HELP > blood under scales

hi everybody

my ball python having blood under scales and she refusing the food for more than 2 months
HELP please
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...%2F20ssqxe.jpg

Have you checked her for mites? Can you post a picture of her enclosure?

Is this the only spot or are you saying that it is all down her Belly in different places?
Looks to me like she got her scales caught on one of the Tank decorations.. Whats your setup look like? You would be suprised what kinds of things can catch on them, Drift wood ect.. Ive even seen people catch a snake on the Plastic around the glass taking them out of the enclosure.
Thats heals.. Just keep Newspaper down instead of wood substrate to keep would clean.. Also if you see the wound (flesh) use neosporin (w/OUT PAIN RELEIF as its TOXIC). Should heal fine.
Also feed, its winter, some adults go off feed. How old is she, how long have you had her, whats her aprx weight and what are your temps and how are you heating and controlling heat.

We can help with the feeding issue if you can tell us more about the enclosure, temperatures, heating elements, etc.

A picture of your set up would be great.

Is the blood spot just in that one area or are there other spots? It is a little weird... could anything have fallen on her?

she have blood in many places

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...m%2Fzoby4p.jpg

i dont have any temp control im using regular bulb for heating and this wood piece wasnt soft but i softened it from week ago and the red spots keep increasing
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...%2F1538x0m.jpg

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Originally Posted by the eg python

she have blood in many places

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...m%2Fzoby4p.jpg

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IMO that calls for a trip to the Vet..
Also you cant use regular bulbs for heat.. Thats 24/7 light.. All heating needs a thermistat, you have to control the temps.
You Need to go read the Sub Forum Stickies on Husbandry.

and i noticed now that she had some red under the eye cap
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...%2F1znrfd1.jpg

Yeah that is weird... I would schedule a vet appointment.

Are you using an under tank heating pad? It could be a burn if you are.

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Originally Posted by Mr Sully

IMO that calls for a trip to the Vet..
Also you cant use regular bulbs for heat.. Thats 24/7 light.. All heating needs a thermistat, you have to control the temps.
You Need to go read the Sub Forum Stickies on Husbandry b

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i live in egypt there is no vets for reptiles here i wish we had one

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Originally Posted by the eg python

i live in egypt there is no vets for reptiles here i wish we had one

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Ohhh wow.... Ive seen several burns and they weren't fresh blood like that so I dont know whats going on.. But none of that is good. Do you see any bugs under the scales?
How long have you had the snake?

i had her for year now
and no there is no bugs
and i use bulb for heating on the top of the tank so its not possible to be burns

Quote:

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Originally Posted by the eg python

i had her for year now
and no there is no bugs
and i use bulb for heating on the top of the tank so its not possible to be burns

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Have you seen her climbing on that stick? I suppose its possible she fell off it. Has the blood been spreading? Is the snake eating and acting normal otherwise?

That is so sad :(

That does look rather serious. Perhaps some sort of sepsis?
Without a vet, though, I'm not sure what you can do. I understand there is no vet available, though.

Can you get some of the basic medicines that people use on reptiles ? I would normally never advise "going alone", but what choice do you have ?
Can you get Baytril antibiotcs? Dewormers like panacur? Something along the lines of Flagyl for possible protozoan infection ? Many of these meds are also used for other pets, would a vet be able to give you some of that?

Without knowing the cause, this would be a shot in the dark, for sure. At this point I would try anything.

Other then that all you CAN do is keep your husbandry as spot on as you can. With only the light as a heat source you might have low humidity, see if you can bump that up some.

Hope your snake gets better.

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Originally Posted by zina10

That is so sad :(

That does look rather serious. Perhaps some sort of sepsis?
Without a vet, though, I'm not sure what you can do. I understand there is no vet available, though.

Can you get some of the basic medicines that people use on reptiles ? I would normally never advise "going alone", but what choice do you have ?
Can you get Baytril antibiotcs? Dewormers like panacur? Something along the lines of Flagyl for possible protozoan infection ? Many of these meds are also used for other pets, would a vet be able to give you some of that?

Without knowing the cause, this would be a shot in the dark, for sure. At this point I would try anything.

Other then that all you CAN do is keep your husbandry as spot on as you can. With only the light as a heat source you might have low humidity, see if you can bump that up some.

Hope your snake gets better.

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i think i can get this but i dont know how to use them ??

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Originally Posted by Kaorte

Have you seen her climbing on that stick? I suppose its possible she fell off it. Has the blood been spreading? Is the snake eating and acting normal otherwise?

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yes she acting totaly normal but she is not eating ... when i give her a mice i feel like she cant see .. it looks like she is trying to shed but the skin is not coming off

Quote:

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Originally Posted by the eg python

yes she acting totaly normal but she is not eating ... when i give her a mice i feel like she cant see .. it looks like she is trying to shed but the skin is not coming off

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Without a thermometer that tells temps and Humidity there is know way for us to know if she needs adjutments to her enclosure..
She may be dry from that Bulb..
Your not keeping her in the correct envirment. They need 60% Humidity and over 70% during shed week. A light bulb dries the heck out of them.

From your pictures it doesn't look like she has any stuck shed.

I wouldn't jump straight to medications just yet.

Put the snake on paper towels and lightly mist them to add some humidity. Where in Egypt are you? I will look up the weather. Is your house unusually cold?

I would provide the snake with another hide like you have and put the water in the center. It looks like the water bowl has a lid on it, any reason for that?

Cover the bottom of the enclosure with crumpled pieces of paper to provide some cover for the snake. This will make her feel safer.

Please get yourself a digital thermometer and hygrometer with a probe. Are you able to order online from Amazon?


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kaorte

From your pictures it doesn't look like she has any stuck shed.

I wouldn't jump straight to medications just yet.

Put the snake on paper towels and lightly mist them to add some humidity. Where in Egypt are you? I will look up the weather. Is your house unusually cold?

I would provide the snake with another hide like you have and put the water in the center. It looks like the water bowl has a lid on it, any reason for that?

Cover the bottom of the enclosure with crumpled pieces of paper to provide some cover for the snake. This will make her feel safer.

Please get yourself a digital thermometer and hygrometer with a probe. Are you able to order online from Amazon?


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i can order from e bay but it takes like a month or even more to arrive
that water bowl with the lid (with holes) its just some warm water to increase the humidity i will take it out later

Quote:

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Originally Posted by the eg python

i think i can get this but i dont know how to use them ??

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If the blood seems to spread and she is also not eating, it may be more then a injury or lack of humidity.

How long have you had her ? Did she used to eat for you ? Has she had any problems before ? Where did you buy her from, from a "store" or from an individual that breeds ? If she is Wild Caught (I'm assuming) then there is a good chance she has some internal parasites. Hook worms are nasty and can cause quite the issues. How long has it been that you noticed this problem ? How fast does it seem to be spreading?

It is just so hard to tell from the internet alone.

Its been a long time since I've medically treated my rescues. I have used Baytril and Flagyl orally, and I have given shots of antibiotics (all with vet approval)
at home, but I do not remember the dosages. They also depend on the weight of the animal and shots have to be given in a certain area of the body, under the scale. (I believe its the front third part of the snake)

I really hesitate even giving that advice, since you can do a lot of damage just treating without Vet supervision, but if this problem gets worse and there is no vet, what can you do ?

Perhaps you could post in the "Advanced Husbandry" section and the more experienced snake keepers, the ones that work with imports and wild caughts can give you some help on where to start, dosage and what to do.

I really wish I could help more, but in this case its a 50/50 on saving her with "home" treatment, or making things worse. Not doing anything, is the same shot in the dark, though.

A really bad situation to be in, I feel bad for you and your snake :(

If she used to eat for you, if she was healthy before, then this may just be something that will correct itself as long as you provide good care. If she never did great and is getting worse, you might need to do more..

Do you perhaps have a community of reptile enthusiasts in your country ? People that share the same interests?

They may be able to help you too, with supplies they may have on hand (Thermometers, gauges, etc)

Hi OP,
I understand your situation, with no vet available. It's hard enough to find vets who take BPs here in the states. You know the black hide you have in there? I noticed that the entrance is slightly jagged. Could she have gotten injured crawling through it? More likely though IMO is internal bleeding, based on the blood under the eye cap. I think she likely fell from the top of that branch and was injured. If she is blind, you can brush her lips and neck with the mouse you are feeding her, assuming it's f/t and not live. This will hopefully help her take it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zina10

If the blood seems to spread and she is also not eating, it may be more then a injury or lack of humidity.

How long have you had her ? Did she used to eat for you ? Has she had any problems before ? Where did you buy her from, from a "store" or from an individual that breeds ? If she is Wild Caught (I'm assuming) then there is a good chance she has some internal parasites. Hook worms are nasty and can cause quite the issues. How long has it been that you noticed this problem ? How fast does it seem to be spreading?

It is just so hard to tell from the internet alone.

Its been a long time since I've medically treated my rescues. I have used Baytril and Flagyl orally, and I have given shots of antibiotics (all with vet approval)
at home, but I do not remember the dosages. They also depend on the weight of the animal and shots have to be given in a certain area of the body, under the scale. (I believe its the front third part of the snake)

I really hesitate even giving that advice, since you can do a lot of damage just treating without Vet supervision, but if this problem gets worse and there is no vet, what can you do ?

Perhaps you could post in the "Advanced Husbandry" section and the more experienced snake keepers, the ones that work with imports and wild caughts can give you some help on where to start, dosage and what to do.

I really wish I could help more, but in this case its a 50/50 on saving her with "home" treatment, or making things worse. Not doing anything, is the same shot in the dark, though.

A really bad situation to be in, I feel bad for you and your snake :(

If she used to eat for you, if she was healthy before, then this may just be something that will correct itself as long as you provide good care. If she never did great and is getting worse, you might need to do more..

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she was eating normally and shedding perfect for like a year with me

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Originally Posted by FlynnTheBP

Hi OP,
I understand your situation, with no vet available. It's hard enough to find vets who take BPs here in the states. You know the black hide you have in there? I noticed that the entrance is slightly jagged. Could she have gotten injured crawling through it? More likely though IMO is internal bleeding, based on the blood under the eye cap. I think she likely fell from the top of that branch and was injured. If she is blind, you can brush her lips and neck with the mouse you are feeding her, assuming it's f/t and not live. This will hopefully help her take it.

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maybe u r right because this problems started when i got that stick

That is good that she used to be healthy, that usually rules out the problems that WC animals have.

From the little bit of reading I just did, I came across information from a Vet site that said that "ulcerative dermatiti" (scale rot) can start out looking like blood behind the scales.

I've only ever seen it when the scales already turned brown and "crispy" looking, but apparently it can start out that way.

Either way, in your case the best bet is to keep your husbandry as good as you can, get that humidity up there and keep the cage super CLEAN. Clean any mess up immediately. Perhaps remove the climbing branch for now, too.

If things get worse, you might have to do more, though..but watch it for now!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zina10

That is good that she used to be healthy, that usually rules out the problems that WC animals have.

From the little bit of reading I just did, I came across information from a Vet site that said that "ulcerative dermatiti" (scale rot) can start out looking like blood behind the scales.

I've only ever seen it when the scales already turned brown and "crispy" looking, but apparently it can start out that way.

Either way, in your case the best bet is to keep your husbandry as good as you can, get that humidity up there and keep the cage super CLEAN. Clean any mess up immediately. Perhaps remove the climbing branch for now, too.

If things get worse, you might have to do more, though..but watch it for now!

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ok i will do that

This really has me stumped. The eye cap is really odd... My Balls have fallen from 12" high several times and never even have a bruise let alone internal bleeding coming through the flesh and scales... Im wondering if it is acually scrapes?
That stick looks real smooth, pretty too, but that or the plastic container may be doing somthing, hard to beleive but i dont know what else to think. Can you take the stick out and cut a thicker not so paper cutty "rubbery plastic " bowl for a hide and test it for 2 weeks? You'll know within that time if the blood dries and whatever is happening stops. Maybe a Cardboard hide?

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Originally Posted by the eg python

ok i will do that

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With this dry environment do snakes get Scale Rot? Thank God ive never delt with it, but i thought it was from moist places that hatbor bacteria? Has anyone heard if it effecting the eye?
Do you clean up any mess he/she makes right away or are you gone a lot?

Looking at the picture you have, it seems more and more her pupil might be blow. It happens in humans with crush/trauma injuries such as car crashes, and if she fell head first it's very possible. It could be UD but honestly I've dealt with that before in my garters and I've never seen it present itself like this. Good luck and keep us updated.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr Sully

With this dry environment do snakes get Scale Rot? Thank God ive never delt with it, but i thought it was from moist places that hatbor bacteria? Has anyone heard if it effecting the eye?
Do you clean up any mess he/she makes right away or are you gone a lot?

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You're right, scale rot usually comes from moisture, which is why I suspect trauma and internal bleeding.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr Sully

With this dry environment do snakes get Scale Rot? Thank God ive never delt with it, but i thought it was from moist places that hatbor bacteria? Has anyone heard if it effecting the eye?
Do you clean up any mess he/she makes right away or are you gone a lot?

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It can also come from BP's sitting in their urates, whether on paper or substrate.

The rescues I got in that had scale rot, were usually kept in the typical "neglect" situations, bone dry enclosures, no optimal heat, no humidity. I have never had it in my own collection, just received it with rescues, but none of them were kept in wet conditions, although I'm sure that would make a better bacteria breeding ground ?

Hopefully the OP's snake doesn't have anything serious going on and with better husbandry, it will resolve.

edited to say, trying to find some sources, its interesting reading for sure !

Yeah none of this makes too much sense to me.

I would just keep the enclosure clean and wait for the next shed to see if it improves.

Do you mist the enclosure for Humidity? Do you know others with snakes, friends ect? If so what do they do? What is your environment/weather like in Eygpt?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr Sully

Do you mist the enclosure for Humidity? Do you know others with snakes, friends ect? If so what do they do? What is your environment/weather like in Eygpt?

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the wather is not that dry but sometimes i mist the tank in sheding days

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Originally Posted by the eg python

the weather is not that dry but sometimes i mist the tank in shading days

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This needs to be done every day. Remember, ideal humidity is 50-60 percent, slightly higher when the snake is in shed.

man...this looks like some form of septicemia...but that could be coming from my fishkeeping side...looks real similar though.

I'd just do whats been suggested-100% clean setup, spot on husbandry and keep monitoring.

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Originally Posted by predatorkeeper87

man...this looks like some form of septicemia...but that could be coming from my fishkeeping side...looks real similar though.

I'd just do whats been suggested-100% clean setup, spot on husbandry and keep monitoring.

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That's so funny, I thought exactly the same thing at first! But I don't think this shows in snakes like this... I also keep/breed fish so I'm sure that's why.

now she likes to stay in the water i got her out three times and she still go back to the water
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...%2F102tend.jpg

Maybe she is too hot? Ball pythons don't normally soak unless something is wrong. How strong is the lamp you are using?

Just leave her be, try not to handle her unless necessary.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by the eg python

now she likes to stay in the water i got her out three times and she still go back to the water
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...%2F102tend.jpg

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Don't take her out, she's soaking for a reason. How's her humidity?

i recently noticed a small ball on her back... what's this
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...571e82f9f6.jpghttps://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...b050c63845.jpghttps://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...281198f447.jpg

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Originally Posted by the eg python

i recently noticed a small ball on her back... what's this

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Is the ball hard or soft and squishy? May be a blood blister considering her other issues with the bleeding

Perhaps you can email a reputable vet that is stateside and ask their opinion.

I honestly have no clue what this could be.

Do you feed live prey?


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I still have the suspicion of something to do with blister disease or something turned septic ..

Of course I could be WAY off base here. It seems as if the blood vessels are seeping under the skin for whichever reason. And that looks like a blister on the back.

What is causing all that ? That is the question :(

Dr. Del had a awesome idea, see if you could email a reptile vet in the US. Some are super nice and helpful, they cannot give you a diagnoses over the internet, but they can point you in the right direction.

The poor thing :(

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Originally Posted by zina10

I still have the suspicion of something to do with blister disease or something turned septic ..

Of course I could be WAY off base here. It seems as if the blood vessels are seeping under the skin for whichever reason. And that looks like a blister on the back.

What is causing all that ? That is the question :(

Dr. Del had a awesome idea, see if you could email a reptile vet in the US. Some are super nice and helpful, they cannot give you a diagnoses over the internet, but they can point you in the right direction.

The poor thing :(

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any suggestions for a vet???

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Originally Posted by the eg python

any suggestions for a vet???

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Not right off the bat, I could google some later. You could also google "reptile rescues" and email them, with pictures. They usually have quite the experience with all kinds of problems and work in conjunction with vets.

What you could do for now is prepare your inquiry. Type everything out, leave nothing out. Start with background info, how long have you had the snake, how old is it, what did it eat and how often, where did you get it from. Then describe your husbandry, how you keep it, the temperatures, enclosure, etc. Then go on to explaining the problem. How it started, when, how it progressed, latest development, how long food has been refused. Make sure you mention where you are from and that no exotics vet is available and that you are searching for tips, info and any help you can get...

Once you have everything typed out, add all the pictures.

This way you have it ready to go and can just copy and paste it into emails or messages to different places and people.

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Originally Posted by the eg python

any suggestions for a vet???

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This might help you find someone in your area...

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...d-Exotics-Vets

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Originally Posted by cletus

This might help you find someone in your area...

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...d-Exotics-Vets

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He is from Egypt and can't find (or aren't any) vets that treat reptiles..

https://www.facebook.com/davidvetclinic/

how about this one?

https://m.facebook.com/profile.php?i...urce=typeahead

I've met Jason a few times. He is a great vet and helped me with one of my breeders that retained a slug egg.

He should respond via Facebook message.


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