Need Opinion - Adam or anyone else????

OK, just got off the phone with the vet, and he talked with me for about 20 minutes, and he said that he seriously doubts that the snake has parasites, because "these little guys are thoroughly checked", but since I have a stool sample, to drop it off this afternoon (he's leaving at 3) and he will check it in the morning for parasites, but in the meantime, wants me to have Kashmire on 2 ML of Pedialite (sp?) 2 x a day and then try to re-feed on Friday.

At this point he said he doesn't need to see him in person. Should I look for another vet?

Just a reminder, this is about Kashmire who regurgitated his hopper after 2 days. He has gained 4 grams since then and is still drinking water.

He said he doesn't get too concerned over one regurgitation, that if it was repeated, then he would want to see him in person, but for now to do the Pedialite dosages and leave him the fecal.

Good information, or should I look for someone who has more herp knowledge? He "seemed" to be very knowledgeable, but the not needing to actually see the snake seemed odd to me.

Robin

IMO, your vet isn't someone that deals with large numbers of ball pythons. He sounds to me like he is repeating things taught to him in school. Not that there's anything wrong with that at all, but if you'd like another opinon from someone far less educated, he it goes ....

CH ball pythons are NEVER "thoroughly checked". That is entirely incorrect. I've been around the industry long enough to say that with great confidence. They are sold, bagged, and shipped .... sold, bagged, and shipped ... over and over. That chances of them picking up a parasite through transferrance along the way is certainly possible.

And for me, one regurg is one too many for a baby ball python. I produce dozens every year and never see regurgs. It's just not something that is common. On the rare times I have seen them, 99% of the time, either temps or parasites are the cause.

The pedialite will be fine if you're just going to add it to the drinking water, but tubbing or administering it manually would be way too stressful if you ask me.

Get the fecal done (ask if he's sending it out or doing it in house) and see what he says .... I'd still wait a week to 10 days before offering food.

I would certainly feel no rush in getting food into your snake ... I've had hatchlings go as much as 16 weeks before taking their first meal. Unless there is an underlying illness, time is on your side.

What are your temps again?

-adam

Adam,

Temps are 80-82 on cool side and 90 to 92 on warm side. Humidity stays between 50 and 60%.

He "seemed" knowledgeable about baby balls (except about the part of them being thoroughly checked out), and he's going to do the fecal in-house tomorrow morning and call me.

Do you think that would be sufficient to at least rule OUT internal parasites?

Unfortunately, I'm going out of town for a week on Saturday (but Kashmire will be cared for by my boyfriend), so I'm running out of time on getting vet appointments. I actually have an appointment with another vet at 6:15 tomorrow evening, but had called this one too, to see if they were closer to me, and the vet tech answering the phone said the vet wanted to actually speak to me first.

Robin

Adam,


He also said to administer the pedialite by putting a drop on the tip of his nose and when he flicks his tongue and tastes it to see if he takes more.

If I put in water as you suggest, what ratio would you suggest? I have no clue!

Thanks for all your help, I just want to make sure that I take the best care of this guy that I can!

Robin

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rabernet

He also said to administer the pedialite by putting a drop on the tip of his nose and when he flicks his tongue and tastes it to see if he takes more.

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LOL ... find a new vet fast ... have him do the fecal, but search around and see if you can find anyone else. That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. You did tell him it was a ball python and not a puppy right?

Honestly, I have no clue about the ratio in water, I was hoping that is what your vet suggested. The tip of the nose thing is a whole new one on me!!! :P

I've only used pedialite on extremely sick animals. I really don't think you are there at all. If your snake does not seem lethargic and has nice tight skin, in my humble opinion, I don't think it needs anything but water and a little time.

I really hate to suggest that you go against the advice of a vet, they are really the experts and I'm just a little ball python goober .... but hearing some of this advice really blows my mind!

-adam

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Do you think that would be sufficient to at least rule OUT internal parasites?

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Yes, I do. If the parasites are bad enough to cause a regurg, a blind person would be able to tell ... probably just from a smear.

I actually agree with the vet that seeing the snake won't help much. Many vets want to get you for the office visit just to have a fecal done, so this guy is doing you right .... I just think the information he's giving you is about 20 years out of date .... We know so much more about ball pythons today than when most of the text books used in veterinary schools were written that unless the doctor is spending time specifically keeping current on reptile medicine, he may just not know any better. I don't think that he's necessarily "bad", but he's probably not a "reptile" person.

-adam

I hate to even post in this thread but wanted to say this. Our vet clinic is excellent and having called them over time about various types of pets, they may give some advice but generally always encourage that the animal be brought in as they do not like to diagnose over the phone. I think is very responsible of them. As far as the one vet there who does snakes, she encourages a baseline health check-up (and sexing if needed), so she has basic information in case later on the snake goes downhill for some reason.

Personally, I've never had a vet that, if I was concerned enough about one of my pets to phone, told me that they didn't need to see my pet and left me to nurse the pet at home knowing I wasn't experienced with that type of creature. That would kind of put me off a vet quite honestly.

Btw how in heck do you dab pedi-lite on a snake's nose??? Geesh they tend to be headshy to start with, can't imagine it would work all that well but then what do I know LOL.

~~Jo~~

Adam,


He did ask me if he was lethargic, and he's not. He does the normal ball hanging out in the warm side hide (or sometimes hangs out in the corner of the cool side, but not in that hide). If I ever need to go inside the enclosure, I gently touch his side just to let him know I'm there (after all, you can't really tell if they are asleep LOL).

He's a wonderfully docile animal that does not ball up when held, but will lay comfortably in my hand, tongue flicking and will do some "calesthenics" around my hand.

Tomorrow will be two weeks since I've had him. Do you think that if the fecal comes back clean, that maybe he needs even more time to acclimate?

When he comes out, he cruises around, dips his head in his water dish and drinks, goes in and out of the water, but never really soaks. He never seems "frantic" in his evening explorations, just curious (but what do I know? LOL). He cruises in and out of his hides goes about 1/2 way up the glass (he can reach all the way up, but doesn't do that any more).

I would love to call you and talk in person, but don't want to inconvenience you. You've been such an invaluable resource (as have so many others on this forum).

One other thing, can snakes hear? I do speak to him, but as I don't see any visible place where hearing could happen, I don't know.

Robin

Robin,

give me a call ... 301-922-4959 .... I'm eating lunch, so I'll be chewing in your ear, but it's easier than all this typing!! :P

-adam

Oh, one other question (I'm sure I'll have more, as you've certainly figured out by now).

If this fecal comes back clean, do you think I should still keep the appointment with the other vet tomorrow, minus the fecal? What do they normally check in a "wellness" exam? Or should I wait and have him seen later?

And what is the pedialyte for? To re-build the enzymes? I got the "unflavored" kind, as I don't know if they taste flavors anyway, and if I put it in his water, then I figured no flavor at all would be better. Otherwise, I would have gotten bubblegum flavored! hehehehe!

Robin

Adam,

THANK YOU for taking the time to talk with me this afternoon. It was a great pleasure!

One last question of the day, since you know I'm obsessive. You've seen the pictures that I posted of Kashmire, and he looks the same today regarding his girth (but he did gain 4 grams even after the regurg). Although he's a little thin, he doesn't look TOO thin to you, does he?

Once we get over this hump, the regular weekly feeding will get him up to a good weight.

Thanks again!

Robin

Jo,

After talking with Adam, I'm going to let him do the fecal to at least rule out parasites, and to keep the stress level down on Kash for now, I'm not going to take him to another vet the following day (I need to call to cancel that appointment).

There is one vet that I would like to be his regular vet, that is currently out of town. He is actually a consulting vet to Zoo Atlanta's reptile collection.

Robin

That sounds great Robin and I'm sure the conversation with Adam was a huge help as you must be a bit worried by this point. That other vet sounds like a great solution once he's back from holidays.

Hope all goes very well for you and your snake.


~~Jo~~

Jo,

The "deposit" was covertly delivered this afternoon to the back door! LOL

Seriously though, the vet tech that was closing up waited for me to get there after they closed and told me to knock on the window so she'd know I was there, and she'd put the sample in the fridge for him to test in the morning.

Adam was a wonderful help and did make me feel more comfortable, being a new ball python owner. I don't even know that I'm going to even do the Pedialite though, since the point of it was to build up electrolytes, and Kashmire won't be offered food again until a week from this coming Sunday and Monday and will have plenty of time to build them up naturally.

Robin

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

LOL ... find a new vet fast ... have him do the fecal, but search around and see if you can find anyone else. That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. You did tell him it was a ball python and not a puppy right?
-adam

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Well said
Rusty