Gerald Super Dwarf Ultra Ivory Retic Progression

Without further ado, Gerald!
Gerald arrived this morning at about 9:30 in great shape. He was bred by Bob Clark from an ultra ivory anerytheristic male 6' and a fire het anery female 11'. 50% super dwarf blood hApPiE bUrPhDaEy!and 50% Thailand mainland blood and 100% het anery. Hatched on 3/15/16 and two and a half weeks from his 1st birthday he's currently about 3.5'... and very fast and squirrelly/flighty. I don't imagine he's had a lot of one on one time aside from cleanings at Bob's facility.
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Already off to a very inquisitive and rambunctious start. Pushing at everything in the cage as we speak. Took an enormous piss about 30-40 seconds out of the bag haha! Was told he was feeding on rat pups every 7-10 days but definitely looks like he could take down a small rat easily. I will be trying Gio's maintenance feeding approach in hopes of keeping his size in check. I'm guessing anywhere from 6-9' adult potential size and Bob told me that sounded about right.
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His colors and super minimal pattern are absolutely stunning in person. Curious and excited to see how his color develops as he ages. They often get some really beautiful grey freckling and darkening yellows. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...ac561edc1f.jpg
Has a very slight pushing scrape on his bottom lip that is barely visible here. I may offer him food sooner than the one week settling in time to keep him from pushing too wildly but we'll just have to see how he settles in for a couple days. He's finally quit pacing the cage and coiled in his warm side hide for the moment. Such an amazing looking animal.
My friend who's been breeding reptiles of all sorts from mainland retics to albino diamond back rattlers for 25 years recently got a pair of adult 100% super dwarf females that were bred from his original wild caught bloodline that he sold several years back. I think we're planning to breed Gerald to them next season which would produce 75% super dwarf offspring all platinum/fire and 50% possible het anery.
Thanks for looking!



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Wow good looking snake! Interesting to see him grow would love to see him as an adult. Good luck with the breeding project


Wooohoo more retics!! :)

All you guys with your starving feeding schedules!!! Feed the snakes!!! They are retics and they eat. Don't try and keep it small by underfeeding it!! Buy a male Hognose if you wanted a small snake!!! My god!!! :D And it's worth testing out his food drive. Caesar ate about 2 hours after being here and hasn't stopped lol.

A 3.5' eating rat pups seems kind of small. I would imagine Bob had him on minimal feeding size and schedule as breeders want to keep them small as long as possible so they are easier to sell. Plus it cuts down on his overhead cost for food. At 3.5' Caesar was easily pounding small rats. Heck, Kris was feeding him small rats at just over 2' when I got him.

Awesome snake though. Be interesting to see what yellowing and patterning he develops with age.

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

All you guys with your starving feeding schedules!!! Feed the snakes!!! They are retics and they eat. Don't try and keep it small by underfeeding it!! Buy a male Hognose if you wanted a small snake!!! My god!!! :D And it's worth testing out his food drive. Caesar ate about 2 hours after being here and hasn't stopped lol.

A 3.5' eating rat pups seems kind of small. I would imagine Bob had him on minimal feeding size and schedule as breeders want to keep them small as long as possible so they are easier to sell. Plus it cuts down on his overhead cost for food. At 3.5' Caesar was easily pounding small rats. Heck, Kris was feeding him small rats at just over 2' when I got him.

Awesome snake though. Be interesting to see what yellowing and patterning he develops with age.

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Oh wow, Caesar fed after two hours?! I may give Gerald a meal in that case. I've got a few small rats in the freezer that Geoffrey obviously won't have any interest in eating until probably April haha. I'll post more pics when I feed him.
And yes, I'm sure Bob kept him on pups for the last year to keep feeding overhead costs low and keep him small. I'm just not going to offer him food every 4-5 days like I did with Phyllis when she was a hatchling. Gerald has great muscle tone and proportions for his short length and I'm in no hurry for him to get huge or obese.


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Originally Posted by jmcrook

50% super dwarf blood hApPiE bUrPhDaEy!and 50% Thailand mainland blood and 100% het anery.

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Not sure how that hApPiE bUrPhDaEy snuck in there hah. Must have had that copied on my phone from texting to a couple friends recently and accidentally pasted it in here and didn't notice



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Yeah Caesar ate quick lol. He also wanted shy. When I pulled him out of the bag, he just sat there checking me out and the area. So yeah, he never was a shy one. Oh yeah, I doubt I would feed him every 4-5 days. I feed Caesar every 7-10 days but honestly, it really boils down to him as he lets me know when he's hungry by cruising around and pushing at stuff. It's pretty much the same with all the snakes. When they get hungry, they start cruising around and climb on their shelves and overall are busy. Once full and content, they either ball up and relax or stretch out and relax lol.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jmcrook

Not sure how that hApPiE bUrPhDaEy snuck in there hah. Must have had that copied on my phone from texting to a couple friends recently and accidentally pasted it in here and didn't notice



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Haha I saw that and just figured you had some weird form of Tourets so I wasn't going to point it out :P

A SD retic will stay small no matter how you feed it, if you have to underfeed it to keep it small it's likely going to get bigger than you want.

I'll have to disagree that the schedule Gerald was on was starving though. Not every snake is a hunger-crazed beast like Caesar, and they grow just fine being fed in that manner. Lol River was 3' even when I got her and I fed her rat pups until she was at least 4'. She grew 1.5' in 6 months eating that way, went from 3' at 6 months to 4.5' at a year. I did up her feeding through most of her second year, but ended up having to reduce the prey size as the bigger prey seemed to weigh her down. She easily took prey 15-25% of her weight as a baby, once she got on rabbits it had to be brought back down to 10-15%. Rats don't weigh her down as much but she does still get lazy the first few days on a colossal.

Also I love the ultra ivories, and Gerald is a handsome example!

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

All you guys with your starving feeding schedules!!! Feed the snakes!!! They are retics and they eat. Don't try and keep it small by underfeeding it!! Buy a male Hognose if you wanted a small snake!!! My god!!! :D And it's worth testing out his food drive. Caesar ate about 2 hours after being here and hasn't stopped lol.

A 3.5' eating rat pups seems kind of small. I would imagine Bob had him on minimal feeding size and schedule as breeders want to keep them small as long as possible so they are easier to sell. Plus it cuts down on his overhead cost for food. At 3.5' Caesar was easily pounding small rats. Heck, Kris was feeding him small rats at just over 2' when I got him.

Awesome snake though. Be interesting to see what yellowing and patterning he develops with age.

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Retics are still reptiles and reptiles have evolved over millions and millions of years to sustain themselves during long periods of famine. Just because something is a retic doesn't mean it is open season to give it endless food. JM and I SD x dwarf retics for a reason. They are smaller. They are from island populations that have seasonal peaks in feeding. Seasonal migration of certain bird species to those islands, mating and birth cycles of other mammals, rainy season, and other events play a role in their feeding and adult size.

Though they are more active than the average boid, they are not made up the same way as some of the colubrids that actively forage.

Feeding SD retics in theory should mimic their natural food cycles. They should have some prey variety, some variation in prey size and frequency and you as the keeper should observe their individual needs.

It is well known and stated by more than a few experts that a male SD and dwarf retic can thrive and live a long healthy life by eating 1 large rat a week. Females may take a bit more, but if you are not breeding them, there is no need to stuff any snake unless you want it big.

I'm doing just fine feeding my snake 1 small rat every 7-10 days and have had zero issues.

JM,

Find what the snake wants/needs and go from there but I'd always stay conservative.

Gerald is a beauty!!

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Originally Posted by CloudtheBoa

A SD retic will stay small no matter how you feed it, if you have to underfeed it to keep it small it's likely going to get bigger than you want.

I'll have to disagree that the schedule Gerald was on was starving though. Not every snake is a hunger-crazed beast like Caesar, and they grow just fine being fed in that manner. Lol River was 3' even when I got her and I fed her rat pups until she was at least 4'. She grew 1.5' in 6 months eating that way, went from 3' at 6 months to 4.5' at a year. I did up her feeding through most of her second year, but ended up having to reduce the prey size as the bigger prey seemed to weigh her down. She easily took prey 15-25% of her weight as a baby, once she got on rabbits it had to be brought back down to 10-15%. Rats don't weigh her down as much but she does still get lazy the first few days on a colossal.


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I agree the schedule Bob had him on with rat pups would work but you got to remember, those schedules are going to be on the minimum side as like I mentioned, they need to try and keep them as small as they can for as long as they can simply because its easier to sell a cute 3' snake than it is to sell a 12' monster. Also there is the overhead cost as breeders are going to have to deal with probably hundreds of animals and feeding that army on a more 'filling' diet is going to up the cost a lot. That's why you see breeders having these auctions and sales. They need to move the animals asap as every day its there, its costing them money plus they probably need rack room.

And I agree also that not every animal is going to be the bottomless pit Caesar haha. You have to just learn how much food your animal needs and adjust. I mean all of our retics are a perfect example. On the more mannered side, we have Wallace and Riverrun who even when hungry, they are fairly placid. Then you have Phyllis and Caesar on the other end of the spectrum. They go bonkers and push, dig, climb, strike at stuff and even hurt themselves from pushing when they get hungry.

I still think though that a 3.5' retic should be on small rats regardless though. If for no other reason than a small rat is going to offer more nutrition with developed bones, muscle and organs vs a pup who is still suckling on mom. And by all means, if you can keep him on a small rat every 10 days or even longer with him being placid, go for it. But I'm just saying don't feed the snake the bare minimum to keep it alive because you wanted a small snake. Not that JM is doing it or anyone here. I'm just saying it as a general statement everyone. That was the reason I was worried about getting a retic to begin with. I didn't want a huge snake but I also didn't want to have to feed it just enough to keep it alive and stunt it's growth just so I could say I have a retic.

Also rats aren't as dense as rabbits. I mean when I feed Rosey rabbits, I usually tack on another week until the next feeding. I was planning on doing that with Caesar once he got on gpigs, rabbits or piglets. I figure those meals would give me a good 2 weeks between feedings before he got agitated and started being a menace to society lol. I'd love to do those 0.5lb piglets from Monster Feeders but their minimum order is 50lbs and I don't need 50lbs of piglets as I'm sure they would freezer burn or go bad before I got done with them.

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Originally Posted by Gio

Retics are still reptiles and reptiles have evolved over millions and millions of years to sustain themselves during long periods of famine. Just because something is a retic doesn't mean it is open season to give it endless food. JM and I SD x dwarf retics for a reason. They are smaller. They are from island populations that have seasonal peaks in feeding. Seasonal migration of certain bird species to those islands, mating and birth cycles of other mammals, rainy season, and other events play a role in their feeding and adult size.

Though they are more active than the average boid, they are not made up the same way as some of the colubrids that actively forage.

Feeding SD retics in theory should mimic their natural food cycles. They should have some prey variety, some variation in prey size and frequency and you as the keeper should observe their individual needs.

It is well known and stated by more than a few experts that a male SD and dwarf retic can thrive and live a long healthy life by eating 1 large rat a week. Females may take a bit more, but if you are not breeding them, there is no need to stuff any snake unless you want it big.

I'm doing just fine feeding my snake 1 small rat every 7-10 days and have had zero issues.

JM,

Find what the snake wants/needs and go from there but I'd always stay conservative.

Gerald is a beauty!!

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I agree Gio but your retic also doesn't push or turn into a terror when hungry. As I stated, every animal is going to be different. Also the statement of feeding should mimic nature is correct but that would only apply to a pure SD. Mainlands do eat more than a SD by nature to an extent. I mean there will be lean times and there will be plentiful times. There is no hard and fast etched in stone rule for feeding any animal. Every animal carries its weight different and has different needs.

Our retics are not pure SD so the you need to take that into acct. I mean Caesar is more mainland than yours which might affect his feeding wants and also how Caesar is much more laid back than Wallace. I mean if I went by the natural feeding schedule for a SD in nature, I would be taking Caesar to the vet every few weeks because his face would probably be hamburger from pushing and destroying when hungry. He already got those 2 little nicks I posted from when he was feed medium rats every 7-10 days. Heck he was hungry enough to strike at my shadow in his cage and struck the door once.

I was told by a few mainland guys that retics will and need to eat. They aren't a boa that goes a month or two between feedings or ball pythons who go months. They are retics who are more active and require more food. I take in their knowledge as well as those with SD knowledge as Caesar is a cross so what applies to a mainland wont apply to him 100% and what applies to a SD wont apply to him 100%. I try and find the happy median.

And yes, find what your individual snake needs and go with that. Take the rest of what is said by everyone as a grain of salt as the animal is in your care and you are really the only one who is reading it and knows what it needs. What I said at the first post about underfeeding and buying a male hognose if you want small etc was meant more as a joke but it seems it was taken serious lol.

All very valid points being brought up here! No two of any of our retics are the same percentage SD/Dwarf/Mainland. River is full mainland female and seems only a couple feet longer than Phyllis who is pure Super Dwarf. River seems to have a thicker build than Phyllis but that is expected given the background of the animals. Now Gerald is the newest addition to "club SD retic crosses" and has the highest percentage of both SD and mainland blood of all three of our male SD crosses. Same 50 % mainland blood as Stearns's Gene but all the rest of Gerald is super dwarf. In a few years all of these threads stand the potential to offer some really interesting insights as to how the various bloodlines affect the growth rates and overall size of these snakes. Love that we can all get together to discuss our very amazing and unique animals here and compare records. Very few other people in my life fully understand my lifelong obsession with snakes and I real enjoy getting to chat with y'all on here as much as we do!


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gio

Retics are still reptiles and reptiles have evolved over millions and millions of years to sustain themselves during long periods of famine. Just because something is a retic doesn't mean it is open season to give it endless food. JM and I SD x dwarf retics for a reason. They are smaller. They are from island populations that have seasonal peaks in feeding. Seasonal migration of certain bird species to those islands, mating and birth cycles of other mammals, rainy season, and other events play a role in their feeding and adult size.

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And this part is what I want to hit on. I didn't say it was open season on giving endless food. They need to be fed what they need to keep them healthy and 'full'.

The only pure SD out of any of us is JMs Phyllis. The rest of ours are a mix of mainland blood varying from 31% on Caesar to 20%? on Wallace. So with that said, it's going to rolling the dice to see what influence is mostly taken in. It looks like Wallace has taken more of the SD influence with him being quiet and not food driven and even refusing food in shed. Caesar seems to have taken more of the mainland influence and eats anything, anytime, anywhere and when hungry, he is more than happy to search around for dinner. Now does that mean me feeding him a large rat every 10 days is overfeeding him? Or does that mean you feeding Wallace a small rat every 7-10 days underfeeding him? It means neither as like I said, each snake is different and it will depend on the genes and the snake itself being the determining factor in how much food it needs.

And yes they are from an island where they mostly feed on the migratory birds yearly but again, this is for 100% SD. There is a reason there is no mainland ones there, they couldn't find enough food and died off. When they get hungry, they will go looking for food. I mean they are opportunistic and will eat stuff that comes by but when really hungry, they go searching. Some are more outgoing than others.

Correction, didn't know Gerald was 50% mainland.....so we got varying amounts from 50% mainland down to 20%? for Wallace.

And I totally forgot about Sterns Gene(sorry). He's like 50% dwarf and 50% mainland and the oldest yet the smallest out of all of ours lol.

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

And this part is what I want to hit on. I didn't say it was open season on giving endless food. They need to be fed what they need to keep them healthy and 'full'.

The only pure SD out of any of us is JMs Phyllis. The rest of ours are a mix of mainland blood varying from 31% on Caesar to 20%? on Wallace. So with that said, it's going to rolling the dice to see what influence is mostly taken in. It looks like Wallace has taken more of the SD influence with him being quiet and not food driven and even refusing food in shed. Caesar seems to have taken more of the mainland influence and eats anything, anytime, anywhere and when hungry, he is more than happy to search around for dinner. Now does that mean me feeding him a large rat every 10 days is overfeeding him? Or does that mean you feeding Wallace a small rat every 7-10 days underfeeding him? It means neither as like I said, each snake is different and it will depend on the genes and the snake itself being the determining factor in how much food it needs.

And yes they are from an island where they mostly feed on the migratory birds yearly but again, this is for 100% SD. There is a reason there is no mainland ones there, they couldn't find enough food and died off. When they get hungry, they will go looking for food. I mean they are opportunistic and will eat stuff that comes by but when really hungry, they go searching. Some are more outgoing than others.

Correction, didn't know Gerald was 50% mainland.....so we got varying amounts from 50% mainland down to 20%? for Wallace.

And I totally forgot about Sterns Gene(sorry). He's like 50% dwarf and 50% mainland and the oldest yet the smallest out of all of ours lol.

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Just offered Gerald a small f/t rat and no dice. Just sat curled up behind his warm hide and then tucked his head in his coils. I think he just needs time to settle and maybe a live first food offering in his new home. Bob didn't specify live or f/t. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...cd46b8ef1a.jpg

And if I remember correctly I think Gene is 25/25/50 SD/D/mainland. I'd have to dig through the threads to see


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

I agree Gio but your retic also doesn't push or turn into a terror when hungry. As I stated, every animal is going to be different. Also the statement of feeding should mimic nature is correct but that would only apply to a pure SD. Mainlands do eat more than a SD by nature to an extent. I mean there will be lean times and there will be plentiful times. There is no hard and fast etched in stone rule for feeding any animal. Every animal carries its weight different and has different needs.

Our retics are not pure SD so the you need to take that into acct. I mean Caesar is more mainland than yours which might affect his feeding wants and also how Caesar is much more laid back than Wallace. I mean if I went by the natural feeding schedule for a SD in nature, I would be taking Caesar to the vet every few weeks because his face would probably be hamburger from pushing and destroying when hungry. He already got those 2 little nicks I posted from when he was feed medium rats every 7-10 days. Heck he was hungry enough to strike at my shadow in his cage and struck the door once.

I was told by a few mainland guys that retics will and need to eat. They aren't a boa that goes a month or two between feedings or ball pythons who go months. They are retics who are more active and require more food. I take in their knowledge as well as those with SD knowledge as Caesar is a cross so what applies to a mainland wont apply to him 100% and what applies to a SD wont apply to him 100%. I try and find the happy median.

And yes, find what your individual snake needs and go with that. Take the rest of what is said by everyone as a grain of salt as the animal is in your care and you are really the only one who is reading it and knows what it needs. What I said at the first post about underfeeding and buying a male hognose if you want small etc was meant more as a joke but it seems it was taken serious lol.

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Your original post was taken as a "come on guys, you're starving your snakes feed them" comment. I guess I thought you were being serious when you made that comment. Typical of internet posting and misunderstanding. I should have known that as we discussed this before.

When there is mainland blood in them, it can be nullified a great deal due to the amount of SD and Dwarf especially in JM's case. However pushing the food may or may not turn it the other way and then you ruined the purpose of the SD or dwarf.

If feeding Caesar solves your pushing problems, by all means feed him, but there are MANY reasons snakes will push. My carpet does it often and it has zero relation to food. I too mentioned "individualism" as every snake will be different so we obviously agree on that.

I have a good friend that has kept loads of retics, mostly high end, mainland species and he has had most of his males stay in the 12'-14' and lean because of his feeding.

Just like with boas and other snakes, YouTube shows a ton of out of shape, fat retics that should have beed fed less over the years.

Caesar may grow fast initially and slow down a lot after two years. It is fairly common so you may end up leveling him out and large rats maybe his final weekly sized meal. Or you may have the snake that takes on full mainland attributes and you wind up with a giant. Hopefully not.

For people maybe looking to get into retics, especially the SDs or SD x dwarf combos, they should understand its not all about food. Just because they will eat, doesn't mean they need to eat. For folks looking at owning a smaller sized retic, a good, healthy approach to the diet is part of it. If you push it, the end result may not be what they want.

There are many factors, and I don't have all the answers or the experience to claim expert status. I'd venture there are few true experts.

I misunderstood your post and thought you were inferring I was underfeeding which isn't the case.

Its all good.

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Originally Posted by Gio

Your original post was taken as a "come on guys, you're starving your snakes feed them" comment. I guess I thought you were being serious when you made that comment. Typical of internet posting and misunderstanding. I should have known that as we discussed this before.

When there is mainland blood in them, it can be nullified a great deal due to the amount of SD and Dwarf especially in JM's case. However pushing the food may or may not turn it the other way and then you ruined the purpose of the SD or dwarf.

If feeding Caesar solves your pushing problems, by all means feed him, but there are MANY reasons snakes will push. My carpet does it often and it has zero relation to food. I too mentioned "individualism" as every snake will be different so we obviously agree on that.

I have a good friend that has kept loads of retics, mostly high end, mainland species and he has had most of his males stay in the 12'-14' and lean because of his feeding.

Just like with boas and other snakes, YouTube shows a ton of out of shape, fat retics that should have beed fed less over the years.

Caesar may grow fast initially and slow down a lot after two years. It is fairly common so you may end up leveling him out and large rats maybe his final weekly sized meal. Or you may have the snake that takes on full mainland attributes and you wind up with a giant. Hopefully not.

For people maybe looking to get into retics, especially the SDs or SD x dwarf combos, they should understand its not all about food. Just because they will eat, doesn't mean they need to eat. For folks looking at owning a smaller sized retic, a good, healthy approach to the diet is part of it. If you push it, the end result may not be what they want.

There are many factors, and I don't have all the answers or the experience to claim expert status. I'd venture there are few true experts.

I misunderstood your post and thought you were inferring I was underfeeding which isn't the case.

Its all good.

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Yes it was a joke.

And as for growth. I mean this is a perfect example. Caesar and Wallace. Caesar was fed small rats every 4-5 days, then medium rats every week and now large rats every 10 days. You feed Wallace a small rat every 7-10 days. Now with this different of feeding, both our snakes are the same size, about 5'. And yours is actually more dwarf than mine while mine is more mainland than yours. While I think food plays a good chunk of the snakes overall size, I think a lot of it also plays into the genetics and whether said snake takes on the attributes of mainland or SD. I personally would say it's a 50/50 mix.

And yeah I always go back to this for info from Cody. https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...nd-Information

And yes people looking for a smaller retic should just go 100% kalatoa. The introduction of dwarf and mainland blood is kind of a roll of the dice from what I've read as it depends how much of that blood the snakes 'uses' for lack of a better word in it's growth. As for the food, yes feed it as much as needed to keep it quiet and healthy. Not every snake is going to be the same and some react quite different to hunger as like I said, you see a huge difference in Caesar and Phyllis vs Riverrun and Wallace when it comes to wanting food.

And I'm jealous JM, I like that Ultra Ivory and you might be lucky and have one that isn't food driven like Caesar. Lol and heck, even after eating those rats last night, today I slide the doors open on Rosey and Vicky to stir their Eco Earth so it doesn't stay wet and packed down. I stand up and there is Caesar with his head popped out of his hide staring right at me lol. He is such a curious snake. Guess he felt the movement of the cages below and wanted to know what was up even with a full belly.

Oh and I forgot to add, Your snake is also a month younger than mine as Caesar was born 5-18 and Wallace was born June, yet they are the same size even with the age difference and feeding difference. Lol maybe you will end up with the bigger snake if Wallace uses more of his dwarf and mainland genes over Caesar haha. Wouldn't that be a kick in the pants. Think all of us would be floored lol.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

Yes it was a joke.

And as for growth. I mean this is a perfect example. Caesar and Wallace. Caesar was fed small rats every 4-5 days, then medium rats every week and now large rats every 10 days. You feed Wallace a small rat every 7-10 days. Now with this different of feeding, both our snakes are the same size, about 5'. And yours is actually more dwarf than mine while mine is more mainland than yours. While I think food plays a good chunk of the snakes overall size, I think a lot of it also plays into the genetics and whether said snake takes on the attributes of mainland or SD. I personally would say it's a 50/50 mix.

And yeah I always go back to this for info from Cody. https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...nd-Information

And yes people looking for a smaller retic should just go 100% kalatoa. The introduction of dwarf and mainland blood is kind of a roll of the dice from what I've read as it depends how much of that blood the snakes 'uses' for lack of a better word in it's growth. As for the food, yes feed it as much as needed to keep it quiet and healthy. Not every snake is going to be the same and some react quite different to hunger as like I said, you see a huge difference in Caesar and Phyllis vs Riverrun and Wallace when it comes to wanting food.

And I'm jealous JM, I like that Ultra Ivory and you might be lucky and have one that isn't food driven like Caesar. Lol and heck, even after eating those rats last night, today I slide the doors open on Rosey and Vicky to stir their Eco Earth so it doesn't stay wet and packed down. I stand up and there is Caesar with his head popped out of his hide staring right at me lol. He is such a curious snake. Guess he felt the movement of the cages below and wanted to know what was up even with a full belly.

Oh and I forgot to add, Your snake is also a month younger than mine as Caesar was born 5-18 and Wallace was born June, yet they are the same size even with the age difference and feeding difference. Lol maybe you will end up with the bigger snake if Wallace uses more of his dwarf and mainland genes over Caesar haha. Wouldn't that be a kick in the pants. Think all of us would be floored lol.

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Wallace is actually only about 13 days younger, and I'm guessing about 4' 10". June 1st 2017 will be his one year mark. I also fed him larger prey sooner than you did. You had recently upsized and upsized again and increased frequency. Caesar looks larger, and a thicker but its difficult to tell from photos. Wallace still fits in out royal python's baby hide so he's by no means big.

When you have the mainland blood, I feel the feeding will play a role and could influence which direction the snake will go. Cody's videos talk about it and he stated if you need a smaller snake get a male and he doesn't discourage "maintenance mode" feeding.

Anyhow, I'm not trying to start an argument here.

The thread is about JM's new, and beautiful retic. Every keeper should feed how the way that is best for their snake, and if they are looking for a healthy, "maintenance style" feeding schedule they should use it if the snake responds well.

JM,

Pop up a few more pictures and get this thread back where it should be!

BTW I think the quarantine cage looks pretty well set up.

Have fun with that guy!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gio

JM,

Pop up a few more pictures and get this thread back where it should be!

BTW I think the quarantine cage looks pretty well set up.

Have fun with that guy!

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As requested here are more pics from earlier!
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...decb75df90.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...560d06161b.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...ea1c21900c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...a96533d09a.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...81fe7cd688.jpg
He's absolutely jaw dropping in person. These pics do no justice. And he's a quick mover so they aren't the best quality pictures.
I'm going to give him another week to settle in before I offer food again unless he starts getting really pushy. Might offer a live mouse if he turns down f/t again next week. I have a feeling Bob probably fed live prey, rather than thaw rats for hundreds of snakes.


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Originally Posted by jmcrook

As requested here are more pics from earlier!
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He's absolutely jaw dropping in person. These pics do no justice. And he's a quick mover so they aren't the best quality pictures.
I'm going to give him another week to settle in before I offer food again unless he starts getting really pushy. Might offer a live mouse if he turns down f/t again next week. I have a feeling Bob probably fed live prey, rather than thaw rats for hundreds of snakes.


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Now that is the mature body type of a well maintained retic. He looks lighting fast and lean.

Wallace has nowhere near that muscle tone yet.

You'll have to snap a few outdoor pictures when things warm up and he's settled in.

I'm sure the pattern/coloring is crazy when seen in person.

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Originally Posted by Gio

Now that is the mature body type of a well maintained retic. He looks lighting fast and lean.

Wallace has nowhere near that muscle tone yet.

You'll have to snap a few outdoor pictures when things warm up and he's settled in.

I'm sure the pattern/coloring is crazy when seen in person.

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Lightning fast for sure! He sat in my hand for maybe 3 seconds out of the bag before he tried to make a run for it.
I feel like his muscle tone is more noticeable due to his lack of pattern and fairly even coloration, though Phyllis's muscle tone is getting more and more defined and noticeable even with her busy pattern. Gerald is definitely comparably toned at barely more than half Phyllis's size though.
Can't wait to get pics in natural light! He's going to look amazing


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Beautiful snake! Congrats!

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

And this part is what I want to hit on. I didn't say it was open season on giving endless food. They need to be fed what they need to keep them healthy and 'full'.

The only pure SD out of any of us is JMs Phyllis. The rest of ours are a mix of mainland blood varying from 31% on Caesar to 20%? on Wallace. So with that said, it's going to rolling the dice to see what influence is mostly taken in. It looks like Wallace has taken more of the SD influence with him being quiet and not food driven and even refusing food in shed. Caesar seems to have taken more of the mainland influence and eats anything, anytime, anywhere and when hungry, he is more than happy to search around for dinner. Now does that mean me feeding him a large rat every 10 days is overfeeding him? Or does that mean you feeding Wallace a small rat every 7-10 days underfeeding him? It means neither as like I said, each snake is different and it will depend on the genes and the snake itself being the determining factor in how much food it needs.

And yes they are from an island where they mostly feed on the migratory birds yearly but again, this is for 100% SD. There is a reason there is no mainland ones there, they couldn't find enough food and died off. When they get hungry, they will go looking for food. I mean they are opportunistic and will eat stuff that comes by but when really hungry, they go searching. Some are more outgoing than others.

Correction, didn't know Gerald was 50% mainland.....so we got varying amounts from 50% mainland down to 20%? for Wallace.

And I totally forgot about Sterns Gene(sorry). He's like 50% dwarf and 50% mainland and the oldest yet the smallest out of all of ours lol.

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Gene is 25%SD & 25%Jamp. It really is interesting to see the difference in all of ours. I have Gene eating (1) medium rat once a week, and sometimes he will have a small rat after if Tina (Ball Python) skips hers. He doesn't push much at all, however he will reject food from the 1st signs of shed until its complete.

Does SD/D mean Super Dwarf crossed with Dwarf?

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Originally Posted by cletus

Does SD/D mean Super Dwarf crossed with Dwarf?

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Yeah any of our SD/D/etc abbreviations are just saying what genetic backgrounds are involved in our respective critters.


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Originally Posted by cletus

Does SD/D mean Super Dwarf crossed with Dwarf?

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Yes, to get a any morph except normal in a SD, you have to cross it with dwarf/mainland. The only morph for SD I believe is anery.

On a different note, I did find out a couple guys have some cow and pied SD eggs due this year!! My plans of a BCC might change depending how much a hatchling SD pied or SD cow go for lol. Well I'm pretty sure the cow is out as normal cows go for like $6k but a SD pied might be more affordable lol.

Gerald has been pretty quiet and secretive since he got here but I do hear him cruising around at night (his quarantine cage is in the bedroom). Got a few shots of him curled up at the front of the cage last night
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Hoping he's settling in well. I'm picking up a new batch of rats, pups and weans for Gerald and large for Phyllis, this upcoming Friday so hopefully his appetite in action next weekend.


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Beautiful!

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Had him out for about a minute earlier while I was cleaning up his couple of urates from last night and his eyes seem to have gone a bit cloudy. May be starting his first shed here. If so I can't wait to see how bright he is with a fresh new paint job!


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My girlfriend sent me this pic while I was at work. Haven't gotten home yet but excited to see Gerald's new skin after I get some rest! More Pics this afternoon
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Originally Posted by jmcrook

My girlfriend sent me this pic while I was at work. Haven't gotten home yet but excited to see Gerald's new skin after I get some rest! More Pics this afternoon
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...57469323c6.jpg


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Oh yeah take some pictures with his new suit on!

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Originally Posted by jmcrook

My girlfriend sent me this pic while I was at work. Haven't gotten home yet but excited to see Gerald's new skin after I get some rest! More Pics this afternoon
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...57469323c6.jpg


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Looking forward to some update pictures.

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As promised here's Gerald in his sharp new suit! Calm as could be too. Scooped him up and he just sat in my hand for maybe 20 minutes
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Thawing a rat right now to see if he's gotten more of an appetite after having shed and pooped last night.


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Good lord the feeding response on this animal is intense! Shot out of his hide and across the cage past the rat just waving his open mouth wildly! Did the "face sucker" move that Sauzo's Caesar does too haha. Bon appetite Gerald! https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...fd65dc3355.jpg


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Originally Posted by jmcrook

Good lord the feeding response on this animal is intense! Shot out of his hide and across the cage past the rat just waving his open mouth wildly! Did the "face sucker" move that Sauzo's Caesar does too haha. Bon appetite Gerald! https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...fd65dc3355.jpg


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Damn, awesome looking. And haha, you got a mini Caesar!! Wait until he gets older and more used to you. Then he wont be the lap snake. Caesar was the calm lap snake as a baby. Now I take him out and he does nothing but tries to get into trouble. He reaches up and touches the ceiling to find something to grab. If that fails he stretches out and finds something to grab. And if all else fails, he climbs down my leg lol. He was such a quiet baby.

And the facehugger thing is awesome haha unless you get caught by it. Caesar has mellowed out some. I think he finally hit a growth lull as last night I fed him his weekly rat and he crept up on it like a ninja and then snagged it. He didn't do the 'omg I'm starving!!' facehugger flail for anything he can latch onto lol.

I love the yellow and white snakes. You are coming to the morph darkside young padawon!!! :gj: Next thing you will be trying to donate bodily fluid to afford that SD cow or SD pied :bow:

Also have to say, I do like Phyllis but I like Gerald much more. I'm just a morph junky and especially for whitish snakes lol. I kind of want a snowglow boa haha. One that keeps the high white or now you got me wondering about an ultra Ivory SD!!! >:(

Oh and one more thing, have I told you I hate you yet? You should have told me about the auction for Gerald before it ended!! Much hate!!! :D

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

Oh and one more thing, have I told you I hate you yet? You should have told me about the auction for Gerald before it ended!! Much hate!!! :D

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Lol then I wouldn't have this snake now would I? I'll take the hate if it means getting to own this totally unreal looking snake haha
[emoji38][emoji216]

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Originally Posted by jmcrook

Lol then I wouldn't have this snake now would I? I'll take the hate if it means getting to own this totally unreal looking snake haha
[emoji38][emoji216]

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Haha maybe true. I'd be bidding while pumping out bodily fluid and blood for sale :D Would be telling the nurse 'ok if pass out, just keep bidding on this snake for me and siphoning the blood!!!'

Really nice. Those yellows pop right after shed. Sweet!

And if he's anything like Caesar, when he gets fired up, those yellows should get really bright.

Hats off to you jmc. I was just catching up on Phyllis' thread and now seeing Gerald's thread I'm just blown away. They are both magnificent specimens. All of you guys have some really amazing retics. Very impressive indeed. :bow:

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Originally Posted by EL-Ziggy

Hats off to you jmc. I was just catching up on Phyllis' thread and now seeing Gerald's thread I'm just blown away. They are both magnificent specimens. All of you guys have some really amazing retics. Very impressive indeed. :bow:

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Thank you Ziggy! I'm quite smitten with all of my critters regardless of their occasional tempers haha. You've got some stellar snakes yourself. How are the olive and the albino carpet doing? That olive is going to be a sight to behold at 10+ feet


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Originally Posted by Sauzo

And if he's anything like Caesar, when he gets fired up, those yellows should get really bright.

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Oh man... if it's anything like Phyllis then he'll be positively on fire in a day or two. She absolutely glows about a day or two after feeding. I imagine she's going to look good having eaten a solid large rat for the first time today


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This snake is just so cool. Had a couple short handling sessions with him now and he's been very calm. Ate Friday, gave him yesterday to chill out and start digesting and just now had him out for 10 minutes or so. Very curious but not nearly as flighty as he was right out of the bag.
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Big, bold and beautiful ! ;)

Good looking little man. And he sounds like Caesar.

Got a couple pics of Gerald in some natural light by the back door the other day. Can't wait for warmer weather to get some outdoor pictures.
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Got a weight on him a little bit ago because he pooed out his small rat last night. 474grams empty. I think I'll feed again tonight because I'm leaving town for about 5 days on Wednesday and don't want him to be too hungry and I think he'll do all of his bathroom business before Wednesday if he eats tonight. Don't want him wallowing in his filth haha


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Originally Posted by jmcrook

Got a couple pics of Gerald in some natural light by the back door the other day. Can't wait for warmer weather to get some outdoor pictures.
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Got a weight on him a little bit ago because he pooed out his small rat last night. 474grams empty. I think I'll feed again tonight because I'm leaving town for about 5 days on Wednesday and don't want him to be too hungry and I think he'll do all of his bathroom business before Wednesday if he eats tonight. Don't want him wallowing in his filth haha


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He's looking really good, not going to lie I'm jealous.

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I've concluded that Gerald will sit absolutely still for as long as possible providing he has a sturdy coil around something to make him feel secure. So much less gogogo than Phyllis. I think I got a lounger like Caesar, Sauzo haha!
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Sat like this for probably 15 minutes without moving.
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Was coiled around my shoulder like this earlier and probably would have sat there all night had I not unwound him to put him back in his cage.


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Haha, Caesar isn't a lounger anymore. He was when he was a baby and fairly new. Now he is a spazz that always wants to check stuff out. I usually just take him out and sit on the bed as his new fun now is to climb all over me like I'm a tree and explore the bed and then come back to 'the tree'. I do think he recognizes me though now as when I come up to his cage and stare in, if he sees me, he pops right out and comes up to the front of the cage like he's greeting me.....or seeing he's grown large enough to eat me yet haha.

Caesar used to coil up on me too. Just wait lol. Once he gets used to you and has some food in him, he will probably spazz out like Caesar and constantly try to get on things or stand straight up in the air and look at the ceiling. Although I am still lucky in that I haven't been pee'd, poo'd or bitten yet lol. So far he's a good boy in that respect. Just getting him to sit still for more than a minute or two is almost impossible. It's like a kid who learns how to walk.

And dang, I think he looks fatter than Caesar haha. You got a little porker on your hands ;)