RI or what?

So, extremely confused and stressed out. My 2 1/2 year old ball python has been having RI pretty much every year. I keep the temps and humidity perfect. Also every time I go the vet always says it doesn't look like a RI because she has no mucus build up. Only whistling or the odd wheeze. I don't hear her often. Maybe once a week or less. I'm starting to think maybe that's just how she is. Is there anything else it could possibly be? I will be taking her for another culture. Just trying to avoid as much stress as possible for her. Otherwise she seems fine. Just frustrated with the noises she's making without a correct answer. I will be posting pictures of the inside of her mouth in a little bit. Waiting for a friend to come and help


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And is it possible that she could just be like that


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https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...66d04c0c5d.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...60938ca857.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...ffe0ae076c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...f5a5c300de.jpg


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Her airway and nostrils are clear


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If you've done cultures and tests in the past and the vet says it isn't RI, it's probably not an RI. Many things can cause wheezes. Shedding, dusty bedding, smoke (whether from incense or cigarettes), general activity (they get out of breath, too), etc.

Maybe it's just me but that looks pretty bubbly at the back of the throat. If you had a culture done and it was good, then I don't know. How well do you trust this vet? Maybe find another exotic vet and call them and find out their experience with reptiles and maybe get a culture done with them?

My vet always does cultures and really doesn't like to throw antibiotics at my reptiles unless they are really sick which in that case she will prescribe a wide spectrum one until the culture comes back and then switch if needed. I trust her though as she saved Allie from dying from PAM and has treated Rosey for a sinus infection and Harley for RI.

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

Maybe it's just me but that looks pretty bubbly at the back of the throat. If you had a culture done and it was good, then I don't know. How well do you trust this vet? Maybe find another exotic vet and call them and find out their experience with reptiles and maybe get a culture done with them?

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I'm worried about stressing her out long term from having multiple lung washes. :/


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Originally Posted by Sauzo

Maybe it's just me but that looks pretty bubbly at the back of the throat. If you had a culture done and it was good, then I don't know. How well do you trust this vet? Maybe find another exotic vet and call them and find out their experience with reptiles and maybe get a culture done with them?

My vet always does cultures and really doesn't like to throw antibiotics at my reptiles unless they are really sick which in that case she will prescribe a wide spectrum one until the culture comes back and then switch if needed. I trust her though as she saved Allie from dying from PAM and has treated Rosey for a sinus infection and Harley for RI.

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Plus idk why I'll check her mouth it'll be clear and the next it'll be bubbly :(


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I hear ya. I mean if you trust the vet, then go with that. Maybe bump up the temp a few degrees and the humidity and wait a week or 2 to see if the noise goes away. If not, I would probably get a culture done by another vet. Stress sucks but a full blown advanced RI that turns into pneumonia is a lot worse. And wait until you have to give shots every other day to your snake lol. I had to do that for Rosey for a month. Was really easy for her as she is 7' but for a small snake, I would be freakin out that I would stick the needle too far and hurt them. Luckily my vet will do shots for free as long as I bring the animal in every 3 days but its a long drive for me so I learned to do it myself haha.

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Originally Posted by Medduussa

Plus idk why I'll check her mouth it'll be clear and the next it'll be bubbly :(


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Yeah the bubbly part is what makes me wonder. I've been told that is an early indicator of RI. Doesn't have to be all thick and sticky. It can also be bubbly and prevalent like your guy. But I mean, bump the temps up a few degrees to get his immune system into overdrive and bump the humidity up some and see if his body clears it up on its own. If it doesn't in a week or 2, I would consider a second opinion like I said.

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

Yeah the bubbly part is what makes me wonder. I've been told that is an early indicator of RI. Doesn't have to be all thick and sticky. It can also be bubbly and prevalent like your guy. But I mean, bump the temps up a few degrees to get his immune system into overdrive and bump the humidity up some and see if his body clears it up on its own. If it doesn't in a week or 2, I would consider a second opinion like I said.

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Yeah, I talked to the vet earlier today. And she said that the best way to test for it is a lung wash. I'm unsure if I should go with a lung wash or a different type of procedure


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Originally Posted by Medduussa

Yeah, I talked to the vet earlier today. And she said that the best way to test for it is a lung wash. I'm unsure if I should go with a lung wash or a different type of procedure


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Well, I've never had to deal with RI in a snake but I did have to deal with it a couple times in beardies. In those cases they did cultures by just swabbing the bubbly area. With Rosey who got a sinus infection, my vet just took a sample of the fluid from the lump on her nose with a needle and checked that. So I really cant help there. I mean I would assume a lung wash would be the best but that sounds painful and complex. I mean with all those bubbles and saliva at the back of the throat on your snake, I would imagine a vet could swab that and culture it and see what grows and know from there. That combined with the wheezing should be pretty clear to an experienced vet if they have dealt with snakes and reptiles a lot. The key would be finding what exactly the RI is be it fungal, bacterial or viral and then finding out what 'germ' it is to find out what it is most susceptible to in antibiotics as any antibiotic is harsh for reptiles. Poor Rosey had watery piss and wasn't her outgoing self while on antibiotics. But once her sinus infection was cleared up and she was off antibiotics, she returned to her loving and hungry self :D

I'm no vet but personally if the snake was mine and I wasn't sure about my vet, I would get a second opinion. I would check my local herp club or zoos and talk to their reptile keepers and find out who they recommend or use for their vets. My herp club has 3 recommended vets one of which is the one I've used for the past 3 years. She has always been spot on with talking care of my gals and guys and does follow up calls and check ups and stuff. A good vet is worth their weight in gold :)

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

I'm no vet but personally if the snake was mine and I wasn't sure about my vet, I would get a second opinion. I would check my local herp club or zoos and talk to their reptile keepers and find out who they recommend or use for their vets. My herp club has 3 recommended vets one of which is the one I've used for the past 3 years. She has always been spot on with talking care of my gals and guys and does follow up calls and check ups and stuff. A good vet is worth their weight in gold :)

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I've taken her to two vets recently, I enjoy the one I have now. But it's just insanely frustrating because when I went there last over a month ago my vet checked her over, there was nothing in her lungs, airway or nasal passage. Just the saliva. I put her on meds, but she hasn't gotten better or worse. I hear her whistle like maybe every few weeks, and it's never consistent just a few whistles at night. It's just over the past month she hasn't gotten worse. So it's just frustrating :( I think I'll go through with the lung wash and if it comes back clear I guess she's just weird


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Have you had a fecal done? Maybe she has parasites that are lowering her immune system and when she gets stressed or husbandry goes a little off, her immune system cant fight the RI and it takes over.

If it was me, I would raise the temps a few degrees, bump up the humidity some and talk to your local herp club, reptile animal rescue and zoo and find out who they recommend. That will kill some time for you to see if the wheezing goes away. If not, then I would call who they recommend and tell them the issues you are having and how you have gone to 3 vets already and they couldn't find anything wrong but your snake is still wheezing and it has bubbly saliva at the back of its throat and that he/she comes recommended from X. X being the zoo or herp club or reptile rescue.

I'm just not sure about the lung wash. It just sounds painful to me lol.

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

Have you had a fecal done? Maybe she has parasites that are lowering her immune system and when she gets stressed or husbandry goes a little off, her immune system cant fight the RI and it takes over.

If it was me, I would raise the temps a few degrees, bump up the humidity some and talk to your local herp club, reptile animal rescue and zoo and find out who they recommend. That will kill some time for you to see if the wheezing goes away. If not, then I would call who they recommend and tell them the issues you are having and how you have gone to 3 vets already and they couldn't find anything wrong but your snake is still wheezing and it has bubbly saliva at the back of its throat and that he/she comes recommended from X. X being the zoo or herp club or reptile rescue.

I'm just not sure about the lung wash. It just sounds painful to me lol.

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The vet said a lung wash is the most sufficient way to see if there's an issue. And yes I did one a few months back when I heard her for the first time this winter. There was nothing, but at the same time I'm unsure how she would get any kind of parasites since then, but idk how they get them. Yeah it's not pleasurable I'm sure; I just emailed another vet about an opinion!


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I was told that the bacteria is all around us but our immune system keeps them in check. Now if our immune system gets compromised by stress, cold, heat or basically anything that causes our immune system to weaken, then the bacteria can run rampant which give you the RI. When my beardie got a RI, I asked the vet how she got it as I am immaculate about washing her bath towels every week as that's her substrate and F10SC her cage every week and stuff like that. She told me that that certain bacteria is found in dirt a lot so it could have come from veggies or if I had it on my hand and she licked my hand or licked something outside the cage. Then she could have gotten stressed from a night of being cold or being too hot or whatever and bam, she was sick. My vet said the main root causes of that stuff are husbandry issues. As long as you keep the temps, humidity and stuff correct, their bodies will generally fight off that stuff just like in the wild.

Well hopefully the new vet knows stuff. I still would find out who your herp club or zoo uses as they have thousands of dollars worth of animals and are going to find the best vet. Plus from a herp club, you can find out who not to go to also as with a bigger collective, you will get much more knowledgeable info from people who experienced it first hand and can save you the money and headache :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

I was told that the bacteria is all around us but our immune system keeps them in check. Now if our immune system gets compromised by stress, cold, heat or basically anything that causes our immune system to weaken, then the bacteria can run rampant which give you the RI. When my beardie got a RI, I asked the vet how she got it as I am immaculate about washing her bath towels every week as that's her substrate and F10SC her cage every week and stuff like that. She told me that that certain bacteria is found in dirt a lot so it could have come from veggies or if I had it on my hand and she licked my hand or licked something outside the cage. Then she could have gotten stressed from a night of being cold or being too hot or whatever and bam, she was sick. My vet said the main root causes of that stuff are husbandry issues. As long as you keep the temps, humidity and stuff correct, their bodies will generally fight off that stuff just like in the wild.

Well hopefully the new vet knows stuff. I still would find out who your herp club or zoo uses as they have thousands of dollars worth of animals and are going to find the best vet. Plus from a herp club, you can find out who not to go to also as with a bigger collective, you will get much more knowledgeable info from people who experienced it first hand and can save you the money and headache :)

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I have group messaged my herp club and they gave me some good advice and tips! I'm just worried cause the stress may be caused by me. I handle her and check her mouth quite often. Plus sticking her with needles last month. Otherwise her humidity and temps are correct. I've left her alone for 2 weeks besides filling water, spraying, and checking temps. I hope that's not enough to cause bad stress.


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It shouldn't be. I'm assuming when you said needles last month, you had to give her a shot every other day with antibiotics for a month? I had to give Rosey antibiotic shots every other day for a month for her sinus infection. I don't remember the antibiotic off the top of my head, think it was Cef something. She didn't want to give Rosey Baytril as for a 7' snake, the vet said the dosage she would have give in baytril would kill tissue and muscle at the injection site and overall, she really doesn't like giving baytril as its really harsh stuff.

And hooray!! You messaged the herp club! Definitely a step in the right direction. They will be able to give you a list of good vets and then you get your snek all fixed up :) Then as reward for all your hard work, your snek will leave you a giant chocolate tootie roll present the day you clean his cage as a token of love :taz:

Did you take her too a vet each year, was a culture done? What were the results, what type of anti-biotics were prescribed and the lenght of the treatment each time.

Now to the question could she be like that? As i. making sounds because of a possible nasal cavity issue? Than yes, one it could be a piece of stuck shed check for that, two some animals have issues making them sound like they have a RI, I used to have a female Black Pastel like that who under stress of being handled would at times make a noise similar to a RI (even a friend thought she had one), it's just the way she was from the start.

Now it is also possible to have recurring RI hence my first questions.



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Originally Posted by Deborah

Did you take her too a vet each year, was a culture done? What were the results, what type of anti-biotics were prescribed and the lenght of the treatment each time.

Now to the question could she be like that? As i. making sounds because of a possible nasal cavity issue? Than yes, one it could be a piece of stuck shed check for that, two some animals have issues making them sound like they have a RI, I used to have a female Black Pastel like that who under stress of being handled would at times make a noise similar to a RI (even a friend thought she had one), it's just the way she was from the start.

Now it is also possible to have recurring RI hence my first questions.



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Yes I have, she came back once with an RI. This time she didn't. Used Fortaz every 3 days for like... 7 needles I think? I don't have it written down. I don't know what to do if I should go get a lung wash done or a swab. If nothing comes back this time then I guess it's just how she is


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Originally Posted by Medduussa

I have group messaged my herp club and they gave me some good advice and tips! I'm just worried cause the stress may be caused by me. I handle her and check her mouth quite often. Plus sticking her with needles last month. Otherwise her humidity and temps are correct. I've left her alone for 2 weeks besides filling water, spraying, and checking temps. I hope that's not enough to cause bad stress.


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You might be looking into nothing. I mean you said you hear it once a week...if i sat around listening close enough I might think I hear a weeze too hahhaha.. If I were you id relax for a week or two & see whats going on because your right you might be paranoid. You should know if she has a RI, and I don't think it will be from 1 or 2 noises a week..... But hey Im only going by what im reading, you know better than I.