Changed things up, snakes didn't eat...

I've been playing around with different substrates and right now I really like the Reptichip (coconut husk) substrate. Up until last week I was actually putting Reptichip in the tub all over except right on the hotspot and the ball pythons would sit directly on the plastic tub. Lately I've found a few small red spots on some of my snakes and suspected scale rot, I'm thinking it's probably not a good thing to put the snake directly on the plastic tub.

So last week I removed the snakes, spread out the Reptichip about an inch thick all through the entire tub even over the hotspot, sprayed it down with a bit of water, then put the snake back. Today when I fed them most of the snakes were still on the hot spot but some moved over to the cold side. And almost none of them ate their fresh killed rodents, quite a surprise. So after the feeding I decided to bump up the hotspot temp from 88F to 90F. With Reptichip over the hotspot I'm guessing it's keeping the snakes a bit colder making them go off of food. If they don't eat next week I may bump it up to 92F.

I also have King snakes and reticulated pythons. My big retic digs down on the hotspot, it's easy for him because he is so heavy. My other smaller super dwarf retic stays on the Reptichip on the cold side. Both of them ate no problem (not surprising!). And none of my King snakes ever really hang out on the hot spot, they all tend to wander, and they all ate as well. I'm thinking the hot spot temps only really affects the ball pythons.

I'm thinking you're changing too many variables at the same time to be able to narrow down the root cause of the missed feeding to just the temperatures. Also, if it's only a week's worth, why the red flag?

Actually the only thing I did was to put a little substrate over the hot spot.

So I'm still continuing the experiment, I put substrate over the hotspot and this is the fourth feeding that almost all my ball pythons missed! So I've decided to go back to my original setup and move the substrate away from the hotspot, put the ball pythons directly on the bottom of the tub on the hotspot and 'nestle' them with Repitchip (none under the snake). I'm thinking that just that one inch of Reptichip under the snake kept them from getting warm enough on the hotspot and causing them to go off of feed.

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Originally Posted by cchardwick

So I'm still continuing the experiment, I put substrate over the hotspot and this is the fourth feeding that almost all my ball pythons missed! So I've decided to go back to my original setup and move the substrate away from the hotspot, put the ball pythons directly on the bottom of the tub on the hotspot and 'nestle' them with Repitchip (none under the snake). I'm thinking that just that one inch of Reptichip under the snake kept them from getting warm enough on the hotspot and causing them to go off of feed.

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If I remember correctly you had talked about feeding your Snakes basically whenever they'll take it right? Correct me of i'm wrong but I think it was you as I follow your White Ball and Retic updates.. Anyways I was thinking it could be the time of year....?
Maybe with all that feeding they are going off for a couple months? I feed every 5-7 but my balls are young so it hasn't caught up to them at all yet....and ofcourse your retics like my Burm wont ever refuse a meal unless something wrong most likely hahahaha

First time I can remember, none of my boys ate. But I found a sperm plug? Go figure lol.

What are the ambient temps in the room like? Do you heat a whole room or just the rack up?

I might be wrong but isn't scale rot caused by wet or prolonged damp conditions? So if you didn't have substrate on a portion on the tub that seems like it would lend itself away from scale rot not towards it. (depending on your humidity)
I would be more concerned with burns or mites, but if your sure your hotspot was 88 it seems burns would be unlikely as well. Do the snakes still have the little red spots?

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I think I remember you posting that you feed twice a week??

I use ReptiChips myself and haven't had any problem except the last time I kind of wetted it down too much so I had steam on the front doors of my cages for about 4 days. But I just put down about 1" of substrate on the whole bottom including hot spot over the flexwatt. The snakes just push the stuff away if they want more heat and even push it away on the cool side to create a 'nest' I guess. My BP actually seems to eat better now with a 70% humidity vs when on aspen but it might just be my imagination.

Anyways my temps for everyone are about 78-80F cool side, 90-95F hot spot and ambient is whatever it is in there lol. The humidity is kept around 80-85% except for the dumerils who is at like 60% and the BP who is at like 60-70%. All of them bounce from hot side to cool side to sometimes in between behind their water bowl except my sunglow who seems to not be that fond of the hot side unless she has just eaten.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by cchardwick

So I'm still continuing the experiment, I put substrate over the hotspot and this is the fourth feeding that almost all my ball pythons missed! So I've decided to go back to my original setup and move the substrate away from the hotspot, put the ball pythons directly on the bottom of the tub on the hotspot and 'nestle' them with Repitchip (none under the snake). I'm thinking that just that one inch of Reptichip under the snake kept them from getting warm enough on the hotspot and causing them to go off of feed.

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A snake can and will push substrate aside to get to heat if it wants more. That's why when you take temps with flexwatt, you take it from the bottom of the cage/tub and not the top of the substrate.

Actually I was feeding every 3-4 days, probably too often but I have so many rats and mice I'm getting over run LOL. I actually changed things up again, I reduced the hotspot temps back down to 88F (from 90F) and removed the Repitchip from the back of the tubs like it was before, I'm going back to the old setup. The other thing I realized is that not only did the temps over the hotspot change but the actual hide itself changed. When you move the Reptichip away from the hotspot it makes a sort of hide within the tub, so they sit in a deep depression with a ridge of Reptichip around them. Perhaps that gives them extra security. So maybe it was a combination of temps and security. I decided to go back to the original setup since almost none of my ball pythons have eaten for the last four feedings!

Also, my retic didn't eat his big ol rat on the last feeding. I'm thinking she reached a size to where her metabolism has slowed down, I was feeding her twice a week as well. Sometimes I would give her a big rat and sometimes she was getting one or two smaller rats left over from other non-eaters. This is the very first time she has never taken a rat. She went through some explosive growth though, I'm thinking I can cut her back to once a week or so. She is nice an hefty and has some nice girth on her. She used to eat a big rat and two days later she was super skinny again, not anymore!

I've also decided to feed once every five days instead of every 3-4 days. I have a wide range of ages from hatchlings all the way to adults, this is sort of a happy medium. I'd like to offer my youngers at least once every five days, if the adults miss a meal then they go to every 10 days.

It could be the time of year as well. As far as my ambient temps I actually increased my room temp from 75F to 78F in the last month or so, seems like the tubs dry out faster when the temps are hotter.

Also, I think some snakes were getting red spots from poor maintenance. I've decided to remove each snake from the back of the tubs, spray down the back with Chlorhexidine and wipe it dry at least twice a week to keep things a bit cleaner. I also clean the same way if I notice a real dirty tub or if I can smell my retic LOL.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cchardwick

Actually I was feeding every 3-4 days, probably too often but I have so many rats and mice I'm getting over run LOL. I actually changed things up again, I reduced the hotspot temps back down to 88F (from 90F) and removed the Repitchip from the back of the tubs like it was before, I'm going back to the old setup. The other thing I realized is that not only did the temps over the hotspot change but the actual hide itself changed. When you move the Reptichip away from the hotspot it makes a sort of hide within the tub, so they sit in a deep depression with a ridge of Reptichip around them. Perhaps that gives them extra security. So maybe it was a combination of temps and security. I decided to go back to the original setup since almost none of my ball pythons have eaten for the last four feedings!

Also, my retic didn't eat his big ol rat on the last feeding. I'm thinking she reached a size to where her metabolism has slowed down, I was feeding her twice a week as well. Sometimes I would give her a big rat and sometimes she was getting one or two smaller rats left over from other non-eaters. This is the very first time she has never taken a rat. She went through some explosive growth though, I'm thinking I can cut her back to once a week or so. She is nice an hefty and has some nice girth on her. She used to eat a big rat and two days later she was super skinny again, not anymore!

I've also decided to feed once every five days instead of every 3-4 days. I have a wide range of ages from hatchlings all the way to adults, this is sort of a happy medium. I'd like to offer my youngers at least once every five days, if the adults miss a meal then they go to every 10 days.

It could be the time of year as well. As far as my ambient temps I actually increased my room temp from 75F to 78F in the last month or so, seems like the tubs dry out faster when the temps are hotter.

Also, I think some snakes were getting red spots from poor maintenance. I've decided to remove each snake from the back of the tubs, spray down the back with Chlorhexidine and wipe it dry at least twice a week to keep things a bit cleaner. I also clean the same way if I notice a real dirty tub or if I can smell my retic LOL.

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3-4 days is too often unless you are talking a baby python and even then, that's pretty often. I fed Dottie every 3-5 days as a 90g baby until she hit about 6 months old. Then she went to 1 week. So really I don't find it surprising your snakes have quit eating lol. And even the retic, a large rat every 3 days!? Dang. Caesar is a garbage can of garbage cans but even at 5', he just moved up to large rats and the first one I gave him is last Wednesday is still working for him. He is still quiet 8 days later but I think he is going into shed too. If she is eating a large rat and 2 days later the lump is gone, its time to step up to gpigs or rabbits.

Every 5 days is still way too soon. Do what I do and keep a computerized post it note on your computer with dates for everyone. My snakes too eat on all different schedules. I've moved everyone to 10 days except Rosey and Vicky who I have moved to every 3 weeks. The babies can do ok on 5 days if you are talking BPs.

As for temps, like I said, I keep my snake room around 78-80F. I used to have to kind of work on humidity with aspen but since switching to ReptiChips with the AP cages, its freakin humidity galore lol. I actually have to fight to get the humidity down lol.

As for the depression with ring of ReptiChips, you don't need to actually move the stuff. The snakes will make their own hole. I call it a 'nest' and all my snakes make them over top of their flexwatt and usually on the cool side too. Heck they shove ReptiChips all over the place. I would just leave it and let them make their own 'nest'

No idea on the red spots. Could be the start of scale rot but without pics, who knows. I generally try and spot clean daily if needed and once a month, I throw out all the ReptiChips and F10SC the whole cage and replace the ReptiChips. Everyone except the retic are easy to take care of as they only poop like once or twice a month and piss about the same but their piss has the urate so its easy to spot what I need to pull out. The retic is different in that he pisses a lot of just liquid which makes it hard to spot on the ReptiChips. I switched him to paper towels which is working good but I do like the look of ReptiChips better so might switch back.

If the red spots are all over their bellies, I personally would switch everyone to paper towels and give them betadyne soaks until the spots are gone.

Just wanted to give an update on the feeding issue, I switched back to an 88F hotspot and mid to low 70s ambient and still had problems with a lot of my ball pythons not eating. I did some research and found that some people use mid to low 70s ambient as their breeding temps. So I bumped my ambient temps up to 80F and all my snakes started eating again! Looks like I finally figured it out, I'm planning on dropping the ambient only when I'm in the breeding season.