Do ball pythons require belly heat?

Hi all
I am currently in the process of buying everything i need for a baby ball python i am hoping to get at the end of the month. I have a wooden vivarium 24" to put him in.
However, i have done some research and nearly everything recommends i use a heat mat or rock as ball pythons require belly heat. My pet shop refuses to sell me a heat mat saying that its a fire hazard and suggest just a heat bulb and insist that this is adequate. Is this true or should i buy a heatmat from elsewhere. Any advice is appreciated, thanks in advance. Cheers, Rob

Do they require belly heat? No.

Is it generally easier in a non-rack setup if the room has an colder ambient temp? Yes.

Heat mats are ok IF you have them regulated with a thermostat or at the very least a dimmer. Your pet store is half correct I suppose, they are a hazard if you don't regulate them, but they are far better than a heat bulb in my opinion.

I use heat mats temporarily right now until my rack system shows up, they are on a herpstat 2 thermostat and they work pretty well.

You may want to consider a ceramic heat emitter if the room you are keeping the snake in is colder, this will help you keep your ambient temps up around 80 and they emit no visible light. This will need to be on a dimmer switch however so you can dial in the ambient temps.

First off, no they do not require belly heat but it is the easiest way.
Second, heat rocks are a NO so I don't know where you gathered that but find a new source.
Sounds like your pet shop that refuses to sell you a heat mat is full of idiots. Take your money somewhere else. I they really wanted your money they would sell you a mat plus a thermostat as both are needed and work together.

Now about your housing. All wood? You are not really going to get heat to transfer through the floor to well. You are probably going to have to go with either overhead lighting or radiant heat panel.

Thanks you both for the quick response. Try yourself and type in google "Do ball pythons require belly heat" the short answer is yes.
Thanks for clearing up the heat rock business too.
I have a 75w ceramic heat bulb with gaurd on the roof of the inside and this is the only heat source i have on a £60 Habistat B1 microclimate thermostat and the reviews are good. So this is adequate? I dont want to collect the animal untill i know he has a perfect habitat to go in. I want to do everything right so any other useful tips will be so much appreciated i have bought a ball python care book. Also one more thing, do i need any supplements for the ball python like vitamins calcium etc? Cheers

Run, don't walk away from that pet shop lol. I use flexwatt for all my cages as the only heat source and they are fine. You do need to run them on t-stats though as without one, they can potentially be a fire hazard as most can get really hot and if you use cage stacks with no air gap, that can easily overheat with no t-stat.

No BPs don't need belly heat. They will do fine with an ambient temp of mid to high 80s as long as you have a cool spot in the low 80s they can get to as well.

Heat rocks are the devil and you should run from those too. Like mentioned, since you have a wooden viv, belly heat isn't going to work well for you unless you use a Kane heat mat which are made to go inside the cage but still need a t-stat. You can use a RHP or CHE but I would personally use a RHP over the CHE. Much safer.

Heat bulbs if they mean by light throwing bulb will sap the humidity out of the cage and at night, you will be stuck with no heat as you cant leave the light on 24/7. If they mean CHE as heat bulb, those will work assuming you have a hole in the top of the cage and got screening betweem the bulb and cage as those get like 500F and will instantly kill your snake if it touches that thing. You could use a cage around it inside the cage as I guess a lot EU guys do that but I wouldn't personally. Anything that hot, I wouldn't want inside my cage at all.

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Originally Posted by Fritzl

Thanks you both for the quick response. Try yourself and type in google "Do ball pythons require belly heat" the short answer is yes.
Thanks for clearing up the heat rock business too.
I have a 75w ceramic heat bulb with gaurd on the roof of the inside and this is the only heat source i have on a £60 Habistat B1 microclimate thermostat and the reviews are good. So this is adequate? I dont want to collect the animal untill i know he has a perfect habitat to go in. I want to do everything right so any other useful tips will be so much appreciated i have bought a ball python care book. Also one more thing, do i need any supplements for the ball python like vitamins calcium etc? Cheers

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That CHE will work assuming you get a warm side of around mid to high 80s and a cool side of high 70s to low 80.

And no, BPs don't need any supplements like calcium, D3 or UVB. They get their vitamins from whole prey food.

DEFINITELY stay away from heat rocks!!! I honestly don't even know why stores sell them. And yeah, don't but too much stock into what the pet shop employees are telling you. This forum is full of some extremely well educated and very experienced snake keepers. My advice is to use this forum as a guide and you will be able to provide your new snake with a great new home for many years to come.
Enjoy your snake!!

Yeah thanks guys thats why i joined this forum to be better educated by people with a passion and experience. I will take this information and use it. I will be back on here when i have the snake in the setup. I didnt join the forum to ask a couple of questions and then go again i have been informed its a long commitment so im here to stay. I will have some pics on here soon and any criticism/advice would not be taken with offence. Thanks guys.

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Originally Posted by Fritzl

Yeah thanks guys thats why i joined this forum to be better educated by people with a passion and experience. I will take this information and use it. I will be back on here when i have the snake in the setup. I didnt join the forum to ask a couple of questions and then go again i have been informed its a long commitment so im here to stay. I will have some pics on here soon and any criticism/advice would not be taken with offence. Thanks guys.

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Glad to hear it!!! I just got back into keeping snakes recently after not keeping any for many years. I used this site for research for months before joining and finally just decided to join, because I was on here all the time anyway. It's nice to be able to ask questions specific to your needs and communicate with other people with the same passion for snakes that I have. I honestly learned more since being on this site (probably about 6 months) than I had in my lifetime prior (I'm 38 years old). So I personally am extremely happy and grateful that this site exists and that so many people are willing to share their time, experience and knowledge with what are essentially strangers who share a love for our animals.

so are you guys suggesting that a radiant heat panel would work well inside a wooden vivarium? Would a regular heat mat inside the viv not work equally well?

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Originally Posted by Dumdum333

so are you guys suggesting that a radiant heat panel would work well inside a wooden vivarium? Yes

Would a regular heat mat inside the viv not work equally well?No. Think first urine and all other fluids.......

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Originally Posted by Dumdum333

so are you guys suggesting that a radiant heat panel would work well inside a wooden vivarium? Would a regular heat mat inside the viv not work equally well?

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Cant use a UTH (heat mat/under tank heater) with wood. You have to tape them to the Bottom of a Aquarium or PVC cage.
Also the wood is going to smell terrible after your snake passes Uraites and Poo a couple times. Thats a recipie for bacteria and sickness unless you covered the inside with some kind of plastic/shower enclosure/tile And im dont know..
a suggest a RHP (Pro Products Radiant Heat Panels herein NY) instead of CHE. Use the CHE until you can get a RHP but that CHE is going to dry that enclosure out fast.. You'll be trying to spray it 3 times a day just to keep Humidity about 50%. Especially if you use Butcher Paper/Newspaper for substrate. Thats what I use, easy clean up as I dont like wood chips I think it always has that smell, and im a clean freak with my house.

I can't seem to find a seller in the UK though, by che do you just mean a bulb?

Although the precise answer to BP requiring belly heat is no, the short answer would be yes. Sure is the best way to provide the proper heat gradient.

Heat bulbs, CHE (ceramic heat emitting bulbs), and radiant panels work great for basking / arboreal reptiles. For a terrestrial snake that spends most of his time in the hide they provide little thermal gradient as they heat the air, plus all the humidity problem described.

There's plenty of heat pads that are watertight and can go inside the viv, you recognize them because they look like this

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...arge_54343.jpg

It might be useful to you to find a forum of UK keepers just to see where they buy their equipment. It seems that wooden vivs are more common there than in the US, as well as the bulb-in-cage setup you describe. There might also be brands of heat mats that are designed to be used inside a viv that aren't sold outside the UK for all I know.

Incidentally, a bulb in a cage that is entirely inside the wooden viv isn't going to be nearly as bad for humidity as American keepers assume it is. The reason is that in the US the more common way to use a CHE or a heat lamp is to put it in a fixture that sits above a screen top of a tank, or above a screened-over cutout in the top of a vivarium. So the freshly heated air rises right out of a big hole in the top and takes the humidity with it. If your entire fixture is inside the viv, you won't have nearly as much loss of humidity (and heat, for that matter).

As for whether the 75 watt bulb you have is adequate, you'll just have to try it and find out what temperatures you get. If your house is 50 degrees it's probably not enough, if your house is 75 degrees it's probably way more wattage than you need. But as long as the wattage is at least adequate, your thermostat should take care of the rest.

BTW, healthy ball pythons do not need calcium or other vitamin supplements. They get everything they need from their whole prey. The only reason you would ever need to supplement would be in case of illness, and that would be only at the direction of a vet.

The main uk reptile side nowadays is RFUK . There was another equally popular forum called CaptiveBred but that one has mysteriously disappeared off the face of the earth !!

I have a Glass Tank with an UTH. Wood helps insulate so your UTH would be insulated to keep heat out. What about adding a sheet of glass or acrylic into the enclosure on the bottom under the substrate. Then you could have a UTH under the glass and above the wood. The wood underneath would then keep the heat inside the enclosure.


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Originally Posted by Coluber42

It might be useful to you to find a forum of UK keepers just to see where they buy their equipment. It seems that wooden vivs are more common there than in the US, as well as the bulb-in-cage setup you describe. There might also be brands of heat mats that are designed to be used inside a viv that aren't sold outside the UK for all I know.

Incidentally, a bulb in a cage that is entirely inside the wooden viv isn't going to be nearly as bad for humidity as American keepers assume it is. The reason is that in the US the more common way to use a CHE or a heat lamp is to put it in a fixture that sits above a screen top of a tank, or above a screened-over cutout in the top of a vivarium. So the freshly heated air rises right out of a big hole in the top and takes the humidity with it. If your entire fixture is inside the viv, you won't have nearly as much loss of humidity (and heat, for that matter).

As for whether the 75 watt bulb you have is adequate, you'll just have to try it and find out what temperatures you get. If your house is 50 degrees it's probably not enough, if your house is 75 degrees it's probably way more wattage than you need. But as long as the wattage is at least adequate, your thermostat should take care of the rest.

BTW, healthy ball pythons do not need calcium or other vitamin supplements. They get everything they need from their whole prey. The only reason you would ever need to supplement would be in case of illness, and that would be only at the direction of a vet.

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Thank you!
This got my attention now you mention it.
I am from uk and to clear something up my vivarium is wood but it has small circular vents and glass sliding on runners surely u guys seen them?
Yes, i noticed the ones i mostly see over the pond on youtube etc are like a fish tank but with a mesh lid with a lamp on top. Another thing is humidity, now in UK i have been told i dont need a humidity sensor/gauge and no need to spray as room humidity is adequate for a ball python? All the display vivariums at the pet shop have none i thought about still buying one as better safe than sorry. What you guys say on that subject? It may sound alien as its something you would have always done. I been watching alot of Brian from Snakebytestv or Animalbytes on youtube i think he is ace, he's helped me anyway.

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Originally Posted by Paty

I have a Glass Tank with an UTH. Wood helps insulate so your UTH would be insulated to keep heat out. What about adding a sheet of glass or acrylic into the enclosure on the bottom under the substrate. Then you could have a UTH under the glass and above the wood. The wood underneath would then keep the heat inside the enclosure.


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Thanks, that seems a good idea too.

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Originally Posted by Fritzl

Thank you!
This got my attention now you mention it.
I am from uk and to clear something up my vivarium is wood but it has small circular vents and glass sliding on runners surely u guys seen them?
Yes, i noticed the ones i mostly see over the pond on youtube etc are like a fish tank but with a mesh lid with a lamp on top. Another thing is humidity, now in UK i have been told i dont need a humidity sensor/gauge and no need to spray as room humidity is adequate for a ball python? All the display vivariums at the pet shop have none i thought about still buying one as better safe than sorry. What you guys say on that subject? It may sound alien as its something you would have always done. I been watching alot of Brian from Snakebytestv or Animalbytes on youtube i think he is ace, he's helped me anyway.

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Lots of people over here use vivariums with sliding doors too, but lots of them are plastic instead of wood. People do use heat tape/under tank heaters with those too, but it takes more power to heat through plastic/melamine/wood and the heater has to get hotter in order to do it.

As far as humidity is concerned, it really depends on your specific climate. Where I live, my living room has pretty much ideal temps and humidity for a BP in the summer all by itself, but in the winter it can get below 60F and 30% humidity.

I don't know about the UK, but in the US a lot of pet stores are pretty clueless about even the bare minimum of appropriate care for reptiles (the bare minimum being appropriate temps, humidity, and hiding places). And in many cases (especially smaller shops), they can actually kinda sorta get away with it too, because they're often kept relatively warm and pretty humid if they also sell fish - because the place is full of aquariums with lighting and lots of water around. So pet stores aren't really a good gauge. A digital thermometer/hygrometer is cheap and it will tell you what you need to know.

Ball pythons need heat, doesn't matter what direction it comes from, under, over, sideways, doesn't matter. What alot of people do with wooden enclosures is put in a false bottom that is made of material easier to heat through (like plastic). Just need enough room for your heat and temp probe. You can do the same on the back or side if you want. If you go that route just make sure it is sealed well, can't have urine or spilled water bowls running down on the heat or temp probe.

Personally I find rhps easier when it comes to in the enclosure heating, just screw em to the top, poke a probe in from the back of the cage a couple inches down from the rhp and call it good.

i live in london, and the humidity is definitely high enough for a BP, but using a heat lamp does dry out the vivarium so you still need to take care with water bowl placement and stuff, definitely think it's worth investing 5 quid on a digital hygrometer, especially for shedding

Belly heat is just easier for my setups. There are def other ways to do it but it works for me and my snakes.

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Originally Posted by Aste88

Although the precise answer to BP requiring belly heat is no, the short answer would be yes. Sure is the best way to provide the proper heat gradient.

Heat bulbs, CHE (ceramic heat emitting bulbs), and radiant panels work great for basking / arboreal reptiles. For a terrestrial snake that spends most of his time in the hide they provide little thermal gradient as they heat the air, plus all the humidity problem described.

There's plenty of heat pads that are watertight and can go inside the viv, you recognize them because they look like this

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...arge_54343.jpg

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You don't know how radiant heat works, do you?

Well yeah, radiant panel and on a lower amount also bulbs, do heat exposed surfaces and not just air. But if you ever stood in front of a fire will know that as soon as you turn around you don't feel the radiated heat anymore.

Since BP don't spend time basking but hiding they will not benefit much from that, thus speaking only about air heating. As said that's not the case with other reptiles.

All heat sources heat the air, inasmuch as the air is in contact with surfaces that are warm. A UTH doesn't heat the air very much because it is covered by substrate and thus insulated, and because it just isn't that warm - it can't be, or else it would be a burn risk. So basically, the total amount of heat it is introducing to the cage is just not very much.

All heat sources also produce radiant heat - but again, it's a function of what the heat source's temperature is, and how wide of an area that is spread out over. A CHE and a radiant heat panel may both have the same wattage and produce the same amount of total heat, but the CHE concentrates it in one place and therefore runs at a much higher temperature. THe RHP spreads it out over a wider area. Both of them also heat the air, because they are in contact with the air and cause convection. The other way they heat the air is that the radiant heat heats the ground and other objects underneath them, which also heats the air. A radiant heat panel is better at spreading the heat around, a CHE is better at concentrating it in one space. But that basically just has to do with their shape and the distribution of their heating elements.

By the way, if you stuck a UTH on the ceiling, that would be basically the exact same thing as a very skinny and low-power RHP.

Ball pythons sometimes do bask, BTW. Mine comes out and basks on top of his furniture under the RHP pretty much every evening. It's dark, but there's heat coming down from above. He has warm hides as well, which he uses, but he still comes out and basks under the RHP most evenings.

Basically though, it only matters that the snake has an appropriate temperature range to choose from; it doesn't matter how you provide that.

It's all a mystery to be to be fair .

Years ago I thought that I'd add a little heat to the cold end of my big Boa Viv and I stuck a huge heatmat on the end side/ panel just thinking it would help a little . Even on max heat output it made no difference . I just presumed the heat left the pad and went straight up into the roof of the Viv as it appeared to make zero difference to any of the cool end temps .


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Without the need to start a whole new thread, I have a very simple question....

Are the kingsnakes the same in regards to belly heat? They do not need belly heat as long as the ambient temps are high enough and correct? Specifically thinking of a Mexican Black Kingsnake.

that is what I have created and it works really well. you can heat with an UTH but you need to contain the heat with the enclosure, probably insulate, but all without overheating the mat. I protect the probe from urates and water spills by placing it under a glass panel. if you are interested in making one of these I can provide details.https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...2/img_8201.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...2/img_8200.jpg

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Originally Posted by Paty

I have a Glass Tank with an UTH. Wood helps insulate so your UTH would be insulated to keep heat out. What about adding a sheet of glass or acrylic into the enclosure on the bottom under the substrate. Then you could have a UTH under the glass and above the wood. The wood underneath would then keep the heat inside the enclosure.


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But, what I'm asking is this... this thread and many others have convinced me that I don't need to set up belly heat for my ball, as long as the ambient temps are correct, correct gradients, etc.

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Originally Posted by predatorkeeper87

Do they require belly heat? No.

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

First off, no they do not require belly heat but it is the easiest way.

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

No BPs don't need belly heat. They will do fine with an ambient temp of mid to high 80s as long as you have a cool spot in the low 80s they can get to as well.

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

That CHE will work assuming you get a warm side of around mid to high 80s and a cool side of high 70s to low 80.

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So, when I get my T8, I am gong to have the divider in there, with a ball on one side and a different species in the other. The other will probably be a Mexican Black Kingsnake, but not completely sure. More than likely, a colubrid of some sort. So, if I don't get the undertank heat, will that be fine for both? I don't mind spending the money to get it set up right. But, rather not if its a necessity that's not really a necessity.