Ball python jaw too short?

So I recieved an Albino Phantom ball python in November, last weekend I had looked under her chin and noticed that her jaw look's weird. Im New to the whole snake keeping so I researched and think that her lower jaw is deformed? Looking for advice and opinions. And can that cause her to not eat? Since I have had her she has eaten only 3 time's. 1 alone and two times I assisted her (used the mouse nose to push her mouth open and then she bit and coiled did everything on her own) if I don't assist her in that manner she refuses she only weighs 100g and was born in September 2016. I have contacted the breeder but she tries her best to ignore me or put the blame on me for her not eating. I should have noticed the jaw earlier I feel bad for not but if it is a deformed jaw then I will contact her again. Of course I will be keeping the little one but as a breeder she should have informed me.
Thanks for any help! If anyone can tell me how I uploads pics I can upload a picture of her jaw. Otherwise the jaw just looks too short and the gap between lower and upper is very spaced.
Eceukool

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...109_143609.jpg


Her jaw.

Yes, this is a deformity. A "birth defect" if you will.

And the breeder had to have known about it. I've heard that some people think its due to temperature problems during incubation, other people think its a genetic defect.

Either way, this Ball Python should have NEVER been sold that way. If anything, it should have been GIVEN away with full disclosure. I don't believe for one half of a second that the breeder did not know about it. To sell this snake, and to someone new to the hobby as well, is highly un-ethical.

Call her out on it. IF she still ignores you, I would expose her and her selling practices. There are several places that have a "Board of Inquiry" (including one on this forum) where you can review a seller and their practices, and this is certainly a case where I would do this, because this is truly un-acceptable.

Of course its not the poor snakes fault and it deserves a good life, but you don't sell one like this to an unsuspecting buyer.

About the eating..well, I have heard that some Ball Pythons with an overbite eat normal. So I'm not sure if this could be a factor. Does she ever flick her tongue ? I would double check the husbandry. Are all the temps and the humidity "spot on" ? Does the snake have enough hides and privacy ?

I'm sorry you were introduced into this hobby this way.

That is an under developed lower jaw.
If she is eating then I wouldn't worry about it other than the fact that the breeder should have made it known to you.
It will not prevent her from eating.

Thanks for the replys. I really do love her but i am also afraid of her dying. The temps and everything is correct i got into contact with Brian Barczyk about her not eating and he said i was doing everything right so far. So i am guessing it is because of her jaw. Like i said i once got into contact with breeder about her not eating, and she said she ate really well with them and tried to tell me i was doing something wrong. I just wrote her again 20 min ago and confronted her she read the message but she isnt replying. The thing is she lives 3 hours from me and i cant drive so there is no way i could drop by her house. :( im so worried about the little one. She wont eat on her own only if i assist, Which i have no problem with, if thats what i have to do to keep her going i will gladly do it, but i am worried if she will let me do it once she gets older and stronger.

Thanks for helping me out. It helps to know i have someone to call on when i have problems since my breeder wont help.

Under bites happen however this type of things if a breeder chose to sell the animal should be disclosed prior to the purchase.

Now in some cases it is severe enough to prevent the animal to eat on it's own but this is obviously not one of those cases considering it is not that severe and considering the weight of the animal that shows that the animal was eating.

So there are two issue one is the one of a breeder with poor ethics selling an animal with a birth defect the second is you having issues getting your animal to eat which is common with new owners.

Here is what you need to do to a T https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...-hatchling-101

Now when it comes to the breeder it's a whole other issue, yes it should have been disclosed but you should have inspect the animal upon reception as well and with 2 months that have gone by I am afraid that you will have very little recourse but you can always try.

You got the right attitude, she has a little problem but it sounds like nothing you cant handle thank god. Obviously i dont know why she isnt eating on her own but id make her my little buddy like you have and just help her out. Grab yourself some tongs like Brian does when he feeds some of the aggressive feeders and once a week git er dun :)
If she ate for you 3 times she is ok at this point, no sense in worrying when this is something you have to take week by week.. I hope since she already took from you your all set. You might have a week here or there she wont eat but so do most Balls..
She is lucky you got her at this point, some peeps would discard her. Best of luck and keep us all posted. Im intersted to see how things go.

Like Deborah said, since so much time passed, there is probably little recourse at this point.

However...

This is obviously not a problem caused by you, nor is it a problem that could have popped up recently. The snake was born that way. The breeder had to have known about it.

If you breed and sell Ball Pythons you can see a obvious birth defect such as this. Esp. if you handle and sex the snake.
This is highly un-ethical and while I'm glad you are keeping the little one and giving it its best shot, it doesn't change the fact that the breeder did you wrong.

They should refund your money. That is in my humble opinion. IF I had a hatchling such as this I would consider myself lucky just to find someone willing to take it for free and give it a chance.
I could never sell it, esp. hiding the fact that it has a birth defect.

Since the breeder is ignoring you at this point just shows she knows she did wrong, and has no intention to do right.

What I would do is keep the snake, continue to do my best to see it thrive. I probably would expose the seller, though. Not because I like to stir up drama, but simply to warn others.

But this is just in my humble opinion ;)

Just an FYI, there are forums you can post on to let others know about unethical breeders.
I know people don't like to hear it but this animal should have been:
1 kept
2 free
3 food

It sucks but I myself would NEVER sell that animal.

she got back to me and said she didn't see that she had that defect (yeah right) i tried to have her at least give me half of my money back, but she keeps on trying to push the blame on me as to why the little one is not eating (telling me my temps must be off even though they are not, or saying that they often are stubborn and refuse foods). I will def add her to the list though that was mentioned. Feeding day is on Wednesday so hope all will go good and she takes it on her own this time. When i recieved her she weighed in at 87g on the 18 of November 2016 and the last time i weight her on the 3of January this year she weighed in at 111g I dont know if thats about average for a 4 month old. My concern is if she doesnt decide to eat on her own and she is full grown, what if i cant continue to assist feed her that way, what if she puts up of a fight. Stupid i know but fears are usually stupid and irrational :D
I guess time will tell. Corn snakes and red tail boas seem to be much more uncomplicated :D

Thank you all so much for your kindness and Answers!:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

Just an FYI, there are forums you can post on to let others know about unethical breeders.
I know people don't like to hear it but this animal should have been:
1 kept
2 free
3 food

It sucks but I myself would NEVER sell that animal.

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Exactly this, and for #2 I would have the new owner sign a first right-of-refusal contract where if the new owner needs to rehome it then I'm first in line to get it back at no charge. There would be a rather steep fee for violating it too. Otherwise you know there are people out there who would take that free snake and flip it within a few days, with no disclosure of the deformity.

OP: I would put feedback threads up here and on the FaunaClassifieds.com Board of Inquiry on the seller. Whether or not the critter is eating, an underbite is a defect that should be disclosed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eceukool

My concern is if she doesnt decide to eat on her own and she is full grown, what if i cant continue to assist feed her that way, what if she puts up of a fight. Stupid i know but fears are usually stupid and irrational :D

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It's not stupid or irrational to worry about quality of life and potential problems when keeping an animal with a defect. Anyone who breeds has to consider them before they start throwing males in with females.

I would just monitor her weight and growth, and when she gets up to adult size if she does stop eating just weigh her every few weeks to make sure she's not dropping faster than most other BP's, as it's not unusual for them to go on months long fasts.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

That is an under developed lower jaw.
If she is eating then I wouldn't worry about it other than the fact that the breeder should have made it known to you.
It will not prevent her from eating.

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True enough !

I saw one one similar to the description on sale in the uk , it was either very cheap or free , just can't recall .

I'm guessing that it shouldn't be be bred from but I'm not 100% certain on that point .

The one I saw looked a little like a baby shark from side , it was hellishly cute looking .

First of all, that little snake is lucky to have landed with you, particularly coming from a breeder who was either blind and clueless or unscrupulous.

But what recourse you have with regard to the breeder is neither here nor there when it comes to getting the snake to eat for you and taking the best possible care of it. There are lots of resources here for getting youngsters to eat. But what a lot of it comes down to is that they are most vulnerable while they're eating, so they don't want to be watched, they don't want to feel exposed, they want an escape route (like being able to drag the prey into a hide and finish it out of sight) and they don't want to do it in bright light. If swallowing is just a little more difficult than normal, that probably contributes to the insecurity.
So scent the room, but keep commotion to a minimum, feed at night, keep the lights turned low, and if possible, use a cardboard shield or something so the snake can't see you watching. Also make sure the prey is heated up to body temperature (100 degrees give or take) and wiggle it a little.

I don't have personal experience with this, but you might seek out other keepers who have cared for snakes with this deformity over the long term. Since its mouth can't really close completely normally, I could imagine the snake being potentially more prone to issues or irritation from some kinds of substrate, low humidity, etc. Can snakes get dry mouth, if the skin on the inside of their mouth that would normally be moist from saliva basically at all times gets dry from being exposed? Could it be more prone to mouth rot, fungus, abrasions, bits of substrate getting stuck where it can't get rid of them? I have no idea, but I'm sure there's someone out there who could either tell you what small tweaks to its care might help accommodate its issue, or even just assure you that it doesn't need anything any different from a normal ball python.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Coluber42

First of all, that little snake is lucky to have landed with you, particularly coming from a breeder who was either blind and clueless or unscrupulous.

But what recourse you have with regard to the breeder is neither here nor there when it comes to getting the snake to eat for you and taking the best possible care of it. There are lots of resources here for getting youngsters to eat. But what a lot of it comes down to is that they are most vulnerable while they're eating, so they don't want to be watched, they don't want to feel exposed, they want an escape route (like being able to drag the prey into a hide and finish it out of sight) and they don't want to do it in bright light. If swallowing is just a little more difficult than normal, that probably contributes to the insecurity.
So scent the room, but keep commotion to a minimum, feed at night, keep the lights turned low, and if possible, use a cardboard shield or something so the snake can't see you watching. Also make sure the prey is heated up to body temperature (100 degrees give or take) and wiggle it a little.

I don't have personal experience with this, but you might seek out other keepers who have cared for snakes with this deformity over the long term. Since its mouth can't really close completely normally, I could imagine the snake being potentially more prone to issues or irritation from some kinds of substrate, low humidity, etc. Can snakes get dry mouth, if the skin on the inside of their mouth that would normally be moist from saliva basically at all times gets dry from being exposed? Could it be more prone to mouth rot, fungus, abrasions, bits of substrate getting stuck where it can't get rid of them? I have no idea, but I'm sure there's someone out there who could either tell you what small tweaks to its care might help accommodate its issue, or even just assure you that it doesn't need anything any different from a normal ball python.

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Great post !!!

This is one snake that hopefully won't be fed LIVE food ...


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eceukool

she got back to me and said she didn't see that she had that defect (yeah right) i tried to have her at least give me half of my money back, but she keeps on trying to push the blame on me as to why the little one is not eating (telling me my temps must be off even though they are not, or saying that they often are stubborn and refuse foods). I will def add her to the list though that was mentioned. Feeding day is on Wednesday so hope all will go good and she takes it on her own this time. When i recieved her she weighed in at 87g on the 18 of November 2016 and the last time i weight her on the 3of January this year she weighed in at 111g I dont know if thats about average for a 4 month old. My concern is if she doesnt decide to eat on her own and she is full grown, what if i cant continue to assist feed her that way, what if she puts up of a fight. Stupid i know but fears are usually stupid and irrational :D
I guess time will tell. Corn snakes and red tail boas seem to be much more uncomplicated :D

Thank you all so much for your kindness and Answers!:)

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No I dont think its the kind of snake, hahaha as I had terrible trouble with a Red Tail and all my Balls and Burms been great for over 29 years.
I think it will work out as long as you stay on the train. Think positive, you might just be her best buddy from here on out and everything could be fine ;)

Not sure what's normal for a 4 month old. Mine was born beginning of August, and on Dec 25th she was 232g, (so almost 5 months old.) She's already on to weaned ups though and eats once a week. I think after weaned pups my store sells small rats.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

Great post !!!

This is one snake that hopefully won't be fed LIVE food ...

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The animal is capable and its the owners choice.

Public warning to keep the post on topic.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

The animal is capable and its the owners choice.

Public warning to keep the post on topic.

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I thought I was on topic ... I was wondering if it has a restricted / limited jaw movement or biting power then that would surely come into play with a live rat surely ...


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eceukool

she got back to me and said she didn't see that she had that defect (yeah right) i tried to have her at least give me half of my money back, but she keeps on trying to push the blame on me as to why the little one is not eating (telling me my temps must be off even though they are not, or saying that they often are stubborn and refuse foods). I will def add her to the list though that was mentioned. Feeding day is on Wednesday so hope all will go good and she takes it on her own this time. When i recieved her she weighed in at 87g on the 18 of November 2016 and the last time i weight her on the 3of January this year she weighed in at 111g I dont know if thats about average for a 4 month old. My concern is if she doesnt decide to eat on her own and she is full grown, what if i cant continue to assist feed her that way, what if she puts up of a fight. Stupid i know but fears are usually stupid and irrational :D
I guess time will tell. Corn snakes and red tail boas seem to be much more uncomplicated :D

Thank you all so much for your kindness and Answers!:)

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When you come to feed her on Wednesday make sure the rodent is nice and warm when you dangle it in front of it . Mine all strike from inside their hides and drag it in and back under . If it doesn't strike simply give it a 20 second blast with a hairdryer and offer it again immediately whilst it's still warm , keep repeating until it takes it .

This method rarely falls .


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Good New every one! I had decided to wait with feeding until today, and she took it! I had to get a bit on her nerves with it but she took it all on her own and is now satisfied with a full belly. I am over the moon! I just wanted to thank Everyone for being so kind and sending me encouraging words and tips on how to get her to eat!

I am so happy!

-Eceukool

Glad to hear or should I say read LoL

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eceukool

Good New every one! I had decided to wait with feeding until today, and she took it! I had to get a bit on her nerves with it but she took it all on her own and is now satisfied with a full belly. I am over the moon! I just wanted to thank Everyone for being so kind and sending me encouraging words and tips on how to get her to eat!

I am so happy!

-Eceukool

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Excellent !!

That should hopefully give you more confidence for next time :)


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eceukool

Good New every one! I had decided to wait with feeding until today, and she took it! I had to get a bit on her nerves with it but she took it all on her own and is now satisfied with a full belly. I am over the moon! I just wanted to thank Everyone for being so kind and sending me encouraging words and tips on how to get her to eat!

I am so happy!

-Eceukool

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Cool Bro... Things have a way of workink out. You got a new buddy and so does she. She is lucky you got her :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eceukool

Good New every one! I had decided to wait with feeding until today, and she took it! I had to get a bit on her nerves with it but she took it all on her own and is now satisfied with a full belly. I am over the moon! I just wanted to thank Everyone for being so kind and sending me encouraging words and tips on how to get her to eat!

I am so happy!

-Eceukool

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that's great! keep it up!

also could u post more pix pf your Albino Phantom? u don't see these too often. i love Albino's and the BEL complex. i hope to make some or get some more myself in the future. :) :gj:

I will try and make some pictures today and upload them. I already uploaded one though on my page :)

Great job! That seller/ breeder should be ashamed of herself period.

So happy for you !! And for your snake :)

Here is to many happy years together !!!