Hi guys, I have some concerns.

I know I haven't been on here much or anything but I'm rather worried about my boy. So my two year old pumpkin champagne hasn't been eating recently like since late November. I've been checking and double checking his husbandry every day, humidity is kept between 50-60% except during his shed which it was kept to 65%, cool side of tank is a constant 82-84 where he spends most of his time, warm side is 88-90. He's been wandering like crazy during night time hours which in my case since I actually am nocturnal is roughly 8-10 am. He'll come out a couple more times during the evening between 6-8pn. I've been checking to see if I hear any popping or wheezing nothing there, I've reduced handling him to see if he was just getting stressed out from that but that doesn't seem to be the case either. Before he stopped eating he weighed in at 1196 grams and currently he's at 1104. I took him to my preferred vet because it's been a couple months just to be sure everything is okay. Had a culture done, came back blank so had to get it done again. When I brought him in the second time they gave him an appetite stimulant (I don't think I ever want to do that again because I feel like all it did was serve to stress him out), tried to feed him just last Monday, two days after the stimulant and he still completely ignored the rat. I feed frozen thaw, warm it up to about 90 degrees using a hair dryer, he's taken food like this reliably since I got him and nothing has changed in his environment, hides are nice and snug and before he went off feed he was a super aggressive eater too, like rat was in there maybe 10 seconds before he was coiling it. Viscious little guy tore the leg off the rat once with his strikes. Now I'm a little concerned because the vet is suggesting force feeding to stimulate his appetite but I'm really not too keen on the idea of force feeding him since he's still looking pretty plump and I know he's been good on drinking water. I see him take a good drink every day right after I change his water. She also suggested getting a uvb light for him and get rid of his under tank heating which I have regulated by a rheostat. Suggestions?

Edit: I should note that I just recieved a call saying that his culture came back good tonight too. I'm wondering if maybe I should have a CBC test done. Also thinking I may buy him a live pinky rat to coax him into a little snack.
Below is a pic I just took of him tonight.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...m%2Fiz9a12.jpg

I think he is simply in "breeding" mode...both my males (voracious feeders normally) are refusing food right now.

One is used for breeding, the other is not. The one that is not breeding isn't even in the same room then the females and he is STILL refusing food. And he is "cruising" every night.

I think your boy is looking for some ladies !!!

I can't believe the vet put him through all that stress . Ok, you did cultures just to be safe, but an "appetite stimulate" ? And worse yet, force feeding ? Is your vet knowledgeable about snakes, in particular Ball Pythons ? They often go off feed, esp. males during breeding season.

You can kill your snake doing force feeding. That is the utmost of stress, and completely un-warranted !! That is last ditch effort when a snake is facing certain death from starvation and you have nothing to loose.

Your boy looks nice and healthy, the husbandry seems spot on, and you did all you could.

Just offer once every 2 weeks and unless he is taking a dramatic turn for the worse or loosing a LOT of weight, just let him be.

You sound like a wonderful and dedicated owner, wish everyone cared so much. But try not to worry so much. I bet your boy is just "in the mood" ;)

Honestly, it sounds like just a winter fast that some ball pythons do, and I wouldn't even worry about it for another second. He especially did not lose significant weight. He looks huge and healthy from the pic.

And I would NOT go back to that vet LOL. She clearly doesn't have a clue! Force feeding is reserved for hatchlings who are near death and haven't eaten a meal yet. Like stated, it's super stressful and 100% unnecessary for any healthy snake.

I would stop using the "stimulants" or anything else to aid his appetite- he's an adult and isn't having an issue, no worries!

My vet is rather knowledgable with snakes, fixed him up right as rain when he got an RI when he first came to me back on my bday almost 2 years ago. Shipping incident, no one's fault really, I cant blame the breeder at all was 85 where she was and my area got a freak temp drop to like 50 degrees and raining so stress and cold temps got him sick. I dont understand why she wants to force feed, my guess is to try to trigger a feeding response since I'm worried. My question is, when is it too much weight to lose? And when about do you think the boys will not be wanting some snoot snoot? Also should i stick with my current heat or get him a uvb?? Also, thanks for getting back to me so quickly.

As for his cruising. Is there anything I can do to keep him from getting sores on the tip of his nose. He rubs so much at the top of the tank that it's in the same spot. I use a teeny little dab of neosporin without painkillers to just keep any bacteria from getting it infected but I'd like to keep it from happening. I check the screen regularly and there's no loose pieces of metal so I know its just from him rubbing at the top. Any way I can keep him from getting the sore?

The fact that you got him so healthy and well fed speaks for itself. Seems to me you should change nothing, since he is thriving and looks great.
The winter fast is just one of those things. Some do it, some don't . Some years they keep eating, then they won't.

If everything else checks out, I wouldn't worry to much.

To much weight loss would be more then 10-15%. Or when he just starts looking "off". Breathing loudly, mucous, etc. But you already checked all that out.

Did your vet check for internal parasites ? I would have done that, rather then forcing some appetite stimulant on him. I doubt that he has internal issues, though, since you feed frozen thawed. Is there the possibility of cross contamination from other snakes ?? Again, I doubt that is the issue, but that is one of those things you check for when everything seems fine yet they loose a lot of weight.

I know you trust this vet, and its great they helped you. But there are a LOT of different snakes, they probably can't know every detail about every snake. BP's often go off feed. And force feeding is terribly stressful.

Take a deep breath, relax, and offer food every 2 weeks. ;)

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Originally Posted by SekiMoshu

As for his cruising. Is there anything I can do to keep him from getting sores on the tip of his nose. He rubs so much at the top of the tank that it's in the same spot. I use a teeny little dab of neosporin without painkillers to just keep any bacteria from getting it infected but I'd like to keep it from happening. I check the screen regularly and there's no loose pieces of metal so I know its just from him rubbing at the top. Any way I can keep him from getting the sore?

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Is it a screen top ??

If so, is there anyway you could line the bottom with something "smooth" in some way ?

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Originally Posted by SekiMoshu

My vet is rather knowledgable with snakes, fixed him up right as rain when he got an RI when he first came to me back on my bday almost 2 years ago. Shipping incident, no one's fault really, I cant blame the breeder at all was 85 where she was and my area got a freak temp drop to like 50 degrees and raining so stress and cold temps got him sick. I dont understand why she wants to force feed, my guess is to try to trigger a feeding response since I'm worried. My question is, when is it too much weight to lose? And when about do you think the boys will not be wanting some snoot snoot? Also should i stick with my current heat or get him a uvb?? Also, thanks for getting back to me so quickly.

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Force feeding doesn't trigger a feeding response, even just the opposite. It's basically forcing food down their throat just to keep them alive in times when the situation is really that extreme... Maybe she means assist feeding? Even then, it's not necessary for 99.9% of adult ball pythons! They'll get over it and start eating again.

Last year, my albino male went off feed from about November~February? Something like that. I offered every 2~3 weeks, and one day he just started eating again.

I'd stick with your current heat. I wouldn't worry about it at all! Like Zina said, vets might know about RI, but it's normal that she doesn't know every behavioral detail of every species. If your temps and husbandry is correct and they go off-feed for a few months as an adult with no ill symptoms, it's nothing to worry about.

If you have a screen top and he is rubbing on it you could do this (idea out of the blue, so not perfect..lol)

Find some of those "wipe-able" table cloth fabric. Where the printed side is that smooth, plasticky stuff.

Then cut a piece the same size as the inside of the screen top. Put your table cloth against the inside of the screen top (plasticky side towards the inside of the cage) and then STITCH it together with yarn !! The needle should go right through the fabric and also through the screen top, without damaging the screen.

Make sure you make SMALL stitches on the inside and larger one on the screen top. You don't want large stitches on the inside, just in case one might get loose and the BP would try to get into the loop.

Its kind of hard to explain and I made a quick drawing. Granted, its late, I'm no artist and its just a idea that popped into my head. So not sure it makes sense to you, LOL. I'm not that great at explaining.
English is my second language and when I get tired it "goes away"..

Well, here goes:

http://photos.imageevent.com/morgens...1155222_n3.jpg

You can leave some round holes in the fabric where he can't reach to rub, for air flow ;)

I wouldn't see any cross contamination with any other snakes, he's the only snake in my home. I did rescue a bearded dragon a month before he stopped eating but she was seen by the vet and checked out for all parasites, no respiratory infections. And I followed quarantine process. She was the last one taken care of during the day, last one touched and I'd had a change of clothes and shower before I came into contact with my boy or the three leopard geckos I've got. Gecks are doing great, bearded dragon had some runny stool for quite a while which was why I was thinking she had parasites of some sort but she's doing great now, stool is nice and firm. Poor little dear was stunted when I got her, she grew over a foot in a month. I did notice that the rats I'd been getting from my previous source which was a local store were starting to look really gross, covered in urine and tails stained with feces so I changed who I got from, ordered a batch of rats from rodent pro but my boy had stopped eating before I bought those so he's passed on every one from there so far. ::shrug:: I was beginning to worry maybe because the rats were starting to look dirty that maybe that had gotten him sick. And he hasn't had a poo since December because he hasn't eaten any. So is there another way to check for parasites? And is it possible he could have gotten something from the bearded dragon coming into the home? I'm not sure about lizard to snake cross contamination chances even when super careful.

That is a good idea! Maybe I can use some cheese cloth instead, it's a little more breathable of a fabric and soft so that should keep him from rubbing against the metal and easy enough to remove if need be too.

I wouldn't use cheese cloth. The kind I have, actually IS kind of rough when stretched out. And it can stretch in funny ways and then tangle and twist into rope. Plus it will hold the water and humidity and get soggy.

You want something slick and hard and smooth. Its not so much about softness, rather then it being "slick". Like plexi glass, glass or something. Anything with texture, he can get nose rubs on. Even regular fabric. If you slide your fingers across fabric quick, you create heat from friction.

Best would be something smooth/hard. And small stitches, so he can't rub on them, either...and make sure there is no sharp "edge" he can get to, just fold the edge over and sew along the folded edge..

About cross contamination, hm, "if" you haven't washed your hands thoroughly in between, it may just be possible. Especially if something like giardia or coccidia was present. The vet normally needs a fresh fecal to check, but if no fecal is available, they sometimes carefully swab inside the vent. That is something you would have to ask your vet, if they could check for internal parasites.
That would make more sense then force feeding or forcing appetite stimulants !! But most likely its just a winter fast !!

Make sure to always wash hands between handling anyone in the house or even touching anything in anyone's tanks. And that makes sense about the cheesecloth, I'll see what I can find as far as one of those tablecloths goes. :) Thanks so much for all your input. I feel a lot better. I highly doubt it's parasites, I feel like he'd have lost a lot more in the time he hasn't eaten if that were the case.

First of all, I really REALLY do not think your boy has any of these problems !!!

But here is a good link that explains parasites in reptiles. I did treat a snake once for giardia, but it was a long time ago and that snake was a rescue and very skinny. Giardia and Coccidia are caused by protozoans. (Protozoal diseases) They also often cause diarrhea and/or vomiting in other animals.

Again, I don't think your snake has that. He looks quite healthy.

But that is still valuable information in this link, so I will post it ;) But please do not worry so much..

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/exotic...es-of-reptiles

As for "breathable". Just leave a few "holes" in the plastic fabric. In areas he cannot reach to rub on. If you have a light dome, you can also cut out a circle for that, unless that is where he rubs..

They really do not need a whole lot of air flow, unless you keep the enclosure very humid. As a matter of fact, it should help you keep some of the humidity from escaping ;) If you worry about it, just lift it a couple times the day...

And good luck with everything, your boy sure is one handsome snake !! Post more pictures when you get a chance :)

He's completely fine, just horny or being a butt. They do that. You might want to try just leaving the f/t rat overnight. My male won't strike this time of year but he'll still eat if I just leave it

I've tried leaving it overnight and he just uses it as a pillow, he's struck once or twice in the time he hasn't eaten but I do know if he misses a couple of times in his strikes he throws a tantrum and won't eat that week. He's a bit of a diva like that. I'll definitely post more pics of him later.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SekiMoshu

As for his cruising. Is there anything I can do to keep him from getting sores on the tip of his nose. He rubs so much at the top of the tank that it's in the same spot. I use a teeny little dab of neosporin without painkillers to just keep any bacteria from getting it infected but I'd like to keep it from happening. I check the screen regularly and there's no loose pieces of metal so I know its just from him rubbing at the top. Any way I can keep him from getting the sore?

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I had a peice of Duraplex (plexiglass) cut at lowes. The screen on one of my quarantine enclosures is 11x47 (inside diameter) and i drilled 6 holes in the plexiglass & used tiny zip ties to attach it. Make sure zip ties are small enough to go threw the screen.

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Originally Posted by Mr Sully

I had a peice of Duraplex (plexiglass) cut at lowes. The screen on one of my quarantine enclosures is 11x47 (inside diameter) and i drilled 6 holes in the plexiglass & used tiny zip ties to attach it. Make sure zip ties are small enough to go threw the screen.

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And that is a much better solution ;)

Looks like a trip to Home Depot/Lowes is in order. I always have a hay day in there.

I love Home Depot, too !! My favorite :)

Then comes Lowes, then Tractor Supply.

LOL.

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Originally Posted by zina10

I love Home Depot, too !! My favorite :)

Then comes Lowes, then Tractor Supply.

LOL.

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Love Tractor Supply:gj:

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Originally Posted by SekiMoshu

Looks like a trip to Home Depot/Lowes is in order. I always have a hay day in there.

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Drill easy... Dont apply any pressure just let the bit work or the Plexy can crack... If it does no biggy as long as its small.. Dont get the cheap cheap Plexy, get the Duraplex. Its flexible and wont snap to peices. :gj:

Sounds like a "winter fast." Many males of breeding age tend to go through this. I wouldn't worry.

I have a clown that just came out of a 7 month fast.


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Originally Posted by IsmQui718

Sounds like a "winter fast." Many males of breeding age tend to go through this. I wouldn't worry.

I have a clown that just came out of a 7 month fast.


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Wow 7 months... Do you know about how many Grams he lost? Did he still drink? Did he pass Urates or anytning else during that time & did you have to soak him for hydration?

7 months isn't unheard of. He didn't lost much weight at all (about 100 grams down from 2000 grams). No additional special care was needed (soaking, etc). If the water is there, they'll drink when they need too.

I do not soak my ball pythons unless there is a piece of a stick shed (common in New York, with the dry air and excess indoor heating).


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Thats for sure neighbor. Im itching like crazy here in NY with Forced air heating hahahahahaha.
Ive never in 29 years had a snake go off feed longer than a month but of course hear about it all the time especially when people breed. That weight loss your talking about isnt even enough to notice. Thats cool.

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Originally Posted by IsmQui718

7 months isn't unheard of. He didn't lost much weight at all (about 100 grams down from 2000 grams). No additional special care was needed (soaking, etc). If the water is there, they'll drink when they need too.

I do not soak my ball pythons unless there is a piece of a stick shed (common in New York, with the dry air and excess indoor heating).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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7 months isn't unheard of. He didn't lose much weight at all (about 100 grams down from 2000 grams). No additional special care was needed (soaking, etc). If the water is there, they'll drink when they need too.

I do not soak my ball pythons unless there is a piece of a stuck shed (common in New York, with the dry air and excess indoor heating).

Sorry. Didn't realize my iPhone's auto correct was being incorrect.


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Do you have a temp gun to directly double check temps in your cage? If temps are dropped in your house they may have in the cage, a rheostat doesn't give quite the control over temps as a thermostat. Is the only heating from the uth? Has anything changed around the house-new animals, more traffic? Pic of the setup?

Yes, I have a temp gun, I double check his temps with it every day to twice a day, nothing has changed in his enclosure, no higher traffic. The only new animal in the house is the bearded dragon a month before he stopped eating but he ate like clockwork even with all the hubbub of a new tank coming into the house. He's in the living room of our apartment but it's just the three of us and we're all quiet, introverted adults, no kids. He normally likes to poke his head out of his hide to watch the telly with us when it's on. He's never been bothered by us before in the almost two years I've had him. I made sure he's always had a lot of cover plants in his tank so that he feels closed in and secure and it's been that same setup for over a year now. Even when I put him in his new bigger tank cause he was outgrowing the old one, still ate that same week, he loved the new bigger hides i got him when he was having a hard time fitting in his old ones. I've been lucky, he's always been super adaptable to subtle changes. But gods forbid I put his branch on the wrong side of the tank, I did that once and he didn't eat for two weeks until I moved it back. Haven't made that mistake again. He has uth and an over tank ceramic heat emitter just to be sure his ambient stays nice and toasty through the winter months (Ambient air hasn't dropped below 80). Here in Washington it got SUPER cold this year and has been pouring rain and snow.

Also update, I was speaking with my vet on the phone today, she was wanting to do xrays and cbc. I told her I'd like to hold off for maybe a month or so and see if it is a winter fast since he's only lost about 90 grams over the 3 month period and I haven't heard any wheezing or popping or anything and that I wasn't keen on the idea of force or assist feeding. I mean, I have two small parrots too (They're in a different room) and I know how dangerous it can be with an animal so small to have xrays done. Had to have xrays done on the cockatiel once because he had pneumonia, was the only way to catch it and the previous vet from Alaska warned of the dangers with an animal so small and that it was a last resort check.