OK, need some help here.

Ok so I fed Caesar a 167g rat on Thursday. He also ate Dottie's 140g rat since she wasn't hungry. Well it's been 4 days and he is acting very hungry again. Anytime I walk by his cage, he shoots out of his hide and tracks me. He did come out and start pushing a little but quit and went back into his hide but just sits with his face outside and like I said, any time I walk by, he is like a dart to the glass and tracking. How much do your retics eat a week? Am I seriously underfeeding Caesar? I mean crikey!! how much food can this snake eat. Here's a couple pics of him shooting out with me standing there with a camera at the glass lol.
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...877dcad1_h.jpg
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...a910c0fa_h.jpg
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...8a8263da_h.jpg
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...317be4a8_h.jpg

I mean I'm seriously at a loss. I mean to keep him quiet, it took like a 240g rat which kept him quiet for like 10 days. I'm going to guess a single medium is going to keep him quiet for 4 days if I'm lucky. Not sure if you can see in the pics but he is still very muscular.

I know very little about retics and have never owned one, but I have to tell you, either you have a gift for taking pictures or Caesar is incredibly photogenic and a ham or some combination... because he is both beautiful and totally cute in those pictures!

He's got your number. LOL

He knows the "pretty please" head tilt works ;)

Reminds me of my horse...

This is her "one more cookie, pleeeeaaaseee" face..lol, head tilt and all ;)

http://photos.imageevent.com/morgens...88215767_n.jpg

Lol thanks but that's his 'I want dinner face'. He always sits with his his head and neck hanging out of a hide and if not hungry, he will just sit there when you walk by but if he's hungry, he stands up and darts up to the glass and follows you. He had a really cute face going when I peeked around the cage corner at him but I wasn't ready with the camera haha. It's like the 3rd pic down but he is trying to peek to around the corner of the cage with his face glued to the door lol.

But I really cant figure out why Caesar is so hungry so quick. I mean everyone else says they feed their retics once every 7-10 days on small rats or medium rats. I tried the medium rat and it just doesn't fill him up for long. Like I said, in 4 days, he is out and about and tracking any movement. I mean can a 9 month old SD really need a large rat every week to keep him content?? :confusd:

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Originally Posted by zina10

He's got your number. LOL

He knows the "pretty please" head tilt works ;)

Reminds me of my horse...

This is her "one more cookie, pleeeeaaaseee" face..lol, head tilt and all ;)

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...88215767_n.jpg

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Haha exactly!!

I'm feeding Gene 1 medium rat (never weighed) every 7 days. If Tina skips her small rat he'll get seconds. Gene gets a lot of outside time from his enclosure, every other day for about an hour or so. He never pushes but will track often if I start peeping in on his tub. I'd like to up him to larges, but I have like 25 mediums left.

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That sounds like a pretty hearty meal Sauzo. How heavy is Caesar btw? You're definitely not under feeding him. Some snakes are just voracious and will eat anything anytime but don't let them fool you. There's a difference between wanting more food and being hungry. And if he's active 4 days after a meal that doesn't always mean he should get to eat again. That just gives him a chance to work off some calories. :)

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Originally Posted by EL-Ziggy

That sounds like a pretty hearty meal Sauzo. How heavy is Caesar btw? You're definitely not under feeding him. Some snakes are just voracious and will eat anything anytime but don't let them fool you. There's a difference between wanting more food and being hungry. And if he's active 4 days after a meal that doesn't always mean he should get to eat again. That just gives him a chance to work off some calories. :)

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Um I think when I weighed him last week, he was 2108g or something like that. he isn't fat, still has good muscle tone and his head looks proportional to his body. His tail is also in line with his body unlike some fat snakes where it looks like someone glued a smaller, thinner tail onto a fat snake lol.

Well if he only just cruised around, I wouldn't care so much but he starts pushing and actually has hurt himself. He had 2 nicks on his chin from pushing. They are healed up now as I checked today but I just don't want him to smoosh his face. I've been told that if they push too hard, they can sometimes break a tooth and/or develop an abscess which will require a vet.

I mean I guess I'll watch him and see how he acts. If he starts pushing badly, then I'll just have to feed him lol.

The boas do the same and will cruise around when close to feeding time but they don't push like Caesar and they definitely aren't as outgoing as him. I mean I open their doors and they usually just calmly poke their head out. I open Caesar's door and he is at the front stretched out like 1/3 of his body wanting to know what's going on. He isn't shy. Just kind of hoping he doesn't get 10' as a 10' snake with his outgoing not shy personality worries me a little lol. I mean I'm sure after a few years I wont mind but I've only had him for almost 5 months. The saving grace is I can use the twisted up paper towel like a sword and boop his snoot and bonk the top of his head and he backs up and lays down in the cage floor and goes back in his hide haha.

He's cool man.. Those retics are definetly more in tune than burms if they are all like Caesar.

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Originally Posted by Mr Sully

He's cool man.. Those retics are definetly more in tune than burms if they are all like Caesar.

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Thanks and no idea as I've never owned a burm and Caesar is my first and only retic but if they are generally like him, I want more haha. He's such a character like my beardie except he always wants to eat lol.

I'd like a caramel burm too but not sure about a 13' snake combined with the girth that burms get. Plus I haven't really heard any breeding being done up here in Washington State but I also haven't really looked hard.

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

Thanks and no idea as I've never owned a burm and Caesar is my first and only retic but if they are generally like him, I want more haha. He's such a character like my beardie except he always wants to eat lol.

I'd like a caramel burm too but not sure about a 13' snake combined with the girth that burms get. Plus I haven't really heard any breeding being done up here in Washington State but I also haven't really looked hard.

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Yup and thats a gamble too, 13' can turn into 16' no problem....
and the Dwarfs I hear ruined the Docile manner so the Heck with that. One of the greatest things about a burm is they are a gentle giant.

Retics are smart. It sounds like he's learned that if he pops out of his hide when you walk by there's a good chance he'll get fed.

Mine do the same thing - but as soon as they know they're not getting fed, because I have the spray bottle or I'm preparing to take them out - they hit the reverse gear and go right back into their hides.

I agree with bcr and EL about not being fed. These retic are a very active species in the wild and climb and cover quite a bit of ground. I would just let him be active and the natural innate behavior consistent with the species. Why don't you consider a larger enclosure for the future earlier?

Been saying most snakes are over fed for a long while now. Not saying Caesar is. It don't let species activity and potential to eat mass quantities get you into a habit. Conditioning is part of this as mentioned. The reason people hook train is because some species especially retics think they are eating every time the door opens. They learn where the door is and are ready when they see motion. If mainland males can be maintained on one large a week Caesar can too.


Might be time to explore perches, larger caging, water bottle toy or other areas.

I don't think always feeding is the answer. It will mellow him for a bit. It's that's digestion taking place.

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Originally Posted by bcr229

Retics are smart. It sounds like he's learned that if he pops out of his hide when you walk by there's a good chance he'll get fed.

Mine do the same thing - but as soon as they know they're not getting fed, because I have the spray bottle or I'm preparing to take them out - they hit the reverse gear and go right back into their hides.

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Lol that is EXACTLY what he does!!! He pops out. And then when no dinner he hits reverse until just his head is out of the hide and lays back down hahaha.

Yeah I might look into a larger cage for him this summer. The activity isn't really the part that bothers me, its him shoving his head between the litter dam and sliding doors. What are you using between your doors JM or anyone else with AP cages?

Also, hook training was a bad idea for him lol. He HATED the hook. It was the only time I ever saw him actually get angry enough to open his mouth, coil up and hiss. If he gets all excited, I just boop him on the snoot with his twisted up paper towel. he knows that thing now as I've used it since I got him. He's fine with it and the instant I boop his snoot or bonk the top of his head with it, he will lay down or hit reverse and back into his hide.

Ok well thanks guys. Think I'll do tough love and make him wait it out and stick to around the 200g rat a week or a decent size quail. He's not big enough for gpigs or rabbits yet, at least not the size that the gal at my reptile shop has.

And bcr hit the nail on the head. Like I said, that's exactly what he does hahaha. Little bugger must have learned that. I'm being played by my retic :P On the plus side though, his and Dottie's jumbo hides should be here today woohoo.

Hook training is anything tapping him before you deal with him. Wallace attacks metal hooks too LOL.

Tap training might be better term.

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

Yeah I might look into a larger cage for him this summer. The activity isn't really the part that bothers me, its him shoving his head between the litter dam and sliding doors. What are you using between your doors JM or anyone else with AP cages?.

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I've got two thin pieces of foam core board from matting my artwork used to fill the gap in the right door track. You could probably use about a 3/8" thick strip of wood or styrofoam or something too. The part that I hate about having to fill that gap is that I can't use the left door. I have to open the right door, take out the strip filling the gap, and then open the left side. I need to send Ali an email asking if they can make some sort of shim that will raise the bottom door track to be flush with the litter dam of the front cage panel. That would mean having to cut different size doors, move the lock up about 1 1/2-2", etc. alternatively I've considered going with the swinging doors but I just don't like them. They're not glass, they don't swing down, the post in the center of the cage from is bigger, the door frames are proportionally smaller windows. I'd prefer to keep the sliding option if they can make a way to eliminate the gap in the right side of the door track if at all possible.


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Originally Posted by jmcrook

I've got two thin pieces of foam core board from matting my artwork used to fill the gap in the right door track. You could probably use about a 3/8" thick strip of wood or styrofoam or something too. The part that I hate about having to fill that gap is that I can't use the left door. I have to open the right door, take out the strip filling the gap, and then open the left side. I need to send Ali an email asking if they can make some sort of shim that will raise the bottom door track to be flush with the litter dam of the front cage panel. That would mean having to cut different size doors, move the lock up about 1 1/2-2", etc. alternatively I've considered going with the swinging doors but I just don't like them. They're not glass, they don't swing down, the post in the center of the cage from is bigger, the door frames are proportionally smaller windows. I'd prefer to keep the sliding option if they can make a way to eliminate the gap in the right side of the door track if at all possible.


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YeaH I did similar with my boa. Once the nook was filled he lost interest. Good call JM.

I'm loving these retic threads. They def weren't on my radar but I can def see an SD in my future. lol

To me your retic looks mighty thin. My dwarf retic can eat up to 10% of her body weight every five days! I'd feed way more until you get some girth on that snake, then once they fill out a bit you can cut way back. My dwarf just passed the ten pound mark and is now too heavy for my scale LOL. When they are young their metabolism is super fast, in just two days a large rat bump is completely gone, personally I think they should be fed every five days when young. Once they get a bit bigger and older they slow way down.

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Originally Posted by cchardwick

To me your retic looks mighty thin. My dwarf retic can eat up to 10% of her body weight every five days! I'd feed way more until you get some girth on that snake, then once they fill out a bit you can cut way back. My dwarf just passed the ten pound mark and is now too heavy for my scale LOL. When they are young their metabolism is super fast, in just two days a large rat bump is completely gone, personally I think they should be fed every five days when young. Once they get a bit bigger and older they slow way down.

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It's also a male, and has super dwarf blood. Both of which contribute greatly to a much leaner built animal. Just because it will eat every time food is offered doesn't mean it needs to.


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I look at the 'neck' just behind the head, I think it should be filled out more on that snake.

Besides constantly being hungry he looks great. I've always compared male retics to 3 year olds. Their heads get huge and look like bobble heads for awhile as their body's catch up.

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Originally Posted by cchardwick

I look at the 'neck' just behind the head, I think it should be filled out more on that snake.

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I disagree, and respectfully so don't take it harshly as I can't convey tone in typed words.

This particular breeder (Caesar's and Wallace's) also recommends a midline, maintenance feeding program for his D/SD males.

That snake isn't even a year old yet, a male, and has a combined percentage of dwarf and SD blood.

Granted they are active, they are not colubrids, and people purchase the dwarf and SD variants specifically for the smaller size.

He is already feeding large rats, and somewhat frequently at that.

I think his snake looks in excellent shape, and will fill out fully in time.

I also don't think a snake should be fed to the point where it becomes inactive. The species is active and should be.

Once you stuff it and it sits curled up constantly, you are on your way to cutting its life short.

Pushing is very common in retics. It is not all about food. They are active, they explore, they are said to be intelligent or at least have instinctual traits that resemble intelligence. I have a female carpet that is a very picky eater, She is monthly at best and she pushes now and then. She knows where the cage opens, and if I open it she will come out, then go back in, then come out. It's just her silly behavior. No food, live or frozen will change that. She refuses on the spot.

Caesar's neck may look small, but that's because the head is growing and the jaw muscles behind it are getting larger.

My boa is a mature adult now and his head grew, then he filled out, then filled out more the neck is finally looking nice. Retics get long and skinny first and then size up. My carpet was the same, and actually so was the royal. I think Caesar will be more than in shape when he grows into his adult years if not over fed.

I think the caging, the gaps and some other factors are in play here. I have an animal that is 13 days younger and still eating small rats. He's not a pusher and refused his last meal and has refused in the past. Caesar is simply a busier guy and may need some optional caging decor or a larger size.

Sauzo has already experimented with adding food and things keep going back to the pushing. I think its time to search other avenues. Maybe a slight temp drop, push toy, change some husbandry, shorten the light cycle, so many possibilities. Or maybe he pushes his whole life.

Throwing food at the problem isn't a solution here IMO.

Well here is a better picture to give you more perspective on his size. At last weigh in last week I believe, he was around 2108g or somewhere around there, I cant remember now, dang old age :P
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...ddf005e9_h.jpg

You can see here his head is in proportion to his body and his tail from the vent back is in proportion to vent forward. I notice in a lot of fat snakes, it looks like someone cut the tail off at the vent and then glued a thinner tail on. It's like the snake has huge hips lol. And that's what I'm trying to avoid. Much easier to fatten a snake up if needed than to try and slim one down.

@Gio- He was getting about a 200g large rat every 10 days. To tell you the truth, he got 1 large rat that was 240g and that lasted him about 2 weeks but he also went into shed after eating it. Before that he was eating about 160g medium rats but like I said, one was lasting him about 4 days before he started pushing and being a terror. My plan was to up him to large rats but not 240g ones as that left a huge lump in. made him quiet as a church mouse though lol. That's why I was thinking of doing a happy median of 200g as the 160ish gram ones seem to keep him tied over for about 4 days and the 240g looked a bit big. I mean once in awhile sure, I'll give him a big meal and other times give him small meals. I just need to find the happy median and then I can adjust from there.

Lol maybe next week when its feeding time for half of them, I'll drag my scale to the shop with me and weigh a few rats until I find the 200g one so I can get an idea of how big it is. Sure the gals working there will give me grief but I've known them a long time so its all good haha.

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

Well here is a better picture to give you more perspective on his size. At last weigh in last week I believe, he was around 2108g or somewhere around there, I cant remember now, dang old age :P
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...ddf005e9_h.jpg

You can see here his head is in proportion to his body and his tail from the vent back is in proportion to vent forward. I notice in a lot of fat snakes, it looks like someone cut the tail off at the vent and then glued a thinner tail on. It's like the snake has huge hips lol. And that's what I'm trying to avoid. Much easier to fatten a snake up if needed than to try and slim one down.

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Well said bud.

They are not boas, but having some boa knowledge, as you do helps when it comes to knowing when to say when.

He looks fantastic and I honestly think you are fine with food.

If you are getting worried or really struggling give Kris a shout. I'll bet he'll help you with some ideas.

Wallace just shed and I'm going to feed him tonight. Its been 15 days. He's ready but not going crazy be any means.

They all should settle down a bit after eating. The energy require to process the meal requires it.

Ok since I couldn't edit my post anymore.....And he doesn't push 24/7. Pushing is just part of his routine when he is out and about. He spends a lot of time up on his shelf and also just flat out stretched out across the front of the cage lol. He mostly just does whatever. It's like the boas, the closer to feeding day it gets, the more they become active. The difference is the boas don't stuff their head between the litter dam and door, they just crawl all over their shelves and stare out the front of the doors lol. Maybe I'll just try and find something to pack in the gap which would honestly solve my problems as that's the only thing Caesar does that is destructive to himself except when he got stuck in his plant...stupid snake haha.

And also like bcr said, I'm wondering he 'learned' that if he pushes his head down there, he will get fed. Just like when I walk by, he shoots out to the front but when no food, he hits reverse and goes back to his hide or wherever he was.

I have to say, retics are a completely different deal than boas lol. My boas are easy to read but Caesar definitely keeps me on my toes and like I said, he isn't shy and is a lot more outgoing than the boas. And it doesn't help either that he wont refuse dinner anytime. He once ate his medium rat, Dottie's medium rat AND Luna's adult mouse. And he was a baby then. Honestly if you got picky eaters, buy a retic. Don't need anything else, nothing will go to waste with a retic-can lol :P

Oh and another tell tale sign I've noticed. They get these 2 huge lines of fat down each side of their spine on the top of their back. It looks like the Grand Canyon instead of being flatish lol. Vicky was starting to get the Grand Canyon which is why she has been cut back to 3-4 weeks although she hasn't shed in a good 2 months so I'm expecting a 'filling out' to happen pretty soon. Rosey did the same thing.

Yep,

An "advanced" species.

The pattern behavior could very well be a part of it. But like Zig said that doesn't mean it should be rewarded with food.

They all want food, cripes sometimes I even want food. Drive by a steak place and I'll push too LOL!

Oh and another thing since I don't feel like starting a new thread for it alone, the new hides came in. For those wondering about jumbo RBI hides...they are HUGE!!. I gave Dottie 2 and I don't think she liked them. She crawled all over them and checked them out but she is in blue so I don't think she was happy about it lol. I gave her back her large hides and even though usually half her fat butt hangs out of them, she LOVES them. She immediately crawled in them and curled up lol.

So I ended up giving one to Caesar who seems to like it. He is stretched out inside it with his head at the door lol. I gave another to Rosey who went and inspected it and sat with just her head inside it for about 30 mins. Now she is hanging out at the doorway of it, so I guess it gets her approval. And I gave another one to Vicky who doesn't really even use hides so she looked at it and then sat half stretched out behind her water bowl lol. The other one I just kept and will give it to Rango when he gets big enough for one.

So yeah, the jumbo hide will easily fit a 7' boa if you need a hide for one. The dish soaking tubs from Walmart or Restaurant supply shops will work just as well and cheaper but since I already ordered and paid for the RBI ones, might as well use them. I will say, they are really pretty and made from a different material than the large and medium RBI hides. And they are light too.

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Originally Posted by Gio

Yep,

An "advanced" species.

The pattern behavior could very well be a part of it. But like Zig said that doesn't mean it should be rewarded with food.

They all want food, cripes sometimes I even want food. Drive by a steak place and I'll push too LOL!

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Yeah, I really don't want to get him into that pattern lol. I do think he was playing me though after bcr mentioned her retics do the same thing to her!! On a plus note though, his 2 scrapes on his chin have completely healed as I checked again today when I was changing his hides and shoving him around the cage lol. He kept coming over to see what I was doing as I was stirring his Eco Earth and stuff. I had to shove him off me lol. I gave him the new hide when I got half the cage turned so that would occupy him while I turned the rest of the Eco Earth lol. I know the day he tags me, I'm going to be in shock haha. It's just if Rosey ever bit me, I'd probably die from shock as nothing you do to her seems to startle her lol. She is just so easy going.

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

Yeah, I really don't want to get him into that pattern lol. I do think he was playing me though after bcr mentioned her retics do the same thing to her!! On a plus note though, his 2 scrapes on his chin have completely healed as I checked again today when I was changing his hides and shoving him around the cage lol. He kept coming over to see what I was doing as I was stirring his Eco Earth and stuff. I had to shove him off me lol. I gave him the new hide when I got half the cage turned so that would occupy him while I turned the rest of the Eco Earth lol. I know the day he tags me, I'm going to be in shock haha. It's just if Rosey ever bit me, I'd probably die from shock as nothing you do to her seems to startle her lol. She is just so easy going.

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Yeah,

I think your boas probably won't ever bite you unless you make a grave error.

Retics are great, busy and fun but require a bit of extra care and work. Not rocket science, but for some they are too much. Some folks like lap dog snakes. I certainly am one of them, but I like to have some action too.

Wallace has been staring me down since I took the shed out so he's ramping up for dinner I'm sure.

Sniper was pushing (my boa) hard for a while. I used the same method JM mentioned, although modified for my cage. It worked. He didn't feel the little area where air was coming through, and the was really no gap so he gave up.

Keep us posted.

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Originally Posted by Gio

Yeah,

I think your boas probably won't ever bite you unless you make a grave error.

Retics are great, busy and fun but require a bit of extra care and work. Not rocket science, but for some they are too much. Some folks like lap dog snakes. I certainly am one of them, but I like to have some action too.

Wallace has been staring me down since I took the shed out so he's ramping up for dinner I'm sure.

Sniper was pushing (my boa) hard for a while. I used the same method JM mentioned, although modified for my cage. It worked. He didn't feel the little area where air was coming through, and the was really no gap so he gave up.

Keep us posted.

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Yeah my boas never really pushed. Vicky would stick her head kind of down there but just enough to flick her tongue in there and when nothing, she backed out. Caesar just goes gung ho and shoves his whole fat head down lol. I swore he was going to get stuck a few times. The boas investigate...Caesar just dives in hahaha.

And yeah I like the lap snakes too. Rosey is my big puppy dog that I just drag out and throw around on me and tote around lol. I can do it with Vicky too but not as carefree as Rosey. I think in another year, she will be like Rosey.

Retics are awesome lol. They definitely keep you busy and like I said, you gotta watch them sneaky buggers. I think Caesar was playing me for free food by shoving his head in the doorway and darting out every time I walked by giving me the cocked head and big eyes 'you're starving me to death' look hahaha!!!

And what the heck folks!!! No likes for those Caesar begging for food pics!!! I think you people have been too spoiled with all the Caesar pics!! ;)

Well if it helps, I saved the photos!

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I just adore your Caesar! Totally adorable. I so wish they came in a small, single-person-handling, size. Is there any such species out there like Retics? And are legal in NYS?

Lol I was looking at the pics myself and I totally had the thought of those little clown cars where you see like 10 clowns come out of. That little hide has a 5'+ retic in it haha. I did upgrade him though to a much large hide now. He definitely gives the tail up approval as he is camping in it now with his head poking out.
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...e75a0a69_b.jpg
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...22aef914_b.jpg

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

Yeah my boas never really pushed. Vicky would stick her head kind of down there but just enough to flick her tongue in there and when nothing, she backed out. Caesar just goes gung ho and shoves his whole fat head down lol. I swore he was going to get stuck a few times. The boas investigate...Caesar just dives in hahaha.

And yeah I like the lap snakes too. Rosey is my big puppy dog that I just drag out and throw around on me and tote around lol. I can do it with Vicky too but not as carefree as Rosey. I think in another year, she will be like Rosey.

Retics are awesome lol. They definitely keep you busy and like I said, you gotta watch them sneaky buggers. I think Caesar was playing me for free food by shoving his head in the doorway and darting out every time I walked by giving me the cocked head and big eyes 'you're starving me to death' look hahaha!!!

And what the heck folks!!! No likes for those Caesar begging for food pics!!! I think you people have been too spoiled with all the Caesar pics!! ;)

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I checked them at work on my cell. (pictures) I go back and "Like" them!

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Originally Posted by DLena

I just adore your Caesar! Totally adorable. I so wish they came in a small, single-person-handling, size. Is there any such species out there like Retics? And are legal in NYS?

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Thanks. Caesar is awesome. He's my little man lol. Well Caesar is a superdwarf/dwarf and mainland retic male. Kris at Vital Exotics said he should get to about 7' tops with normal feedings. I am planning for 10' so I don't get surprised in a bad way lol but if he stays smaller, all the better. 10' is fine for a single person to handle. Just got to take precautions like with any large constrictor, even the ultra mellow ones. Never wrap them around your neck. Snakes do get startled and their instinct is to tighten up. They also will do that if they feel they are going to fall. Well our instinct when we cant breath with something around our neck is to try and grab and loosen it. The snakes instinct is to tighten even more. An finally our bodies response to lack of air is to fall over dead. Wasn't the snakes fault, he wasn't trying to be malicious and kill you or eat you, he was just scared or startled and being a snake. My bigger snakes, I usually drag them out and sling their head and 1/3 of their body over my shoulder so their head is hanging down my back and then I cradle the rest of them with my arms. I always will sometimes throw them over a shoulder and then drape them down my back and reach around and support their bum with my arm that they don't have their head on my shoulder if that makes sense. But usually I do the first method. Only problem with that is you gotta watch where you're walking so you don't bonk their head on a doorway or wall lol. My girls love to stretch out and check stuff out as I walk so I have to be careful and Caesar is just a spazz and literally will stand straight up to touch the ceiling or stretch out to the front or sides to try and grab stuff.

And I don't believe retics are legal in NYC. I don't know about outskirts or anything. Best to just check with your county.

There are also Burmese pythons which I hear are like giant puppy ball pythons haha. I have never owned one so I cant actually answer it but that's just what I heard. I have no idea though of they are legal in NY either.

Thank you for all the feedback. I checked in Kenmore NY, where I live. The only problem is with snakes over 10 feet, and that's acceptable with a permit and inspection. My dum female is 7.5 feet and I can handle her very easily. How would an adult SD do in a cage 4 feet x 30 inches x 17.5 inches with a shelf or 6 feet x 30 inches x 17.5 with a shelf?
How is temperament? Are they like dogs, where the miniatures of a breed are overly nervous or prone to more diseases than the full- sized ones? Or would that not be an issue with a reputable breeder?

I'm sorry for hijacking your thread. I should have PM'd you. I just thought of that now.:tears:

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

... when I was changing his hides and shoving him around the cage lol. He kept coming over to see what I was doing as I was stirring his Eco Earth and stuff. I had to shove him off me lol. I gave him the new hide when I got half the cage turned so that would occupy him while I turned the rest of the Eco Earth lol. I know the day he tags me, I'm going to be in shock haha.

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Yeah, there's no way in hell Phyllis would let me do that much cage maintenance with her still in there. I'd wind up with her attached to my face more than likely. Just had her out for a couple minutes while I cleaned up a couple of pisses from her. Seemed a bit quicker moving and squirrelly than usual but I'm attributing that to our recent "disagreement" lol. I really need to pull the trigger on a bigger cage for her in order to, at the very least, make getting her in and out of the cage easier. T8 is fine area wise for her to live in but getting a fast and strong 6-7' snake out of an 8" door opening is quite the task especially if she's behind/on/under her branch. Her upgrade will definitely be taller and include a shelf. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...b12ab5b7df.jpg.


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Originally Posted by jmcrook

Yeah, there's no way in hell Phyllis would let me do that much cage maintenance with her still in there. I'd wind up with her attached to my face more than likely. Just had her out for a couple minutes while I cleaned up a couple of pisses from her. Seemed a bit quicker moving and squirrelly than usual but I'm attributing that to our recent "disagreement" lol. I really need to pull the trigger on a bigger cage for her in order to, at the very least, make getting her in and out of the cage easier. T8 is fine area wise for her to live in but getting a fast and strong 6-7' snake out of an 8" door opening is quite the task especially if she's behind/on/under her branch. Her upgrade will definitely be taller and include a shelf. https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...b12ab5b7df.jpg.


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Lol yeah you guys had a heck of a disagreement there. Well a T10 is only about 2" more on the door opening. I believe they are 10" but they are shorter than the T8. T8 though is 1" longer on the door opening than T10s. I have no problem but I also have a pretty minimalist set up. I give them a hide, the big water bowl and the shelf. So getting anyone out is fairly easy.

And yeah, I'm not too worried about getting bit by Caesar once he knows its not dinner time. Also I boop him on the snoot with the twisted paper towels too so that also might have him used to being touched on the face so if I bump him on the snoot or pet his head, he simply just hits reverse or turns and wanders off. Now when I open the cage, he is at the front like flies on poop lol. During that time, I probably wouldn't be too surprised if he took a shot at my hand if I stuck it in. He dives head first into stuff so yeah.....but once I do the boop, he's fine.

And yeah, I plan on getting some T25s later but for me, its not a priority atm as everyone seems fairly content now.