Trying out a new substrate...Herptopia

I'm trying out a new substrate called "Herptopia".

I'm using "Reptichip" in my Display Cage. I wanted something that soaks up messes better then Aspen, plus something that looks more "naturalistic". Odor control is a nice "extra".
I like most tings about Reptichip, but what I don't like is that there are such huge chunks in there. I am constantly spot cleaning, and because of the big chunks I have to remove quite a lot of substrate because I want to get everything that has soaked up urine. Not just the solid urates.

Also, I find it a pain in the back to to prepare for use. Well, the preparing isn't so bad, but it will be quite "moist" for a while, and it gets the humidity up to high for my tubs until it dries out some. I don't want to drill holes in my tubs, I want a substrate that starts out "dry" and I control the humidity with how much and where I mist. I've been preparing Reptichip in a huge container and letting it dry out before using it, but yes, a pain..

So back to Herptopia. When I came across it and researched it I immediately liked that its shipped "expanded" and dry. Also, it is quite a bit finer and fluffier, no big chunks, yet no "powder". They say that during manufacturing they use a method that removes almost all the dust. There are a few videos on Youtube that show/explain it better then I can.

So far the negatives I see are #1 the price. If one has to order it online the price is higher then either Aspen or Reptichip. As of now. Currently they only offer the 24 qt (dry, expanded) size on their webpage and the shopping cart is not set up for shipping discounts on multiple bags. They have since told me that other (bigger) sizes will be available and that everything (incl. the cart) is getting overhauled. They said I should call before I place my next order. So its still in the open how economical it will be. I do think there will be less "waste" since it is easier to spot clean without removing a lot of extra substrate. I'm also willing to pay a bit more for the convenience and because I definitely like the consistency much better.

Long story short, trying it out in one tub and so far I like it. If I still do after a couple of weeks (and cleanings) I might switch over all tubs to this stuff ;)

Has anyone else used it ? Like ? Dislike ?

http://photos.imageevent.com/morgens...large/1_43.jpg

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Never used it but definitely interested to see how it goes

I use unprinted paper but am possibly interested in getting a substrate i can just spot clean. Let me know how you like it!

That stuff would drive me to the poor house in an instant. If I remember correctly, it took me 48 quarts to do 1 of my T10s. Multiply that 6 times and that would be 6 bags per cleaning I would need and I tend to throw out substrate every month or so anyways. Right now I'm using ReptiChips and I like it. I actually like the bigger chunks as it doesn't allow my bigger snakes to pack the substrate down which combined with heat from flexwatt and you got mold galore. Stuff looks better than Eco Earth though.

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

That stuff would drive me to the poor house in an instant. If I remember correctly, it took me 48 quarts to do 1 of my T10s. Multiply that 6 times and that would be 6 bags per cleaning I would need and I tend to throw out substrate every month or so anyways. Right now I'm using ReptiChips and I like it. I actually like the bigger chunks as it doesn't allow my bigger snakes to pack the substrate down which combined with heat from flexwatt and you got mold galore. Stuff looks better than Eco Earth though.

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Yes, you would need quite a bit more then I do ;)

I'm still hopeful the price will be more economical with larger sized bags and/or shipping discounts. I wish a store nearby would sell it, or perhaps I can buy at a reptile show.

When I had my big Neodesha 4 ft cages, I used to use Eco Earth. Perhaps it was a different brand name, but it came in those "bricks" you had to add water to. And it was fine, like dirt. The big Ball Pythons did tend to pack it down when it was "moist" but I never had mold grow on it. Not even in the Brazilian Rainbow Boa cage, which had to be kept very humid. Maybe its just certain brands, though ? Or my snakes weren't big enough.

The Herptopia is very different from that, though. While its finer then Reptichip it doesn't compact easily. It stays "fluffy" for lack of better words. I tried to push it down and it keeps "springing" up. So far I like it better then Reptichip, but that is because it seems to work better for me with the tubs I have. I don't have "holes" in my tubs so I don't want substrate that is even a little wet before putting it in. I need dry substrate and it takes me up to 10 days of daily turning and mixing the reptichips in the big rubbermaid before its dry enough to use. Just annoying, plus I don't like the huge chips. If they could be just a little smaller..

Since I still have a whole bunch of Reptichip I will continue to use that for my bigger display cage. The additional humidity dissipates faster and easier in the cage then in the tubs, so it works quite well.

My collection is fairly small, so price is not as critical for me as it is for some. But I don't want to over pay , either. If I end up liking this substrate as much as I think I will, I want to see at least a shipping discount and bigger bags before I'll make the switch.

I will update this thread with any pros and cons as time goes by ;)

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Originally Posted by zina10

Yes, you would need quite a bit more then I do ;)

I'm still hopeful the price will be more economical with larger sized bags and/or shipping discounts. I wish a store nearby would sell it, or perhaps I can buy at a reptile show.

When I had my big Neodesha 4 ft cages, I used to use Eco Earth. Perhaps it was a different brand name, but it came in those "bricks" you had to add water to. And it was fine, like dirt. The big Ball Pythons did tend to pack it down when it was "moist" but I never had mold grow on it. Not even in the Brazilian Rainbow Boa cage, which had to be kept very humid. Maybe its just certain brands, though ? Or my snakes weren't big enough.

The Herptopia is very different from that, though. While its finer then Reptichip it doesn't compact easily. It stays "fluffy" for lack of better words. I tried to push it down and it keeps "springing" up. So far I like it better then Reptichip, but that is because it seems to work better for me with the tubs I have. I don't have "holes" in my tubs so I don't want substrate that is even a little wet before putting it in. I need dry substrate and it takes me up to 10 days of daily turning and mixing the reptichips in the big rubbermaid before its dry enough to use. Just annoying, plus I don't like the huge chips. If they could be just a little smaller..

Since I still have a whole bunch of Reptichip I will continue to use that for my bigger display cage. The additional humidity dissipates faster and easier in the cage then in the tubs, so it works quite well.

My collection is fairly small, so price is not as critical for me as it is for some. But I don't want to over pay , either. If I end up liking this substrate as much as I think I will, I want to see at least a shipping discount and bigger bags before I'll make the switch.

I will update this thread with any pros and cons as time goes by ;)

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I hated Eco Earth. It was dusty if it dried out and for my boas, it grew mold. Sounds like you got the ReptiChips too wet. I just did that with this new batch I mixed up. I added too much water and now in my retic cage, I have to turn the stuff daily and in the morning I got a nice sheet of dew on the front glass doors lol. The first batch I mixed up was fine as I didn't use that much water.

And yeah if it works, great. Everyone has stuff that works better for them and their set ups. I need bigger chunk stuff that holds humidity more as I keep my boas and retics around 80% humidity 24/7. The BP I keep at around 70% and the dumerils is kept around 50% but she seems to like it more as she LOVES to sit in her water bowl at night after her nightly rounds around the cage lol.

Its a good thing we have to many choices to pick from nowadays :)

You are right, there are so many different needs. Not only do different kinds of reptiles have differing needs, but it also depends on the individual animal as well as the setup. And the owners preferences...lol

My first batch of reptichip I got WAY to wet. What a mess that was...

This time I used Justin K.'s method and that was far better. It ended up perfect for a cage, but still to "humid" for my tubs.

What he does is fill a large sink (like a utility sink) with water and then dunks the entire big brick under water for about 10 seconds (I counted, lol). A bunch of bubbles will come up. Then he turns it around and dunks it again for about 10 seconds. Then he holds it over the sink and lets most of the water run off. (gosh, it is getting heavy at that point, too, lol) Then he leaves it sitting on its side in a big container and simply waits for around a minute or so.

You can then just easily pull it apart. Only in the very middle did I still have a bit of dry/compacted pieces. They were small and I could easily pull them apart. There is a video about it on youtube..

Eco Earth comes both as bricks and as loose coco fiber.

It would be interesting to compare the Herptopia, CaribSea Aquatics Coco Soft, and Zoo Med's Eco Earth loose coco fiber to see if there's a difference in the products other than price.

That Herptopia stuff looks a lot more chunky compared to the Eco Earth. Eco Earth reminds me of coffee grounds with how fine it is. Never heard of Caribsea Aquatic stuff. Now I gotta go google it!!

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Originally Posted by bcr229

Eco Earth comes both as bricks and as loose coco fiber.

It would be interesting to compare the Herptopia, CaribSea Aquatics Coco Soft, and Zoo Med's Eco Earth loose coco fiber to see if there's a difference in the products other than price.

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That would be interesting !!

I did a quick google check. CaibSea "could" be the same or similar, however the price is even higher when you factor in shipping. No savings there, at least none I can see. Unless they offer bigger sizes and free shipping.

Eco Earth loose also looks similar. I think Brian from BHB Reptiles made a comparison. He didn't say "what" he compared the Herptopia to, but there was a bag of Eco Earth nearby I think ? If that is what it is, there was a lot more of the fine stuff in it and it didn't soak up liquids half as well. I would still like to do my own comparison though. Could be cheaper, esp. if Herptopia ends up not making different sizes or better prices on shipping.

There is one other substrate that looks almost the same in pictures. Its called "Kritter's Crumble All Natural Coconut Husk Fiber Reptile Substrate and Small Animal Bedding - Fine". I did order one bag of it through Amazon. Just to compare those 2. But it would also not be a savings. Costs about the same, quart for quart.

I'm still hoping that Herptopia will make the changes to sizes and shipping, in case I end up really liking it ;)

The chunky form of that Caribsea stuff looks pretty good but DANG, it's $30 for a 24 quart bag!! That would be like $360 every month or so in just substrate!! Not to mention, I already overpay on my food as I haven't gotten around to getting a small chest freezer and just ordering 6 months food at a time online.

Yeah, its quite expensive !!

There is also a chunky form of that Kritters Crumble stuff. Saw it on Amazon. I ordered the "fine" because that is what I was trying to find..hehe.
The fine was $15.99 incl. prime shipping for 21 quarts. So again, not a real savings over Herptopia. But there is that prime shipping...
I'm getting it on Wednesday and then I will make a side by side comparison of those 2 !

Edited to say, the "coarse" Kritters Crumble costs the same then the fine. In the pictures it looks a lot like Reptichip. Some people mentioned in the reviews that it arrives somewhat "moist". (the fine stuff anyway). The Herptopia was completely dry. I will update ;)

Yeah, for me, ReptiChips is just much more economical as I go through around a brick and a half a month which amounts to about $30. Plus I like the chunkier stuff as it just seems there would less stuff having a chance of getting into the nostrils of my snakes when they decide they want to make tunnels haha.

I think my next bedding trial will be either pro coco or Plant !t coco chips. Both seem to be in the exact same size and package as reptichip but for $11/block vs $15-20/block. I'll be sure to post reviews once I try it out, which might not be for a bit. I've still got a block and 1/4 of reptichip left before I'm out


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I had to order dog food anyway, so I added a small bag of Zoomed Eco Earth loose to the order !

I will compare all 3 (Zoomed, Herptopia, Kritter) and then I will update ;) The Zoomed would be cheaper then Herptopia, but if it does have more dust or more of that ultra fine stuff, then I will stick with Herptopia. I don't really like that powdery, fine stuff.

I should just put Reptichip through some kind of shredder to make the chunks smaller and then I would be happy, LOL !!

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Originally Posted by jmcrook

I think my next bedding trial will be either pro coco or Plant !t coco chips. Both seem to be in the exact same size and package as reptichip but for $11/block vs $15-20/block. I'll be sure to post reviews once I try it out, which might not be for a bit. I've still got a block and 1/4 of reptichip left before I'm out


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You are right, it is the same stuff ! And if I had stayed with Reptichip I would have went with the Plant it coco chips. Even cheaper ;)

Just bought a brick of pro coco to try it out. I've used zoo med eco earth before and liked it. No mold issues or anything but one time my retic missed his rat and got a mouth full of eco earth. He couldn't get it out on his own but a q-tip got it out easily.

Here is a quick update for whomever may be interested ;) Here is the promised comparison.

I purchased the Zoomed Eco Earth loose substrate and the Kritters Crumble "fine". I didn't get the Caribsea because it costs more then any of the others, so its not interesting to me.

In the picture you will see.. left top: Zoomed Eco Earth, right top: Kritters Crumble fine, left bottom: ReptiChip, right bottom: Herptopia


http://photos.imageevent.com/morgens...y/large/s5.jpg

As you can see, the Zoomed Eco Earth loose substrate is extremely fine. Just a fine powder. Doesn't absorb as well as the ReptiChip or Herptopia.

The Kritters Crumble is quite strange. Its mostly very fine but has many of these short, fine "splinters". They look like the "hairs" of the coconut that are in the other coco substrates, but they are "stabby" for lack of better words. When you hold it in your hand and close your wrist, it feels like very fine splinters. A very uncomfortable feeling. Also, the Kritters Crumble arrived "moist". Not a fan of the smell either, both the Kritters Crumble and the Zoomed didn't smell as pleasantly "earthy" as the Herptopia and ReptiChip. They didn't smell bad per say, just different. Didn't test absorption of Kritters Crumble because it arrived moist and quite frankly I don't like it anyway.

The ReptiChip is quite chunky. Not a lot of dust once moistened to loosen it up. Absorbs well.

Herptopia is chunkier then Zoomed Eco Earth, yet it is soft and fluffy. Not powdery. Doesn't compact down easily. Not a lot of dust. Absorbs well.


Side by side of Herptopia and Reptichip

http://photos.imageevent.com/morgens...y/large/s2.jpg


Side by side of Herptopia and Kritters Crumble"fine"

http://photos.imageevent.com/morgens...y/large/s4.jpg


Side by side of Herptopia and Zoomed Eco Earth loose

http://photos.imageevent.com/morgens...y/large/s3.jpg


I've been using the Herptopia in all of my tubs for a few days now. Had a few "clean ups". It absorbed the urine VERY well, just a small dark spot and some urates. Very easy to spot clean because easy to see what part was soiled (darker). With the aspen up to a quarter of the tub would be "soaked". (mine know how to open the flood gates..) Cut down on smell, I normally could "smell" when a snake made a mess on the aspen. Not this time.

http://photos.imageevent.com/morgens...p/large/s6.jpg


The snakes don't seem to mind the change. The first day they "burrowed" a bit, now they are resting. Didn't keep them from breeding, either. Fed the little one, she ate just fine, no problems. The big ones get fed on Sunday.

Everything said and done, I do like Herptopia a lot. Especially for the tubs. I also like Reptichip, but more so for the big display cage. The big chunks just make spot cleaning a bit more difficult, because the chips range from light to dark colored, so its harder to tell which ones have absorbed urine or are just naturally darker. I just grab a bunch of substrate around the mess to make sure I get it all. Plus the Reptichip has to be wetted down to expand and then stays moist for to long to be used in my tubs. Even just slightly moist raises the humidity to high in my tubs. I prefer dry substrate to start with, so that I control the humidity by how much and where I mist. For the cage the Reptichip is perfect, though.

While the Zoomed isn't a bad price, I don't like the consistency and smell. It also doesn't absorb as well and packs down to much. I mixed the bag into my Reptichip substrate container, so that it doesn't go to waste.

Now, the Kritters Crumble I dislike in every way. So much so that I'm just going to toss it. I don't even want to mix it in with my other substrate. This spikey feeling is just unpleasant and I don't want any of those splintery things ending up in my snakes vents, noses or wherever else.

Still hoping Herptopia will add larger bags to their inventory and offer shipping discounts, but unless some problems come up (in which case I will update) I am pretty sure I'm sticking with it for my tubs !

Hope that helps for anyone that was interested to see the differences in the "coco" substrates.

:)

Thanks for all the info!! I use ReptiChips and am happy with this substrate, but I'm thinking I will look into the Herptopia after reading this. Thanks again!

Update:

I promised to update as time went on, so here we go.

I still like Herptopia for the fact that it isn't as chunky as Reptichip and because it arrives expanded and dry.

But I have found one issue that is both a positive but also a negative for me. It is fluffy and doesn't compact down, which is nice.

However, because it is SO fluffy and light, the heavier snakes tend to push it around and aside and then lay on the bare tub. My smaller snake doesn't do this, though.

So I have decided to try something else. I've mixed my Reptichips with Herptopia. About 50/50. (I already had a brick of Reptichips expanded in a big container) I'm hoping this combination will perform better for me. So far, I like it.
I'm just going to have to expand a brick of Reptichip and mix it with Herptopia. And then let it dry out for a few days before using it.

If anything changes, or I run into problems, I will update :)

Oh, btw. If I should be so lucky to end up with hatchlings, they will probably be on Herptopia, rather then the mix.

Yeah, I always have my "substrate" tub will premixed ReptiChips in it. I just leave the top off and stir everyday for a few days to dry it out. Then put the lid back on. That when I need it, its already pretty dry and I can just mix a glass of water into it to get it right. Because we all have "those" batches where it was WAY too much water and you got steamed glass doors for days haha.

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

Yeah, I always have my "substrate" tub will premixed ReptiChips in it. I just leave the top off and stir everyday for a few days to dry it out. Then put the lid back on. That when I need it, its already pretty dry and I can just mix a glass of water into it to get it right. Because we all have "those" batches where it was WAY too much water and you got steamed glass doors for days haha.

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Yes, especially in the racks that have tubs with no extra air holes. Whew..steam bath time !! ;)

After trying Herptopia for about a month, I like it a lot. Spot cleaning is very easy, and liquids do not spread very far.


The only downside is that it wicks up liquid so well, my ball python started peeing in his hide instead of the cool side of his tub. He used to sit on top of his hide waiting for cleaning anytime he wet the substrate; but now I guess it doesn't feel damp to him anymore, so he couldn't be bothered to take it outside.

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Originally Posted by Sallos

After trying Herptopia for about a month, I like it a lot. Spot cleaning is very easy, and liquids do not spread very far.


The only downside is that it wicks up liquid so well, my ball python started peeing in his hide instead of the cool side of his tub. He used to sit on top of his hide waiting for cleaning anytime he wet the substrate; but now I guess it doesn't feel damp to him anymore, so he couldn't be bothered to take it outside.

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Sorry, but that is kind of funny...

That is like my horse. It never fails, if I put a nice layer of wood shavings in her stall, she just pees and poops in it.
If there are no shavings inside, she just goes outside. Go figure ;)

Zina and Sallos I appreciate all the feedback on your use of Herptopia. I was thinking about making the change to it now that I've gotten my permanent PVC enclosures and your experience with the product is very helpful. Thank you.

Stuff sounds good, I have only 1 ball and he is in a T8 that is displayed. I love the natural look of things so I might have to get this!

Was reading up more on herptopia and looks like it will be called a different name, hopefully they'll do bulk sizes!

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Originally Posted by EWC88

Was reading up more on herptopia and looks like it will be called a different name, hopefully they'll do bulk sizes!

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Yes, BHB will be selling it under a new name ;)