Animal Rights Groups Discussion

I hope this isn't against the rules or anything, but I wanted to make a thread about animal welfare and animal rights organizations. Just want some thoughts and opinions on them. Personally, I don't agree with most of the ideas these groups spread, but I'm trying to keep an open mindset. I'm a hunter, fisher, and I keep pets, some of which might be considered exotic. I love and take care of all my animals, yet I still run into conflict with animal rights/welfare organizations. It seems like they are always looking to make a problem. Please keep it civil so the thread isn't closed, but I'm very eager to hear ideas and stories.

I am 100% for animal welfare as I believe the critters under our care, custody, and control should be kept in the healthiest and most humane manner possible. I also am for sensible wildlife management practices to prevent the spread of diseases like CWD in deer.

I have little or no use for animal "rights" organizations, especially the ones who raise funds to line the pockets of Washington lobbyists instead of promoting animal rescue.

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Originally Posted by bcr229

I am 100% for animal welfare as I believe the critters under our care, custody, and control should be kept in the healthiest and most humane manner possible. I also am for sensible wildlife management practices to prevent the spread of diseases like CWD in deer.

I have little or no use for animal "rights" organizations, especially the ones who raise funds to line the pockets of Washington lobbyists instead of promoting animal rescue.

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I am the same way. I should have elaborated more, reading my own post it seemed like I was against welfare, but it's the animal "rights" people I don't like. They act very high and mighty and are constantly forcing their beliefs upon others. Of course I'm sure there are some that are good, but I've never had an interaction with them.

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Originally Posted by bcr229

I am 100% for animal welfare as I believe the critters under our care, custody, and control should be kept in the healthiest and most humane manner possible. I also am for sensible wildlife management practices to prevent the spread of diseases like CWD in deer.

I have little or no use for animal "rights" organizations, especially the ones who raise funds to line the pockets of Washington lobbyists instead of promoting animal rescue.

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Pretty much this. Animals deserve respect and care, especially when they're under human management. A person that takes on the responsibility of care for an animal and then fails to provide, or deliberately mistreats it should be held accountable by other humans as dictated by law and enforced by the court as the animal(s) can not do so themselves. Animals are not people. They don't think and reason like people, and treating them as people is often just as detrimental to their health and wellbeing as neglecting them entirely (examples: "vegan" cats, "dominance" training dogs, releasing any domestic animal into the wild to "be free").

If you try to tell me honey bees have the same level of sentience as a person, and that beekeepers are really slave masters stealing the hard earned honey of the oppressed worker bees, I'm going to ask you who your dealer is and how much you paid him for whatever you're smoking.

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Originally Posted by Lizardlicks

Pretty much this. Animals deserve respect and care, especially when they're under human management. A person that takes on the responsibility of care for an animal and then fails to provide, or deliberately mistreats it should be held accountable by other humans as dictated by law and enforced by the court as the animal(s) can not do so themselves. Animals are not people. They don't think and reason like people, and treating them as people is often just as detrimental to their health and wellbeing as neglecting them entirely (examples: "vegan" cats, "dominance" training dogs, releasing any domestic animal into the wild to "be free").

If you try to tell me honey bees have the same level of sentience as a person, and that beekeepers are really slave masters stealing the hard earned honey of the oppressed worker bees, I'm going to ask you who your dealer is and how much you paid him for whatever you're smoking.

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I agree we everything you said... but lets be real, we both know what they are smoking 😂😂

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

Meth. I mean I live in Washington, I know plenty of potheads, and they might be lazy but ain't none of them delusional!

Yeah, I'm all for welfare, but the animal rights groups and beliefs are insane. And I mean they have something wrong in the head. I really hope the fad doesn't rise past its current state. LOL

Reminds me of a discussion in a fish group on fb: someone's house set on fire and he saved his family. There were literally comments accusing him of not saving his fish. Save THE FISH, screw the human! Christ lol.

I do think part of it is kids being raised with a disconnect from the realities of life in the natural world. They only know people, and mostly dog and/or cats which have co-evolved with people for so long as to develop mimicking behaviors as a means to communicate. You get to farm kids, or one that's been hunting or fishing regularly, they know. They see life and death on the regular, they have a respect for animals and for people as part of one great big web that need each other to survive. They have respect and compassion without distortion, but also pragmatism without cruelty.

I run into a lot of urban kids that just plain don't understand how plants and animals work. They think food just appears at the grocery store, they anthropomorphize animals to a much greater extent because they've never been exposed to their quirks and behaviors.

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Originally Posted by Lizardlicks

I run into a lot of urban kids that just plain don't understand how plants and animals work. They think food just appears at the grocery store, they anthropomorphize animals to a much greater extent because they've never been exposed to their quirks and behaviors.

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Reminds me of this girl on facebook who told me to buy "meat from the grocery store", berating me for buying live rats (for when Cake was still on live).

I explained to her that 1. snakes have to eat entire bodies, and BP's won't eat chopped meat anyway, and 2. I'm in the process of converting him to frozen thawed rats, and he's just picky. She was okay with frozen thawed rats. :rofl::rofl::rofl:Because heck, you buy them frozen, so they were never alive, right? Just frozen rats having some frozen babies.

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Originally Posted by redshepherd

Yeah, I'm all for welfare, but the animal rights groups and beliefs are insane. And I mean they have something wrong in the head. I really hope the fad doesn't rise past its current state. LOL

Reminds me of a discussion in a fish group on fb: someone's house set on fire and he saved his family. There were literally comments accusing him of not saving his fish. Save THE FISH, screw the human! Christ lol.

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Exactly. The day when the majority of people believe that a human's life is even close to equivalent to any animal life is a day I hope I never see.

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Originally Posted by redshepherd

Reminds me of this girl on facebook who told me to buy "meat from the grocery store", berating me for buying live rats (for when Cake was still on live).

I explained to her that 1. snakes have to eat entire bodies, and BP's won't eat chopped meat anyway, and 2. I'm in the process of converting him to frozen thawed rats, and he's just picky. She was okay with frozen thawed rats. :rofl::rofl::rofl:Because heck, you buy them frozen, so they were never alive, right? Just frozen rats having some frozen babies.

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:8:My personal favorite was a comment I received on a hunting site about me hunting for meat. I don't remember the exact wording of the reply to my post, but it was something along the lines of: "Why don't you just get some meat from the store? Those animals are bred to be eaten. Deer aren't." It's funny how people think that a factory farmed chicken, likely one that was raised in a tiny cage and never saw the outside of the dark, cramped factory it lived and died in, has a better life then a wild animal that is ethically shot or trapped. It truly is a disconnect. People associate a wild animal with something majestic and frankly, above an animal that we perceive as food. It's really too bad, and I feel like hunters get a lot of flack for just trying to go about doing something we enjoy. I love hunting and I love knowing that the meat/fish I'm eating was humanely harvested by me. How much better can you get then that?

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Originally Posted by FlynnTheBP

:8:My personal favorite was a comment I received on a hunting site about me hunting for meat. I don't remember the exact wording of the reply to my post, but it was something along the lines of: "Why don't you just get some meat from the store? Those animals are bred to be eaten. Deer aren't." It's funny how people think that a factory farmed chicken, likely one that was raised in a tiny cage and never saw the outside of the dark, cramped factory it lived and died in, has a better life then a wild animal that is ethically shot or trapped. It truly is a disconnect. People associate a wild animal with something majestic and frankly, above an animal that we perceive as food. It's really too bad, and I feel like hunters get a lot of flack for just trying to go about doing something we enjoy. I love hunting and I love knowing that the meat/fish I'm eating was humanely harvested by me. How much better can you get then that?

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Exactly omg. It's ridiculous! I thought it was widely known that one of the biggest problems in animal welfare right now is the treatment of livestock/poultry on factory farms, before they're killed (and not humanely killed either) and butchered. But so many people lack this knowledge and sense. Hunting wild animals for food with humane weapons/tools is truly the most humane way to acquire meat for the fridge lol. Especially with the amount of food just one deer provides. And I'm just speaking from my perception living in a super suburban/urban state lol.

So we all know the side where PETA is the devil, but are there not portions of even this hobby that are pretty inhumane? The first thing that comes to mind is the wild importation and mass collection side of the industry. I try not to speak in absolutes so I am sure there are factions that accomplish this in a humane manor, but the terrible conditions in this part of the industry is pretty well detailed. It not only makes all of us responsible owners look bad to the general public, but also gives these over the top groups ammunition to tear us down. Now it seems that we are mostly for animal welfare so who are the groups that excel in this area?

I keep chickens on my little 7000 sqft lot in the middle of the city. 5 laying hens, 1 (technically not legal but the neighbors don't mind him) rooster. This was their first winter, and they stopped laying entirely from mid November to mid February. Feed costs me about 30 bucks a month in the winter when they don't have forage, then add the cost of the pullets initially and what I've put into housing them, and that certainly adds up to being more expensive than just going to the grocery store and buying a dozen there. But the eggs I get have yolks so dark orange they're almost red, they eat the bugs out of my garden, they eat my kitchen scraps and till my compost (which goes back into the garden, which feeds my family), when I do have extra eggs during the summer, I sell them to offset the cost of feed, and I'm going to try hatching some of my own eggs this spring and selling chicks to further offset the cost and I can also replenish my flock for near to free (or entirely free, if one or more of my girls goes broody) later on. And I just straight up get enjoyment from watching them hunt and scratch and peck all day, and they practically feed themselves on that plus the scraps during the summer.

Yes, the eggs are more expensive than the grocery store, but I have happy, healthy, humanely treated chickens that give me so much more than just a carton of mediocre eggs.

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Originally Posted by redshepherd

Reminds me of this girl on facebook who told me to buy "meat from the grocery store", berating me for buying live rats (for when Cake was still on live).

I explained to her that 1. snakes have to eat entire bodies, and BP's won't eat chopped meat anyway, and 2. I'm in the process of converting him to frozen thawed rats, and he's just picky. She was okay with frozen thawed rats. :rofl::rofl::rofl:Because heck, you buy them frozen, so they were never alive, right? Just frozen rats having some frozen babies.

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My fellow blondes amaze me.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...eafb65d068.jpg

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Originally Posted by Reinz

My fellow blondes amaze me.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...eafb65d068.jpg

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I always love when you post this pic LOL
Fortunately, she was chinese, but I'm also chinese, so there's that. :rofl:

Haha, have a similar thing come up in a topic on the BYC forums. A guy who raises his own chickens for meat had a big family BBQ and served the birds he harvested humanely from his flock. A relative (I think a cousin???) was appalled that he would kill his chickens when there was perfectly good meat that they "made" at the grocery store.

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Originally Posted by redshepherd

Exactly omg. It's ridiculous! I thought it was widely known that one of the biggest problems in animal welfare right now is the treatment of livestock/poultry on factory farms, before they're killed (and not humanely killed either) and butchered. But so many people lack this knowledge and sense. Hunting wild animals for food with humane weapons/tools is truly the most humane way to acquire meat for the fridge lol. Especially with the amount of food just one deer provides. And I'm just speaking from my perception living in a super suburban/urban state lol.

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I feel you. I live in California. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Lizardlicks

Haha, have a similar thing come up in a topic on the BYC forums. A guy who raises his own chickens for meat had a big family BBQ and served the birds he harvested humanely from his flock. A relative (I think a cousin???) was appalled that he would kill his chickens when there was perfectly good meat that they "made" at the grocery store.

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You're on BYC too?! I didn't think I would find a fellow chicken lover here. :gj: I haven't been active for a while but I love those forums.

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Originally Posted by AntTheDestroyer

So we all know the side where PETA is the devil, but are there not portions of even this hobby that are pretty inhumane? The first thing that comes to mind is the wild importation and mass collection side of the industry. I try not to speak in absolutes so I am sure there are factions that accomplish this in a humane manor, but the terrible conditions in this part of the industry is pretty well detailed. It not only makes all of us responsible owners look bad to the general public, but also gives these over the top groups ammunition to tear us down. Now it seems that we are mostly for animal welfare so who are the groups that excel in this area?

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I find that the smaller private owned welfare groups are the best. They usually have similar principles to what we've discussed so far. There is also a lot of misinformation about the exotic pet trade and trafficking. Lots of groups, like said PETA, spread this misinformation for their own purposes. Many snakes in the pet trade are either CB or harvested ethically from the wild. There are always exceptions, but they are less common then you would think.

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Originally Posted by Lizardlicks

Haha, have a similar thing come up in a topic on the BYC forums. A guy who raises his own chickens for meat had a big family BBQ and served the birds he harvested humanely from his flock. A relative (I think a cousin???) was appalled that he would kill his chickens when there was perfectly good meat that they "made" at the grocery store.

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i think a huge issue with animal rights and the livestock/farming industry is that we as consumers are sooooo far removed from our food we don't even think about it unless it's literally SHOVED in our faces. we only see the worst of things, and i feel that turns people off and makes them throw their hands up like "well gosh it's so bad there's nothing we can do" when in fact there is.

as a society we are groomed to want the best deal, even if that means lowering the welfare of our food. "NO WAIT LOOK! it's only $1.99/lb tho wow look! don't think about why just BUY!!!!!!" if i had the ability i would gladly raise my own animals and prepare them as food; i would know everything about them and know they lived happy lives and were well cared for.

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Originally Posted by tttaylorrr

i think a huge issue with animal rights and the livestock/farming industry is that we as consumers are sooooo far removed from our food we don't even think about it unless it's literally SHOVED in our faces. we only see the worst of things, and i feel that turns people off and makes them throw their hands up like "well gosh it's so bad there's nothing we can do" when in fact there is.

as a society we are groomed to want the best deal, even if that means lowering the welfare of our food. "NO WAIT LOOK! it's only $1.99/lb tho wow look!!!!!" if i had the ability i would gladly raise my own animals and prepare them as food; i would know everything about them and know they lived happy lives and were well cared for.

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:gj:

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Originally Posted by AntTheDestroyer

So we all know the side where PETA is the devil, but are there not portions of even this hobby that are pretty inhumane? The first thing that comes to mind is the wild importation and mass collection side of the industry. I try not to speak in absolutes so I am sure there are factions that accomplish this in a humane manor, but the terrible conditions in this part of the industry is pretty well detailed. It not only makes all of us responsible owners look bad to the general public, but also gives these over the top groups ammunition to tear us down. Now it seems that we are mostly for animal welfare so who are the groups that excel in this area?

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Many of the exotic animals we keep originate in parts of the world where people treat each other with less regard than we treat our pets. I won't argue that that side of the industry doesn't have its issues - because it does - but for that reason I also don't purchase from those sources.

Yeah, the best thing we can do, we're already doing. Making conscientious purchases from reliable breeders, practicing responsible keeping and breeding, and educating the public. Legislation that I would like to see is more regulation on wild caught imports. The commercial pet chain store industry is not only exploiting the animals, but as bcr pointed out they also exploit the local people by paying them pennies then up marking the inferior product to resell. Some places have been taking steps to make sure they get their animals from ethical sources, but not enough.

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Originally Posted by tttaylorrr

i think a huge issue with animal rights and the livestock/farming industry is that we as consumers are sooooo far removed from our food we don't even think about it unless it's literally SHOVED in our faces. we only see the worst of things, and i feel that turns people off and makes them throw their hands up like "well gosh it's so bad there's nothing we can do" when in fact there is.

as a society we are groomed to want the best deal, even if that means lowering the welfare of our food. "NO WAIT LOOK! it's only $1.99/lb tho wow look! don't think about why just BUY!!!!!!" if i had the ability i would gladly raise my own animals and prepare them as food; i would know everything about them and know they lived happy lives and were well cared for.

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My dream goal is to start a permaculture based eco commune and eventually collaborate with city planners in areas of urban food deserts to bring food forest based intentional communities into impoverished areas of our country. Ideally it would create jobs, housing and better food security in to places that need it most. Food security and youth education are huge hot button issues for me, and it may be a long shot of a goal, but the way I see it, the worst thing I could do is nothing at all.

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Originally Posted by FlynnTheBP

You're on BYC too?! I didn't think I would find a fellow chicken lover here. :gj: I haven't been active for a while but I love those forums.

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Ya, I just won a dozen hatching eggs through a photo contest, too! Excited to get new chicks in April :D

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Originally Posted by Lizardlicks

My dream goal is to start a permaculture based eco commune and eventually collaborate with city planners in areas of urban food deserts to bring food forest based intentional communities into impoverished areas of our country. Ideally it would create jobs, housing and better food security in to places that need it most. Food security and youth education are huge hot button issues for me, and it may be a long shot of a goal, but the way I see it, the worst thing I could do is nothing at all.

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that's a fantastic idea. you can have at-risk youth volunteer after school: educate them, give them responsibilities, and working with animals is proven to help troubled people. eventually you could even hire them. you seem very passionate about helping people, i feel this is something that would not be beyond your abilities to accomplish. :gj:

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Originally Posted by Lizardlicks

My dream goal is to start a permaculture based eco commune and eventually collaborate with city planners in areas of urban food deserts to bring food forest based intentional communities into impoverished areas of our country. Ideally it would create jobs, housing and better food security in to places that need it most. Food security and youth education are huge hot button issues for me, and it may be a long shot of a goal, but the way I see it, the worst thing I could do is nothing at all.



Ya, I just won a dozen hatching eggs through a photo contest, too! Excited to get new chicks in April :D

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Ooh, I love the photo contests! What breed did you get? I recently hatched out some mixed eggs but I ended up giving away the chicks I hatched. More to the topic, I have a couple of runner ducks and several animal welfare groups have started petitions to "release" all domestic ducks, saying that they should be wild. Well, I don't know about other breeds, but my runner ducks can't fly and certainly can't protect themselves against predators. They wouldn't last a minute out on a lake. Heck. I worry about leaving them out of their pen too late in my own yard. (They free range most days and I lock them in at night.)

Deeply embedded in the human mind are the desires to belong to, believe, and exist for something. That thing could be a religion, a political view, animal rights, gun control etc. This combined with a low IQ and an agenda create a perfect storm that produces radicals on both sides of an issue. No matter what we do as long as we are human we will have these problems. The only things that really helps is always understanding both sides of an issue even if the other side lives in fantasy land. In order for your opinion to be respected you have to be willing to call BS on your own side when it is. For example, with reptiles, I believe people should be able to own and do what they want as long as they are not hurting others. Where I flip "sides" on this issue is with burms in Florida. We have issues here, the origin can be argued forever, but we have a problem. I would only make myself look like a fool if I argued anyone should be able to buy a burm here. Problems that we have here only give activists more ammunition. Don't argue with these people when on the rare occasion they are right, but fight them tooth an nail when they are not.

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

Deeply embedded in the human mind are the desires to belong to, believe, and exist for something. That thing could be a religion, a political view, animal rights, gun control etc. This combined with a low IQ and an agenda create a perfect storm that produces radicals on both sides of an issue. No matter what we do as long as we are human we will have these problems. The only things that really helps is always understanding both sides of an issue even if the other side lives in fantasy land. In order for your opinion to be respected you have to be willing to call BS on your own side when it is. For example, with reptiles, I believe people should be able to own and do what they want as long as they are not hurting others. Where I flip "sides" on this issue is with burms in Florida. We have issues here, the origin can be argued forever, but we have a problem. I would only make myself look like a fool if I argued anyone should be able to buy a burm here. Problems that we have here only give activists more ammunition. Don't argue with these people when on the rare occasion they are right, but fight them tooth an nail when they are not.

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Good point. Even a broken clock is right twice a day. (Lol I meant the crazy animal rights people, not you!)

It's going to be a mix of australorps, sliver laced wyandottes, buff orpingtons, and speckled sussex. I already have a slw roo and hen, and a buff orp hen, but I'm really excited for the australorps and sussex! I'm probably just going to keep a couple I like of each and sell the rest. Might also try hatching out some of my own eggs this year.

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Originally Posted by Lizardlicks

It's going to be a mix of australorps, sliver laced wyandottes, buff orpingtons, and speckled sussex. I already have a slw roo and hen, and a buff orp hen, but I'm really excited for the australorps and sussex! I'm probably just going to keep a couple I like of each and sell the rest. Might also try hatching out some of my own eggs this year.

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Lucky! Wyandottes are my favorites. I also love buffs...:)

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Originally Posted by FlynnTheBP

I find that the smaller private owned welfare groups are the best. They usually have similar principles to what we've discussed so far. There is also a lot of misinformation about the exotic pet trade and trafficking. Lots of groups, like said PETA, spread this misinformation for their own purposes. Many snakes in the pet trade are either CB or harvested ethically from the wild. There are always exceptions, but they are less common then you would think.

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While I agree with the fact that most captive bred animals likely come from humane conditions, or at least would hope that is true, most wild caught species will experience some sort of unethical treatment at some point or another. Whether it be in the way they are caught or shipped to not receiving the care they deserve once they arrive at the distribution center. Most of these species are not well understood or are very cheap so they be subjected to substandard conditions even once they arrive into someone's collection. I honestly think it is more likely mistreatment of animals is more common than you think.

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Originally Posted by bcr229

Many of the exotic animals we keep originate in parts of the world where people treat each other with less regard than we treat our pets. I won't argue that that side of the industry doesn't have its issues - because it does - but for that reason I also don't purchase from those sources.

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This is very true but as hobbyist who have a deep care for these animals we must take a stand against this mistreatment. I think your stance of not buying from these sources, if done widespread through out the hobby, is a great way to accomplish this goal. Once they can no longer sell animals in substandard condition they will change their practices to match our standards, if only for the money. The way it is now if you purchase from any large online retailer of wild caught species you are more than likely supporting this terrible side of the industry.

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Originally Posted by AntTheDestroyer

While I agree with the fact that most captive bred animals likely come from humane conditions, or at least would hope that is true, most wild caught species will experience some sort of unethical treatment at some point or another. Whether it be in the way they are caught or shipped to not receiving the care they deserve once they arrive at the distribution center. Most of these species are not well understood or are very cheap so they be subjected to substandard conditions even once they arrive into someone's collection. I honestly think it is more likely mistreatment of animals is more common than you think.



This is very true but as hobbyist who have a deep care for these animals we must take a stand against this mistreatment. I think your stance of not buying from these sources, if done widespread through out the hobby, is a great way to accomplish this goal. Once they can no longer sell animals in substandard condition they will change their practices to match our standards, if only for the money. The way it is now if you purchase from any large online retailer of wild caught species you are more than likely supporting this terrible side of the industry.

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Sorry I wasn't more clear, I did not mean that the actual wild trade was not ridden with issues, I meant that a lot of people think that most of snakes are WC when so few actually are these days. Still way too many, but also a small fraction of the pet population. Just in my experience though, a lot of guests and even family members tell me my CB leopard geckos or CB Greek tortoise were smuggled in/captured by poachers. :rolleyes: Nope, they were most certainly not.

Poultry keeper here. Current flock is Silver Dorkings, with an older buff Orph. and an elderly bantam cochin. Would like to get ducks, but they can really raise the feed costs, and then there is the mess! I also want pigeons, but right now we are focused in getting the milk goats back into production. One can only deal with so many projects at once.

WHO on Earth could possibly think domestic ducks could survive "free"?
Wow.

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Originally Posted by distaff

Poultry keeper here. Current flock is Silver Dorkings, with an older buff Orph. and an elderly bantam cochin. Would like to get ducks, but they can really raise the feed costs, and then there is the mess! I also want pigeons, but right now we are focused in getting the milk goats back into production. One can only deal with so many projects at once.

WHO on Earth could possibly think domestic ducks could survive "free"?
Wow.

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Exactly. They just aren't wild animals. Once we domesticate something, we need to take full responsibility of it. That means keeping them safe and secure, not just throwing them out. Oh, and the ducks are very messy and food is expensive, but it can really cut down costs to let them range and forage all day. I also supplement their diet with veggies, greens, and a little fruit. I've always wanted pigeons as well, particularly homing pigeons. Unfortunately I have my hands full; too many pets I guess. :D

My chickens are all heritage breeds and forage wonderfully, so with their roo, if they ever decided screw the humans, I wouldn't doubt they'd go feral and start a population easily. Ducks tho, that's just. What. I've seen people try to do the same with rabbits. They just let them go into the woods and three weeks later bunny is food or road kill or frozen bun-cicle because they haven't got any survival instincts.

(Aaaah I want goats, I'd love a little herd of nubians with a boer stud. Raise the babies for meat, keep the good milkers that get big and try for a nicely balance meat/dairy cross).

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Originally Posted by Lizardlicks

My chickens are all heritage breeds and forage wonderfully, so with their roo, if they ever decided screw the humans, I wouldn't doubt they'd go feral and start a population easily. Ducks tho, that's just. What. I've seen people try to do the same with rabbits. They just let them go into the woods and three weeks later bunny is food or road kill or frozen bun-cicle because they haven't got any survival instincts.

(Aaaah I want goats, I'd love a little herd of nubians with a boer stud. Raise the babies for meat, keep the good milkers that get big and try for a nicely balance meat/dairy cross).

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Yep. I had friends, notice the past tense, who released their rabbits and guinea pigs, as well as a baby corn snake outside. I can 200 percent guarantee you that none of those animals lasted a night outside. I felt absolutely terrible about the snake, they didn't tell me before the kids did it or else I would have taken it in temporarily. I really dislike rabbits and guinea pigs, but I still feel bad for them as well. The friends found the remains of a few. The rest were never seen again.

Depending on the area, the corn snake might have. They are native to the US and have a pretty broad range in the south. Unless it was one of those non-wild type morphs that would look like a glowstick to a predator.

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Originally Posted by Lizardlicks

Depending on the area, the corn snake might have. They are native to the US and have a pretty broad range in the south. Unless it was one of those non-wild type morphs that would look like a glowstick to a predator.

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Yes, this. This is why I have no doubt there is at least one berm within 200 yards of where I sit right now. Some animals have zero problem going back to the wild. Snakes, lizards, cats, pigs have zero problem thriving if the environment is right.

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

Yes, this. This is why I have no doubt there is at least one berm within 200 yards of where I sit right now. Some animals have zero problem going back to the wild. Snakes, lizards, cats, pigs have zero problem thriving if the environment is right.

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Poor thing was an albino. He stuck out like a sore thumb.

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Originally Posted by FlynnTheBP

Poor thing was an albino. He stuck out like a sore thumb.

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You are right then, probably done for. Albino's are found in the wild but there is a reason this wasn't selected as the primary coloration in nature.

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

You are right then, probably done for. Albino's are found in the wild but there is a reason this wasn't selected as the primary coloration in nature.

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Ugh I know. Wish you guys were right and he could have survived. I know their non-native here, not condoning releasing any snakes or anything, just too bad. The little baby was so sweet.

We get a significant number of rabbits turned in at my shelter as strays; it astonishes me how many people think you can just dump a domesticated pet rabbit into the yard to-- what? Hang out with the cottontails? Idiots.

I myself brought in a trio of stray Peking ducks that someone had dumped in my neighborhood park, before I started working here. They were coming into their adult plumage and all three were bright white. They ran right for the dog carrier when I got it out of the car and put it in front of them. Poor things wouldn't have survived the night.

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Originally Posted by Nellasaur

We get a significant number of rabbits turned in at my shelter as strays; it astonishes me how many people think you can just dump a domesticated pet rabbit into the yard to-- what? Hang out with the cottontails? Idiots.

I myself brought in a trio of stray Peking ducks that someone had dumped in my neighborhood park, before I started working here. They were coming into their adult plumage and all three were bright white. They ran right for the dog carrier when I got it out of the car and put it in front of them. Poor things wouldn't have survived the night.

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Aww, and Pekings are the sweetest little guys. My runners are so flighty. :P Cottontail rabbits might as well be a different species compared to pet rabbits. They have completely different survival instincts.

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Originally Posted by FlynnTheBP

Aww, and Pekings are the sweetest little guys. My runners are so flighty. :P Cottontail rabbits might as well be a different species compared to pet rabbits. They have completely different survival instincts.

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They actually are a different species! Different genus, in fact. Domestic rabbits are in the genus Oryctolagus, a European rabbit genus, where American cottontails are in the genus Sylvilagus.

~The more you know~

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Originally Posted by Nellasaur

They actually are a different species! Different genus, in fact. Domestic rabbits are in the genus Oryctolagus, a European rabbit genus, where American cottontails are in the genus Sylvilagus.

~The more you know~

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That's very interesting! I learn something new every day. :D Thanks! Now I can use that argument.