages and that's him wanting to show his affection!! (wink wink!!) ;)

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Well, only one way to find out !! Keep petting him, he'll either buck some more ..or he'll bite. HAHAHA

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Originally Posted by Mr Sully

Bucking... Hmmmm let me try that term and see if I still get slapped hahahahahaha


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

I think that it is likely you will get slapped either way, but sometimes, just sometimes it is worth getting slapped.

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Bad, bad, bad.... :rofl:

The moderators will be after us before long... LOL

wow, I don't even need to see the original thread, I can't believe I made it to the third page of this one, LOL! this is me asking for redemption: :please:

Oh my god I just saw this reply down at the bottom:

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"My reticulated python (hash) is a very loving snake. I open the top to his cage and he knows its me. He looks up at me and straightens out so I can pick him up. He loves it around my neck where I don't mind a squeeze here or there because I know I'm safe and he knows he's safe. They are gentle giants. My body for the heat is his favorite place to be. I've slept with him on my chest for a few hours and he never moved an once. They are truly amazing pets and very loving"

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Who wants to start a betting pool for when this guy ends up on the news killed by his snake (if he hasn't been already since the thread is from 2012)?

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Originally Posted by Lizardlicks

Oh my god I just saw this reply down at the bottom:



Who wants to start a betting pool for when this guy ends up on the news killed by his snake (if he hasn't been already since the thread is from 2012)?

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You didn't like the one who swore her Ball Python tries to crawl into her open mouth? hehehehe...
Why would you even open your mouth as your Ball Python approaches it. Dang, I mean, that's just weird.

Perhaps one was found dead with a Retic around his neck and another with the back half a Ball Python hanging out of their dead mouth.

I'll be honest, I only skimmed the original thread because it was full of so much hoohah trying to seriously read it gave me a head ache.

I needed this good laugh.. Thank you all hahahahahaha


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Quote from the posted thread:

ya think about it if a snake cant feel love or happyness wouldn't every single snake die of stress?
and if my snake a 3 year old red tail boa cant feel emotion then why does he sleep with me and cuddle my face wouldnt he make a run for it when i fall asleep?
if science can't prove it they say its wrong they are dumb

Why would it? I'm sure it doesn't run away from other future meals...

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Originally Posted by FlynnTheBP

Quote from the posted thread:

ya think about it if a snake cant feel love or happyness wouldn't every single snake die of stress?
and if my snake a 3 year old red tail boa cant feel emotion then why does he sleep with me and cuddle my face wouldnt he make a run for it when i fall asleep?
if science can't prove it they say its wrong they are dumb

Why would it? I'm sure it doesn't run away from other future meals...

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Maybe he is waiting for her mouth to fall open in her sleep ?

LOL

Sorry...

ps. How does a snake cuddle a face?? By constricting it? Bucking it? (I'm not gonna say the other word..) :rofl:

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Originally Posted by zina10

Maybe he is waiting for her mouth to fall open in her sleep ?

LOL

Sorry...

ps. How does a snake cuddle a face?? By constricting it? Bucking it? (I'm not gonna say the other word..) :rofl:

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^^^^^ lol hahahahhahaha


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so would that make it a form of auto asphyxiation?

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Originally Posted by Lizardlicks

Oh my god I just saw this reply down at the bottom:



Who wants to start a betting pool for when this guy ends up on the news killed by his snake (if he hasn't been already since the thread is from 2012)?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Slither Seeker

so would that make it a form of auto asphyxiation?

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ok, you might need to go to the time out chair. LOL :rofl:

I try to respect my snake when he smacks me.

I'm a good little lady and go make a sammich-

-wiggles eyebrows-

Anyways, when Cookie curls up somewhere and/or body smacks me, that tells me he's had enough and I put him up. I'd be afraid that if I continued to handle him that he'd resort to bites or hissing to convey his feelings of enoughness.


Herp Derp

Ok, this thread gave me a good chuckle before work yesterday, and now a good laugh to start my day today. Thanks all!!!!!

I hope everybody has a great day. And those getting hit by this snowstorm/blizzard/nor'easter that's hitting the New England and New York (Mr Sully I believe is in NY) area, please be safe and warm!

Thank you, thats very cool, Im toasty warm waiting to go out into it as needed, its a whiteout right now coming down hard. I do 4 parking lots so I'll be playing soon...you have a good day as well[emoji4]



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Hey, Mr. Sully! How 'bout a drive to Kenmore NY to do my driveway after you finish those parking lots? I know it's under there somewhere. Lol
I can pay you in FT rats! :mouse2:

Ahhhh, 72 degrees. The sun is out. Cool breeze of the ocean. Gators and burms in my backyard. I feel for you guys. Stay safe. That weather up north is awful right now.

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Originally Posted by zina10

Maybe he is waiting for her mouth to fall open in her sleep ?

LOL

Sorry...

ps. How does a snake cuddle a face?? By constricting it? Bucking it? (I'm not gonna say the other word..) :rofl:

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:8: You made me snort out a piece of apple. Thanks a lot.