Divided tank set up

I have a 30 gallon breeder critter cage that wasn't being used. I decided to split it up and put two young bps in it. Each side.of the enclosure will be 18lx18wx12h...I have blacked out all 3 sides of the tank and have plexiglass and foil waiting to be cut to size for the top. I did a quick experiment today and threw in some aspen a hide on the hot side and a water bowl. I cover most of the top and put a 100 watt bulb over the one side that had everything in it. The accurite said it's 84 on hot side and 78 on cold with humidity of 39%...could I use a larger uth (11x17) under the tank and split it right at the divider? I was thinking of that and then putting 2 lower watt heat lamps over the center/cool side to help raise ambient Temps and have water bowl under heat lamp to raise humidty. Does anyone think this will work or have any other suggestions on what's the best way to attack this. Thanks

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Originally Posted by Elkhntr98

I have a 30 gallon breeder critter cage that wasn't being used. I decided to split it up and put two young bps in it. Each side.of the enclosure will be 18lx18wx12h...I have blacked out all 3 sides of the tank and have plexiglass and foil waiting to be cut to size for the top. I did a quick experiment today and threw in some aspen a hide on the hot side and a water bowl. I cover most of the top and put a 100 watt bulb over the one side that had everything in it. The accurite said it's 84 on hot side and 78 on cold with humidity of 39%...could I use a larger uth (11x17) under the tank and split it right at the divider? I was thinking of that and then putting 2 lower watt heat lamps over the center/cool side to help raise ambient Temps and have water bowl under heat lamp to raise humidty. Does anyone think this will work or have any other suggestions on what's the best way to attack this. Thanks

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I don't really fancy accurite things because I found them to be way off, but I've had in the past where one was accurate, so it's a hit or miss thing. Instead I found these digital temp and humidity things on amazon for around $5-7. They're accurate as far as the three that I've used.

A 100w bulb will easily give a hotspot of 95+ degrees. Ideally you would want a hot spot in the upper 80's, and with a 60w you should be able to do that unless you live up north and maybe the room gets pretty cold. Now with that you're going to run into major humidity issues, because bulbs kill humidity. You need to be careful of using an UTH & heat lamps because if you're not using a thermostat you'll easily kill your snake if something goes wrong, especially with two heating sources. A UTH would help with temperatures, but not so much ambient more than maybe a degree or two. Putting the water bowl over it would help with humidity yes, but then you're heating the drinking source for your snake.

The best way to give you advice is for you to snap a few photos of your setup. Also a PVC cage will work way better and not being open on all sides your snake will likely be much happier. The screen top along with the glass aren't that good for retaining humidity or heat for that matter. Snap a few photos for us though so we can give you better advice.

I have a 30G & 10G for my Quarantines.
Its set up just like you explained.
I control the CHE & Heat Mat with Dimmers from LOWES. ($14.99). I use a Probe thermometer over the glass where UTH is (under substrate) and have the thermometer it self on the other end for ambiant & Humidity of cool side. I use a 60 watt which has me at 78-82 and the UTH at 88-90. Humidty is 55% as i use Duraplex Plexy glass over the screens from lowes and Cardboard around 3 sides along with a Dish Towel over the top to help insulate the Plexy.
If you divide your enclosure (more like the size of 10G's ) you'll only be running those dimmers 3/4 throttle with a 60 watt depending on your room temps. Its a great way not to spend $195 on a Herpstat 2 for now which is what I run for my Display Enclosures with RHP & UTH.
PS- your idea about the Uth Split is what most do with a T8 with a divider. Works fine. Put it right in the middle for each side to share (use 1 Dimmer for it) then run 2 heat CHE's on the cool sides for ambient ove the water :gj:

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Originally Posted by Mr Sully

I have a 30G & 10G for my Quarantines.
Its set up just like you explained.
I control the CHE & Heat Mat with Dimmers from LOWES. ($14.99). I use a Probe thermometer over the glass where UTH is (under substrate) and have the thermometer it self on the other end for ambiant & Humidity of cool side. I use a 60 watt which has me at 78-82 and the UTH at 88-90. Humidty is 55% as i use Duraplex Plexy glass over the screens from lowes and Cardboard around 3 sides along with a Dish Towel over the top to help insulate the Plexy.
If you divide your enclosure (more like the size of 10G's ) you'll only be running those dimmers 3/4 throttle with a 60 watt depending on your room temps. Its a great way not to spend $195 on a Herpstat 2 for now which is what I run for my Display Enclosures with RHP & UTH.

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While I use dimmers myself, I would never ever recommend anybody run two heat sources with both being on dimmers. It's a recipe for disaster if one fails. Also with the snake only having a limited space to move, if one does fail, they won't be able to escape the heat.

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Originally Posted by Neal

While I use dimmers myself, I would never ever recommend anybody run two heat sources with both being on dimmers. It's a recipe for disaster if one fails. Also with the snake only having a limited space to move, if one does fail, they won't be able to escape the heat.

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I understand you talking about not being able to escape the small space if one fails in a smaller enclosure but whats the thinking behind not running 2 dimmers?
Whether i run 1 or 2 if they fail they max out anyway thats why i stick to a low watt CHE for smaller tanks. Without regulating a 60watt CHE on a 10 gal you can only get 84 degrees with it covered. Now the UTH is another story, if running Wide open its 113 on the glass. ...but the snake can leave the UTH and go to the CHE side and survive 84 unregulated. I think thats why its best to use the bulb size you need and never overkill.

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Originally Posted by Mr Sully

I understand you talking about not being able to escape the small space if one fails in a smaller enclosure but whats the thinking behind not running 2 dimmers?
Whether i run 1 or 2 if they fail they max out anyway thats why i stick to a low watt CHE for smaller tanks. Without regulating a 60watt CHE on a 10 gal you can only get 84 degrees with it covered. Now the UTH is another story, if running Wide open its 113 on the glass. ...but the snake can leave the UTH and go to the CHE side and survive 84 unregulated. I think thats why its best to use the bulb size you need and never overkill.

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Even a low wattage is enough to kill a snake. That 113, and your snake has nowhere to go, will kill it. I've seen it happen to people in the hobby. If you had a 40 gallon tank and it blasted wide open, the snake could go to the other side to get away from the heat.

Also just because a snake can leave, doesn't mean it will. A snake can eat and not starve, but some will starve to death. Also have you seen how snakes have burn marks from heat rocks? They can not go on them, but they do. I'm speaking in actual facts, not just because the snake can.

Well maybe I should refrain from using the 10G as one of the Quaretine enclosures ( I havent had to use both at one time anyway) and just use the 30 long as thats 4'x12"x12" and they have lots of travel room. I guess the 10 gal is another enclosure to put them into as I clean their enclosures...
Thank you for the info.. Sometimes common sense isn't so common until you've stopped to think about it :gj:
PS- your right about the Heat Rock example. In 1989 all us newbies Snake owners used were Heat Rocks and a lot of snakes back then had Brown marks on their belly. Terrible.

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Originally Posted by Mr Sully

Well maybe I should refrain from using the 10G as one of the Quaretine enclosures ( I havent had to use both at one time anyway) and just use the 30 long as thats 4'x12"x12" and they have lots of travel room. I guess the 10 gal is another enclosure to put them into as I clean their enclosures...
Thank you for the info.. Sometimes common sense isn't so common until you've stopped to think about it :gj:
PS- your right about the Heat Rock example. In 1989 all us newbies Snake owners used were Heat Rocks and a lot of snakes back then had Brown marks on their belly. Terrible.

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Yea. I mean in a bigger enclosure it's not so bad, but I always recommend the better choice first. I don't think I've ever had a dimmer malfunction on me, but I have used them in the past for lights, to give a night/day cycle, which came with heat, but it wouldn't of played a factor in death. I just use a dimmer switch to merely adjust the brightness of the light, but all my newer PVC enclosures have lighting in them for this purpose.

I also know that losing a snake due to something you could of prevented is hard, I lost my first snake last month due to an error on my part that combined with a lack of information about the rarely seen species anyways. It really bothered me and still bothers me because it was on my part. It's the first snake I've lost in 20+ years of keeping.

EDIT:
In keeping on my part, not from old age or anything.

Ok I will try out the 60 watt che...I'll try to get some pictures up whenever I can. I'm new to the forum so I am not allowed to add attachments yet...if not running on dimmers what's my next best option? Could I run a dimmer for one and thermostat for the next? Or should I run tstats on everything? Will something like the hydrofarm tstat work or do I need to bite the bullet and start picking up herpstats or ve's? Thanks for all the help already. I try to do my best to search as much as I can so I don't beat a question to death but I just haven't seen a lot on this exact subject. I do eventually plan on getting t8s...

Ok I will try out the 60 watt che...I'll try to get some pictures up whenever I can. I'm new to the forum so I am not allowed to add attachments yet...if not running on dimmers what's my next best option? Could I run a dimmer for one and thermostat for the next? Or should I run tstats on everything? Will something like the hydrofarm tstat work or do I need to bite the bullet and start picking up herpstats or ve's? Thanks for all the help already. I try to do my best to search as much as I can so I don't beat a question to death but I just haven't seen a lot on this exact subject. I do eventually plan on getting t8s...

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Originally Posted by Elkhntr98

Ok I will try out the 60 watt che...I'll try to get some pictures up whenever I can. I'm new to the forum so I am not allowed to add attachments yet...if not running on dimmers what's my next best option? Could I run a dimmer for one and thermostat for the next? Or should I run tstats on everything? Will something like the hydrofarm tstat work or do I need to bite the bullet and start picking up herpstats or ve's? Thanks for all the help already. I try to do my best to search as much as I can so I don't beat a question to death but I just haven't seen a lot on this exact subject. I do eventually plan on getting t8s...

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Well I like to give 2 opinions so people can always do what feasible at that time in their life.
I use Herpstat 2's. That way i can contorl 2 heat sources. For instance in one enclosure I have my UTH at 91 & my RHP (radiant heat panel) at 81 both off the Herpstat 2. ($195 shipped)
Also when/if you want multiple snakes you can get (2) AP T8's and run them both using 1 RHP in each for a 91 hot side wich makes the cool side in a T8 78-80 degrees.

If money is a issue right now several people use a "Jumpstart" off amazon along with a Dimmer for the 2nd heat source. Here is a link.
https://www.amazon.com/MTPRTC-ETL-Ce.../dp/B000NZZG3S

A Hydrofarm is going to give you the same chances of failure and end result as a lamp dimmer will. Both will fail wide open. You need to look at the thread on here about how to set up a 20g tank. Its helpful for newer people. There is nothing wrong with dimmers and stuff. The issue is you are starting with such a small enclosure that it is going to be hard to get any kind of temperature gradient to start with not to mention if you have a failure of any type, it will be magnified by the small space.

If you haven't gotten both snakes yet, my advice is only get 1 and use the whole tank for him. You are putting the cart in front of the horse by getting the snakes first without having proper setups and you are just asking for trouble. I never order a snake until I have the caging set up.

And for a UTH, you definitely need a t-stat. A CHE, you can get away with a dimmer but ideally, you want a good t-stat first and foremost. I personally use Herpstats.

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Originally Posted by Elkhntr98

I have a 30 gallon breeder critter cage that wasn't being used. I decided to split it up and put two young bps in it. Each side.of the enclosure will be 18lx18wx12h...I have blacked out all 3 sides of the tank and have plexiglass and foil waiting to be cut to size for the top. I did a quick experiment today and threw in some aspen a hide on the hot side and a water bowl. I cover most of the top and put a 100 watt bulb over the one side that had everything in it. The accurite said it's 84 on hot side and 78 on cold with humidity of 39%...could I use a larger uth (11x17) under the tank and split it right at the divider? I was thinking of that and then putting 2 lower watt heat lamps over the center/cool side to help raise ambient Temps and have water bowl under heat lamp to raise humidty. Does anyone think this will work or have any other suggestions on what's the best way to attack this. Thanks

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

A Hydrofarm is going to give you the same chances of failure and end result as a lamp dimmer will. Both will fail wide open. You need to look at the thread on here about how to set up a 20g tank. Its helpful for newer people. There is nothing wrong with dimmers and stuff. The issue is you are starting with such a small enclosure that it is going to be hard to get any kind of temperature gradient to start with not to mention if you have a failure of any type, it will be magnified by the small space.

If you haven't gotten both snakes yet, my advice is only get 1 and use the whole tank for him. You are putting the cart in front of the horse by getting the snakes first without having proper setups and you are just asking for trouble. I never order a snake until I have the caging set up.

And for a UTH, you definitely need a t-stat. A CHE, you can get away with a dimmer but ideally, you want a good t-stat first and foremost. I personally use Herpstats.

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There is no snakes that are going in it right now...I currently have 3 bps in an open sided rack. I should probably just butera the bullet and order a couple t8s set up. I like the rack but my house in the winter is a constant 65 degrees and I have a hell of a time keeping air Temps up (blankets/foamboard) I just don't like the look of it. Kinda looks tacky to me. I just had the tank here so I was trying to make use of it. Maybe I'll go with the t8s for the ball pythons and put one of my corn snakes in the glass tank.

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Originally Posted by Elkhntr98

There is no snakes that are going in it right now...I currently have 3 bps in an open sided rack. I should probably just butera the bullet and order a couple t8s set up. I like the rack but my house in the winter is a constant 65 degrees and I have a hell of a time keeping air Temps up (blankets/foamboard) I just don't like the look of it. Kinda looks tacky to me. I just had the tank here so I was trying to make use of it. Maybe I'll go with the t8s for the ball pythons and put one of my corn snakes in the glass tank.

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You can also order 1 T8 or 1 T10 (there on sale also $199 and the littlebit of hight helps with cleaning and viewing along with the snakes climbing) and buy the divider for $20 and have a snake in each side.... They will also do LED lights for $40. They inset a strip all the way across.
For the $50 more the T10 all day :gj:
The T8 is 12" exterior hight, 10" interior with a 8" glass door and the T10 is 15" outside, 13"'interior And about 11" doors.

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Originally Posted by Mr Sully

You can also order 1 T8 or 1 T10 (there on sale also $199 and the littlebit of hight helps with cleaning and viewing along with the snakes climbing) and buy the divider for $20 and have a snake in each side.... They will also do LED lights for $40. They inset a strip all the way across.
For the $50 more the T10 all day :gj:
The T8 is 12" exterior hight, 10" interior with a 8" glass door and the T10 is 15" outside, 13"'interior And about 11" doors.

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What age (or size) BP can you do that with before having them each in their own cage?

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Originally Posted by Bassball Fever

What age (or size) BP can you do that with before having them each in their own cage?

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What age can you do what with? Im talking about buying the AP T8 or T10 with the Divider so each snake has their own side. They are 4'L x 2' deep x 15" H and then you can use the Divider or not if you only have 1 snake.
http://www.apcages.com/home/

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Originally Posted by Elkhntr98

There is no snakes that are going in it right now...I currently have 3 bps in an open sided rack. I should probably just butera the bullet and order a couple t8s set up. I like the rack but my house in the winter is a constant 65 degrees and I have a hell of a time keeping air Temps up (blankets/foamboard) I just don't like the look of it. Kinda looks tacky to me. I just had the tank here so I was trying to make use of it. Maybe I'll go with the t8s for the ball pythons and put one of my corn snakes in the glass tank.

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I just ordered 2 T8s with sliding glass doors, locks, flexwatt, lighting and shelf. I'll be using them for Dottie and Rango until Rango outgrows it. If your house gets that cold in the winter, I would go for a RHP instead of belly heat. You can order RHPs from Pro Products and have them drop shipped to AP and they will install them for you so its all clean and nice. I keep my house around 77F in the winter and I got an oil filled radiator heater for the snake room so it stays around 80F so a RHP doesn't work well for me as I cant keep a 90 hot spot and still keep a 78-80 cool side. Flexwatt works better in my setup.

Honestly the trouble it will take to bubblegum a glass tank to hold the proper heat, gradient and humidity, you would be better off just ordering a T8. For 2 loaded ones it ran me $640 after all was said and done. I also got 3 loaded T10s as well which I think those set me back around $1200. The real kicker is going to be for my T25s. Those are going to run about $775 loaded each :( But anyways, I would just do the T8s. A lot of people use those even for boas and they work and they are quick ship items and fairly cheap yet really nice.

Oh and don't get me wrong, you can make tanks work. I have Rango and Luna in 40 gallon breeders right now and I can keep 80% humidity in it for Rango. Its nothing awesome looking but it does work. But that's why I ordered the 2 T8s this month and will order another T8 next month for Luna and then all the snakes will be in AP cages. Then I'll need to get one more for the BCC when I get her and then upgrade a couple cages here and there lol.

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Originally Posted by Mr Sully

What age can you do what with? Im talking about buying the AP T8 or T10 with the Divider so each snake has their own side. They are 4'L x 2' deep x 15" H and then you can use the Divider or not if you only have 1 snake.
http://www.apcages.com/home/

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I'm sorry, I wasn't clear. If you had the divider in and had 2 BPs, one on each side, how long can you do that for? In essence, you would have 2 cages that were 2' long.

For a BP thats all you need.. I myself use 4' for each because I enjoy watching them climb and stretch out ect... Some people act like a Shoe Box is good enough but in 29 years all my snakes have enjoyed a full 4' as long as they have good hides and fake branches & vines to climb on. For young BP's though that T10/T8 enclosure divided would be good for a couple years as there young anyway.