Am I NUTS or do you feel the same?

I have never heard such crazy questions. Supposedly there are no stupid questions if people want to learn.... However, what happened to common sense and research? Ive read (1st post) thread after thread in only 1.5 months -
"Hi im new to snakes, I want to buy a few and then breed them, what kind of snake is best, what should I do as far as a tank, heat and feeding"... ???????
Wait, so let me get this strait... You never owned a snake, you want SOME not one, and you want them all to make more snakes?? McFly... McFly...
(I'm going to hit myself with a Tack Hammer hoping its all a nightmare for the Snakes Sake!!
Has everyone lost their minds?? These are living things not Lego's :mad:
(I needed to vent, I feel like im in the Twilight Zone sometimes)

You are most definitely not nuts, lol. I've seen people say to me they plan on breeding them AFTER me telling them they need a thermostat and humidity levels. I've almost gave up on the world's stupidity.

I agree there is not so much as stupid questions from people who genuinely want to learn, we all started with 0 knowledge at some point in our life and it's great these people ask such questions. But there is definitely such thing as stupid people who don't take the advice on thermostats (or any other advice for that matter) anyway and still want to breed. :rolleyes:

we have the world's knowledge at our fingertips, and yet people can't seem to google their questions. some people think "online research" is clicking the first link from google, then when they realize it doesn't help, assume it's a mystery. there's an art to goole-fu.
a lot of it could be impulse decision-making: not looking past their own gains before recognizing they are caring for a living being. the ignorance could also be a mindset of snakes being "just dumb murder machines they don't need care, and they don't poop, right??" (gosh the questions i've gotten when people learn i own snakes is astounding and a bit sad.)
the ones who chime in saying the want to get elbow-deep in breeding yet have never owned a snake is startling. these are not plug-and-play money machines, they're living beings! i would love to breed some day, but i still have a lot to learn and i recognize that. how can people not accept their ignorance and try to change it? the best we can do is try to educate them and really bring home the truth that these are animals who will rely on you for care for 20+ years.
as my father says: "it takes all kinds of people to make up this crazy world."

And usually those are the people that will fail as a keeper and fail as a breeder, because if you have to be spoon fed and shows zero intention on doing your homework than you are not committed or have a real passion for those animals.

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Originally Posted by montymiow

You are most definitely not nuts, lol. I've seen people say to me they plan on breeding them AFTER me telling them they need a thermostat and humidity levels. I've almost gave up on the world's stupidity.

I agree there is not so much as stupid questions from people who genuinely want to learn, we all started with 0 knowledge at some point in our life and it's great these people ask such questions. But there is definitely such thing as stupid people who don't take the advice on thermostats (or any other advice for that matter) anyway and still want to breed. :rolleyes:

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I agree 100% and im not trying to be a jerk, I just feel bad for the Animals..I ask questions too, but heck it isn't about how to keep something alive and heathy after I come home from a store wih it in Mid January/Feb. Im big on our rights but with the way I see Pets suffer in the hands of Idiots I think you should have to get some kind of Licence idk. Im even against that like I said I beleive in Our Freedom but this is insane.
I see the same with Dogs all the time.. Here in NY Pits are breed and breed and leftovers pups that dont sell are thrown out on the steets and then euthanized by the Humane Society. Makes me Sick!

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Originally Posted by Deborah

And usually those are the people that will fail as a keeper and fail as a breeder, because if you have to be spoon fed and shows zero intention on doing your homework than you are not committed or have a real passion for those animals.

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this.

Theres a reason you see "whole collection out of hobby!" sales. I inquired about a boa the other day on LetGo and ended up getting 2 BPs because they were fire-saleing their collection....

Kind of like someone asking "Hi I'm new to dogs, I want to buy a few and then breed them, what kind of dog is best, what should I do as far as a crate, heat, and feeding..."

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Originally Posted by Mr Sully

I see the same with Dogs all the time.. Here in NY Pits are breed and breed and leftovers pups that dont sell are thrown out on the steets and then euthanized by the Humane Society. Makes me Sick!

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even with animals most people know of very well, there are still huge amounts of bad owners. i feel like it's the disconnect where people don't see animals as LIVING BEINGS, but as a way to get what they want; selfishness. we don't keep or breed for any other reason besides we love these animals. the passion has and must always come first.

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Originally Posted by tttaylorrr

we have the world's knowledge at our fingertips, and yet people can't seem to google their questions. some people think "online research" is clicking the first link from google, then when they realize it doesn't help, assume it's a mystery. there's an art to goole-fu.
a lot of it could be impulse decision-making: not looking past their own gains before recognizing they are caring for a living being. the ignorance could also be a mindset of snakes being "just dumb murder machines they don't need care, and they don't poop, right??" (gosh the questions i've gotten when people learn i own snakes is astounding and a bit sad.)
the ones who chime in saying the want to get elbow-deep in breeding yet have never owned a snake is startling. these are not plug-and-play money machines, they're living beings! i would love to breed some day, but i still have a lot to learn and i recognize that. how can people not accept their ignorance and try to change it? the best we can do is try to educate them and really bring home the truth that these are animals who will rely on you for care for 20+ years.
as my father says: "it takes all kinds of people to make up this crazy world."

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What is crazy is everything you said should be common sense!!! Im new on this forum but have been apart of several (Pit Bull Rescues ect.. ) and sometimes i seriously wonder if some of the questions are a joke or from a learning disabled individual.
All I can say is WOW and move on or I might say something that gets me Booted hahhahha:banned1::banned1:

Glad others are as Baffled as I am somtimes. I have to question myself and make sure I'm not just being jerk....or what lol...

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Originally Posted by Mr Sully

I agree 100% and im not trying to be a jerk, I just feel bad for the Animals..I ask questions too, but heck it isn't about how to keep something alive and heathy after I come home from a store wih it in Mid January/Feb. Im big on our rights but with the way I see Pets suffer in the hands of Idiots I think you should have to get some kind of Licence idk. Im even against that like I said I beleive in Our Freedom but this is insane.
I see the same with Dogs all the time.. Here in NY Pits are breed and breed and leftovers pups that dont sell are thrown out on the steets and then euthanized by the Humane Society. Makes me Sick!

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Im totally on ths same page with you that you should have some knowledge before you are able to buy any pet, I see it as cruelty to not give them what they need. I've seen people jump in buying them and not providing or knowing anything, sometimes they will really take your advice and want to learn how to care for it properly and I love helping the animals by helping them, others continue to ignore your advice saying their snake in a tub with either no heating or unregulated heat mat is fine and is the proper way to do things. You can lead a horse to water comes to mind. I just wish the animals didn't have to suffer because of them :(.

I am one of those people who has never kept snakes before and to start with I bought 3 however thats were the similarity ends I've been around reptiles my entire life worked in a small pet shop that sold them and I loved taking care of them I've helped my friend who was a breeder (corn snakes,green tree pythons among others) on clean up days. When I decided I wanted to start keeping BPs I spent almost 6 months researching propper care and when I found out that tubs were better for juveniles then tanks were I swapped to tubs I had the tubs set up for 2 weeks adjusting temps and monitoring humidity at the moment there setup isn't pretty but I care more about right than pretty. I had rats and mice in the freezer and had found out were to get live mice if needed they threw me a curve ball by sending the snake that wouldnt eat but thankfully I found this place and was able to get advice on taking care of him and hopefully he will pick up and do good now

I don't breed so I find it extremely frustrating. Especially the people who want to throw themselves into breeding the most common over populated species around even though they can't be bothered to research on them deeply, keep them correctly or hang onto them for life in the vast majority of cases. Don't, just don't. There's no excuse either, I got my first snake over a decade ago and there were forums and correct info then so I don't have a ton of patience with people who want everything spoon fed to them.

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Originally Posted by Sargentnoid

I am one of those people who has never kept snakes before and to start with I bought 3 however thats were the similarity ends I've been around reptiles my entire life worked in a small pet shop that sold them and I loved taking care of them I've helped my friend who was a breeder (corn snakes,green tree pythons among others) on clean up days. When I decided I wanted to start keeping BPs I spent almost 6 months researching propper care and when I found out that tubs were better for juveniles then tanks were I swapped to tubs I had the tubs set up for 2 weeks adjusting temps and monitoring humidity at the moment there setup isn't pretty but I care more about right than pretty. I had rats and mice in the freezer and had found out were to get live mice if needed they threw me a curve ball by sending the snake that wouldnt eat but thankfully I found this place and was able to get advice on taking care of him and hopefully he will pick up and do good now

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NO your not one of those people. Look at what you just wrote hahhaha.. And Im amazed at what you did with your lil guy that wouldnt eat. You are going to be the reason he makes it.
This site has amazing info and the problem is one thats been discussed.... People wanting or getting Snakes/Pets for the wrong reasons. Impulse ect.. We all know what that is as each human has experienced it.. Kinda like coming home with that new Harley before talking to the wife hahha or new Purse wothout telling Hubby and thats all fun and games until your effecting a living thing that has no choice in the matter...
Anyway, your a good example bro not what were talking about at all :gj:

I agree with the what has been said so far, but every so often on various forums I come across the situation where "I just got a (insert reptile) for (insert special occasion) from (insert person) and I need to know what I need to take care of it". Now I know most people with experience would tell them to take it back to the store and get the equipment first, but I don't believe a majority of people would actually do it, serious or not about the hobby.

So now they need correct information quick, already have the reptile and don't have the luxury to spend the months researching the care for that specific animal, what would you do?


I always get a chuckle when I see someone ask a question, then see the same person the next day giving someone else advice on the problem they were just asking about(I purposely left this vague)

I'm not excusing them, but one thing to remember is that there are teenagers and preteens on this forum. Heck they're still learning about life. As a group they can be impulsive and are dreamers (which is good) as well.

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Originally Posted by Aztec4mia

I agree with the what has been said so far, but every so often on various forums I come across the situation where "I just got a (insert reptile) for (insert special occasion) from (insert person) and I need to know what I need to take care of it". Now I know most people with experience would tell them to take it back to the store and get the equipment first, but I don't believe a majority of people would actually do it, serious or not about the hobby.

So now they need correct information quick, already have the reptile and don't have the luxury to spend the months researching the care for that specific animal, what would you do?


I always get a chuckle when I see someone ask a question, then see the same person the next day giving someone else advice on the problem they were just asking about(I purposely left this vague)

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I agree there are exceptions... And I wouldnt feel upset with the poster if that were the case.... Its really the "just got back from the White Plains Reptile Expo and need to know what I should go buy for my new Blah Blah Blah"
.....that Im refuring too .....

I guess what I am most concerned about, is where will all of these snakes go when they grow up and they lose the brightness of their skin or they become aggressive from being stressed all the time. If someone can't take the time to do simple research I doubt that they could handle a difficult situation. My snake will be alive for maybe a third of my life... It's a massive investment.

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Originally Posted by Reinz

I'm not excusing them, but one thing to remember is that there are teenagers and preteens on this forum. Heck they're still learning about life. As a group they can be impulsive and are dreamers (which is good) as well.

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You right and I thought about that (almost included it in thread) and wonder what kind of parents they have.. My girls help take care of our 3 dogs but they can never just come home with anything and they wouldnt as they have been taught living things arent a toy... But heck Reinz we can get onto a whole nother story about todays society with that one hahahahaha

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Originally Posted by cayley

I guess what I am most concerned about, is where will all of these snakes go when they grow up and they lose the brightness of their skin or they become aggressive from being stressed all the time. If someone can't take the time to do simple research I doubt that they could handle a difficult situation. My snake will be alive for maybe a third of my life... It's a massive investment.

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And thats what makes me so mad... Its a shame.

I'm coming in to this from the opposite direction. I had never considered owning a snake. I am currently going through a divorce and my daughter knows that I love having pets, but also that I won't have a pet if I can't take good care of one. I have several other things going on that make having a dog or cat impossible, at least by my standards.

She suggested a ball python. My daughter is incredibly intuitive and she is very knowledgeable about animals, so I looked into it. My Google search brought me to this site. I had a question and tried to do a search, but I had to be a member, so here I am!

The more I looked into it, the more I realized that a BP would be perfect for me. Then I decided that 2 would be better. I am thinking about breeding them once, knowing full well that there is a possibility that I would need to keep all of the offspring if I cannot find a good home for them.

That is all years down the road, as I need to get set up for the first 2 first. Between this site and Youtube, I have come up with a list of supplies and equipment that I need before I can bring a snake home. And I need to get the divorce finalized so I can get back on my feet and in to a place of my own.

So I went from never having a thought of owning a snake to possibly having 10 or more in the next 10 years.

There are people out there that solicit buyers that have no knowledge with 'get rich quick breeding reptiles' bs. There is a pair of guys, or maybe they were brothers, that do that with bearded dragons making claims how you'll make money and if not, 'we'll buy the breeding stock back!' something along those lines, been posted about multiple times on the BOI by people that feel they were scammed and yet new people still fall for it. There was a gecko guy using it as a sales tactic to sell his (imo overpriced) leos. Heard it a few times over the years and won't be surprised to hear it again. People will and do see these animals simply as a commodity. Not much different IMO than some of the people that wholesale/flip/catch WC in bulk, etc etc. There always seems to be a dirty underbelly in any business, the saddest part is when it deals with living creatures who are helpless and captive to our whims.
I'll stop ranting now.
:P

no, you're not nuts. these are nuts:

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...fibre-noci.jpg

i roll my eyes when someone says or post, i've been doing alotta research and then ask the most basic husbandry or snake question. lol really? you couldn't find the most basic answers during your research? i'll help u out but slow down. also first time, first year keepers/breeders scare me. i wanna breed, but i'm taking my time and doing it in steps like this:

1. research BP/snake care
2. shop
3. keep
4. continue to learn and care
5. breed responsibly

Edit: even with some breeding size females, i'm taking my sweet time to reach step 5 and that's fine. :)

It always disturbs me too! You're not nuts, the jar of nuts in your kitchen is nuts. HAHA

"I'm planning on breeding and getting maybe 10~20 ball pythons and making it into a side-business, but I don't have a snake yet. ANY TIPS?????? WHERE DO I START"

:please: This is me praying for them and any animals that fall into their hands.

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Originally Posted by Bassball Fever

I'm coming in to this from the opposite direction. I had never considered owning a snake. I am currently going through a divorce and my daughter knows that I love having pets, but also that I won't have a pet if I can't take good care of one. I have several other things going on that make having a dog or cat impossible, at least by my standards.

She suggested a ball python. My daughter is incredibly intuitive and she is very knowledgeable about animals, so I looked into it. My Google search brought me to this site. I had a question and tried to do a search, but I had to be a member, so here I am!

The more I looked into it, the more I realized that a BP would be perfect for me. Then I decided that 2 would be better. I am thinking about breeding them once, knowing full well that there is a possibility that I would need to keep all of the offspring if I cannot find a good home for them.

That is all years down the road, as I need to get set up for the first 2 first. Between this site and Youtube, I have come up with a list of supplies and equipment that I need before I can bring a snake home. And I need to get the divorce finalized so I can get back on my feet and in to a place of my own.

So I went from never having a thought of owning a snake to possibly having 10 or more in the next 10 years.

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You used the site like were all suppose to.. You didnt put the cart berfore the horse, first buying snakes without knowing what to keep them in... I literally read posts where people buy a BP, go home, log in and ask what to do on here.. I sit with my mouth hung open in disbelief. Hahahhaha

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Originally Posted by Ax01

no, you're not nuts. these are nuts:

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...fibre-noci.jpg

i roll my eyes when someone says or post, i've been doing alotta research and then ask the most basic husbandry or snake question. lol really? you couldn't find the most basic answers during your research? i'll help u out but slow down. also first time, first year keepers/breeders scare me. i wanna breed, but i'm taking my time and doing it in steps like this:

1. research BP/snake care
2. shop
3. keep
4. continue to learn and care
5. breed responsibly

Edit: even with some breeding size females, i'm taking my sweet time to reach step 5 and that's fine. :)

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Yeah, it floors me when people look like a nut job but act like everything is fine hahahaha

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Originally Posted by Mr Sully

I literally read posts where people buy a BP, go home, log in and ask what to do on here.. I sit with my mouth hung open in disbelief. Hahahhaha

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Gotta be blunt, some people are 100% just plain *unintelligent when it comes to caring for animals.

*stupid

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Originally Posted by redshepherd

It always disturbs me too! You're not nuts, the jar of nuts in your kitchen is nuts. HAHA

"I'm planning on breeding and getting maybe 10~20 ball pythons and making it into a side-business, but I don't have a snake yet. ANY TIPS?????? WHERE DO I START"

:please: This is me praying for them and any animals that fall into their hands.

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Totally unbelievable..... Sounds like they need Dr Phil to send them to a class that will help exercise using some common sense.

in college i saw a lot of this with my friends and dogs: kids on their own for the first time, finally move off campus, then BOOM dog. almost every dog i saw around my college was so poorly trained they were down-right scary. they would charge the front door, they were overly territorial, they had serious dominance issues, they weren't house-broken, and worst of all: they. did. not. listen. these kids were plain unfit to care for these rescue dogs. granted i have never in my life owned or really been around dogs, and don't know much, but i know that what i saw was unfit owners. it's like they couldn't take 24hrs to really think about what taking in an animal means, or just stop being selfish for a while to see that maybe it's not right for animal.

I'm actually a huge proponent of regulating reptile breeding. If it were to be regulated I feel it would help prevent the individuals interested solely in the money but I could be wrong. Anyone else feel this might be a step in the right direction for responsible reptile breeders? The logical part of my brain also thinks that if this somehow involved teaching selling to responsible keepers it might help prevent species specific regulations... though I know nothing about law so definitely don't quote me on that.

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Originally Posted by kxr

I'm actually a huge proponent of regulating reptile breeding. If it were to be regulated I feel it would help prevent the individuals interested solely in the money but I could be wrong. Anyone else feel this might be a step in the right direction for responsible reptile breeders? The logical part of my brain also thinks that if this somehow involved teaching selling to responsible keepers it might help prevent species specific regulations... though I know nothing about law so definitely don't quote me on that.

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Imo there should be some kind of regulation or permit required to breed any animal, maybe with a $100~$500 registration fee, depending on the species... LOL. It's a super long shot, but it would at least filter out the random ding dongs who impulsively buy 10 ball pythons for kicks, or throw their two random dogs together for a quick buck. Something like that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kxr

I'm actually a huge proponent of regulating reptile breeding. If it were to be regulated I feel it would help prevent the individuals interested solely in the money but I could be wrong. Anyone else feel this might be a step in the right direction for responsible reptile breeders? The logical part of my brain also thinks that if this somehow involved teaching selling to responsible keepers it might help prevent species specific regulations... though I know nothing about law so definitely don't quote me on that.

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Off toic but I have to answer this.

When does the government involved in one's business has ever solved anything or helped? :confusd:

I do not need anyone from the government to tell me what I can keep however they do already and therefore I have limitation that I abide by even if in many cases the law make no sense. The last thing I need is people to tell me how to keep my animals based on what they see fit and think they know :rolleyes:......if your husbandry method does not fit their view they will either make you change everything you do and you know work or cease your animals even if you have been doing what you have been doing successfully 10, 15, 20 years...............I don't think so.

Around here USFW doing inspections do know even recognize so basic species so imagine having your animal seized because of that. So imagine what they know about specific species care, and I should let them in charge?

A little example of complete nonsense in France you have a certificate required by the government if you own 25 snakes or more. Now you can own 24 snakes for 2 decades properly caring for them but you decide to add one more and you have to have that certificate.

You have to go and be trained by a professional breeder, usually the cost is $500 to $1000, you must wright an essay on the species, you must be interviewed by a panel of government workers and allow them to come on your premises as they please without any warning, should fail to obtain that certificate they can seize your animals. What makes them think that now that you have 25 snakes you are not capable of caring for them when you have done so with 24? It's just one more way for the government to make money and get involved in your life, nothing more and it really does not accomplish anything.

Usually laws and restriction creates an underground market that I am sure is present in France.

The people not researching animals is not new, many people own dog breeds that are not fit for their life style, they see a puppy they get it not doing any research on needs, temperament, etc, same for other animals.


Education is key not regulation and you will find that usually your biggest issue are not the breeders, yes there are bad seeds here and there but I am pretty sure the number of bad owners or those not researching the animal that they acquire is far greater than the number of bad breeders.

Also in the US we have been struggling for years being under attack from animal right activists so we do not need more regulations that will open the door for more laws and regulations until those animal activists succeed with their agenda.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Off toic but I have to answer this.

When does the government involved in one's business has ever solved anything or helped? :confusd:

I do not need anyone from the government to tell me what I can keep however they do already and therefore I have limitation that I abide by even if in many cases the law make no sense. The last thing I need is people to tell me how to keep my animals based on what they see fit and think they know :rolleyes:......if your husbandry method does not fit their view they will either make you change everything you do and you know work or cease your animals even if you have been doing what you have been doing successfully 10, 15, 20 years...............I don't think so.

Around here USFW doing inspections do know even recognize so basic species so imagine having your animal seized because of that. So imagine what they know about specific species care, and I should let them in charge?

A little example of complete nonsense in France you have a certificate required by the government if you own 25 snakes or more. Now you can own 24 snakes for 2 decades properly caring for them but you decide to add one more and you have to have that certificate.

You have to go and be trained by a professional breeder, usually the cost is $500 to $1000, you must wright an essay on the species, you must be interviewed by a panel of government workers and allow them to come on your premises as they please without any warning, should fail to obtain that certificate they can seize your animals. What makes them think that now that you have 25 snakes you are not capable of caring for them when you have done so with 24? It's just one more way for the government to make money and get involved in your life, nothing more and it really does not accomplish anything.

Usually laws and restriction creates an underground market that I am sure is present in France.

The people not researching animals is not new, many people own dog breeds that are not fit for their life style, they see a puppy they get it not doing any research on needs, temperament, etc, same for other animals.


Education is key not regulation and you will find that usually your biggest issue are not the breeders, yes there are bad seeds here and there but I am pretty sure the number of bad owners or those not researching the animal that they acquire is far higher than the number of bad breeder.

Also in the US we have been struggling for years being under attack from animal right activist so we do not need more regulations that will open the door for them to succeed in the long term.

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Let me rephrase this a bit, I more so meant that you should need a permit in order to become a breeder. So like you pay a fee, take classes, write a test and then you become permitted to breed reptiles. These classes could focus solely on the ethical side of animal breeding and there doesn't need to be any regulation involved. Sure it won't stop everyone in it for the money but it would stop the fly by nighters.

You could bring up the fact that without any regulation there is no way to find out whether breeders took the course... This is a fatal flaw with my suggestion so something would have to be worked out if it were to be implemented irl but all of this discussion is hypothetical anyway.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Off toic but I have to answer this.

When does the government involved in one's business has ever solved anything or helped? :confusd:

I do not need anyone from the government to tell me what I can keep however they do already and therefore I have limitation that I abide by even if in many cases the law make no sense. The last thing I need is people to tell me how to keep my animals based on what they see fit and think they know :rolleyes:......if your husbandry method does not fit their view they will either make you change everything you do and you know work or cease your animals even if you have been doing what you have been doing successfully 10, 15, 20 years...............I don't think so.

Around here USFW doing inspections do know even recognize so basic species so imagine having your animal seized because of that. So imagine what they know about specific species care, and I should let them in charge?

A little example of complete nonsense in France you have a certificate required by the government if you own 25 snakes or more. Now you can own 24 snakes for 2 decades properly caring for them but you decide to add one more and you have to have that certificate.

You have to go and be trained by a professional breeder, usually the cost is $500 to $1000, you must wright an essay on the species, you must be interviewed by a panel of government workers and allow them to come on your premises as they please without any warning, should fail to obtain that certificate they can seize your animals. What makes them think that now that you have 25 snakes you are not capable of caring for them when you have done so with 24? It's just one more way for the government to make money and get involved in your life, nothing more and it really does not accomplish anything.

Usually laws and restriction creates an underground market that I am sure is present in France.

The people not researching animals is not new, many people own dog breeds that are not fit for their life style, they see a puppy they get it not doing any research on needs, temperament, etc, same for other animals.


Education is key not regulation and you will find that usually your biggest issue are not the breeders, yes there are bad seeds here and there but I am pretty sure the number of bad owners or those not researching the animal that they acquire is far greater than the number of bad breeders.

Also in the US we have been struggling for years being under attack from animal right activists so we do not need more regulations that will open the door for more laws and regulations until those animal activists succeed with their agenda.

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150% on the money!! :gj:

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Originally Posted by kxr

Let me rephrase this a bit, I more so meant that you should need a permit in order to become a breeder. So like you pay a fee, take classes, write a test and then you become permitted to breed reptiles. These classes could focus solely on the ethical side of animal breeding and there doesn't need to be any regulation involved. Sure it won't stop everyone in it for the money but it would stop the fly by nighters.

You could bring up the fact that without any regulation there is no way to find out whether breeders took the course... This is a fatal flaw with my suggestion so something would have to be worked out if it were to be implemented irl but all of this discussion is hypothetical anyway.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Which brings us back to where we started... Idiots ruin everything! :mad:

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Originally Posted by Mr Sully

Which brings us back to where we started... Idiots ruin everything! :mad:

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Hmm... Maybe the best solution would be to just exterminate the idiots then [emoji48]

(Kidding of course)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think we need a STICKY that says "read the Stickies before you ask a question" Hahahaha

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kxr

Hmm... Maybe the best solution would be to just exterminate the idiots then [emoji48]

(Kidding of course)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Here's a better idea!

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...894514116b.jpg

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Originally Posted by kxr

I'm actually a huge proponent of regulating reptile breeding. If it were to be regulated I feel it would help prevent the individuals interested solely in the money but I could be wrong. Anyone else feel this might be a step in the right direction for responsible reptile breeders? The logical part of my brain also thinks that if this somehow involved teaching selling to responsible keepers it might help prevent species specific regulations... though I know nothing about law so definitely don't quote me on that.

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as I often state in the fish forums, its a FINE line between wanting regulation and uncle sam grabbing the hobbies by the cajones and strangling them. You have to be careful in this scenario...while it would be better for the animals in theory, we as responsible keepers get crushed. The guv'ment doesn't make the distinction between good, so-so, and bad they just shut everything down.

I hate seeing people with red tailed catfish in a 55 gallon tank but if I ask for a ban it will most likely entail ALL south American species, not just rtc's. Same goes for snakes unfortunately.

The best practice is teaching every single person you can about proper husbandry and responsible breeding.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Off toic but I have to answer this.

When does the government involved in one's business has ever solved anything or helped? :confusd:

I do not need anyone from the government to tell me what I can keep however they do already and therefore I have limitation that I abide by even if in many cases the law make no sense. The last thing I need is people to tell me how to keep my animals based on what they see fit and think they know :rolleyes:......if your husbandry method does not fit their view they will either make you change everything you do and you know work or cease your animals even if you have been doing what you have been doing successfully 10, 15, 20 years...............I don't think so.

Around here USFW doing inspections do know even recognize so basic species so imagine having your animal seized because of that. So imagine what they know about specific species care, and I should let them in charge?

A little example of complete nonsense in France you have a certificate required by the government if you own 25 snakes or more. Now you can own 24 snakes for 2 decades properly caring for them but you decide to add one more and you have to have that certificate.

You have to go and be trained by a professional breeder, usually the cost is $500 to $1000, you must wright an essay on the species, you must be interviewed by a panel of government workers and allow them to come on your premises as they please without any warning, should fail to obtain that certificate they can seize your animals. What makes them think that now that you have 25 snakes you are not capable of caring for them when you have done so with 24? It's just one more way for the government to make money and get involved in your life, nothing more and it really does not accomplish anything.

Usually laws and restriction creates an underground market that I am sure is present in France.

The people not researching animals is not new, many people own dog breeds that are not fit for their life style, they see a puppy they get it not doing any research on needs, temperament, etc, same for other animals.


Education is key not regulation and you will find that usually your biggest issue are not the breeders, yes there are bad seeds here and there but I am pretty sure the number of bad owners or those not researching the animal that they acquire is far greater than the number of bad breeders.

Also in the US we have been struggling for years being under attack from animal right activists so we do not need more regulations that will open the door for more laws and regulations until those animal activists succeed with their agenda.

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This. Sorry I didn't see this response before I posted my own.

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Originally Posted by kxr

So like you pay a fee, take classes, write a test and then you become permitted to breed reptiles. These classes could focus solely on the ethical side of animal breeding and there doesn't need to be any regulation involved.

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And who would teach and set the standards? Deb hit it out of the park here.

Research is so easy with google OR even the search bar here but people are too lazy.....

I'm with Deb and the others on this one, I don't think regulation is the answer. From a logistical/enforcement standpoint alone, strict regulation of animal breeding would be a resource intensive nightmare. Even if you only regulate breeding via requiring a permit/license to breed, you're going to have to constantly be sweeping for unlicensed breeders to confiscate their animals to enforce it. Otherwise, what's going to stop people from just breeding without the license/permit and selling anyway? Especially if they're selling at competitive rates to licensed breeders or on a black market...

The only other alternative would be sterilizing all animals at the time of sale unless you're selling to someone already holding a license to breed, but that's putting an incredible burden of cost on breeders, not to mention isn't actually a feasible option when it comes to reptiles and other animals that aren't easily or safely sterilized.

It basically comes down to the problem you already see with licensed dog breeding right now. Sure, the ethical breeders are registered and have licenses and meet certain standards of animal welfare as set by their jurisdiction, but that doesn't stop the backyard breeder from offering their "purebred" puppies for a steal on Craigslist. The only way to stop that would be to send an agent in to confiscate the animals, and doing that from every unregulated/unlicensed person would be impossible just from a man-hours standpoint.

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Originally Posted by Nellasaur

I'm with Deb and the others on this one, I don't think regulation is the answer. From a logistical/enforcement standpoint alone, strict regulation of animal breeding would be a resource intensive nightmare. Even if you only regulate breeding via requiring a permit/license to breed, you're going to have to constantly be sweeping for unlicensed breeders to confiscate their animals to enforce it. Otherwise, what's going to stop people from just breeding without the license/permit and selling anyway? Especially if they're selling at competitive rates to licensed breeders or on a black market...

The only other alternative would be sterilizing all animals at the time of sale unless you're selling to someone already holding a license to breed, but that's putting an incredible burden of cost on breeders, not to mention isn't actually a feasible option when it comes to reptiles and other animals that aren't easily or safely sterilized.

It basically comes down to the problem you already see with licensed dog breeding right now. Sure, the ethical breeders are registered and have licenses and meet certain standards of animal welfare as set by their jurisdiction, but that doesn't stop the backyard breeder from offering their "purebred" puppies for a steal on Craigslist. The only way to stop that would be to send an agent in to confiscate the animals, and doing that from every unregulated/unlicensed person would be impossible just from a man-hours standpoint.

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I can appreciate this argument. It would really be a lot easier if everyone was responsible enough to educate themselves in basic animal care before they decide they're going to have 10+ animals to breed... To bad that will never happen. :(


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Originally Posted by kxr

I can appreciate this argument. It would really be a lot easier if everyone was responsible enough to educate themselves in basic animal care before they decide they're going to have 10+ animals to breed... To bad that will never happen. :(


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Nope it wil never happen.. I don't discuss politics anymore because for one I can't swollow the stupidity of some people these days and two I need to keep some kind of human contact:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Bless the MODS of this page but im done helping idiots hahhahaha..3 Clueless people buying Snakes without a clue of what day it is within the last 15 minutes is enough to teach me a leason :rofl::rofl::rofl: