Substrate

I'm about tired of paper substrate. Is cypress yard mulch ok to use for bp bedding?

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Originally Posted by locolobito

I'm about tired of paper substrate. Is cypress yard mulch ok to use for bp bedding?

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I have large cages, that is all I can afford! It works great and I am not thrifty with it when cleaning because it is so cheap. About $3.00 for a huge bag at Lowes.

*****Be sure that no Cedar is mixed in! *****

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...73e3bd5ad5.jpg
Flower bed cypress as substrate

Hey reinz do you do anything like treat or freeze it before use?

Orchid / reptile bark is fabulous for Royals , looks great , make the snakes look even greater and you can have it as humid or as dry as you need .


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Originally Posted by ShaneSilva

Hey reinz do you do anything like treat or freeze it before use?

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The only thing I do is dump a bag into a tub drilled with many holes to help dry that darn wet stuff off. I also leave the lid off. I've never had any issues in the few years that I have used this cypress.

I know a local breeder that has been using it much longer than I have. He has had no problems either.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...49918be161.jpg

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Originally Posted by Reinz

The only thing I do is dump a bag into a tub drilled with many holes to help dry that darn wet stuff off. I also leave the lid off. I've never had any issues in the few years that I have used this cypress.

I know a local breeder that has been using it much longer than I have. He has had no problems either.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...49918be161.jpg

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How often does it get changed? My next question

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Nice I'll give it a try after I finish this brick of pro coco I just bought

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Originally Posted by Reinz

I have large cages, that is all I can afford! It works great and I am not thrifty with it when cleaning because it is so cheap. About $3.00 for a huge bag at Lowes.

*****Be sure that no Cedar is mixed in! *****

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...73e3bd5ad5.jpg
Flower bed cypress as substrate

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Reinz, I think you have me convinced to switch to that substrate as well.

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Originally Posted by locolobito

How often does it get changed? My next question

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That's up to you. My snake are adults and may go 6-8 weeks without making a mess. Sometimes they may go much more frequently.

The main thing that works for me right now is to spot clean VERY liberally when there is a mess. If I see urates the size of a quarter or less, I clean about a 6-8 " circle or beyond what I see that is obviously wet. If there are urates about the size of my palm, I will easily clean a 12 " circle or more if I still see wetness.

Then, after 2-3 spot cleans or splashed water I change it all out.

Same. I think I might just stop by Lowes on my way home ^_^

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Originally Posted by craigafrechette

Reinz, I think you have me convinced to switch to that substrate as well.

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There are nicer and prettier ways to go, but not near this economical. I have 3 - 6 foot cages, 3 - 4 foot, and one 3 foot about to be replaced with a 4 foot. That's a lot of substrate for ME to buy.

Reptile / orchid bark can be cleaned and reused - it's quite a lot of work but worth it - if money is a major factor .


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Originally Posted by ShaneSilva

Nice I'll give it a try after I finish this brick of pro coco I just bought

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Shane, if by chance any of your setups are tanks, this Cypress is perfect on top of coconut as far as raising humidity and only adding water once every few weeks. The perfect combo!

Looks like this thread is going to cost the reptile substrate companies some $$$ lol!

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Originally Posted by Reinz

Shane, if by chance any of your setups are tanks, this Cypress is perfect on top of coconut as far as raising humidity and only adding water once every few weeks. The perfect combo!

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I only have one tank but it has a large water feature, live plants and moss here and there with most of the screen lid covered in foil so I don't have humidity issues. But I'll definitely be giving it a try for its cost effectiveness.

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Originally Posted by Reinz

The only thing I do is dump a bag into a tub drilled with many holes to help dry that darn wet stuff off. I also leave the lid off. I've never had any issues in the few years that I have used this cypress.

I know a local breeder that has been using it much longer than I have. He has had no problems either.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...49918be161.jpg

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Do you know the brand/label on the bag by chance? I'm only seeing a cypress blend in stock for my lowes and "blend" in the label makes me a bit skeptical. $3 for a bag would be a bargain if it's pure cypress!


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I think everything I looked at when shopping around said blend on the bag. I don't know the exact answer as what the actual blend is. My guess is the mill that grinds it just can't guarantee purity. Otherwise they would have to constantly clean their equipment and inspect for "strays".

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...17ed49dcf6.jpg
What my Loews has


As I'm filling cages I look for odd pieces. The only odd piece I have ever found was some bark that looked like pine. I'm not familiar with Cypress bark,except for the kind in rivers and swamps which looks different. Maybe "inland" Cypress bark looks like Pine bark, I don't know, but suspect so.

Bottom line is, neither me or the breeder I know has ever had safety issues.

Thats definitely something I'm looking into today. Thank you for the help n info

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If it worked for people for years, then that's the best kind of feedback you can get !! :)

The only thing that would bother me a bit is the "cypress BLEND" part. That usually means they blend it with whatever is the most readily available and cost effective wood they can get at the time.
"Pure" cypress is getting harder and harder to find.

As long as the other woods blended in are safe, its no big deal. But how would one know if cedar is ever mixed in ? Or untreated pine ?

Again, if it worked for people for years, its most likely "safe", I just wonder if it can sometimes vary from bag to bag, year to year or manufacture site ?

Owning a horse I know that the wrong wood bedding can have bad consequences, even for an animal who only comes in contact with it with its feet and not 24/7.

Has anyone ever been in contact with the manufacture about what other wood is blended in ? And if its consistently the "same formula" of wood blend ?

edited to add this link I've come across during reading up on "cypress blend" possibly containing pine. Seems that shredded pine can be a bad thing, perhaps no immediate issues, but longterm. Even for humans dealing with it ..
Is there a "pure" cypress mulch that is readily available at hardware stores ? (rather then overpriced at petstores)

http://www.ratfanclub.org/pine&cdr.html

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Originally Posted by zina10

If it worked for people for years, then that's the best kind of feedback you can get !! :)

The only thing that would bother me a bit is the "cypress BLEND" part. That usually means they blend it with whatever is the most readily available and cost effective wood they can get at the time.
"Pure" cypress is getting harder and harder to find.

As long as the other woods blended in are safe, its no big deal. But how would one know if cedar is ever mixed in ? Or untreated pine ?

Again, if it worked for people for years, its most likely "safe", I just wonder if it can sometimes vary from bag to bag, year to year or manufacture site ?

Owning a horse I know that the wrong wood bedding can have bad consequences, even for an animal who only comes in contact with it with its feet and not 24/7.

Has anyone ever been in contact with the manufacture about what other wood is blended in ? And if its consistently the "same formula" of wood blend ?

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I understand your reluctance. I was very skeptical at first.

As mentioned before, when I lay it out in the cage one handful at a time I inspect the wood. It all looks very consistent with the exception of some bark. In fact, the only difference I can tell between this blend and reptile cypress is that the pieces are much larger with the blend. Some pieces are even too big. I trash those, or if I feel like it I will use the large pieces on bottom and edges of the enclosure.

There are always trade offs and sometimes risks when economy enters the picture. I see no and have not experienced any risks. I'll take a huge economical discrepancy over the convenience of smaller and drier pieces AT THIS TIME.

I am always thinking of how to better things and make things easier, and willing to try new ideas. I've had failures, but not at the safety of my animals. But then, I've progressed as well.

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Originally Posted by Reinz

I understand your reluctance. I was very skeptical at first.

As mentioned before, when I lay it out in the cage one handful at a time I inspect the wood. It all looks very consistent with the exception of some bark. In fact, the only difference I can tell between this blend and reptile cypress is that the pieces are much larger with the blend. Some pieces are even too big. I trash those, or if I feel like it I will use the large pieces on bottom and edges of the enclosure.

There are always trade offs and sometimes risks when economy enters the picture. I see no and have not experienced any risks. I'll take a huge economical discrepancy over the convenience of smaller and drier pieces AT THIS TIME.

I am always thinking of how to better things and make things easier, and willing to try new ideas. I've had failures, but not at the safety of my animals. But then, I've progressed as well.

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Do the cypress pieces look very different from other wood ? Would one know ??
I'm looking into possibly, possibly getting a Blood Python once again, I miss the one I had :) And I know many people like them on cypress or give them a cypress box. That is why I'm so interested in this.

I haven't done any research yet aside from that link that popped up for "cypress blend" containing other woods.

Is "pure" cypress harder to find ? A lot more expensive ? I wouldn't want to buy it at the petstore if it is the same exact stuff then at the hardware store. Not paying premium for someone else repackaging it into smaller bags and sticking their own label on it ;)

I would just rather avoid pine and cedar, even for my own sake as well as the animals.

I might just see if I can somehow find a contact information for the "blend" and find out what they use and if its consistent.

Can't find Info on that particular Blend, but there are several others available that do list the contents and all those are blended with pine. Between 30% to 50%.

That makes me wonder if the Blend you all use is not blended with Pine, OR if the Pine isn't actually as dangerous as some people say.

Because after all, the proof is in the pudding , it seems to work well and for a lot of people, too !! :)

Since I only have a very small collection I might try to hunt down pure cypress if I get a Blood. Or put him on coco.

This bedding here is $13.50 on an auction site. In the store, $15+++ ? It's for 5 qts, about the size of an 8-10 pound bag of pet food. It would take a dozen of these to equal just one bag from Lowes at $3.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...5928cb2385.jpg
Now if I was only providing for just one tank or tub I probably would never have looked for an alternative. But big snakes need big enclosures, thus a lot of substrate.

Other than coconut, I don't know what beats Cypress for humidity retention. When more humidity is needed, just spray or pour water on it. Try pouring water on Aspen and you have a huge soggy mess!

For tanks, layered Coconut with Cypress on top can't be beat for humidity control.
But I digress.......:rolleyes:

Isn't there a "garden" alternative for "pure" cypress ?

That reptile bedding cypress is just repackaged. I wouldn't want to pay that much for basically the same stuff.

I wonder if some garden stores sell it for "garden" application. Probably a lot cheaper.. :D

If I had giant snakes I sure wouldn't want to pay that price...esp. as "a. retentive" as I am about cleaning. It would cost me a fortune !!! And yes, Aspen is a pain..

Who knows, perhaps pine isn't such a bad thing when it comes to snakes ? If many people used these blends, some for decades without bad consequences, it cannot be that bad.

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Originally Posted by zina10

Can't find Info on that particular Blend, but there are several others available that do list the contents and all those are blended with pine. Between 30% to 50%.

That makes me wonder if the Blend you all use is not blended with Pine, OR if the Pine isn't actually as dangerous as some people say.

Because after all, the proof is in the pudding , it seems to work well and for a lot of people, too !! :)

Since I only have a very small collection I might try to hunt down pure cypress if I get a Blood. Or put him on coco.

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Some of this ^^^^ I address on my previous post just a few minutes after.

All I do know for sure is:

That pine is a highly whiteish yellow color similar to Aspen.

There is no yellow wood in the blend I use.

If there is and IF it has been dyed dark to be disguised as Cypress, then the dye is not rubbing off onto my snakes bellies, especially the white and light bellied Carpet Pythons.

There is no pine smell to this blend.

I'm not going to get into a debate about Pine and oils/resins, no oils, etc. :)

I've had zero health issues in the few years time I've been used this.

Lastly, I've never started a thread trying to rope folks in to this. I'm just answering questions. :)

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Originally Posted by zina10

Isn't there a "garden" alternative for "pure" cypress ?

That reptile bedding cypress is just repackaged. I wouldn't want to pay that much for basically the same stuff.

I wonder if some garden stores sell it for "garden" application. Probably a lot cheaper.. :D

If I had giant snakes I sure wouldn't want to pay that price...esp. as "a. retentive" as I am about cleaning. It would cost me a fortune !!! And yes, Aspen is a pain..

Who knows, perhaps pine isn't such a bad thing when it comes to snakes ? If many people used these blends, some for decades without bad consequences, it cannot be that bad.

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Hahaha, seems that we are typing about at the same time. But I am much slower, being that I have to peck on an iPad. :)

I dont know the answers about a garden garden variety or not.

All I can say is that I am satisfied for my applications thus far.

BTW Zina, I love your questions, they good and necessary!

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Originally Posted by Reinz

Hahaha, seems that we are typing about at the same time. But I am much slower, being that I have to peck on an iPad. :)

I dont know the answers about a garden garden variety or not.

All I can say is that I am satisfied for my applications thus far.

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That is why threads such as this are so valuable.

One can only do so much research. Finding out about what actually works for people, and works well, is so important!!

Just got done picking up a bag of the Nofloat at Lowes. Its semi-frozen but should be thawed in at least 48 hours. Looks to me like its all cypress.

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Originally Posted by locolobito

Just got done picking up a bag of the Nofloat at Lowes. Its semi-frozen but should be thawed in at least 48 hours. Looks to me like its all cypress.

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Now it will be wet throughout the bag. If you can dump some or all into a tub indoors to start drying out you will find it helpful.

That's one of the trade offs for economy.

If anyone is that worried about the blend this one says 100% Cypress. It's a few dollars more than the blend reinz recommend but still way cheaper than what's sold in pet stores or online marketed for reptiles

https://m.lowes.com/pd/Mulch-3-cu-ft...-Mulch/3156693

The main difference I noticed is that this comes in a more shredded form and is mainly produced from bark rather than the wood of the tree. It says there are no herbicides or insecticides.

Thoughts?

http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/...psdd11mqec.png

http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/...ps3eiiay5f.png

Well, that is a good find !!

While it is more expensive then the blend, it is a LOT cheaper then the pet store variety !!

After dumping mulch into tubs, I noticed a lot of big chunks. Hammer n chisel will knock them down to smaller bits. Definitely wetter than what petco offers

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Originally Posted by locolobito

After dumping mulch into tubs, I noticed a lot of big chunks. Hammer n chisel will knock them down to smaller bits. Definitely wetter than what petco offers

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If you need to dry it out in a hurry, you could spread out a tarp in a room you can close off. Then spread out the substrate on the tarp as thin as you can. A overhead fan will speed up the process. Or just buy one of those big and deep rubbermaid containers to store the substrate in and turn it every so often with a big stick.

If you live somewhere where it is sunny, you could do the tarp thing outdoors on a table. Not on a windy day, though, LOL !!

Actually some clumps are still frozen together. Got one tub on top of running dryer and the other tub in front of space heater.

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Planted cypress forests normally contain other trees, because some trees like pine grow everywhere, whether you want them to or not. At least that's what was told to me when I called garick, the home Depot brand at the time, about the cypress blend. They found it very interesting we use their product for something other than gardens.

There is no evidence that pine oil is dangerous to your reptile, just hearsay and people who don't know how to read a study. Cedar however has been proven to cause issues, relatively quickly also. While they make no claims Cedar won't be in a blend, I've never heard of someone having issues and I've used cypress blends for 8ish years I'd say without issue.

Just filled 11 out of 27 tubs with one bag of that NoFloat. So 3 bags will do me justice. Thank you Reinz for the awesome find.

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The blend might be referring to how big the pieces there are in the bag.

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Originally Posted by rdoyle

The blend might be referring to how big the pieces there are in the bag.

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This is what I found in the question part. Someone ask what the blended mean. The blend refers to the colors not the mixture of wood that in it.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...a54d16aedb.jpg

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this is a great thread, very informative! I prefer Cypress and the bulk source at lowes sounds awesome. i use cypress in many applications because it's the only thing i've found that holds humidity pretty solidly and also doesn't mold.

I have had the No float cypress mulch in my tubs and 40B for almost 2 weeks. There are small bits and big chunks in mix. Humidity is holding nicely in 40B. Tubs are more dried out but mist once a day. My critters seem to like it more than newspaper. But sure they miss reading articles

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I quit using a mister a few years ago. I just pour water �� directly on the Cypress. Not all in one place mind you. I keep moving the water jar while pouring. That sure made things easier.

Also, by pouring, I only need to add water every few weeks.

Add again: I use about a quart in a 6 foot cage and about 1-1.5 pints in a 4 foot cage.

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Originally Posted by Reinz

I quit using a mister a few years ago. I just pour water �� directly on the Cypress. Not all in one place mind you. I keep moving the water jar while pouring. That sure made things easier.

Also, by pouring, I only need to add water every few weeks.

Add again: I use about a quart in a 6 foot cage and about 1-1.5 pints in a 4 foot cage.

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I'm thinking of trying the cypress now, so pouring water over the cypress doesn't cause mold? Do you run a humidifier in your reptile room?

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Originally Posted by argofoto

I'm thinking of trying the cypress now, so pouring water over the cypress doesn't cause mold? Do you run a humidifier in your reptile room?

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No mold at all. The key is to spread the water, don't let it pool.

The only time I am even concerned about mold is when my snakes are constantly in and out of their soaking bowls and have created a puddle of water [emoji97]. Then I change the Cypress out in that area.

No humidifier at all. I've never used one, and see no need except for maybe reptiles needing 90-100%.

That's the big benefit of Cypress, it is at the top of the list for humidity control along with coconut products.

Now if you have a tank, and are having humidity issues, even with Cypress, then layering Cypress on top of Eco-earth is as good as it gets. I had no problem getting humidity in the 70s by layering and pouring double the water. The excess water drains to the coconut and then the coconut releases water to the Cypress when needed. Never experienced mold with a few years of that system.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...5252d5458a.jpg

Esmarelda, Jungle Carpet using the layered substrate.

I even use cypress in my BRB enclosure, 80%+ humidity and I've never seen mold grow on it in almost 3 years... think sopping wet at times (BRB's like to be in wetland like conditions when juveniles). cypress is the key to doing bioactive for me with our BRB, that and springtails. haven't swapped out the substrate in more than a year, it's bioactive and planted with a grow light, I don't even remove droppings ... I know, it sounds hard to believe :~(), but it's working and "Ruby Sparkles" is super happy and healthy. Once I am secure in husbandry for our BP's I will probably start a more bio-active approach with cypress and plants and a grow light and see if I can get it nailed down. I rarely add or subtract water to any of my enclosures once they are stable, they are mostly sealed up.

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Originally Posted by argofoto

I'm thinking of trying the cypress now, so pouring water over the cypress doesn't cause mold? Do you run a humidifier in your reptile room?

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Originally Posted by Slither Seeker

I even use cypress in my BRB enclosure, 80%+ humidity and I've never seen mold grow on it in almost 3 years... think sopping wet at times (BRB's like to be in wetland like conditions when juveniles). cypress is the key to doing bioactive for me with our BRB, that and springtails. haven't swapped out the substrate in more than a year, it's bioactive and planted with a grow light, I don't even remove droppings ... I know, it sounds hard to believe :~(), but it's working and "Ruby Sparkles" is super happy and healthy. Once I am secure in husbandry for our BP's I will probably start a more bio-active approach with cypress and plants and a grow light and see if I can get it nailed down. I rarely add or subtract water to any of my enclosures once they are stable, they are mostly sealed up.

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I love your maintenance free approach!

I just can't grasp the idea of my big Boas and Carpets NOT destroying the plants.

One day I would love a bioactive enclosure in a beautiful display unit with a gorgeous Green Tree Python inside.

I used to have 2 GTP's and they make great Display animals and I don't think they would destroy the plants.

Both of my GTP's could be handled just fine (although I didn't do it often) neither ever struck at me. But in the evening or at night, you want to keep the hands out of the enclosure, LOL !!!

Perhaps one day I might look into this. I would like to find a way to have an enclosure that is both "display", built right into the living areas of the home, and also easy to maintain the correct husbandry. Bioactive, with plants, vines and wood perches (or imitation wood perches)