Very skinny ball python

I just received a ball python that is extremely skinny I've had him for 2 days so I haven't tried to feed him yet but his spine sticks up to a point his belly is sunk in almost the full length of his body and I can see the outline of his ribs and the listed weight on the add shows he was at 100g now hes at 54g.
I put him into a 12qt tub its 89f on the warm side and 80f on cool side humidity is at 95% (I have a fairly large water bowl in there) hes on aspen bedding with a small hide
My question is whats the best way to go about trying to save this guy
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Offering him the appropriate sized prey every 5 days is going to be your best bet.

I would also make sure he has a hide on both sides right now. Watch your humidity on the aspen - that bedding likes to suck the air dry pretty quickly.

Are you new to snake keeping? What is your heat source, and what are you measuring temps and humidity with?

He doesn't look emaciated, he's just not a thick hatchling. He's also balled up, which making it hard to get a good idea of his girth when he's relaxed.

Melcvt00 gave you some good info and asked some good questions. Feed appropriately sized prey items, about the girth of the snake or slightly larger, every 5 to 7 days. He'll fill out for you in not time and grow like a little weed. His condition isn't critical by any means.

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http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...-hatchling-101

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Originally Posted by melcvt00

Offering him the appropriate sized prey every 5 days is going to be your best bet.

I would also make sure he has a hide on both sides right now. Watch your humidity on the aspen - that bedding likes to suck the air dry pretty quickly.

Are you new to snake keeping? What is your heat source, and what are you measuring temps and humidity with?

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To answer your questions yes I'm new to snake keeping my heat consists of heat tape under one end and a 75w ceramic heat bulb about 12"-14" above to help ambient temperature. to measure temps I have digital Thermometers with probes attached inside tub on top of the heat tape and a th-100 tracking temp/humidity on the side of the far end then I spot check with a temp gun

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Originally Posted by Sargentnoid

To answer your questions yes I'm new to snake keeping my heat consists of heat tape under one end and a 75w ceramic heat bulb about 12"-14" above to help ambient temperature. to measure temps I have digital Thermometers with probes attached inside tub on top of the heat tape and a th-100 tracking temp/humidity on the side of the far end then I spot check with a temp gun

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After looking at the pictures carefully, he DOES look skinny. That belly is very sunken in. I'm not sure if that hatchling ever ate ?? It shouldn't have been sold like that, that's for sure, but what's done is done.

It is a good thing you are keeping it in a tub. You can get a smaller waterbowl and make room for 2 hides. One at each end, cool and warm end. Far more important then a huge water bowl. Hides should be dark and not to big.

Her is the big and most important question of them all. Do you have a thermostat on the heat tape ? If not, that is one thing that is absolutely critical. You need to control the heat output. Ditch the heat bulb. It just dries out the enclosure and it may just make it to hot. Your top should be solid to make the hatchling feel more secure. If you have the hide over the warm end, it will be cozy in there. you can wrap a towel around the tub to make it feel more secure and not to let cold in or heat out. Just leave one side open and a bit of the lid, so you can do a quick visual check.

Right now you have to have your husbandry 100% spot on. That includes heat, humidity 2 hides and privacy. You don't have much time to get everything right, that hatchling needs to eat before to long.

But your best bet to get it to eat is to have everything just right, and then leave it be for at least 5 days. No handling, no messing about other then quick visual checks and perhaps a light misting to keep the humidity going.

After the 5 or so days, offer a live mouse hopper or a rat fuzzy. Close the tub and watch from some distance, you want the hatchling to feel safe. They will not eat if they don't feel safe.

Hopefully that will work.

However, there is a chance it just won't eat. I doubt it ate for the breeder. Btw. What does the breeder say ??? About the weight discrepancy ? Whether it ate and how much ??

If NOTHING works, is there someone knowledgeable near you that could teach you how to assist feed ? This one might just need a jump start. But do not attempt to do this on your own, you have to try everything else first. Because the stress of that can make things a lot worse.

Good luck, that sure is a little BEAUTY !!!

I put a second hide in there last night the large water bowl was because when he came in his scales felt dry/rough and it has helped he now is smooth/silky feeling and weighs 3g more than when he arrived i do have a thermostat on the heat tape so as not to cook the little guy
Im having trouble finding fuzzy/hopper rats and mice the person i bought him from said he was eating live rat hoppers but he had taken f/t so I didnt figure he would be difficult to get on f/t and live adult mice are easy to find and (he should be able to eat them hes 18"-20" long) but hes so thin I dont know if he will the seller says they will get it taken care of but we will see
I think there is a couple people I can see if I can get help from if it comes to that
Here is some more pics I took when I added the second hide and changed his water the last is a bit fuzzy but it shows his setup

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That is great about the thermostat! Sounds like your husbandry is great. Should you get trouble with humidity you can change to a substrate that holds it better, like Repti Chip or something. Until then, mist as needed.

However, now it is really important that the little guy gets his "down" time. That means NO more handling and as little disruption as possible.
With the tub not being in a rack, I would wrap a towel around 3 sides. You want only one side open for viewing, the rest (top, bottom, sides) should be solid. Will make him feel more enclosed and secure.

Then wait a couple of days. If he cruises at night, he might be looking for food. Ideally one evening you should notice his little head poking out of a hide. You could then place the food in front of the hide. Hopefully he would strike, if not, leave it and leave them be. The food should still be small enough not to cause damage to the hatchling, if you give live food.

That hatchling is skinny. His backbone is quite prominent and his stomach is completely concave.

But I've seen them bounce back from this. Its good that your husbandry is already spot on, now you just need to keep the stress level down and try feeding.

Hopefully it will work.

Good luck, that sure is a pretty little thing :)

He has come out and cruised around a couple times at night and I have been trying to limit messing with him as much as possible he is now covered with a towl and the heat bulbs are off

Thanks for the help and information I really want this guy to make it

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Originally Posted by Sargentnoid

He has come out and cruised around a couple times at night and I have been trying to limit messing with him as much as possible he is now covered with a towl and the heat bulbs are off

Thanks for the help and information I really want this guy to make it

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You are well on the way for that to happen.

And if NOTHING works, then don't blame yourself. I feel that little one didn't eat in a looong time, if ever. So it might be a little problem feeder.
That can be turned around, but sometimes it takes assist feeding. But that is not something you should attempt just yet. If the little one don't eat in a few days, weigh him.

Just keep us all up to date, there are so many awesome people here on this forum, so much great help. We will help you step by step :)

So far the little guy is still alive I Had to turn the ceramic heat bulb back on as temps were dropping below 70 on the cool side but I'm keeping a eye on the humidity and its staying good
He has been coming out and roaming the tub every night so when I saw his head poking out last night I dropped a fuzzy mouse (little small but it was all I could find that wouldn't harm him) infront of him to see if he would eat he paid no attention to it except to shy away when it touched him I left it over night and it was still in there this morning.
Hes drinking though and drinking alot hes went through 2-3 times the water as the female I got at the same time.
The place that I got the fuzzys from suggested I try repti boost but im afraid that might stress him out.
I talked to the seller and they offered my money back if I'd ship the snake back or a $25 credit if I wanted to keep it I dont think the snake would survive shipping it back so i think im going to keep it and see if I can find someone locallythat can help me save him
On a lighter note when i opened his tub this morning to see if the fuzzy was gone he decided to make a break for it and try to escape and then didnt want to go back in

With him roaming that much and trying to escape, make sure that the temps aren't to hot where he is staying at. Meaning..he is low to the ground. Either right on top of, or actually "in" the substrate. Usually they push the substrate away enough to be directly on the bottom.

With the heat tape underneath and the ceramic heat on top, you might be creating VERY warm temps where his body actually is. When people measure the "ambient" they often overlook that the snake is so low to the ground, that the ambient down there is quite "higher" then higher up. Substrate also causes the heat from heat tapes to get higher. Make sure he can actually thermoregulate. Also, make sure that the ceramic isn't actually heating up the substrate on the cool side. It heats up the air/ambient, but it eventually radiates up onto the substrate and warms it up.

I'm not saying it IS to hot, just make sure he has an actual cooler side, ambient and ground.

I'm not a fan of repti boost or anything like this. Him drinking well is a good thing.

There is one more thing that will prevent a hatchling to eat, and will eventually kill it. That is internal parasites like hookworms. That is not really common, but it happens. (cross contamination, etc) A vet can check a fecal, but the problem is, with that hatchling not having eaten in a long time (if ever) there is no waste to take to the vet. I'm not sure if the vet could carefully extract anything worthwhile with a swab. But the stress of all that could very well make things worse, too. Not treating it "if" that is the problem is just as bad, though. Perhaps others can chime in ? Or you could try to track down a Vet with good knowledge of reptiles and ask their opinion on what you could do if anything in this case. Make sure that vet is actually good with reptiles and understands the dilemma of getting a fecal done on a non feeding snake.

Other then double checking temps, you could try a hopper mouse. Now if even that doesn't work and the snake is loosing even more weight, you might have to take this further. Meaning either a vet check or assist feeding.

Again, if it ends up that this hatchling doesn't make it, do not blame yourself. It should have NEVER been shipped in that condition.

I think its speaks well of you that you will not ship this snake back for a refund. I don't believe that little one would survive that additional stress.

All that said, I'm not impressed with the seller. I know its said and done, but it still rubs me the wrong way. Normally, offering a refund in return for the item (snake) is exactly what should be done and expected of both sides. But in this case I don't feel its really fair. For the very fact that this snake arrived almost half the weight then advertised. Not only that, the pictures clearly show an extremely emaciated animal. Being that its a hatchling, chances are, it never fed. Those hatchlings should never be sold or shipped. Because sometimes despite best efforts, they do not make it. And you can't expect a buyer to be experienced enough to take on such a difficult case. Unless it is with "disclosure" at a reduced (or free) price. Of course "most" people will get attached or feel bad enough for the animal to want to save it. Or at least, not send it back and knowing that this will most likely kill it. I don't think this was handled correctly or fairly, this hatchling should have stayed at the breeder until it was a established feeder and chubby, like they should be. Ok, rant over.

I have the probe for the cool end laying on the substrate and I have been using a ir thermometer to spot check as of this morning hot side probe mounted under substrate reads 91f cool side probe on top of substrate reads 81f and spot checks all read around 80f he hasnt dug down and that surprised me but i figured he would if he needed heat

Zina is spot on. On another note I would like to know what online breeder this is. I have no interest in bashing on here but i certainly would never recommend them to anyone and I'd let the story be known. This wasnt a mistake. No snake goes from 100 to 50g over night or over a coupl weeks for that matter...
healthy hatchlings are normally born around 55 to 80 grams as far as im aware "someone will correct me if im wrong" and 12"-15" in length. This poor guy you said is 20"L + and the weight of a newborn.
I have a smaller petite female 3.5 months old, she was only 57 grams when i got her, but she was born just a lil thing and has grown and eaten like clock work.. So there is a differnce in just a smaller hatchling and one that isnt eating and or unhealthy...
Its awsome your not worried about the money and you understand shipping it would most likeley be the end. People like you are people that become great caring reptile owners. Im pulling for the little guy, keep this thread updates. I subscribed :)
The link below is for Reptile Breeders/Sales ect..Review "BOI". I'd sign up as most of us are on there also and put this situation out there. As Zina said, this BP should never have been sold period.

Im not seeing the link you are talking about am I just missing it?

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Originally Posted by Sargentnoid

Im not seeing the link you are talking about am I just missing it?

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Fauna Classifieds Board of Inquiry

I would consider switching the substrate to 100% cypress mulch or at best mixing it. Consider placing it under both hides if you choose to mix it. Definitely stay on point with your temperature and humidity. Also consider a extremely tighter fitting hide like a toilet paper roll (maybe two pushed in together). Don't attempt to feed him for three consecutive days and nights. On the third night offer a small live mouse in the dark and late at night. Keep the water fresh and colored with pedialite.

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Originally Posted by Sargentnoid

Im not seeing the link you are talking about am I just missing it?

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Im sorry I rambled so much I forgot to post it hahahah. tttaylorrr posted it 2 replies below my comment.

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Originally Posted by Albert Clark

I would consider switching the substrate to 100% cypress mulch or at best mixing it. Consider placing it under both hides if you choose to mix it. Definitely stay on point with your temperature and humidity. Also consider a extremely tighter fitting hide like a toilet paper roll (maybe two pushed in together). Don't attempt to feed him for three consecutive days and nights. On the third night offer a small live mouse in the dark and late at night. Keep the water fresh and colored with pedialite.

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Make sure if you go with the toilet paper roll to stuff one end with either paper towel or toilet paper so there is only one way in and one way out! :gj:

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Originally Posted by Albert Clark

I would consider switching the substrate to 100% cypress mulch or at best mixing it. Consider placing it under both hides if you choose to mix it. Definitely stay on point with your temperature and humidity. Also consider a extremely tighter fitting hide like a toilet paper roll (maybe two pushed in together). Don't attempt to feed him for three consecutive days and nights. On the third night offer a small live mouse in the dark and late at night. Keep the water fresh and colored with pedialite.

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Ok I switched out to mostly reptibark and added 2 toilet paper rolls pushed together with paper towel in the end tomorrow ill get some pedialite didnt know about that but it makes sense
I did find a very small bowl movment in there about the size of a pencil eraser when I was emptying out the shavings

I've been trying for almost 2 weeks to get this guy to eat I've tried live and frozen thawed pinkys,fuzzys and hoppers I've kept the temp and humidity at good levels and clean fresh water with pedialite in it I haven't been able to catch up with my friend who used to breed snakes so he explaned how to assist feed and I've spent all week watching youtube videos.and finally got up the nerve to try it tonight I was very gentle and let the snake get used to me and took my time and finally got a mouse in his mouth after about 30sec (it felt like a hour) he started swallowing just as he was finishing it off I eased another fuzzy into his mouth and he ate it too I'm so happy to get some food in this guy
Still a long way to go but its progress

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That's so good to hear! I'm glad you got him to eat. Hopefully he'll start eating normally again.

That is awesome !!! Good job :)

Hopefully this will kick start the little guy and he will soon take food on his own :)

Wow you really stepped up, I think id be nervous!!! So cool this lil guy is going to have a good life now man... If I were you Id leave him for a few days as im sure that took everything he had (energy) to eat 2 of those after being so underfed. Congrats.. Im rooting for um :)

thanks for all yalls help,the feeling when he started swallowing that first mouse was great and when I was able to chain feed a second as he was swallowing I couldnt believe it .I peeked in on him a hour or so later and he was in his warm hide and this morning it looked like he kept them down I was so happy.
I did want to ask should I wait a full week before offering him another or should I do it sooner/later. I figure I'll keep his meals smaller for now but may try a hopper next time hes big enough to eat a small mouse and if he was filled out he could eat a large mouse/rat hopper.
Thanks again for all yalls help

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Originally Posted by Sargentnoid

thanks for all yalls help,the feeling when he started swallowing that first mouse was great and when I was able to chain feed a second as he was swallowing I couldnt believe it .I peeked in on him a hour or so later and he was in his warm hide and this morning it looked like he kept them down I was so happy.
I did want to ask should I wait a full week before offering him another or should I do it sooner/later. I figure I'll keep his meals smaller for now but may try a hopper next time hes big enough to eat a small mouse and if he was filled out he could eat a large mouse/rat hopper.
Thanks again for all yalls help

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I would give him a week and offer a hopper, then the small mouse a week later if all goes well. You don't want to push a ton of food on a critter that has fasted for a long time.

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Originally Posted by bcr229

I would give him a week and offer a hopper, then the small mouse a week later if all goes well. You don't want to push a ton of food on a critter that has fasted for a long time.

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^^^^^ yup... Id give his digestive track sometime..

Thats kind of what i figured just wanted to double check (somtimes the hardest thing to do is nothing)

So glad things worked out and you got some food in him. He's definitely on a much better track now :)

Ok I have tried him twice more once at 6 days (with a f/t hopper) after I assist fed him and again at 8 (live hopper) and hes still not showing any sign of interest in food how long should I wait before I assist feed him again.
And thanks again for all the help

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Originally Posted by Sargentnoid

Ok I have tried him twice more once at 6 days (with a f/t hopper) after I assist fed him and again at 8 (live hopper) and hes still not showing any sign of interest in food how long should I wait before I assist feed him again.
And thanks again for all the help

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Assist feeding is very stressful for the critter. I wouldn't do it more often than once a week.

If you can manage to chain two small feeders whose combined weight adds up to an appropriately sized meal that's often easier to get down the hatch than one larger feeder. If you have f/t feeders I would feed them wet or at least damp, as debilitated snakes are often dehydrated and it can take them a while to recover.

Also triple-check your temperatures to ensure the temperature is correct on both the warm and cool sides.

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Originally Posted by bcr229

Assist feeding is very stressful for the critter. I wouldn't do it more often than once a week.

If you can manage to chain two small feeders whose combined weight adds up to an appropriately sized meal that's often easier to get down the hatch than one larger feeder. If you have f/t feeders I would feed them wet or at least damp, as debilitated snakes are often dehydrated and it can take them a while to recover.

Also triple-check your temperatures to ensure the temperature is correct on both the warm and cool sides.

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Ya what I didnt want to do was stress him out more than necessary but also dont want to go to long and I did chain 2 fuzzys when I fed him last insted of a small mouse and he has been drinking but I will try dampening the mice to get more in him

If this goes on for a bit id feed EOW (chain 2). That way your not stressing so often..did you get any uraits or poo from him/her yet?

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Originally Posted by Mr Sully

If this goes on for a bit id feed EOW (chain 2). That way your not stressing so often..did you get any uraits or poo from him/her yet?

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So far I've seen uraits 2 times and poo 2 times but the poo was small about the size of a rat pellet I assist fed him again last night and chain fed 2 fuzzys he was much stronger and and fought me much more than the first time but after several attempts he took it and he takes the second one easily
Also what is EOW thats a term I havent run into yet

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Originally Posted by Sargentnoid

I assist fed him again last night and chain fed 2 fuzzys he was much stronger and and fought me much more than the first time

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This is good, it means he's converting his food into growth and energy.

Also I'll give you fair warning, at some point while you're assist feeding that food response may kick in and he'll grab one of your fingers. I had a BRB baby do that. Fortunately they have small teeth when they're babies.

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Originally Posted by bcr229

This is good, it means he's converting his food into growth and energy.

Also I'll give you fair warning, at some point while you're assist feeding that food response may kick in and he'll grab one of your fingers. I had a BRB baby do that. Fortunately they have small teeth when they're babies.

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Right now I would love that this little guy has had me so worried I would gladly take getting bit if it ment he was trying to feed

I'm glad that he is improving. It's lucky that he was purchased by someone who is so kind and determined. Keep up the good work!

Hydration can be huge. I can't remember....how is your humidity, and have you done any warm water soaks yet? Absorbing through his skin can help tremendously.

How the little guy doing?

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Originally Posted by rdoyle

How the little guy doing?

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Hes still hanging in there he still shows no intrest in food so I've had to assist feed him twice (2 fuzzys each time) he drinks well and his scales are silky smooth unlike when he came in and felt like sand paper I've found uraits a few times and found poo twice though it was about the size and shape of a rat pellet so far I'm just trying to make shure his temp and humidity stay good and leave him alone the first time I assist fed him it was like holding a wet noodle this last time he was able to fight back and struggle more so his energy is definitely better
Thanks to all the help I've received on here I'm actually starting to believe this guy has a chance

That is great to here. I hope he gets better fast

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EOW = Every other week.
But if your having success stick to what your doing.. I would fill a small tote or a 12x18 pan with 1/2" of warm water and let him soak and drink. Mine prefer to drink the warm water when they are soaking and it will help hydrate.

Im going to clean his cage tonight so ill try giving him a soak while I do that

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Originally Posted by Sargentnoid

Im going to clean his cage tonight so ill try giving him a soak while I do that

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Keep the water shallow.. If its his first time it can make him nervous so lower him down and he will go the rest of the way into the water himself. Glad your gettinh him strong. Good Job :gj:

Gave him a soak while I was cleaning out his tub heated the water to 93f and took him out when it dropped to 85f he took it well and just cruised around the tub when I cleaned his tub I found a nice fresh poo also I weighed him while he was out and hes up to 59g then I cleaned the pewder females tub and she decided to bite me so its been a productive night

How he doing?

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Tried to get him to eat again last night (f/t) and he just ether ignores the fuzzy completely or hides his head from it even left it in over night. going to try to go get a couple live fuzzys today and try them hes just not showing any sign of wanting to feed

Don't give up, just keep up the good work!

Looks like you have a little project for the year... By this time next year you'll have a 800G buddy that will be here because of you. Keep up the good work :gj:

Small update he still hasnt eaten on his own but I did get a nice one piece shed from him today