How Long To Let New Arrivals Settle In Before Handling?/Tips For Taming?

Hey guys,
Last Friday a pair of 2016 Sumatrans (chrome heads) and a 2015 Matrix Het T+ Albino female were delivered. Other than pulling their tubs out to check temps and humidity (both of which seem to be perfect) I have pretty much left them alone to get settled in. According to the breeder, their feeding day has been on Mondays, so I attempted to feed them yesterday. I got the female Sumatran to eat, but the other two wouldn't eat. So, I guess i'll just wait and try again next Monday... Anyway, just from the little bit of interaction I have had with these three so far, I can say they are pretty much vicious as Hell! lol They will basically throw their whole bodies up out of the tub and try to bite my face off! :O I knew what I was getting into with these species, so this is no surprise. I knew they would take some work to get tamed down...

So, my question is, how long would you guys recommend that I let them get settled in before I start trying to handle them? And, other than hook training and starting out with gloves, does anyone know of any other methods for getting these species to tame down? The breeder said that they have had very little handling...

~ Aedryan

My experience with short tails is limited to the two Borneo's and one Sumatran that I have, the oldest of which was hatched last May. In the case of all three, I have waited a week to a week and a half after delivery, regardless of date last fed, and am three for three in getting them to eat on the first try. My most recent acquisition ate f/t even though he had been eating pre-killed. So I would give it a few more days before trying again.
As far as getting them tamed, I have no advice. My first Borneo and my Sumatran have been picture perfect so far. Neither has shown any aggression. I did wait a couple of weeks after delivery before even attempting to handle either, and they both seemed to settle in beautifully. I did follow advice that i've read: keep early handling sessions short and sweet, and end on a good note, with the snake calm.
My new Borneo, on the other hand, is nervous and defensive, and I have already had a bad experience with him when he defecated less than one week in, and got very unhappy when moved him for cleaning. I had already been in his tub the day before to change a soaking paper towel, and apparently all that was too much. He struck at me several times but I persisted in holding him until he transitioned to flight mode. I don't know if this was the correct way to handle the situation, but I was unprepared for it. That was nine days ago, and he has holed up in his water bowl since then. I did put a smaller bowl of water in there for him several days ago, so I wouldn't have to mess with him to get him fresh water, and went back in there last night to freshen it up. He became wary, assuming a defensive posture, but did not strike. Today, he is out of his water bowl for the first time since the mishap, which I take to be a good sign.

Oops, double post.

Thanks for sharing your experience, J. Much appreciated! How long have you had your three?

How have you set them up ? Can you make a picture ? Do you know how the breeder had them set up?
How are your temps ? Wrong temps can make them testy...

If you got them on Friday, it might have been to early to try feeding on Monday. Esp. if they don't feel safe yet.

Are they in a Rack? Tub? Cage? Size?
How is the Heat in the different areas?
Hides?
Substrate?

I don't bother with handling until they are eating regularly and honestly haven't found handling to make a difference any more than simple time would. My first blood was very unhappy about being held as a baby and I did short times out with me a couple times a week, my 2015 bstp boy was jumpy as can be, lots of striking and very little handling as he isn't a good eater, even so he's a lot calmer nowadays. Most are all huff and bluff although if you push them they will snap at you but you would barely feel it at this age, glove up if you feel the need but I just grab them out quickly with confidence. Short tails tend to be kind of nervous and nippy when they are young, move with confidence and not too fast, they prefer to hang out on your lap or on the floor. Not held in the air. Good luck!

Thanks you guys!

@GoingPostal - So, you think just leaving them alone for a good long while and not handling them at all tames them down just as well as handling them for a couple of minutes a few times a day?

@zina10 - I have them in a melamine 10 - 28 qt. rack. Yes, I know that is probably too big for the 2016's and could be partially to blame for their defensiveness. However, the tubs aren't just wide open and empty. I am using newspaper for substrate and balled up newspaper pretty much consumes the tub to take up some space. They have a hide on the warm side and a big bowl of water that is more than big enough for them to soak in on the cool side. Each rack is heated with 6" THG, which runs to a Vivarium Electronics VE-100 thermostat. Temps are running between 85 and 87 degrees on the warm side and 76 - 78 on the cool side. Humidity is running about 80%...

Well, husbandry sounds great ! So does the setup.

I would def. NOT handle "a few times the day". I think what makes them the most nervous is the initial "picking up". Which probably makes YOU the most nervous, too ;) You don't want to put them through this stress a few times the day.
Follow Going Postals advice. Don't drag it out. Let them know you are "there", like a touch with the hook, and then just gently but deliberately pick one up and immediately support the body. If they "flip flop" a bit or musk or nip, try to ignore that and find a "quiet" space and just sit with them. No walking around, or stuff moving around them. No putting anything near their face and keep YOUR face away. Just sit and let them learn nothing bad happens. Then return them to the tub gently. Once you move they probably tense up again, but keep moving deliberate but slow, no jerking or jumping or dropping them into their tub quickly.

Its not how often you handle, but HOW you handle. You want good experiences. If you overwhelm them, it will not be a good experience. Time and patience. Around 10 to 15 minutes per handling, not every day. Not the day before feeding or 2 days after.

If gloves make you feel better, try to find those that are used for working around roses and such. They are soft but strong leather. You will have a better "feel" of the snake, unlike with thick or stiff gloves. Some Rose Gloves have panels of stiffer leather up the forearm, some are for hands only.

You are there to observe them, and you will have to "read" your snake. They are all a bit different. You can judge best to see what works.

"Flooding" and overwhelming them does not work. Gentle, patience and building trust does. Some need more time, some less. Just stop the handling before they might get to agitated, always try to end on a good note.

All excellent advice, Zina. Thanks! :) I'm aching to get my hands on them again! The little Sumatrans especially are so cute that I just wanna kiss their faces off! lol When they arrived I was able to ease them right out of their bags into my hand without too much incident. Just as you said, when I stood up to put them in their tubs they got nervous and tensed up and started flopping around was all. The strikes have happened with all three since, while just looking at them with my face a little too close to their tubs... lol I think they will be fine once they're settled in and realize nothing is going to eat them, though.

I was introduced to a local Sumatran breeder by a friend at a reptile show this past Sunday, who produces the blackest of the black Sumatrans. I was happy to be able to spend a good hour just sitting and talking with him over lunch. He claims that his offspring are always docile as can be from day one. He will have clutches available within the next couple of months and I will definitely be picking up another pair from him!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aedryan Methyus

All excellent advice, Zina. Thanks! :) I'm aching to get my hands on them again! The little Sumatrans especially are so cute that I just wanna kiss their faces off! lol When they arrived I was able to ease them right out of their bags into my hand without too much incident. Just as you said, when I stood up to put them in their tubs they got nervous and tensed up and started flopping around was all. The strikes have happened with all three since, while just looking at them with my face a little too close to their tubs... lol I think they will be fine once they're settled in and realize nothing is going to eat them, though.

I was introduced to a local Sumatran breeder by a friend at a reptile show this past Sunday, who produces the blackest of the black Sumatrans. I was happy to be able to spend a good hour just sitting and talking with him over lunch. He claims that his offspring are always docile as can be from day one. He will have clutches available within the next couple of months and I will definitely be picking up another pair from him!

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All that actually sounds very promising. That's how mine acted as well. He only got nervous with a lot of moving around or if something came close to his head. He watched my face closely !! Just think, we are a HUGE heat source, and our heads/faces are the hottest part. It hast to be scary to them when this giant animal swoops towards them, mouth first. LOL

I find they learn quickly, though. Which is why I find it important to keep it positive, short and sweet. I only handled mine 3 times and can already tell a difference. The first time his little head was tightly pressed to his neck, face up and eyes "big". He felt tense. Now he "watches" my face, but he is not as tight and ready to strike. I am careful not to swoop my face toward him, I also don't put the phone in his face for pictures (thats the only thing he struck at, the day he arrived, and no wonder..) I can move a lot more, my head and hands, while I sit with him. He will be aware, but not so nervous. Only when I get up or walk around will he tense a bit. But no flopping or flipping out.

You will learn how much they can "take" and how far you can go. And then stop before it gets to much.

Even if you get a "puppydog" tame one in the future, you really shouldn't do much more in the beginning either. While they might act tame and are sweet, they could still stress and not feed well. Its not such a bad thing to start with a nervous/defensive baby. It will teach us patience and to "read" a snake well. Its a challenge and a learning experience. And when they are a relaxed chill snake, we will feel a sense of accomplishment :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zina10

It hast to be scary to them when this giant animal swoops towards them, mouth first. LOL

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Fee Fi Fo Fum! lol

Yes I really think leaving them alone for the most part they still calm hugely with age. I do peek in on them daily and often do a little poke or stroke down the sides so they know I will be in the cage and occasionally touching them, not just opening to feed/change water. I'm lucky my newest has been really calm from the start, he's struck at me once while getting out of the cage and nothing since. I find getting them out is the worst part so best to be quick about it, don't give them time to start thrashing the rear end around lol.

Hey guys,
I thought maybe you guys would be interested in a little update on my progress with these three. I decided that today was going to be the day they came out of their tubs (on day 7 after their delivery). I am happy to say that there was not any incident whatsoever with the little Sumatran pair. I pulled their tubs out and sat it on the floor and sat down on the floor with them. I gave them a little rub with my hook and picked them right up. I held each of them for maybe 2 minutes and let them gently slither out of my hands back into their tubs and slid them back into the rack. Neither of them tensed up or struck at me or anything. :) The Matrix girl, unfortunately, was a different story... I tried the same procedure with her and she wasn't having it. Since she is a lot bigger I actually slid my hook up underneath of her to give her an initial lift and as soon as I reached in to pick her up she threw her whole body up out of the tub and onto the floor and started to take flight. I used the hook to gently get her back into her tub, after which , she struck at me a couple more times. So, I just put her tub back in the rack. I have to admit, that one is a bit intimidating, because she has a little size to her. All 3 of these guys pack sooo much power into their strikes, just as the species is known for! I'm pretty sure that getting hit by the Matrix at her size wouldn't feel very good...

So, anyway... I'm definitely happy with how things went with the Sumatrans. I'm going to have to give the Matrix some more time, I guess. It's a shame that the breeder apparently had not ever spent any time working with her...

Great job on the two younger ones ! off to a good start ;)

Has the Matrix ever eaten for you yet ? If not, I'd leave her alone until she eats. Just something about a full belly that seems to make them a bit more settled.

Did the breeder mention that she was a bit..twitchy ? While most calm down with age and are defensive as babies, not many actually fling themselves around at that age anymore. You can still tame her down, some are just more high strung then others and she may be.

Just leave her be completely until she eats. After that, open the tub a couple to three times the day. Just to open it and close it. Eventually open the tub and touch her. Ignore any hissy fits, just stroke her and close the tub. After she is used to that happening, and also having eaten at least a couple of times, you can pick her up and if she is good with that, set her right back down. After a few of those, pick her up and sit with her in the lap quietly for a while. And then build up on that..

Hi Zina,
The Matrix hasn't eaten for me yet and only one of the Sumatrans has so far. I'm going to try again on Monday. I haven't actually ever spoken with the breeder directly. These guys came from a brick and mortar pet shop in Wisconsin and the breeder either owns the place or just works there. All of the questions I had were relayed back and forth through employees. I had asked if these snakes have had much handling and the girl simply said, "no" (as she sorta laughed)... lol

But, yes... I'm going to leave her alone until maybe a couple of days after she has eaten and try it again...

It is refreshing to hear some other perspectives here.

Most sources on the internet say the only way to tame these guys down is with regular handling. If the end goal is to gain trust then I would imagine, like Zina10 said, uneventful interactions of any kind will move you in the right direction. My new Borneo is a very nervous guy, and I just don't see handling will do him any good at this point.

AM - I have had my first Borneo since Sept (hatched in May), my Sumatran since Jan (hatched in Aug) and I got my second Borneo not quite three weeks ago. He is 8 months old.

Everybody else in touching base with the husbandry and stuff so I'll say I generally at least give 3 days to calm down, more so depending on the species and if it is to bother them it's normally to feed. With bloods, I would say wait about a week.

I don't have a ton of experience with bloods but some of the ones that I've dealt with were cage aggressive. What we would do is use a snake hook touch them and some would be a bit more calm. Others they had to be out of the cage. Then one or two just stayed bitey. Hope this helps.

In case this might help new Blood owners in the future I thought I would post an update. Since I originally posted this my 2016 Sumatrans have become little sweethearts and haven't struck once for a couple of weeks now and I sit with each of them for around 30 minutes a day. They seemed to have sorta just changed their demeanor with time. My recommendation for new arrivals is to just leave them completely along for their first 2 weeks other than cleaning and feeding. I also recommend skipping their first feeding for a week. That is basically the same thing most people recommend, but I can attest that it seems to help settle them down. After they settled in for a couple of weeks, I began hook training. I just rub them with my hook to let them know i'm there then I slide the hook under them, so I can get my hand under them and pick them up. I just sit in a chair in my snake room and let them crawl around and explore.

My 2015 has taken a lot more patience, since she was older and was basically never handled. I am very happy to say that I finally had my first successful handling with her last night, though! :) For the past couple of weeks I have been just rubbing her with my hook while she's in her tub for a few minutes a day. I would also pick her up with the hook and set her right back down a couple of times. She would basically sit completely still (and tensed up) while I was rubbing her with the hook and the moment she saw a hand coming towards her she would start throwing her whole body around and taking flight. Last night I was determined that I was going to actually hold her, so instead of sitting there stroking her with the hook for a few minutes, I just stroked her quickly, slid the hook right under her and picked her up and there was no thrashing around whatsoever. I just held her in my hands over her tub and at first she kept trying to crawl out of my hands into her hide in the tub. She finally gave up and sat still in my hands for a couple of minutes until I put her back in the tub. I think where I was going wrong with her was spending too much time hesitating and rubbing her with the hook instead of simply picking her up. I'm pretty sure she probably knew she had me intimidated and was putting on a big show. Last night, it probably surprised her. She was probably thinking, "What the...??? He actually did it???" LOL! This was just a baby step with this girl, but it's a step in the right direction. I'm going to continue doing this same thing daily for a few days then i'm going to start sitting with her in my lap.

I will post updates as progress is made...

That is what I did with Sandor, once you pick them up they kind of "give up" for the moment, LOL.

Just spend a few days just sitting still. Be prepared that as soon as you move or get up, or someone walks by, she might have a mini anxiety attack again. Just stay calm and move calm but DELIBERATE. Eventually you can start moving around more.

:)

We need some snakey poo Xanax! lol

Omg..yes! Hahaha...[emoji12]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I just wanted to share an update on my 2015 Matrix Het T+ girl's taming progress. Let's just say, I feel silly now for ever referring to her as "schizo"! She has now been with me for exactly 2 months and her demeanor is like night and day, just like my little Sumatrans. Since my last post about her there have been several milestones...

This is essentially how my handling versus her demeanor has progressed over the past 2 months:

Month 1:

For the whole first month or so, I would caress her body with my snake hook once or twice a day for short periods. She would sit completely tensed up and motionless the whole time, not even flickering her tongue. Sometimes I would get the hook underneath of her and just pick her up slightly (she would remain stiff as a board) then I would just sit her back down and continue caressing her with the hook. Any time she would see my hand heading into her tub she would immediately start thrashing around and one time she literally threw her entire body clear up out of her tub and onto the floor (her tub was sitting on the floor).

Month 2:

Throughout the first half of the 2nd month I continued caressing her body with the hook and picking her up slightly with the hook and sitting her down once or twice a day for short periods. She would still remain completely tensed up and motionless, not even flickering her tongue. Sometime around the middle of the 2nd month I started only caressing her with the hook for a couple of seconds, just to let her know I was there then without hesitation I would slide the hook under her and lift her up and right onto my hands (with leather gloves on). By this point she had stopped the thrashing and throwing herself around when she saw a hand heading towards her and I would simply hold her in my hands over her tub for maybe 5 minutes in my outstretched hands during each handling session. For the most part, she would remain tensed up (but, so was I! lol), but she could also be a little flighty. She would sorta keep trying to crawl backwards out of my hands then she would settle down, but remain tensed up with her head in the classic defensive "S" posture. She seemed like she didn't want to take her eyes off of me. As I held her, she would always sorta turn the front half of her body so it was facing me and hold the defensive "S" posture. I did about 3 handling sessions just like that and they all went about the same way...

Now (at the end of the 2nd month):

After the 3 handling sessions described above, I would start out as usual by caressing her with the hook for only a couple of seconds then slide it under her and immediately pick her up with my now bare hands. I am now able to sit in the chair and hang out with her in my snake room and for the most part, she is just as chill and calm as can be. Once in awhile, if I move a hand to fast or something she might jump a little. But, otherwise, she is perfectly fine with me holding her and stroking her with my hand and seems like she would be perfectly content with me holding her for as long as I want. She does seem to like to sorta slide her head under my arm sometimes. The funny part of all this is, at no time has she ever actually struck or tried to bite! So, as far as i'm concerned, most of her previous behavior was just a big show... lol

Those of you more experienced Blood Python keepers are probably laughing at how slow, gradual and cautious this whole process went and would have probably accomplished all of this within the first week or so... lol But, considering she was my first Blood and she was a little older with some size to her and never had any previous handling before I got her and how she was acting, I couldn't be happier with how far I came with her. I am so happy to actually be able to hang out with her and enjoy her now! Photos of this pretty girl coming soon! :)

Perhaps this might help brand new Blood Python owners with "schizo" acting snakes in the future.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aedryan Methyus

I just wanted to share an update on my 2015 Matrix Het T+ girl's taming progress. Let's just say, I feel silly now for ever referring to her as "schizo"! She has now been with me for exactly 2 months and her demeanor is like night and day, just like my little Sumatrans. Since my last post about her there have been several milestones...

This is essentially how my handling versus her demeanor has progressed over the past 2 months:

Month 1:

For the whole first month or so, I would caress her body with my snake hook once or twice a day for short periods. She would sit completely tensed up and motionless the whole time, not even flickering her tongue. Sometimes I would get the hook underneath of her and just pick her up slightly (she would remain stiff as a board) then I would just sit her back down and continue caressing her with the hook. Any time she would see my hand heading into her tub she would immediately start thrashing around and one time she literally threw her entire body clear up out of her tub and onto the floor (her tub was sitting on the floor).

Month 2:

Throughout the first half of the 2nd month I continued caressing her body with the hook and picking her up slightly with the hook and sitting her down once or twice a day for short periods. She would still remain completely tensed up and motionless, not even flickering her tongue. Sometime around the middle of the 2nd month I started only caressing her with the hook for a couple of seconds, just to let her know I was there then without hesitation I would slide the hook under her and lift her up and right onto my hands (with leather gloves on). By this point she had stopped the thrashing and throwing herself around when she saw a hand heading towards her and I would simply hold her in my hands over her tub for maybe 5 minutes in my outstretched hands during each handling session. For the most part, she would remain tensed up (but, so was I! lol), but she could also be a little flighty. She would sorta keep trying to crawl backwards out of my hands then she would settle down, but remain tensed up with her head in the classic defensive "S" posture. She seemed like she didn't want to take her eyes off of me. As I held her, she would always sorta turn the front half of her body so it was facing me and hold the defensive "S" posture. I did about 3 handling sessions just like that and they all went about the same way...

Now (at the end of the 2nd month):

After the 3 handling sessions described above, I would start out as usual by caressing her with the hook for only a couple of seconds then slide it under her and immediately pick her up with my now bare hands. I am now able to sit in the chair and hang out with her in my snake room and for the most part, she is just as chill and calm as can be. Once in awhile, if I move a hand to fast or something she might jump a little. But, otherwise, she is perfectly fine with me holding her and stroking her with my hand and seems like she would be perfectly content with me holding her for as long as I want. She does seem to like to sorta slide her head under my arm sometimes. The funny part of all this is, at no time has she ever actually struck or tried to bite! So, as far as i'm concerned, most of her previous behavior was just a big show... lol

Those of you more experienced Blood Python keepers are probably laughing at how slow, gradual and cautious this whole process went and would have probably accomplished all of this within the first week or so... lol But, considering she was my first Blood and she was a little older with some size to her and never had any previous handling before I got her and how she was acting, I couldn't be happier with how far I came with her. I am so happy to actually be able to hang out with her and enjoy her now! Photos of this pretty girl coming soon! :)

Perhaps this might help brand new Blood Python owners with "schizo" acting snakes in the future.

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Dude, the way this was written is hilarious. I want you to sloooooowly remove your hands from the keyboard and then re-read what you just wrote. I am glad you are getting in tune with your animals but this reads like a plot to a movie you have to be 18 or older to see.

Hey, at least I left the part out about how I was in my underwear, while I was caressing her body! lol

Well at least you had your underwear on. Never ever mess with tubs on your cleaning table without underwear. Especially on feeding day and the table is waist high. You will only make that mistake once.

I always joke with my kids to gross them out and tell them how when they aren't home I like to get naked and let my snakes crawl all over me... lol

Good to hear about the progress. Looking forward to pics.

Thanks, Jowens. I'm really glad she finally came around. Her new little future boyfriend will be delivered her next Wednesday. The breeder says that he's a total sweetheart...

Ive just recently (6 days ago) got a new Brongersmai as well! My local guy (didnt breed himself, but purchased from vpi to breed then decided not to, warned me that he (now about a year old) had not been handled much and was pretty feisty and would take a bit of work. When i bought him he was not happy at all to come out of his tub. I gave him a few days to settle in his new tub but had to pull him out to change his water (he dirtied it) so i began handling after 3 days. We keep it short and sweet for now, but over the last few days (he keeps dumping all his water so i hold him since ive got to disturb him anyway) he's gone from strike at me whenever i move to picking up without aide of a hook and just watching me curiously. I still dont trust him not to tag me if i move too quick but hes already doing better at taming up than i expected

Congrats on your awesome new friend, Dxw! It sounds like he will be just fine. I'm pretty sure I could have moved things along a lot faster with my Matrix girl had I not let her intimidate me. They really do seem to pick right up on that! As far as his water bowl, check out the section at Walmart where the baking dishes are. I found nice big heavy glass bowls there for only like $5.00 or $6.00. They are the ones that come with plastic lids. That's what I got for my Bloods and Sumatrans. They will outgrow them, though. So, i'm going to have to be finding something bigger for them. Dog dishes work great, too.

Be sure to keep us posted on your new friend and post pics!

I picked up a clearance dog dish for $2, big enough for him to soak completely, that has the sloped edges so it cant be tipped. It also has a single half circle opening which lets him into the hollow area and he's started using it as his hide. Its actually the perfect little bowl/hide for now, until he grows out of it. Its just too bad its super ugly, its got like bright colorful tennis ball print all over it (no wonder it was on clearance)

The sloped plastic dog dishes like that are great for snakes. I get them at one of the monthly reptile expos here for like $1.00 each. I use them for my adult Balls and my Boa and they don't even spill them. Once my Bloods and Short Tails outgrow their glass bowls i'm going to get some extra large ones for them. Then once they outgrow those, i'm not quite sure... lol Strangely, i've never even seen my Matrix soaking. I found her shed in her water dish, though. So, she must get in there sometimes. My Sumatrans, on the other hand, are constantly soaking in their water dishes. I would think they would get too cold, because when I pull them out of their water dishes to hold them they're freezing...