Should I breed my pewter X cinnamon

Hi I'm just wondering if I should breed my female she's 1422 grams last weighed near the beginning of december she's got a really good length and girth she's also pretty muscled up but she looks like she can breed and my male cinnamon can for sure but I wanted your opinions and note the pictures were taken near the beginning of December

My beautiful pewter I love her alot
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2017...c1a1a33d53.jpg

Mate cinnamon
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2017...e790fc739b.jpg

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If you are talking about breeding pewter and cinnamon together, why not? Haha they could actually make a beautiful combination for me! ( Cinnamon pewter ). Make sure you did I lot of research about breeding and you're fine. Should you breed them? YES!

Super cinnamons are a possibility as well as silver bullets, and these do come with the increased possibility of kinks. It's a genetic thing. You can search on here to find more information about it.

Just something to be aware of.

Yea that's my only problem is kinking as their dad had a slight kink in his tail and was removed when a baby I only found out it was cut off recently in a video explains small tail kinks usually get cut off so would they be more prone to kinking if their dad was slightly kinked? And my questions about her weight as I've never bred one this low but she's been putting on good weight and would lay late in the year if she does and I've Been wanting supers a d silver bullets

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Same with my caramel albino I know he may kink as well With babies

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It's not necessarily because the father had kinks, it just seems to be something with the super cinnamon complex - they produce more kinks than other some other complexes. Which is why most people will breed a cinnamon to a black pastel to make an 8 ball, rather than two cinnamon's.

So the question is really this: are you prepared to take care of babies that have deformities, perhaps severe deformities, that may not be able to be sold?

If they're able to eat shed and go to the bathroom fine they will go to homes free but only to people I know personally can take care of it and won't try and breed or sell for cash as for my I may keep one but that's because it may tug them heart strings lol I've kind of actually been waiting to hatch a 1 or no eyed snake I've seen dozens in real life and alot more online and idk why I really like them and want to watch one grow up as I've heard from owners that they are just the same as one with eyes and it's mainly because the heat pits and sense of smell

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Well, it's great that the female pewter is close to the safe breeding weight but you should take into consideration her age too. I see where you say her girth and length is acceptable but IMO age is a better barometer of her reproductive capability. Good luck with the project too. :)

She turns 2 in may I believe but let me go back and look for the date

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Yeup may 10th 2015

Fresh out the egg only minutes old I was soo happy because 4 cinnamons came out then her and then 2 more cinnies lol I bred a super to a pastel and the odds kicked me hard
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2017...807c7aec38.jpg

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Well she the pewter doesn't want to breed and gets mean when I put the male cinnamon in within 5 mins I heard loud banging so I jumped up and ran out and I heard hissing and banging still I opened it slowly and they stopped and she looked very agitated and flighty just not happy her space was intruded lol any ideas why? Is it because she's not mature? I'm going to try another male tomorrow after she has some rest but I'm worried this is what happened before when I had tried and just shrugged it off but I did make a post before and also why I made another but this time asking if I should breed her aka this thread lol

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Wow , the first thing that comes to mind is are you sure on the sexes of the animals? For them to be so aggressive towards each other is unusual for opposite sexed individuals.

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Originally Posted by Albert Clark

Wow , the first thing that comes to mind is are you sure on the sexes of the animals? For them to be so aggressive towards each other is unusual for opposite sexed individuals.

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Yes I'm 100% sure the pewter is a female and the cinnamon is male but I'm going to see if she reacts that way with another male or just the cinnamon

retro gaming pokemon for gbc/gba p.s. I've never played go nor shall i !!!!!

Personally I'd give the female another year before breeding.

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Originally Posted by AbsoluteApril

Personally I'd give the female another year before breeding.

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That's what I was planning to do back in October but when I last weighed her late November early December that's when I took that picture so she's got some more or less weight then in the picture but I can't personally do anything if she doesn't want too lol

retro gaming pokemon for gbc/gba p.s. I've never played go nor shall i !!!!!

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Originally Posted by AbsoluteApril

Personally I'd give the female another year before breeding.

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I would also, she's not even two years old yet.

Personally I wouldn't breed a kinked animal either. Granted it might be just an incubation issue, but what if it's not? Then you're just propagating bad genes. For something like a single gene black pastel it won't be difficult to find one without any deformities.

Ok the cinnamon and pewter are not KINKED in any way their farther had a kinked tail that was less then an inch long and was cut off before I had even got him because I got the dad a super cinnamon with a stubbed tail from from some guy who told me it was kinked and that's all but he had no kinking in the spine just the missing piece of tail

retro gaming pokemon for gbc/gba p.s. I've never played go nor shall i !!!!!

I find it really funny when people don't read fully what's going on because I wouldn't take a kinked deformed animal and breed it and what I said earlier is I'm always thinking about what if I get kinked animals what am I going to do well I also said if they can eat poop and shed fine aswell as move without much difficulty then they will avoid the freezer of death and be giving away for free to good homes to only people I trust who won't resell or breed but keep as a loving pet which I know a few people that would but I also have a soft spot for deformed animals

retro gaming pokemon for gbc/gba p.s. I've never played go nor shall i !!!!!

But you bred the kinked deformed father...

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Originally Posted by Asherah

But you bred the kinked deformed father...

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Actually he doesn't say that, he could have bought them both from someone who bred the kinked daddy. But yes, since there is known kinking in the line I wouldn't pair with anything in the 8-ball complex. IIRC Liesen line black pastels tend to kink less than other lines.

As for what to do if you get a kinked critter, that does depend. I've produced two (BRB's). One passed quickly, the other I still have. It eats, poops, and sheds ok. I give it two smaller feeders as I don't think a normal-sized feeder would easily get past its neck kink.

If you do need to cull a kinked animal putting it in the freezer is one of the most inhumane ways to euthanize it as reptiles do not just "go to sleep". It's been found that their brains remain active while their bodies freeze, so they feel a lot of pain before they die. Pith the brain instead for instant painless death.

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Originally Posted by bcr229

Actually he doesn't say that, he could have bought them both from someone who bred the kinked daddy. But yes, since there is known kinking in the line I wouldn't pair with anything in the 8-ball complex. IIRC Liesen line black pastels tend to kink less than other lines.

As for what to do if you get a kinked critter, that does depend. I've produced two (BRB's). One passed quickly, the other I still have. It eats, poops, and sheds ok. I give it two smaller feeders as I don't think a normal-sized feeder would easily get past its neck kink.

If you do need to cull a kinked animal putting it in the freezer is one of the most inhumane ways to euthanize it as reptiles do not just "go to sleep". It's been found that their brains remain active while their bodies freeze, so they feel a lot of pain before they die. Pith the brain instead for instant painless death.

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Op says they got the father kinked (a super cinny) with tail cut off and posts pictures of the pewter as a hatchling that was a result of breeding a super cinny to a pastel. We know the father was the kinked cinny, therefore (without reading again) the assumption is that op bred the deformed father to produce the pewter and cinny in question.

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Originally Posted by Ballpythonguy92

Yea that's my only problem is kinking as their dad had a slight kink in his tail and was removed when a baby I only found out it was cut off recently in a video explains small tail kinks usually get cut off so would they be more prone to kinking if their dad was slightly kinked? And my questions about her weight as I've never bred one this low but she's been putting on good weight and would lay late in the year if she does and I've Been wanting supers a d silver bullets

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This post the father is kinked

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Originally Posted by Ballpythonguy92

Yeup may 10th 2015

Fresh out the egg only minutes old I was soo happy because 4 cinnamons came out then her and then 2 more cinnies lol I bred a super to a pastel and the odds kicked me hard
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2017...807c7aec38.jpg

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This post is the resulting clutch. "I bred a super to a pastel" unless this is a different pewter suddenly in question. Op bred the kinked super.

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Yea but what I'm meaning by that is this tiny tiny piece of his tail and wondering if that will happen if I bred the completely unkinked babies to each other if I'd get the same kind of kinking or worse due to the farther having a stubbed tail due to it being cut due to a small tail kinks the farther wasn't messed up like most think when they hear that word

retro gaming pokemon for gbc/gba p.s. I've never played go nor shall i !!!!!

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Originally Posted by Asherah

But you bred the kinked deformed father...

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Wasn't anything wrong with the dad he was bred to many females before I got him and even after me because it doesn't have spinal kinking or duck billing or what not he just had the tip of his tail kinked up or to the side and what most breeders appearantly do is cut that off and why I said I think that's why he had a stubbed tail which doesn't mean it had a kinked tail that was cut it simply can be a birth defect as super cinnies have alot of them but again I also didn't learn of this tail cutting up until 6 months ago and up till then I believed he was born with that stubbed tail but it never hindered his ability to poop shed or breed he has fathered many babies from what I know but only that 1 clutch with me ill go see if I have pictures of his tail just to show every one what he looks like

retro gaming pokemon for gbc/gba p.s. I've never played go nor shall i !!!!!

Also want to say this got way off topic I just wanted to know if the babies would have the same tail defect or worse lol but either way somethings bound to happen when you bring up something like kinking

retro gaming pokemon for gbc/gba p.s. I've never played go nor shall i !!!!!

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Originally Posted by Ballpythonguy92

Wasn't anything wrong with the dad he was bred to many females before I got him and even after me because it doesn't have spinal kinking or duck billing or what not he just had the tip of his tail kinked up or to the side and what most breeders appearantly do is cut that off and why I said I think that's why he had a stubbed tail which doesn't mean it had a kinked tail that was cut it simply can be a birth defect as super cinnies have alot of them but again I also didn't learn of this tail cutting up until 6 months ago and up till then I believed he was born with that stubbed tail but it never hindered his ability to poop shed or breed he has fathered many babies from what I know but only that 1 clutch with me ill go see if I have pictures of his tail just to show every one what he looks like

retro gaming pokemon for gbc/gba p.s. I've never played go nor shall i !!!!!

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Kinked or stub tailed either one was a deformity. The size or position of the kink is irrelevant. I'd also like to point out that cutting a kink out of an animal, is so far as I know, not a common practice among breeders (although reputable breeders feel free to step in and correct me here) unless done by a vet for the heath and safety of the animal. My point with this is that you claim not to breed a deformed animals yet you did, and now you want to pair 2 full siblings from this same animal, all before the female is even two years old. Weight or not, it's not shall we say, exemplary breeding practices. Three is generally held as a sign of maturity. I have heard of breedings at 2, going on three, but breeding an aminal a little over a year and a half could arguably be called selfishness. It's simply not in the best interest of the animal. You might want to step back a moment and consider why you are doing these things rather than tossing snakes at each other. They deserve the best care that you can provide them.

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http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2017...4cd66a2eb5.jpg

This is a screenshot of a picture where I was holding a few snakes but I zoomed in on my super cinnamons tail
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2017...6507de475e.jpg

I know the mom doesn't matter but I wanted to include a pic I had of her after breeding but before laying eggs
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2017...52b82da503.jpg

On the eggs of the clutch those 2 babies I'm wanting to breed came from theirs Moss all over still lol she destroyed the hide box
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2017...628a1650a6.jpg

retro gaming pokemon for gbc/gba p.s. I've never played go nor shall i !!!!!

Pete khal stats tail cutting in a video about kinked caramel albinos go look it up

retro gaming pokemon for gbc/gba p.s. I've never played go nor shall i !!!!!

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Originally Posted by Asherah

Kinked or stub tailed either one was a deformity. The size or position of the kink is irrelevant. I'd also like to point out that cutting a kink out of an animal, is so far as I know, not a common practice among breeders (although reputable breeders feel free to step in and correct me here) unless done by a vet for the heath and safety of the animal. My point with this is that you claim not to breed a deformed animals yet you did, and now you want to pair 2 full siblings from this same animal, all before the female is even two years old. Weight or not, it's not shall we say, exemplary breeding practices. Three is generally held as a sign of maturity. I have heard of breedings at 2, going on three, but breeding an aminal a little over a year and a half could arguably be called selfishness. It's simply not in the best interest of the animal. You might want to step back a moment and consider why you are doing these things rather than tossing snakes at each other. They deserve the best care that you can provide them.

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My point is I wouldn't breed a deformed animal as in its extremely kinked where it has like pyramid like kinks or duck bills where it can't eat proper even if an animal has no eyes or 1 I wouldn't breed it having nothing wrong besides the littlest bit of its tail missing doesn't classify as a deformed animal that's an animal that's had a minor accident but is fine in every other way like ok say I lost a finger does that make me deformed no makes me have 1 less finger I can still do everything fine

retro gaming pokemon for gbc/gba p.s. I've never played go nor shall i !!!!!

Also I had posted and asked should I breed her and most people said yes so you stating that and saying I'm selfish is completely wrong because if I was selfish I wouldn't have asked and would have just went and breed them without caring what happens to them when that's not the case or I would have them together right now even though the female has already proven that she doesn't want to and hence this thread was done she was big enough to breed but she chose not too and now it's gone into kinking when my question towards that had also been answered and they can come out kinked and they may not come out kinked so I'm pretty much done here and anything else you post I won't be reading as it will be a waste of time for me as I got my answers

retro gaming pokemon for gbc/gba p.s. I've never played go nor shall i !!!!!

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Originally Posted by Ballpythonguy92

My point is I wouldn't breed a deformed animal as in its extremely kinked where it has like pyramid like kinks or duck bills where it can't eat proper even if an animal has no eyes or 1 I wouldn't breed it having nothing wrong besides the littlest bit of its tail missing doesn't classify as a deformed animal that's an animal that's had a minor accident but is fine in every other way like ok say I lost a finger does that make me deformed no makes me have 1 less finger I can still do everything fine

retro gaming pokemon for gbc/gba p.s. I've never played go nor shall i !!!!!

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An accident is something within a completely different realm than a deformity. Cutting off the deformity does not rid you of the deformity, only the appearance of it. An injury is just that, an injury with no genetic or reproductive consequences - unless the reproductive organs are involved. Simply further reasons you should take a look at what you are doing.

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Originally Posted by Ballpythonguy92

Also I had posted and asked should I breed her and most people said yes...

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...right up until you said the female wasn't even two years old yet. Weight is not the only factor that determines whether or not a female is breedable, any more than thinking a 150 pound twelve year old girl is ready to breed.

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Originally Posted by bcr229

...right up until you said the female wasn't even two years old yet. Weight is not the only factor that determines whether or not a female is breedable, any more than thinking a 150 pound twelve year old girl is ready to breed.

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This made me laugh... Honestly I wasn't even aware that kinking was an issue with the super cinnamons. Does the same thing happen to super black pastels and 8 balls? Just another reason to avoid going for super cinnamon combos I suppose

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Originally Posted by kxr

This made me laugh... Honestly I wasn't even aware that kinking was an issue with the super cinnamons. Does the same thing happen to super black pastels and 8 balls? Just another reason to avoid going for super cinnamon combos I suppose

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Yes, it's a problem with the whole complex.
http://www.owalreptiles.com/issues.php

Ultimately it all comes down to where each and everyone of us draw the line when it comes to breeding, some people chose to breed anything to just anything just because they can and some have higher standards and will only breed the best in the hope to achieve the best.

It's all a matter of how you want to be define as a breeder, personally selective breeding to me is very important.