Why does she insist on being so cold?

So my house is around 60-65°. My 800g female HAD a 90° hotspot and it was 80 on the other end, but she kept squishing herself up against the glass on the cold side, so I rearranged things to add more cover. She still did it. So I lowered temps. She still did it. Now it's about 65-70 on the cold side and 80 on the warm side and she's still acting like it's too hot. I've never ever had a snake insist so strongly on being cold. She wanders at night and has housing places all along the gradient but she always chooses to sit in the coldest possible area. She acts fine and I do bring it back up to normal temps after she eats just to make sure she digests, but she wants to be cold and I don't understand it. What could make a bp so insistent on being cold? There is a male, nearby but separate enclosure, and I hear they prefer cooler temps when ovulating, but that low? That doesn't seem right, though I've never bred. I have had ball pythons for literally my entire life, but I've never had any snake ever do that

Yes, she has three matching hides now. Was two before but I added another. All the exact same and there is fake foliage in between them. And if anything, the cold side she chooses is more exposed than the warm side is. Also, I have digital probes and two heat guns. All read the same

They're snakes. They do what they want lol. As long as you offer the same kind of hides on the hot and cool side, then the snake will go to what it needs. One of my boas almost never goes to the hot side no matter what temp you make it. I just gave up and set it the same as the other boas and let her do her thing. I do catch her over there once in a great while though but its like the second coming of the messiah if you see it lol.

Because they chose the cooler end does not mean you should lower your temps to unhealthy range, they thermo-regulate themselves or it could be a security issue as well.

Get your temperatures back to healthy range 75 80 on the cool side and 88-92 on the warm side, after that just leave he be and thermo-regulate as she wishes.

You MUST provide proper husbandry, the temps you are providing are not within proper range for the species and unless you want to start experiencing some issues I would suggest that you change your temps and make sure you measure them at the surface of the substrate with a digital thermometer.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Because they chose the cooler end does not mean you should lower your temps to unhealthy range, they thermo-regulate themselves or it could be a security issue as well.

Get your temperatures back to healthy range 75 80 on the cool side and 88-92 on the warm side, after that just leave he be and thermo-regulate as she wishes.

You MUST provide proper husbandry, the temps you are providing are not within proper range for the species and unless you want to start experiencing some issues I would suggest that you change your temps and make sure you measure them at the surface of the substrate with a digital thermometer.

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As I said, I know my temps are what I said they are. I checked multiple times with multiple methods and she's clearly not doing so for security reasons. She wants to be colder, she's not trying to hide more or better. I can tell when a snake is tryingto get colder or trying to hide or when they're stressed. She WANTS to be cold, not hide. She feels she needs to be cold so am allowing her to thermoregulate herself by letting her be as cold as she wants, though 65 is where I draw the line no matter what she says. She avoids the warmer side and is just as active as before and acts exactly the same as before aside from wanting to be cold. She is healthy and well cared for. I just want to know if there is some biological or natural reason she would feel the need to be THAT cold. I am not worried about her at all. She wants be to cold, it must be for a reason. And I want to know what that reason is. She is fine. She is well cared for. I do NOT need to raise my temps if she is the one who thinks she needs to be cooler. I am allowing her the temps she desires. I just want to know why she might want to be that cold. If it were too cold then she would be on the warm side now, trying desperately to get warmer

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Originally Posted by TurkeyPython

As I said, I know my temps are what I said they are. I checked multiple times with multiple methods and she's clearly not doing so for security reasons. She wants to be colder, she's not trying to hide more or better. I can tell when a snake is tryingto get colder or trying to hide or when they're stressed. She WANTS to be cold, not hide. She feels she needs to be cold so am allowing her to thermoregulate herself by letting her be as cold as she wants, though 65 is where I draw the line no matter what she says. She avoids the warmer side and is just as active as before and acts exactly the same as before aside from wanting to be cold. She is healthy and well cared for. I just want to know if there is some biological or natural reason she would feel the need to be THAT cold. I am not worried about her at all. She wants be to cold, it must be for a reason. And I want to know what that reason is. She is fine. She is well cared for. I do NOT need to raise my temps if she is the one who thinks she needs to be cooler. I am allowing her the temps she desires. I just want to know why she might want to be that cold

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Without trying to sound harsh, you don't know exactly what she wants. They require the cool side to thermoregulate which is fair enough, she's chosen that side. But you as an owner can't read that she wants the temperatures this low. It's just not healthy. If you put the temperatures back to normal she still has her choice. Some snakes just pick a favorite side, but you can't keep lowering the temperatures to try force her to the warm side.

Problem is 65 is too cold for them period. If she is willingly sitting on the spot that is 65F, there is something drastically wrong with your set up. Got any pics? Anything below 75F and you are risking an RI. Do you have a bright light on the hot side of the cage or something else that might be scaring her? I must have missed that you left it at 65-70 on the cool side. Raise the temps back to 78 on the cool side and 90 on the hot side. Maybe try and switch the hot side to the side she likes to sit on and see if she then moves to the new cool side. And also is this a glass tank? Do you have all 3 sides covered? Do you have the top covered? Like I said, a picture would help a lot more.

Temps that low (65-70) will cause RI no doubt... Why she wants to be cold I have no clue but I do know she will become sick eventually as they are not snakes that can servive those temps for long without health issues.

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Originally Posted by montymiow

Without trying to sound harsh, you don't know exactly what she wants. They require the cool side to thermoregulate which is fair enough, she's chosen that side. But you as an owner can't read that she wants the temperatures this low. It's just not healthy. If you put the temperatures back to normal she still has her choice. Some snakes just pick a favorite side, but you can't keep lowering the temperatures to try force her to the warm side.

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She is clearly choosing temps. I am not forcing her onto the warm side, I'm letting her choose what temperature range she wants. A healthy snake in a good temp range will use the entire enclosure and will utilize both sides. How do you think people even came up with the idea that ball pythons need a 80-90° range? They come up with that because it's the range most utilized by most ball pythons. If that's not the range she wants, then it's not the range she wants. How can you even know what is and isn't a healthy range? If you saw a snake in a tank where the snake was pressed up against the cold side, constantly there regardless of cover and hiding availability, wouldn't that just scream to you that the snake is too hot? If an animal chooses to be in an area of 100° over one if 70°, does that not say to you that the animal wishes to be warmer than 70°? Sometimes you need to learn from observation, rather than just a guideline someone decided is for everything

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

Problem is 65 is too cold for them period. If she is willingly sitting on the spot that is 65F, there is something drastically wrong with your set up. Got any pics? Anything below 75F and you are risking an RI. Do you have a bright light on the hot side of the cage or something else that might be scaring her? I must have missed that you left it at 65-70 on the cool side. Raise the temps back to 78 on the cool side and 90 on the hot side. Maybe try and switch the hot side to the side she likes to sit on and see if she then moves to the new cool side. And also is this a glass tank? Do you have all 3 sides covered? Do you have the top covered? Like I said, a picture would help a lot more.

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No bright light, it's set up exactly symmetrical from side to side, all hides are the same, there is wall on the back and hot sides, cold side is exposed. She does still moveto the cold side if they're switched. It has ZERO to do with security. The top is covered with insulated foam. I know what I'm doing. I've been keeping snakes for my entire life. Even before I was born my mother had snakes. Ball pythons and boas. All I want to know is why would she suddenly feel the need to be so cold. She is fine and healthy.

do not try to tell me to make it warmer or suggest that she is chosing that side for security or any other reason. She wants to be cold. She is perfectly healthy and behaves normally. There is nothing wrong with her. I only want to know if there is any biological reason she would choose to be so cold suddenly

Well to answer the one question you want to know, no there is no biological reason for a snake to choose a colder spot than would ever be reached in their natural environment. Leave her on the 65F col spot or lower more if you want to get her to move. The end result will something YOU will have to deal with being it a vet visit and shots for RI or a dead snake. Best of luck with whatever you do in this case.

Has anything changed around the enclosure at all around about the time she started this? We're only trying to help by mentioning temps. It's completely up to you if you don't want to take the advice.

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Originally Posted by TurkeyPython

She is clearly choosing temps. I am not forcing her onto the warm side, I'm letting her choose what temperature range she wants. A healthy snake in a good temp range will use the entire enclosure and will utilize both sides. How do you think people even came up with the idea that ball pythons need a 80-90° range? They come up with that because it's the range most utilized by most ball pythons. If that's not the range she wants, then it's not the range she wants. How can you even know what is and isn't a healthy range? If you saw a snake in a tank where the snake was pressed up against the cold side, constantly there regardless of cover and hiding availability, wouldn't that just scream to you that the snake is too hot? If an animal chooses to be in an area of 100° over one if 70°, does that not say to you that the animal wishes to be warmer than 70°? Sometimes you need to learn from observation, rather than just a guideline someone decided is for everything

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People did not come up with temperatures for Ball Pythons by taking POLLS. We get info for snakes from how their native habitat is.
People are not trying to tell you what to do, your becoming defensive and people are concerned because you said you turned your temp down to 65. That temp over time will result in sickness period.

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Originally Posted by montymiow

Has anything changed around the enclosure at all around about the time she started this? We're only trying to help by mentioning temps. It's completely up to you if you don't want to take the advice.

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No. Nothing has changed at all aside from adding the extra hide after she started behaving that way

I think that if she's choosing to be on the cold side, let her be, and I get what you're saying. But you must at least change her hot side temps back to the required range for the species, which is 87~90, with a ~90 hot spot. If she never goes there, maybe she just for an hour or two and you just don't witness it, who knows?

But I wouldn't recommend lowering the hot side lower and lower to the point that she has no choice but to be cold either way, and it will cause health issues in the long run.

Let me ask you a question. If your snake would ONLY hang out on the warm side of the tank, would you then raise the temperature and keep raising it ? Because obviously your snake "wants to be hot" since it only stays on the warm end..

Obviously (or hopefully) you would NOT do that. You would harm your snake. Just like you are harming your snake by letting the cold end get to cold. Just because the damage won't be as quick as having her burn on the hot side, doesn't mean there won't be damage.

So your reasoning is, if she got to cold, she would move to the warm side to keep from getting sick ? Hm, well, what about the many snakes that stay on the "to hot" sides, to the point of burning, without moving to the cold side ?

Maybe sometimes they don't realize what is good for them or not ? Or to late ?

And really, you "know" what she wants ? Just based on behavior ?

You know, there could be a million reasons why she is avoiding the warm end suddenly. It could be a smell, something not noticeable to you, but to her. It could be some low "current" from electricity. Just some electric buzz going through an area. Or sound waves. Or something scared her on that side one time.

You are not in her brain. Like I said, there could be many reasons "why" they do the things they do.

Like Sully said, the temperature range, humidity range etc was not just decided on by a few people on a wild whim. That is simply the needs this species have based on where they come from. And it has already been well established what happens when those needs aren't met. Its nothing good.

Now its quite obvious you will do what you want to do and to heck with all good advice. You "know" what she wants and what she wants is whats best for her.

There is absolutely no "biological" reason why she would "want" to get far colder then any Ball Python should get.

So continue to do as you wish and one can only hope that it won't be the snake paying the price for it.

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Originally Posted by zina10

Let me ask you a question. If your snake would ONLY hang out on the warm side of the tank, would you then raise the temperature and keep raising it ? Because obviously your snake "wants to be hot" since it only stays on the warm end..

Obviously (or hopefully) you would NOT do that. You would harm your snake. Just like you are harming your snake by letting the cold end get to cold. Just because the damage won't be as quick as having her burn on the hot side, doesn't mean there won't be damage.

So your reasoning is, if she got to cold, she would move to the warm side to keep from getting sick ? Hm, well, what about the many snakes that stay on the "to hot" sides, to the point of burning, without moving to the cold side ?

Maybe sometimes they don't realize what is good for them or not ? Or to late ?

And really, you "know" what she wants ? Just based on behavior ?

You know, there could be a million reasons why she is avoiding the warm end suddenly. It could be a smell, something not noticeable to you, but to her. It could be some low "current" from electricity. Just some electric buzz going through an area. Or sound waves. Or something scared her on that side one time.

You are not in her brain. Like I said, there could be many reasons "why" they do the things they do.

Like Sully said, the temperature range, humidity range etc was not just decided on by a few people on a wild whim. That is simply the needs this species have based on where they come from. And it has already been well established what happens when those needs aren't met. Its nothing good.

Now its quite obvious you will do what you want to do and to heck with all good advice. You "know" what she wants and what she wants is whats best for her.

There is absolutely no "biological" reason why she would "want" to get far colder then any Ball Python should get.

So continue to do as you wish and one can only hope that it won't be the snake paying the price for it.

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If they're only on the warm side then yes, you should raise the temperature OR give them a gradient. You shouldn't raise it to the point where it'll burn them but clearly they're either cold or only have the options of hot and cold. They need a gradient. Snakes given radiant heat don't get burned or overheat like those with belly heat do. They get a gradient, they're not forced to choose cold or hot, they're given a mid option too. If they think the cold option is too cold and the hot is too hot and they're not given a middle option they will often choose too hot. It's a completely different matter.
There is nothing that could have startled her and nothing, absolutly NOTHING has changed anywhere in or near her enclosure. Not in the entire room or any nearby. And most of those guidelines and "requirements" were based on potentially very inaccurate studies and experience.
She will NOT let herself get sick for no reason. They're not like dogs, snakes are made to know what they need. While she doesn't have a 90• hot spot anymore she still has an 80° one, which is within the supposed "proper" range. If she starts actually using those temps then I'll raise it because she wants to be warmer but she doesn't. If she did she would move closer to that side and use those temps. She doesn't and she is fine. Snakes aren't dumb. They know what temps they need and she feels she needs cooler temps. If I get one more person saying I'm an idiot I will be requesting this be closed as absolutely NO ONE has said ANYTHING useful at all. SHE IS FINE. I KNOW WHAT I'M DOING. I JUST WANT TO KNOW WHY SHE WOULD CHOOSE TO BE COLD FOR AN EXTENDED AMOUNT OF TIME.

oooooooooook... ;)

Lock the thread then - no one is giving bad advice, and at this point you're just trolling peoples' emotions who are only concerned about the snake

Take the snake and a poop sample to the vet.
Something IS different because she is doing something different (cold spot).
If you truly want to know WHY, the vet is your best source of information.

there is not one instance of people calling you, alluding to, or even mentioning the word idiot. many people here have as much experience as you (myself discluded) and are solely concerned for the animal in question, using their experience to offer advice. i suggest you at least take the advice offered as stepping stones for solving the question you could not answer yourself. we're trying to help 😀

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Originally Posted by DLena

Take the snake and a poop sample to the vet.
Something IS different because she is doing something different (cold spot).
If you truly want to know WHY, the vet is your best source of information.

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There is nothing physically wrong with her. There is no way she could have any illness or issues that would be detectable by fecal sample and there are no knowledgeable reptile or exotic vets near me

But your asking what's wrong with her?..So technically you don't know if she's physically ill. Just saying as far as I know snakes hide sickness VERY well it's worth a shot to find one remotely close as I wouldn't take a chance if I thought my ball was I'll.


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Originally Posted by BBotteron

But your asking what's wrong with her?..So technically you don't know if she's physically ill. Just saying as far as I know snakes hide sickness VERY well it's worth a shot to find one remotely close as I wouldn't take a chance if I thought my ball was I'll.


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She is not sick. What I'm saying is, is there a reason, like reproductive perhaps, that would make her seek cold? There is no way she could have gotten sick. She is healthy, but I know next to nothing about their breeding habits (I have never bred and as time goes on I'm more and more opposed to ever breeding. Breeding these snakes is becoming just as much of an issue as cat and dog overpopulation). I've dealt with sick snakes, weird snakes, and special needs snakes. She is not sick and there is nothing wrong with her

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Originally Posted by TurkeyPython

She is not sick. What I'm saying is, is there a reason, like reproductive perhaps, that would make her seek cold? There is no way she could have gotten sick. She is healthy, but I know next to nothing about their breeding habits (I have never bred and as time goes on I'm more and more opposed to ever breeding. Breeding these snakes is becoming just as much of an issue as cat and dog overpopulation). I've dealt with sick snakes, weird snakes, and special needs snakes. She is not sick and there is nothing wrong with her

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So basically you made the thread hoping for the answer "it's because of breeding season!", even though that may not be the answer?

Anyway, even if she's not sick YET, you really should put her warm side temps back to where they belong for the species (around 87~91), and let the snake handle the rest. If the husbandry is correct and you have hides everywhere, chances are the snake will be okay, whatever she decides to do. If the temps are off, things will go wrong eventually, whether or not your hides are in the perfect spot. That's basically the gist of the advice.

Wow this thread is still going lol? I really am starting to this the OP is trolling us haha.

She has been a member for a good while. She is having a hard time it seems though. She has started another thread. I wish her and her snake well.

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

They're snakes. They do what they want lol. As long as you offer the same kind of hides on the hot and cool side, then the snake will go to what it needs. One of my boas almost never goes to the hot side no matter what temp you make it. I just gave up and set it the same as the other boas and let her do her thing. I do catch her over there once in a great while though but its like the second coming of the messiah if you see it lol.

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My Boas do the same thing.

So if I get that right

1/ You want to keep a BP, but do not care to provide the proper temps required for the said species, even though unhealthy tempertures can and will create issues such as stress regurgitation, RI......That makes you wonder if you even researched the species or just bought a snake and decided to put it in a tank and see what would happen :rolleyes:

2/ You come and ask a question but won't listen to advice :rolleyes:

3/ No one agrees with you and you now want your account deleted

Typical, good luck with your snake like I always said you can lead a horse to the water......

Have you ever heard of BPs getting burns from the hotspots? That's because they sometimes don't realize the temps are too hot. Maybe your BP is doing that on the cool side. The safest thing would be to set the temps at the correct setting.