First Bath

So I'm planning on giving my BP her first bath. She hasn't had one yet and I think she's starting to shed but the humidity has been tough to keep lately. So I'm hoping a nice little bath will clean her and make her scales nice and shed ready.

What are the steps I should do for her bath?
What temp should the water be at?

Any helpful information would be greatly appreciated.

No need to bathe the snake. This will do more harm then good. It will strip the oils that aid in the shedding process and stress your snake out. Create a humid hide by putting some damp sphagnum moss in the snake's hide and that should help.

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Originally Posted by ballpythonluvr

No need to bathe the snake. This will do more harm then good. It will strip the oils that aid in the shedding process and stress your snake out...............

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Kind of hard to do when the oils are UNDERNEATH the skin.

All 7 of my snakes will soak themselves given the opportunity of a bowl large enough for them. Even when humidity is in the 70's and the bowl is on the cool side with temps in the mid 70's, thus they are not too hot.

Im not saying to bathe snakes for it can cause undue stress. Just give them the opportunity of a large bowl if that is a concern. Or wipe them down with a damp towel.

Tapatalk will not allow me to post pics right now. I will post photos of some of my snakes soaking in the blue when able.

I'd skip the soak and add damp moss to each hide.

If you must the water should not cover the snakes body and the water should be checked with a IR temp gun to verify it is within the acceptable range. 80-85F is what I would shoot for. Water that may only feel warm to you can be hot to your snake.

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Originally Posted by KMG

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If you must the water should not cover the snakes body and the water should be checked with a IR temp gun to verify it is within the acceptable range. 80-85F is what I would shoot for. Water that may only feel warm to you can be hot to your snake.

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Theses temps are important. I didn't get into that because I was trying to make ONE point.

A lot of people draw bath water that feels luke warm. Well our body temp is 98 degrees, so warm water to us is way too hot for your snake.

After I clean out the water bowls I just put cold tap water back in. About 75% of the time my snakes will be in their bowls within minutes after the freshening up.

Ball python do not need a bath there are no benefit to it quite the contrary, you need to provide proper humidity and if you can't and some shed is stucked simply use a warm damp towel to remove the stuck shed, letting your BP slither through it.

Alright after just cleaning her tank I put a small handful of damp moss inside the back of her hide so she has something to rub against. I also changed the moss in her moss bowl too. I keep a small bowl of moss in some water to help with humidity.

Should I take the moss out of her hide when it dries or leave it?

I leave it in mine. Once dry for a few days I spray it again. I don't make it fully moist again until the next shed.

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Originally Posted by ballpythonluvr

No need to bathe the snake. This will do more harm then good. It will strip the oils that aid in the shedding process and stress your snake out. Create a humid hide by putting some damp sphagnum moss in the snake's hide and that should help.

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Is there any scientific evidence to support this idea of washing the natural oils out of a snake's skin ?

Sounds rather like one of those made-up stories ...
Like the one where we all swallow spiders in the night ...

Well looks like I had to take the moss out of her hide. She wont go back in with it in there. I guess it takes up too much room.

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Originally Posted by FeathersRuff

Well looks like I had to take the moss out of her hide. She wont go back in with it in there. I guess it takes up too much room.

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Don't put a ton- you can even just line one side of the hide with it. I just flatten a little against one side and spray it.

I didn't put a whole lot in, just a tiny handful lined against the back.

Thats ok though, once she gets back in her hide ill put some in.

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

Is there any scientific evidence to support this idea of washing the natural oils out of a snake's skin ?

Sounds rather like one of those made-up stories ...
Like the one where we all swallow spiders in the night ...

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A snake will soak itself as needed if provided a bowl large enough.
They also produce their own natural oils to aid in shedding their skin.
As I highly doubt they skin is impermeable I would imagine that the oils can leach through just as with humans or any other animal.
So you can dry your own skin out by washing your hands too much, What makes you think you couldn't soak a snake too much?
There are people that have snake that continually have bad sheds and they also continue to bathe their animals.

Personally I think you believe you need too believe in both sides. :rofl::rofl:

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

A snake will soak itself as needed if provided a bowl large enough.
They also produce their own natural oils to aid in shedding their skin.
As I highly doubt they skin is impermeable I would imagine that the oils can leach through just as with humans or any other animal.
So you can dry your own skin out by washing your hands too much, What makes you think you couldn't soak a snake too much?
There are people that have snake that continually have bad sheds and they also continue to bathe their animals.

Personally I think you believe you need too believe in both sides. :rofl::rofl:

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Sorry, I have to respond to few things here. I'm not being argumentative, just Devil's advocate and relay my experience and address the questions you offered.

I would not know if snake skin is semipermeable or not, good question.

Human skin dries out from the use of detergents, not water. Snakes don't use soap. Also I used to be a competitive waterskier spending 12-18 hrs a day training in and on the water many times. My skin didn't get dry. Also humans don't shed their skin in one piece like snakes. Our skin is constantly dying off and being replenished, so not that is not a good comparison.

For example, here is Punch. He was soaking day one of going into the blue and never came out of his bowl until shedding last night.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2017...9bbf2e400a.jpg
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2017...7b6976cc16.jpg

My BP adult spends 30-40% of her life soaking; my Boas, 50-60%, my Carpets 60-80%. And I will repeat, lowest humidity 50%, and highest in the low 70's. Bowls are all on the cool side in the 70's, so the snakes are not too hot. Hot spots run 88-90 degrees, so husbandry is fine.

I'm just giving my experience, so that is my reality. I don't think bathing your snake is a good idea. But this "bathing your snake washes away oils" is b.s. I just believe in giving them the opportunity to soak if THEY decide to.

Yes, my 7 snakes are not an adequate number for a scientific study. But when you look at how much of their life is spent soaking and they ALL end up with perfect one piece sheds tells me there is definitely not any washing away oils.

This why I don't think a snake can soak too much. But I believe the owner soaking their snake can do it too much by way of stress on the snake, not the hydration itself.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2017...c5d66cef65.jpg
Butch soaking while in the blue.

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Originally Posted by Reinz

I just believe in giving them the opportunity to soak if THEY decide to.

Yes, my 7 snakes are not an adequate number for a scientific study. But when you look at how much of their life is spent soaking and they ALL end up with perfect one piece sheds tells me there is definitely not any washing away oils.

This why I don't think a snake can soak too much. But I believe the owner soaking their snake can do it too much by way of stress on the snake, not the hydration itself.

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Picking just a couple points of your post, the animals soak on their own choice.
Still doesn't change the fact that there are animals with continual shed problems that owners continue to soak and continue to have problems.
This makes me wonder if maybe those animals are not producing the needed oils due to some other continual problems with husbandry?
I was one that did bathe my first ball not knowing any different. Dry broken sheds tell me there was a problem doing this.
I posted a video of my yellow belly shedding while I was weighing him. A fresh shed skin has a really weird oil/slime feel to it.
My observations are my own.

Solely on ball pythons, here's a quote from the Institute of Physics and the Bioinspiration Biomimetrics journal about oil secretion:

"...the royal python and a lizard called a sandfish skink – live in very dry environments and don’t secrete oils or other liquids onto their skin" (Greiger 2015)

I am no herpetologist--but as an evolutionary biologist, I find that citing and using empirical evidence holds far more value than stating anecdotal, just-so-stories. Although I did not look far into the nitty-gritty of ecdysis, perhaps this article can shed some light on how ball pythons (and certain lizards) locomote, and how the supposed snake oil does not apply to certain reptiles, especially those originating from drier environments, i.e. Africa. In fact, the "oily", smooth feeling we feel from their scales has a lot more to do with its structure and orientation. Now, perhaps this might not apply to boas and other types of pythons, but as I disclosed earlier on, I'm merely talking about ball pythons. :)

Here's a glimpse of the research if anyone is interested: http://www.iop.org/news/15/jul/page_65881.html

https://youtu.be/MU1EMrc_F7A

Didn't have anything else to do at the moment.
Running 7 times normal. Shed took a little over 20 minutes

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

Picking just a couple points of your post, the animals soak on their own choice.
Still doesn't change the fact that there are animals with continual shed problems that owners continue to soak and continue to have problems.
This makes me wonder if maybe those animals are not producing the needed oils due to some other continual problems with husbandry?
I was one that did bathe my first ball not knowing any different. Dry broken sheds tell me there was a problem doing this.
I posted a video of my yellow belly shedding while I was weighing him. A fresh shed skin has a really weird oil/slime feel to it.
My observations are my own.

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Sure there may be problems with the owners soaking. Maybe because it's on the owner's timing. By allowing the snake to choose, it's on the snake's timing, for it knows WHEN to soak, not the owner.

Of course the shed skin feels oily, it is inside out. If you say it's still oily after unrolling that is because the outside part of the skin was in direct contact with the inside while rolled up.

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Originally Posted by SnakeCharm

Solely on ball pythons, here's a quote from the Institute of Physics and the Bioinspiration Biomimetrics journal about oil secretion:

"...the royal python and a lizard called a sandfish skink – live in very dry environments and don’t secrete oils or other liquids onto their skin" (Greiger 2015)

I am no herpetologist--but as an evolutionary biologist, I find that citing and using empirical evidence holds far more value than stating anecdotal, just-so-stories. Although I did not look far into the nitty-gritty of ecdysis, perhaps this article can shed some light on how ball pythons (and certain lizards) locomote, and how the supposed snake oil does not apply to certain reptiles, especially those originating from drier environments, i.e. Africa. In fact, the "oily", smooth feeling we feel from their scales has a lot more to do with its structure and orientation. Now, perhaps this might not apply to boas and other types of pythons, but as I disclosed earlier on, I'm merely talking about ball pythons. :)

Here's a glimpse of the research if anyone is interested: http://www.iop.org/news/15/jul/page_65881.html

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I appreciate this.

Maybe they are saying oils aren't secreted because of the lack of sebaceous glands. But there has to be some kind of lube for the shedding process. If it is not endogenous oils then it must be lipid (fat) like.

If water, from soaking and or the humidity is the lube, then why the oily feel? ( Rhetorical question, not a challenge to SnakeCharm)

I just want the real answer, not win any debates.

SnakeCharm, I read your article. I believe my just so stories carry more weight.

That article is feferring to oils secreted to the outside of the skin as a lube for the snake to travel with less friction. It has nothing to do with oils for shedding or to make the skin pliable.

Sorry, that comment from the article holds no weight.

That's a cool video Pit. I haven't been able catch mine shedding yet. I'd love to get it on video...

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Originally Posted by cletus

That's a cool video Pit. I haven't been able catch mine shedding yet. I'd love to get it on video...

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Wish I could have gotten the start

It might have already been said but I'm just going to say it anyway appearantly it's bad to wash your snakes as it washes off oils and this is what I was recently told on here by a user when I said I did when my snake would be stuck in shed and he said I shouldn't bath at all and the only time I do a bath it's more of a soak for the reason of stuck shed but I'm trying different methods for that guy next time he gets like that

retro gaming pokemon for gbc/gba p.s. I've never played go nor shall i !!!!!

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Originally Posted by Ballpythonguy92

It might have already been said but I'm just going to say it anyway appearantly it's bad to wash your snakes as it washes off oils and this is what I was recently told on here by a user when I said I did when my snake would be stuck in shed and he said I shouldn't bath at all and the only time I do a bath it's more of a soak for the reason of stuck shed but I'm trying different methods for that guy next time he gets like that

retro gaming pokemon for gbc/gba p.s. I've never played go nor shall i !!!!!

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I don't think there's any proof that soaking washes away the oils in a snake skin . Many snakes choose to spend hours or even DAYS in water - that's in captivity and the wild . It's more a case of people wanting others to offer the opportunity to soak by providing a big water bowl rather than actively soaking them in a container of water .

That part about washing oils away may just be hogwash to scare people into not soaking their snakes .


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Yea that's one thing I even thought of is the times I've caught mine soaking in their own dishes but it's been something that's always been brought up when I post about soaking mine to get the shed off

retro gaming pokemon for gbc/gba p.s. I've never played go nor shall i !!!!!

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Originally Posted by Ballpythonguy92

Yea that's one thing I even thought of is the times I've caught mine soaking in their own dishes but it's been something that's always been brought up when I post about soaking mine to get the shed off

retro gaming pokemon for gbc/gba p.s. I've never played go nor shall i !!!!!

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Soaking snakes to get a bad / stuck shed seems to be more prevalent over here in the U.K. A quick 20 minute soak helps greatly if the snake is dehydrated as well . That said LIVE feeding is massively frowned upon over here yet it's seemingly the norm over in the US.

Just two different cultures , I guess


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I'm in canada and I don't hear much of an over feeding issue here but I have heard that in America aswell lol but again alot of breeders say they don't and their animals show they arnt over fed but I soak aswell because it's very dry at times where I live but the summers are usually very humid which is nice

retro gaming pokemon for gbc/gba p.s. I've never played go nor shall i !!!!!

My Burmese loves the Bath tub. I will run a bath, he will hang out, swim under the water, and then do his business... i then empty the water and refill where he likes to hang out for 20 min. One problem it causes for me is the amount of Urine... He drinks so much of it he ends up pissing like a water gun.. Will spray the whole tank with a blast hahhhaha
My Balls are a different snake, they are much more timid. Some day theirs are always stressed and because of that they tell everyone else not to stress snakes... You'll have to see how it works for you. Sometimes I think the world has turned into cookie cutters, everyone thinks the same rules apply to everything and it just isn't so. Try, learn and research to do things healthy and safe for the animals. 👍🏼

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Originally Posted by Ballpythonguy92

I'm in canada and I don't hear much of an over feeding issue here but I have heard that in America aswell lol but again alot of breeders say they don't and their animals show they arnt over fed but I soak aswell because it's very dry at times where I live but the summers are usually very humid which is nice

retro gaming pokemon for gbc/gba p.s. I've never played go nor shall i !!!!!

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Over feeding ?? I mentioned LIVE feeding ??


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Originally Posted by Mr Sully

My Burmese loves the Bath tub. I will run a bath, he will hang out, swim under the water, and then do his business.

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You do know a Burm's natural habitat is tropical right? Completely different from Ball Pythons.

Lol oops my mistake I miss read it I was partly asleep

retro gaming pokemon for gbc/gba p.s. I've never played go nor shall i !!!!!

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

You do know a Burm's natural habitat is tropical right? Completely different from Ball Pythons.

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Yup I do... Just saying to try and see what works.. My buddys Burm wont stay in the tub at all.. So im just saying we all got to see what works. (Unless ofcourse its already proven dangerous for the animal already)

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Originally Posted by Mr Sully

Yup I do... Just saying to try and see what works.. My buddys Burm wont stay in the tub at all.. So im just saying we all got to see what works. (Unless ofcourse its already proven dangerous for the animal already)

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Your buddy may be using water that is warm to the touch which can be too uncomfortable for a snake. It's best to take the snake's temp with a temp gun and use water only a few degrees warmer.

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Originally Posted by Reinz

Your buddy may be using water that is warm to the touch which can be too uncomfortable for a snake. It's best to take the snake's temp with a temp gun and use water only a few degrees warmer.

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Intersting you sugest that... I know the Temp gun wont go threw glass so i wonder how Water works with it... (Thinking of you could get false temps from the Porcelain?

My temp guns work on the water coming out of the faucet. I never tried it on a bowl of water.

I use my temp gun in the Kitchen on liquid and solids all the time.

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Originally Posted by Reinz

That article is feferring to oils secreted to the outside of the skin as a lube for the snake to travel with less friction. It has nothing to do with oils for shedding or to make the skin pliable.

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"Although I did not look far into the nitty-gritty of ecdysis, perhaps this article can shed some light on how ball pythons (and certain lizards) locomote, and how the supposed snake oil does not apply to certain reptiles, especially those originating from drier environments"

Hi Reinz. Yes, you are right, the article indeed refers to oils being secreted outside of the skin and how oil does not play any role in a snake's ability to locomote. I did specify that I was not talking about ecdysis, which is the technical term for shedding. I made sure to disclose this on my last post, seeing that I did not look into the specific fluid that snakes secrete whilst shedding.

My goal was to point out that snake oils--snakes secreting oils outside of their shed whilst shedding--holds no scientific validity, particularly with royal pythons and certain lizards. Now, for the fluid within the shed whilst shedding, I truly do not know the answer to this as I have not looked further into it, nor will I make an anecdotal claim on what it may be simply because just-so-stories are just that, just-so-stories. Perhaps that's just how I think or have been taught to think, but that shouldn't discourage anyone from believing what they want to believe. Admittedly, I think that it is best to inform up-and-coming bp enthusiasts proven facts, not experiential "facts". Heck, the last time I checked, pet stores were still telling new owners to feed their snakes in separate containers, yet we all know here that this supposed "fact" is untrue and holds no scientific value...at least not yet ;).

Anyway, before I go on a completely unnecessary tangent on feeding containers, I hope this clarifies things :).

Point well taken. Thank you for taking the time and effort to clarify. :)

I'm curious for those of you with BPs that like to soak before a shed if they are doing it while in blue or right up to the point of shedding. There clearly is some sort of oil under the skin that is shed and the shed itself seems permeable. This would make it sound reasonable that soaking a snake right before it sheds could allow some of that oil to be rinsed off (keeping in mind, soaking them in warm water is different than them soaking in a water dish or water source (usually cooler than the ambient temp).

Sticking to BPs here (since other snakes are adapted to other climates), I have only noticed my BPs wanting to soak when their general humidity is off. This has happened recently with the dry winter we've had here and I've had a couple of stuck sheds I've had to help by soaking them while letting them run through my hands until the shed comes off. My new technique is to simply spray a bit of water at the entrance to their hide daily when they are in shed. They are on a paper substrate and this keeps things nice and moist in their hide. Been having nothing but good sheds lately.

The idea of pre-emptively soaking a BP to help their shed mostly sounds harmful as BPs are so easily stressed. It is much better just to give them a moist environment to facilitate a good shed and only soak if it doesn't go so well and they need help.

I am not in favor of pre-emptive soaks or baths at all.

I just like to offer my snakes the option to do it on their own if they wish.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...59a5b55072.png

My BP was the last snake to get a bowl. I didn't not think to offer it to her until she kept trying to soak in her dish which was way too small. In all of the photos you can see the humidity gauges read in the 60's and 70's during her soaks.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...9457f6c0b7.png
(Water dish is way too small, note humidity gauge)

Shedding wasn't generally a problem until two times a year or two ago. Her humidity levels were fine, but the shedding was coming off in pieces on two different occasions. Come to think of it, it may have been because too MUCH rough stuff was in her cage. (Log and lava rocks)

I know for sure that my Boas and Carpets will stay in theirs bowls until shed.

But I can not be 100% sure that my BP has, even though I want to think that she has. I'm just so used to it I quit paying attention. I will make note of it next time she sheds. But she HAS soaked while in the BLUE for sure, even with proper humidity.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...4e865b3b9d.jpg
Elvira

Mine doesn't soak at all at any time for any reason. So, you can be sure each one is different.

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Originally Posted by SiXandSeven8ths

Mine doesn't soak at all at any time for any reason. So, you can be sure each one is different.

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I agree 100%. They know what they need - or don't.

Wow Im surprised a lot of people replied to this.

Yet I'm still unsure if I should maybe put a bowl of water in her tank for her to soak in or not.

For some reason my reticulated pythons are getting stuck sheds even though they are in tubs of Reptichip with pretty high humidity. I've been taking them out and soaking in a tote full of warm water. I usually do 95F but on the last tub I did 100F, boy they don't like it that hot! But at 95F they seem to like it just fine and it cools down really fast so it doesn't stay that temp very long. In fact it gets pretty cool after just five minutes or so.

I've seen snakes that just love to soak, so I personally don't see any issue with bathing a snake.

What temp should the water be at?

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Originally Posted by FeathersRuff

What temp should the water be at?

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If you provide a bowl large enough they will soak when they want to.
Room temperature is warm enough.