New Ball Python Owner

So I need some advice, I'm getting my first ball python very soon and she's already a year and a half old. She's 18 inches long and decent healthy weight. My breeder had told me a 20L reptile enclosure will be fine for her until I have to upgrade to a 40 gallon. I'm wondering though if I could just get a 40 gallon enclosure and she would be fine or if I have to get a 20L? Also wondering if 40 gallon enclosures only come as breeders or if there's such a thing as a 40L or of they are the same thing.

Just need advice!

Thanks

Congratulations on your first snake.

Have you considered a PVC enclosure or are you set on an aquarium style tank?

I'm new to snakes as well and find the majority of folks with tanks, myself included, have humidity issues and have to tweek things to get it right. (ie. foil or some other method of covering the screen but not too much or the humidity will be too high, but just enough to hopefully regulate it properly)

Conversely, the owners with PVC enclosures rarely talk about humidity problems.

This just my opinion, not the rule. Good luck.

I would highly recommend a polypropylene tub for her hatchling to juvenile enclosure. They are inexpensive and easily turned into an ideal snake setup. Polypropylene is FDA approved, non-porous, and very easy to clean. Plastic also conducts heat far better than glass, thus you we have an easier time heating it and achievable what conventional wisdom would consider "ideal conditions". Walmart carries good Sterilite containers or you can look for IRIS tubs as well (Container Store almost always has these).

Once she gets larger (say 500+ g) you can move her to a more final enclosure, of which I would suggest either an animal plastics T8/T10 or a Constrictors NW PLM482314. I personally lean towards Constrictors NW as I prefer polyethylene to PVC, but that is up to you.

So I'm not exactly set on a glass enclosure presay but I want to be able to show her off in her cage and see her easily. I've heard about the humidity issues with glass enclosures but my breeder told me to just mist her and the cage twice a day and it'd be fine. I'm just not sure what's to do now if anyone has advice feel free to contact me directly with a private message.

Based on your location it gets very, very cold and dry in the winter. Consequently you will have a very difficult time with keeping the heat and humidity at appropriate levels for a ball python if you use a tank setup.

I would get a tub for now, and a PVC enclosure in the future. There are very nice ones where you can have a good view into them and you can easily maintain the proper environment for your new pet. The AP T3 is currently on sale for $175 and it would last for the life of your snake.

I'm concerned if I order an enclosure online though like a PVC one that I could have problems assembling it or it arriving damaged. Also my issue with tubs is that I wouldn't be about to see her very well or display her cage at all. And yes being in Minnesota is very cold now in the winter so that's another factor when it comes to her enclosure, especially considering she'll be in my bedroom and my bedroom is in the basement of my house it's the coldest room in the house. She's my first snake, basically my baby of sorts I want to do this right but have to upgrade will be a pain so I'm trying to learn what's good to go with and what's not.

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Originally Posted by mmager21

I'm concerned if I order an enclosure online though like a PVC one that I could have problems assembling it or it arriving damaged. Also my issue with tubs is that I wouldn't be about to see her very well or display her cage at all. And yes being in Minnesota is very cold now in the winter so that's another factor when it comes to her enclosure, especially considering she'll be in my bedroom and my bedroom is in the basement of my house it's the coldest room in the house. She's my first snake, basically my baby of sorts I want to do this right but have to upgrade will be a pain so I'm trying to learn what's good to go with and what's not.

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I've spoken to Ali at Animal Plastics several times and she is amazing. Although I haven't received the enclosure yet, from what I've seen on you tube they are as simple to assemble as a bookshelf bought at Ikea with simple tools (no power tools needed). As far as damage is concerned, someone here had a damaged piece and they overnighted the replacement.

Long story short, it's your decision as to what best suits your needs. Good luck, you'll find some great info here and "on the line" (yes I'm quoting the movie The Internship).

Kudos for you to investigate BEFORE getting your new snake.

I will say personally that I had a fantastic customer service experience with Animal Plastics. Got two T8s with locks, Pro-Heat RHP installed, LED channel cut for my own light strip, and they were an absolute breeze to assemble. Detailed instructions but no-brainer assembly. I've also heard from other folks here that they'll overnight or at least ship the same day for damaged parts.
They did take about 7 weeks instead of the 3-4 they told me but then offered $45 credit for my next order. Needless to say, that $45 is buying me a shelf in whatever size cage I order for my SD retic next. AP has my business for sure. I'm actually going to ask about a couple custom mods to the next cage if they can cut the pieces I'm thinking about.


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I will say personally that I had a fantastic customer service experience with Animal Plastics. Got two T8s with locks, Pro-Heat RHP installed, LED channel cut for my own light strip, and they were an absolute breeze to assemble. Detailed instructions but no-brainer assembly. I've also heard from other folks here that they'll overnight or at least ship the same day for damaged parts.
They did take about 7 weeks instead of the 3-4 they told me but then offered $45 credit for my next order. Needless to say, that $45 is buying me a shelf in whatever size cage I order for my SD retic next. AP has my business for sure. I'm actually going to ask about a couple custom mods to the next cage if they can cut the pieces I'm thinking about.
So yeah, setting up a tub while you wait for a PVC enclosure would probably be the most upfront initially but be the best investment in the long run. I will also say that as a long time glass enclosure and Neodesha Plastics cage user, AP or a comparable set up is far far better.

(Sorry for the double post. Tapatalk is being really crappy the last few days.)

I am new to this forum but not new to snakes(been more into RTB's then Balls). While I will echo the fact that a PVC enclosure is most likely your best bet followed by wood, glass can work. Let me state this again if you have the ability to get any of the fine PVC enclosures out(ie the money) do so. If not the general rule of thumb is as long as you give your new snake plenty of places to hide I have found it is a lot better for the snake just to grow up in its permanent home then have enclosures grow with it.

Okay I'm definitely considering a PVC enclosure but how easy are they to clean fully and get substrate out of? Also I want to be able to have a permanent lock on the enclosure when I'm not home or what have you, can I do this with a PVC enclosure? Also I wonder how easy a PVC enclosure is to heat, I plan to use a heat lamp and a UTH is that still doable with a PVC enclosure? But I'm still wondering if it would be awful to just house her in a 20L reptile enclosure I e a glass enclosure for now until she grows out of it or not. I guess my biggest question is if a glass enclosure is the worse type of cage for my BP.

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Originally Posted by mmager21

Okay I'm definitely considering a PVC enclosure but how easy are they to clean fully and get substrate out of? Also I want to be able to have a permanent lock on the enclosure when I'm not home or what have you, can I do this with a PVC enclosure? Also I wonder how easy a PVC enclosure is to heat, I plan to use a heat lamp and a UTH is that still doable with a PVC enclosure? But I'm still wondering if it would be awful to just house her in a 20L reptile enclosure I e a glass enclosure for now until she grows out of it or not. I guess my biggest question is if a glass enclosure is the worse type of cage for my BP.

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I can tell you that glass cages SUCK for snakes or any animal really that requires decent humidity and heat...its a constant battle for temps and humidity to remain constant.

PVC 100%, that or use a plastic tub for the time being, you'll thank your own sanity for it later lol.

Glass enclosure are not bad but they make it harder to keep the right temperature and humidity. Also harder to clean being fragile.

If you really wanna use a heat lamp you can get an herptek cage, but I believe they're pointless with a terrestrial snake and dry up the air. Just get a properly sized UTH with a decent thermostat.

If you're US based go for the already suggested animal plastic, they come with locks too, just look up the site. They're so much cheaper then anything I can find in europe :(

I live in northern MN and would highly recommend you go for a pvc enclosure off the bat with a radiant heat panel, wouldn't hurt to have under tank heating as well. Get a good thermostat like a herpstat, set it all up ahead of getting the snake so you can make sure temps are perfect and steady. There are a ton of options on caging, built it yourself, come prebuilt and whatever options/colors/design you are after, check reviews on the company but you shouldn't have any problem ordering, I've had stacks of 3' and 4' cages shipped in no issues. Ball pythons hang out under a hide 95% of the time so you won't see them, they aren't a display snake and in a tank you would end up covering most of the sides with paper for his security and likely insulation to attempt to keep some heat in. Many are sold with dividers too so you could use half the cage to begin with if the snake seems stressed in a larger one but I haven't had any problems putting small snakes in big cages as long as they have appropriate hides and cover.

You would need several heat lamps on a tank to keep ambient temps up, it's hard to keep lamps at a steady temp and they suck humidity horribly. You would want ceramic heat emitters not light emitters if you do go the tank way though, snakes don't like bright lights and those bulbs usually crap out really quickly anyways. Fish tanks are for fish, not for holding heat and humidity well, they are usually tall and thin vs low and wide like a ground dwelling snake would like and the air flow sucks. Tubs are nice but need a warm room since bottom heat doesn't change ambient temps. You need ambient temps to be around 80 with a hotspot of 90 and it can't be swinging or changing all over the place.

Okay so PVC enclosure with UTH and a thermometer. I'm going to get a temp gun for any other temperature related things. Also I get a discount at my work on everything Reptile right now (I work at a pet store yes I know how most herpers feel about them and I don't agree with a lot of things they do but it's a good paycheck and I like working there) that being said other then my work I'm planning to get most everything else from TCR. Any reason I shouldn't get anything from them? With a PVC enclosure a UTH is fine for heating correct?

Being from the north, I can agree to the difficulties of keeping a Ball Python in a glass tank. I had to modify the screen top and still continue to mist the tank multiple times a day. Even then though the tank was still staying primarily around 35% to 40%. Now that I have changed away from the tanks my life and my Ball Pythons lives have become much easier. Do your best to get a PVC style enclosure. Even if you have to save for it eventually it will be worth it seeing the life span of these animals.

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UTH only create a hot spot, you are going to need a radiant heat panel to keep ambient temps up because of the climate here, your basement bedroom is probably sitting below 70 and ball pythons need 80s as a low. Thermostat is what you need to control your heat source, no matter what it is, thermometers merely tell temperature. You have boaphile, monster cages and probably other options near you that make pvc setups. They are super easy to clean, very light and not breakable unlike glass tanks, locks-choose when buying them or add later.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...74bccac0a0.jpg

This is a 3' divided boaphile cage for example with a herpstat thermostat controlling the heat.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...9a67d5b7cd.jpg

Stack of 4', nice displays, you can see the snakes, see the latches, very secure-I don't add locks but it's an option.

My Experience:
I bought my baby snake from a reptile expo in Canada last March.
From day 1 I bought her a 40gal glass terrarium where she has lived happy/healthy until this day.
Although, when I first had her she wouldn't eat for almost 2 months! Most likely due to her being scared of her new home.
After she took the first time she has taken every time after that.

Answer:
I would say go for the 40gal, but give her lots of room to hide so she feels safe.

Also:
I live in a basement which are usually humid all year round in Ontario, Canada. The only time I have problems with humidity is when I buy a new substrate that doesn't hold humidity well. I find coconut fiber keeps the tank at 50% for a longggg time before needing to spray.

What should I use for now until I have the finances to afford a PVC enclosure? Some people say a 20L glass enclosure will be okay until she grows out of it. Any advice? Also I'm wondering if I need day and night light cycle. So I can see her in the cage at night without using a heat lamp unless I have too. Would something like this work?

http://t.petco.com/shop/en/petcostor...t-led-fixture#

This is my little girl if anyone is wondering btw.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0By4...w?usp=drivesdk

Still new to the site couldn't figure out how to upload the actual photo

You will spend just as much making a tank setup work as buying a proper reptile cage. If you go for a tank you need a ceramic heat emitter or possibly two, with proper domes and a rheostat/lamp dimmer to control the output somewhat. I would also want a uth on a thermostat underneath to make a nice hotspot and backup heat. No light emitting bulbs, it will only stress out the snake as they prefer to be hidden, the room light is more than enough day/light cycle for them. It's going to be under a hide 99% of the time, if you want to see it take it out. You'll likely have to insulate the sides and cover the top with something to try to keep in heat/humidity. Make sure you are still allowing some airflow and have plenty of space for the heat bulbs not to burn/melt anything around them and that your snake can't come in contact with them as they do get incredibly hot. Keep an eye on the substrate as too much heat/humidity and low ventilation easily lead to mold. Set anything up well in advance of getting your snake. Get a temp gun to accurately check all around the cage. Temps are going to change based on room temps so you need to keep a close eye.

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Originally Posted by mmager21

What should I use for now until I have the finances to afford a PVC enclosure? Some people say a 20L glass enclosure will be okay until she grows out of it. Any advice? Also I'm wondering if I need day and night light cycle. So I can see her in the cage at night without using a heat lamp unless I have too. Would something like this work?

http://t.petco.com/shop/en/petcostor...t-led-fixture#

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People have given you the best info for your new snake possible. I understand you want to display it and have a good looking set-up but if you go with the Aquarium & don't have it spot on you risk stress & health issues. To answer your question 20 years ago we kept full grown Balls in 20 Gal or 30 Gal Long tanks. So yes thats big enough.
If thats what your set on for now then cover 3 sides with Cardboard as soon as you get it for some cheap insulation. Glass looses heat as fast as you put it in. Also use a UTH and a CHE (Ceramic heat bulb) instead of light. If your dead set on a light then get the red heat bulb. Ball Pythons hate being lit up with regular White Light heat lamps.
If you don't put some of the "looks" aside for whats best for the snake then he will be stressed, may stop eating and wear down his immune system. Next thing you know you'll be on here asking what to do about a sick snake...
FYI, AP cages has the T8 on sale for $150 + 45 shipping. They hold heat and are 200 x's better for the snake and 100 x's Sweeter to look at that a Aquarium bro.
I understand if money doesnt allow right now but dont waste money on a Aquarium and all that goes with it if your considering a PVC enclosure in a bit. Instead get a $15 dollar bin/tote for a few weeks/month until you have the $195 for a bad lookin enclosure...Just my input, no disrepect to your wishes or what you choose. Congrats on the new snake :)

Thanks for all the advice guys. My biggest concern is her health and happiness. I've decided to get a PVC enclosure when she's bigger because I want her to have plenty of room to hide and move around in if she chooses. I'm set on using a UTH for heating and a RHP for ambient temperature but my question now is what to house her in until I can I e afford a PVC enclosure and when she's big enough. Because of she's going to out grow this one anyway I want something that will be a good habitat for her until that time that isn't extremely expensive. If that makes sense. I want her healthy and happy I'm just not sure what to do as far as a juvenile enclosure.

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Originally Posted by mmager21

Thanks for all the advice guys. My biggest concern is her health and happiness. I've decided to get a PVC enclosure when she's bigger because I want her to have plenty of room to hide and move around in if she chooses. I'm set on using a UTH for heating and a RHP for ambient temperature but my question now is what to house her in until I can I e afford a PVC enclosure and when she's big enough. Because of she's going to out grow this one anyway I want something that will be a good habitat for her until that time that isn't extremely expensive. If that makes sense. I want her healthy and happy I'm just not sure what to do as far as a juvenile enclosure.

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Thats what I was saying, go to Lowes/Home Depo ect.. Get a plastic Tote with locking handles over the side of lid for $10. Drill a couple holes in each side for some air circulation and any other cords you run into it... Look on Youtube, thousands of breeders use these Tote styles...

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Originally Posted by mmager21

Thanks for all the advice guys. My biggest concern is her health and happiness. I've decided to get a PVC enclosure when she's bigger because I want her to have plenty of room to hide and move around in if she chooses. I'm set on using a UTH for heating and a RHP for ambient temperature but my question now is what to house her in until I can I e afford a PVC enclosure and when she's big enough. Because of she's going to out grow this one anyway I want something that will be a good habitat for her until that time that isn't extremely expensive. If that makes sense. I want her healthy and happy I'm just not sure what to do as far as a juvenile enclosure.

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Smaller one-
https://m.lowes.com/pd/Hefty-15-Quart-Clear-Tote-with-Latching-Lid/3341158

Bigger one -
https://m.lowes.com/pd/Hefty-66-Quar...ng-Lid/3341164

Should I feed inside the cage? Or outside in a separate cage? My breeder has been feeding her inside the cage. And she's not cage aggressive. Advice?

Feed in the cage, there's no reason to move them and doing so actually increases your chance of getting bit since you are handling a snake in feed mode usually with scent of food around. Plus the stress of moving can cause some to not want to eat at all.

So I've decided to just order a PVC cage. But I still have questions.

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Originally Posted by mmager21

So I've decided to just order a PVC cage. But I still have questions.

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Good idea...

I have a question about what type of heading to use with a 20 long Zilla cage. CHE or heat lamps? (Combined with a UTH) thoughts?

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Originally Posted by mmager21

I have a question about what type of heading to use with a 20 long Zilla cage. CHE or heat lamps? (Combined with a UTH) thoughts?

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I would generally suggest a CHE as they give off heat with no light. They also typically last longer, but I have heard some bad reports about the exo terra brand CHEs.

I planned to use Zilla brand CHE. What wattage for a 20 long cage?

I can tell you a zoo med 40 or 60 watt red bulb will work just fine in a 20 long. Just make sure you use a "humid hide". But the advice your receiving is solid. If you want, you can take a look in my gallery.;)

Thanks. I was wondering if I did a heat lamp if I need a day and night one. Also her cage will be in my bedroom and I know that red lights are extremely hard to sleep with when their on at night, would I be able to use a black night blub or a blue night blub? As well as a blue day blub? I've researched and heard that they work better then red night lights and white day lights. Otherwise I was planning to use a CHE with a small led day and night lamp it doesn't give of heat just light. Thoughts?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mmager21

Thanks. I was wondering if I did a heat lamp if I need a day and night one. Also her cage will be in my bedroom and I know that red lights are extremely hard to sleep with when their on at night, would I be able to use a black night blub or a blue night blub? As well as a blue day blub? I've researched and heard that they work better then red night lights and white day lights. Otherwise I was planning to use a CHE with a small led day and night lamp it doesn't give of heat just light. Thoughts?

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Bro in post #23 I explained all about a CHE or a Heat lamp and the fact you can kill 2 birds with one stone. (Not 2 diff color bulbs and CHE last 3 times as long). Your asking the same questions over and over. People are giving you great information but you have to slow down and read it all. A 60 watt CHE is for a 10-20 gal tank.

I got the answers I needed thanks. Also I'm not a bro I'm a she. Thanks