Why you shouldn't get into reptiles

My cousin is a gun lover and someone tagged him in this video on facebook.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3htdn...NCXzNV&index=2

When I watched it is couldn't help but compare it to a reptile hobby. So here's mine:

It started with one lizard. I see him at the pet store for dirt cheap and think "this will be a cool, cheap, and easy to manage pet". So I buy him and get to doing the research. I spend over $100 in the first few days to try and meet my new pets husbandry needs.

2 weeks later I pass by the pet store and decide to walk in, just to look and compare with what i've got. Next thing I know, I'm at the front counter filling out the adoption paperwork for my lizards "new friend".
"It's an investment". After all, I could breed them and make my money back and then some!

Then I saw a a snake. Another investment! Speaking of investments, let's talk about starting a breeding colony of superworms and roaches for those lizards to cut down on cost of food. Now I'm keeping inverts. Oh and a couple tarantulas can't hurt. They're so cheap!

5 months and 6 reptiles later, I'm modifying my one bedroom apartment into a veritable zoo. I'm spending more on accessories and temperature/humidity controls than I did on the reptiles
Spending all my time on morphmarket looking at new cool morph combinations.

Getting new reptiles is like an addiction. A drug addiction would be cheaper than a reptile hobby. And with alot of reptiles at " crackhead" prices, it's difficult to pass up. Then i realize i need even more space and equipment to accommodate my collection.

Then there's the judgement. Every family gathering is like a subtle intervention:

"Your hoarding dangerous animals"
"What if they get out? Aren't you afraid they'll eat each other? Aren't you afraid they'll eat you??"
"They're all gross"
"Those are the Devils minions!"

These gatherings never happen at my house either, no one wants to come over.

I had a lady ask me about my interests. When I told her, she actually prayed for me, as if the keeping of reptiles has sealed my fate in hell.

Sure, reptiles are fascinating both aesthetically and scientifically. They make excellent, long-lived pets, and help with alot of anxiety and depression disorder like any therapy pet. But it's just another addiction.

Very interesting take on things ... I kinda agree about the addiction theory as well ... My life is basically ruled by routines and obsessions and one of my worst is the snake addiction .

I keep a wide range though , so rather than fixating on one type like Royals I have Boas , Burms , Retics , Kings , Corns and Garter snakes ( do have five Royals though !) . Currently on 20 with number 21 incoming on Monday ....

Now mine are all in lovely Viv setups as I simply can't abide RUBS as they seem so limiting - visually . So mine were all handpicked as display snakes as breeding them doesn't appeal at all .





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just like guns, drugs, food or anything, it's only an addiction if you let it become one. It's possible to collect reptiles and still have it as a hobby rather than an issue, as long as you're able to live a normal life.

I also have a one bedroom apartment, and my sister has already refereed to it as a zoo. I only have 2 cats, 2 axolotls, and 3 snakes (with one more snake on the way). Luckily my family is just a tad more understanding, probably at least a little because I was always the odd one. Some of them say eew when they see the snakes and don't want to be near them, but others are somewhat interested and actually ask to hold or at least touch one. My grandmother is especially funny in regards to my animals, because she's afraid of snakes but still wants to take a peek at them every time she comes over. And she refuses to call my axolotls amphibians, preferring to call them "fish with legs".

Funny, because it's all true. I'm sure I will re-read this many times. Reminds me of my last 6 months! Family and friends react the exact same way. Our office is now the "snake den". I spent a lot of time on morphmarket until I found my way into carpet pythons but now they are starting to carry them there too. Add in the kids who want to adopt every animal they see and it's a full family issue with my wife being the only voice of reason. Cheers!

Some people have an addictive personality, so it doesn't matter what your poison is you are just prone to it. Reptiles, guns, drugs, booze doesn't matter. The theory is you are addicted to the chemicals your brain makes when, let's say you bring a new animal home, happy chemicals yay. If you can't control it, this hobby might be extremely tough for you.

The judgement will vary from family to family and person to person. A lot of times it's just poor education about snakes. I have select few relatives that won't go in my reptile room due to their irrational fear that has been formed over time in our society. Not everyone is going to like them and that is expected. However I have had quite a few be that way before and now they hold them and find them fascinating.

My mom wouldn't let me bring my first snake into her house when I lived at home, had to keep it else where. Fast forward 10 years and now she's yelling at me for selling the ones she likes. Amazing what a little education and experience with them can do.

As for the religious folk.... Well I'm about as atheist as it gets and once you use religion to justify something, I have no problem pointing out how ridiculous I find the entire concept of religion. At least for me the conversation will not be about snakes for very long. I'm not going to say any more than that outside the quarantine room.

As for more reasons. The deeper you dive in the hobby the more tied down your are to where you keep them. Right now I'm stuck at home tending a generator since the power is out. The rodents need fans running and I don't want the reptile room getting too cold. Also the fish tank can't be out for too long (add fish as another hobby to not get into lol) so I'm getting up every few hours to fill up the gas tank.

normally I'd just throw the dogs some blankets and go do stuff, occasionally coming back to the house to let the dogs out and fire up the generator for an hour to warm the house back up. Continue on with my day afterwards. Not with reptiles and rodents. Just play on my phone a bunch I guess.

Vacations need extra planning, can't go away for work without extra planning.

Also I moved last year, after moving I plan on never moving again. Moving sucks for normal people, but adding a reptile room on top it, spent an extra day just moving them. Finding someone to take the rodents also. Location changes are not easy with a collection.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

Some people have an addictive personality, so it doesn't matter what your poison is you are just prone to it. Reptiles, guns, drugs, booze doesn't matter. The theory is you are addicted to the chemicals your brain makes when, let's say you bring a new animal home, happy chemicals yay. If you can't control it, this hobby might be extremely tough for you.

The judgement will vary from family to family and person to person. A lot of times it's just poor education about snakes. I have select few relatives that won't go in my reptile room due to their irrational fear that has been formed over time in our society. Not everyone is going to like them and that is expected. However I have had quite a few be that way before and now they hold them and find them fascinating.

My mom wouldn't let me bring my first snake into her house when I lived at home, had to keep it else where. Fast forward 10 years and now she's yelling at me for selling the ones she likes. Amazing what a little education and experience with them can do.

As for the religious folk.... Well I'm about as atheist as it gets and once you use religion to justify something, I have no problem pointing out how ridiculous I find the entire concept of religion. At least for me the conversation will not be about snakes for very long. I'm not going to say any more than that outside the quarantine room.

As for more reasons. The deeper you dive in the hobby the more tied down your are to where you keep them. Right now I'm stuck at home tending a generator since the power is out. The rodents need fans running and I don't want the reptile room getting too cold. Also the fish tank can't be out for too long (add fish as another hobby to not get into lol) so I'm getting up every few hours to fill up the gas tank.

normally I'd just throw the dogs some blankets and go do stuff, occasionally coming back to the house to let the dogs out and fire up the generator for an hour to warm the house back up. Continue on with my day afterwards. Not with reptiles and rodents. Just play on my phone a bunch I guess.

Vacations need extra planning, can't go away for work without extra planning.

Also I moved last year, after moving I plan on never moving again. Moving sucks for normal people, but adding a reptile room on top it, spent an extra day just moving them. Finding someone to take the rodents also. Location changes are not easy with a collection.

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Yea, that sucks OWAL. lol.

In some peoples case like mine you go into the hot phase of snakes. Then now that I'm actually keeping venomous, I'm finding that I prefer them versus non-venomous, however you can't hold them. They're definitely unique to watch though, and they have some amazing looking ones.

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

Very interesting take on things ... I kinda agree about the addiction theory as well ... My life is basically ruled by routines and obsessions and one of my worst is the snake addiction .

I keep a wide range though , so rather than fixating on one type like Royals I have Boas , Burms , Retics , Kings , Corns and Garter snakes ( do have five Royals though !) . Currently on 20 with number 21 incoming on Monday ....

Now mine are all in lovely Viv setups as I simply can't abide RUBS as they seem so limiting - visually . So mine were all handpicked as display snakes as breeding them doesn't appeal at all .

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Snakes are my biggest obsession, with balls being my favorite. Haven't had much experience with larger snakes yet though. I feel like the routine is what keeps me sane sometimes. Life is hectic and crazy and my reptile routine gives me an anchor to hold on to and helps me focus. Really helps reduce anxiety.

As for the rubs, I use clear sterilite so that I have perfect vision of my babies. Not as clear as acrylic or glass but it works for me :)

These are some really good points, guys. It's great that we are discussing the "potato chip problem" with reptiles. More often than not, we want more! And it can easily turn into an addiction, as was mentioned, just like anything else can. It really comes down to discipline. Making sure thathat everything you already have is doing perfect and making improvements there first. There is an excellent post somewhere on here about this and if I get around to finding it after work today I'll post it here.

I did want to clarify that this thread was meant to be amusing rather than serious. But it's anot important subject nonetheless! :)

I agree with so much of what's been said. I went into a Petsmart in February 2013 looking for a blue lizard that my then almost 4 y/o son wanted for a first pet. I / we saw a little California Kingsnake in the reptile department and a whole new world opened up :). Four years and eight snakes later I think I've finally found my happy place in this hobby. It's tough sometimes because I'd love to have many many more critters. Snakes, lizards, birds of prey, dogs, and big cats included. BUT I know and respect my limits. What's the old saying about all things in moderation? My current collection keeps me challenged, engaged, and entertained but I don't want my passion to become more work than play.
We all keep reptiles for a myriad of reasons but the one tie that binds us all to these fascinating creatures, and by extension to each other, is love. :cool:

When I was younger I used to hoard reptiles and keep everything I could get my hands on. Not so much these days. Now that I know a lot more about proper husbandry and the cost that comes with it, I'm able to restrain myself. On one side of the coin, I kept snakes for years before I had the internet to tell me I was doing it all wrong. On the other side, I cringe at when I think about some of the things I got away with back in the day. I still cant believe I didn't cook any snakes with no thermostats. I still have some stuff on my list but for the most part I'm very happy with the few that I have.

Like dumdum said, any hobby or interest can become an addiction if you let it become one. And I guess part of it is personality? Some people are more prone to addiction (the mental state) than others.

I don't think everybody who gets into reptiles, bonsai, dogs, horses, aquariums, etc. end up thinking they are ruining their life over an "addiction". It should be fun! Animals are fun, it's an interest, maybe an obsessive interest. But if you feel like it is taking over your personal life or you can't control your finances, that is a whole different problem. It's not reptile-specific AT ALL.

On a related note, part of the "ball pythons are like potato chips" specifically though comes with being able to keep them in a rack. You buy a 10 tub rack, and you want to fill it up. It's easy to clean, efficient, and the snakes live. But if another keeper has a different perspective on keeping reptiles and wants to keep each snake in 2x4 feet enclosures with bioactive substrate and plants, it would obviously significantly cut back on the "potato chip" ability of it. Just as an example.

Maybe we could also touch on the occasional feeling of guilt some get for keeping them enclosed ????


I am a self confessed snake addict , currently with 20 and the 21st one coming on Monday ...... but every so often , every few months I suddenly feel a tad guilty ...

Should I start a separate thread ??

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

Maybe we could also touch on the occasional feeling of guilt some get for keeping them enclosed ????


I am a self confessed snake addict , currently with 20 and the 21st one coming on Monday ...... but every so often , every few months I suddenly feel a tad guilty ...

Should I start a separate thread ??

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yeah probably, you've mentioned this in several different threads now...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lizardlicks

yeah probably, you've mentioned this in several different threads now...

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If by several you mean this one and the other one then yes .

I plead guilty .

:)

Never know wether to fit these in an existing thread or start a new one ( which sometimes get slaughtered for failing to use the search option properly .)


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I try to keep a focus that keeps things simple. No lizards that require UV, or 110F hotspots. Nothing that requires I raise superworms, crickets, roaches, or fruit flies. If I had started with a beardie, or something, than branching out into other lizards with similar food and care requirements would make more sense.

This is the same reason that I don't keep tropical fish that require heaters. If I ever do more than goldfish, it will likely be North American native fish - bluegills, shiners, and the smaller more passive sunfish. (This is assuming they can just get a purchased pellet - anything that needs brine shrimp, white worms, tubiflex, etc. will be off the list.) An Oscar is an impressive fish, I love how endearingly ugly they are, but I'm not heating a two hundred gallon tank!

Then, there are birds. An African Grey would probably be my dream bird. However, I don't need to own sensitive, high strung, HIGHLY intelligent animal that will almost certainly outlive me by decades...an animal that needs extensive out of cage time, but also chews walls and furniture. Two budgies are going to have to suffice as the parrot stand-in choice. Canaries are fun and easy, finches are fun and easy, pigeons are fun and easy. Would love a corvid, but again, they come with too many headaches. It can work if that is about the only pet one has, but I'm long past that.

Find a focus, and you can get away with larger numbers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

Maybe we could also touch on the occasional feeling of guilt some get for keeping them enclosed ????


I am a self confessed snake addict , currently with 20 and the 21st one coming on Monday ...... but every so often , every few months I suddenly feel a tad guilty ...

Should I start a separate thread ??

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I don't feel guilty about keeping animals because I know they are well taken care of.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cletus

I don't feel guilty about keeping animals because I know they are well taken care of.

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Well the same here , as I've said but that's not the same as being free ..


Yes I know it's an odd feeling to be having - even if it's only 3 or so times a year .


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

Well the same here , as I've said but that's not the same as being free ..


Yes I know it's an odd feeling to be having - even if it's only 3 or so times a year .


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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I hear you. I guess the only time I ever felt guilty was with a hognose I caught and kept when I was a teenager. I never could get it to eat and it finally died. I should have released it much sooner and not let it get to that point. I had released animals before that I couldn't get to eat but I didn't want to let the hognose go because it was the coolest thing I'd caught at that point. This was early 80s and I didn't have the resources available that are out there now.

I start and end every day taking care of my animals and I wouldn't have it any other way. They help me start every(ok, most) days upbeat and happy. They're also there to help me unwind after any particularly long days. If you think your reptile keeping is a problem, you're probably right but remember you aren't me, he, or she - one can only speak for oneself in this regard.

disclaimer: I am in no way, shape or form insulted or offended by the use of the word "addiction" or any of the content in this thread. Nor am I trying to say that reptile/snake-keeping (I will stick to this specific example since it was how the thread began) shouldn't be referred to as an "addiction". I am simply sharing my opinion and story...

As a drug addict and alcoholic who has been clean and sober for a little over 50 months now, I find myself questioning whether snakes/reptiles can indeed be an addiction. Now, please understand I'm not downplaying the "addiction" many of us in the hobby share, as I definitely see how an addictive personality can affect something like reptile keeping. So, like I said, this is just my opinion...

Merriam-Webster definition of addiction:
1): the quality or state of being addicted
2): compulsive need for and use of a habit-forming substance characterized by tolerance and by well-defined physiological symptoms upon withdrawl; broadly : persistent compulsive use of a substance known by the user to be harmful

Now, this is where I begin to question whether or not I am "addicted" to keeping snakes (as well as my other animals). I have been an animal lover my whole life, but due to the restraints of my parents I was only able to keep one or two pets at a time. Definitely a good thing, as I now know, because I wasn't ready to responsibly care for any more than that at that time. Fast fwd a few years and I ended up getting a few fish tanks, a BP and a cat after moving into my first place of my own (and moving a few times). However, I was beginning to neglect these animals due to a rapidly-increasing desire to spend every waking hour drinking and using drugs. Desire was gradually replaced by need and I made a conscience decision to re-home my animals since I was clearly in no shape to care for myself, let alone these innocent animals. At this point, I was drinking and using daily, I knew I had a problem and I made peace with the fact that I would live and die as an alcoholic and a drug addict. My life would be short and tragic and I was ok with that. My first thought every morning was about booze/drugs. Did I have enough to start the day? Could I go to work with only what I had or did I need to find more to get through the work day? I managed to go to work most days, because I needed a means to support my addiction. My last thought every night (the nights I remember anyway) revolved around what I had left to start the next day. I knew I would end up dead or in jail, I was just begging for relief and didn't care which came first. I lived this way for around 15 years. I ended up over-dosing, was legally dead for an estimated 6 minutes, but still wasn't ready to stop, that took another few months of pure hell.... anyway, decided to get help and here I am over 4 years later, clean and sober.
Now, can I be "addicted" to keeping animals? I'm not sure. Many characteristics are the same. My day begins and ends with my animals, I always want more animals. I am able to responsibly keep the animals I have and know my limitations. Would I "withdraw" without my animals? No, I would simply miss the crap out of them. Would I willingly end up dead or in jail for my animals? No. Does my life revolve around my animals? No, but I choose to keep them and make them a part of my daily routine. My brother had to BEG me to stay clean and sober long enough to be his best man at his wedding, I somehow managed to keep it together long enough to make the toast and not embarrass myself, my brother, his new wife and our families and friends. I now baby-sit my niece every week and am thankful and grateful beyond words for the time I spend with her. My brother trusts me now, as opposed to before. He and I have had many conversations about the fact that I am able to be a part of my nieces life, I would NEVER had been allowed to be around her if I was still drinking and using, never mind be trusted to babysit. My animal-keeping has never inhibited me from spending time with my family. My brother's wife is pregnant again and I am pretty sure he will ask me to be the Godfather of my new niece or nephew, and something tells me he won't ask me contingent upon my reptile/animal "addiction" being in check, hahahaha!!
So, now that I've rambled, I guess I will conclude with this: My animals are a HUGE part of my life and I enjoy every moment with them. I even enjoy cleaning up after them (yup, even cleaning all the poop) because it's a part of providing a loving, happy, healthy home for these innocent animals who rely on me. I look forward to spending time with them before and after work. But am I addicted? Probably not. Is becoming "addicted" to keeping animals possible? Not in my personal opinion. I go to my animals when I'm sad, angry, had a bad day, etc.. almost the way I turned to booze and drugs, but the difference is simple to me: I find REAL joy, REAL happiness, REAL peace and serenity through my animals, where I used booze and drugs to mask what I was REALLY feeling. I enjoy spending time in my animals little world, but am not using them to escape my own little world. I am choosing to enjoy this time with them, choosing to share my little world with them, choosing to make them a part of my life, as opposed to my real addictions, where the choice became a NEED.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by craigafrechette

disclaimer: I am in no way, shape or form insulted or offended by the use of the word "addiction" or any of the content in this thread. Nor am I trying to say that reptile/snake-keeping (I will stick to this specific example since it was how the thread began) shouldn't be referred to as an "addiction". I am simply sharing my opinion and story...

As a drug addict and alcoholic who has been clean and sober for a little over 50 months now, I find myself questioning whether snakes/reptiles can indeed be an addiction. Now, please understand I'm not downplaying the "addiction" many of us in the hobby share, as I definitely see how an addictive personality can affect something like reptile keeping. So, like I said, this is just my opinion...

Merriam-Webster definition of addiction:
1): the quality or state of being addicted
2): compulsive need for and use of a habit-forming substance characterized by tolerance and by well-defined physiological symptoms upon withdrawl; broadly : persistent compulsive use of a substance known by the user to be harmful

Now, this is where I begin to question whether or not I am "addicted" to keeping snakes (as well as my other animals). I have been an animal lover my whole life, but due to the restraints of my parents I was only able to keep one or two pets at a time. Definitely a good thing, as I now know, because I wasn't ready to responsibly care for any more than that at that time. Fast fwd a few years and I ended up getting a few fish tanks, a BP and a cat after moving into my first place of my own (and moving a few times). However, I was beginning to neglect these animals due to a rapidly-increasing desire to spend every waking hour drinking and using drugs. Desire was gradually replaced by need and I made a conscience decision to re-home my animals since I was clearly in no shape to care for myself, let alone these innocent animals. At this point, I was drinking and using daily, I knew I had a problem and I made peace with the fact that I would live and die as an alcoholic and a drug addict. My life would be short and tragic and I was ok with that. My first thought every morning was about booze/drugs. Did I have enough to start the day? Could I go to work with only what I had or did I need to find more to get through the work day? I managed to go to work most days, because I needed a means to support my addiction. My last thought every night (the nights I remember anyway) revolved around what I had left to start the next day. I knew I would end up dead or in jail, I was just begging for relief and didn't care which came first. I lived this way for around 15 years. I ended up over-dosing, was legally dead for an estimated 6 minutes, but still wasn't ready to stop, that took another few months of pure hell.... anyway, decided to get help and here I am over 4 years later, clean and sober.
Now, can I be "addicted" to keeping animals? I'm not sure. Many characteristics are the same. My day begins and ends with my animals, I always want more animals. I am able to responsibly keep the animals I have and know my limitations. Would I "withdraw" without my animals? No, I would simply miss the crap out of them. Would I willingly end up dead or in jail for my animals? No. Does my life revolve around my animals? No, but I choose to keep them and make them a part of my daily routine. My brother had to BEG me to stay clean and sober long enough to be his best man at his wedding, I somehow managed to keep it together long enough to make the toast and not embarrass myself, my brother, his new wife and our families and friends. I now baby-sit my niece every week and am thankful and grateful beyond words for the time I spend with her. My brother trusts me now, as opposed to before. He and I have had many conversations about the fact that I am able to be a part of my nieces life, I would NEVER had been allowed to be around her if I was still drinking and using, never mind be trusted to babysit. My animal-keeping has never inhibited me from spending time with my family. My brother's wife is pregnant again and I am pretty sure he will ask me to be the Godfather of my new niece or nephew, and something tells me he won't ask me contingent upon my reptile/animal "addiction" being in check, hahahaha!!
So, now that I've rambled, I guess I will conclude with this: My animals are a HUGE part of my life and I enjoy every moment with them. I even enjoy cleaning up after them (yup, even cleaning all the poop) because it's a part of providing a loving, happy, healthy home for these innocent animals who rely on me. I look forward to spending time with them before and after work. But am I addicted? Probably not. Is becoming "addicted" to keeping animals possible? Not in my personal opinion. I go to my animals when I'm sad, angry, had a bad day, etc.. almost the way I turned to booze and drugs, but the difference is simple to me: I find REAL joy, REAL happiness, REAL peace and serenity through my animals, where I used booze and drugs to mask what I was REALLY feeling. I enjoy spending time in my animals little world, but am not using them to escape my own little world. I am choosing to enjoy this time with them, choosing to share my little world with them, choosing to make them a part of my life, as opposed to my real addictions, where the choice became a NEED.

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Wow I'm simply speachless .
Apart from being able to say confidently that you've just written the best post I've ever seen and ever will see as well .

Oh and congratulations on staying healthy . Long may it continue . Your story deserves it's own thread where you can keep us all updated on you and your creatures !

Speaking of feeling guilty, I don't feel guilty at all keeping my snakes in tubs. It seems to replicate their natural environment.

Now rats on the other hand are a different story. I call my rat rack 'Cell Block D'. It's like running a little prison. Any fighting and you get put in solitary confinement in your own cell (tub). And when your number is up it's off to the gas chamber. Everyone gets life without parole, even the rats call me 'Warden' LOLOL.

I may get one other snake one day a long time away, but as another stated, a lot has to do with the enclosure. I don't keep, or plan to keep mine in tubs. I think that it's interesting to see the clutches and everything, I love some of the other morphs, but I'm really content with just one. I enjoy looking at the photos that the forum provides. I enjoy the husbandry aspect of snake-keeping, and even if he's hidden away I can observe him. His presence has benefitted my mentality a lot, actually. Maybe I just have a high tolerance threshold. :P