My husbandry SUCKS

Okay guys. I fully anticipate a good bashing upon posting this thread. But I need some help/reassurance (I'm flipping all the way out). I got my first BP on nov 30th. He's a pewter ball, six months old today. He's incredibly sweet and docile, an excellent eater, and overall the best little guy in the world - great with handling/bonding, but he doesn't like or trust anyone outside of myself yet. I digress..

before getting Bix I did what felt like a million hours of research. I pulled info from a bunch of different trustable sources and ironed out what I believe to be the most reliable information. I made charts, a care guide, and an info sheet for others to read before engaging with him. I am a helicopter mom. And I am officially losing my poop.

Choosing to own a pet is a privilege, and it's the responsibility of the owner to provide the highest quality of care possible. Bottom line, I know what needs to be done, and I'm trying. So please be gentle.

Onto the meat of it. My husbandry SUCKS. I have a temp regulator that my mats are plugged into (I think it's all zoo med). The regulator doesn't have numbers on it, just a knob. It's been 3 weeks and I'm still screwing with it and I cannot for the life of me keep the temp stable. I've been using a digital thermometer and a digital hygrometer. As far as humidity is concerned, it's also been touch and go. Most of the time it's either too high or too low. I just purchased a mistking and it's not. Helping. Needless to say I've spent hundreds of dollars to no freaking avail. I just ordered glass pieces for the lid of his next tank and a whole mess of crap to fill it with but my pockets are officially dry and he's not ready for the 40gal yet.

I reached my tipping point today. I was gone for less than 24 hours. Don't hit me when I say this. When I got home, the readings on my mistking system put the temp at 115 degrees and the humidity at 99.9% (I think he rolled over it after soaking because the sensor was dripping wet but my substrate was soaked so I know it was still too high).

I am so scared for his health and frustrated to near tears trying to figure this out. RI's, mouth/scale rot, belly burns, all of it. I'm paranoid. He hasn't shown any signs of illness or injury yet but I'm afraid that due to all of this the damage may already be done. I'm taking him to a herp vet tomorrow to get him checked out and to do a culture just in case, but good lord I can't take this much longer. I want my guy to be happy and healthy in my home for the next 30 years.

PLEASE HELP ME. If you've had a fail proof environment for your BP that has lasted months, years, I'll take even a week without this stress.. Help me!!

Put him in a tub. It'll cost you maybe $20 and should solve the heat and humidity problem.

Also, that Zoomed thermostat is trash. Return it if you can and order a cheap digital Hydrofarm off amazon instead.

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What is your snake housed in? Personally I use pvc cages with radiant heat panels on the top and flex watt heating underneath, controlled by herpstat thermostats. I don't mist or worry and have no issues at all. Plastic tubs are also good at holding humidity in, along with a substrate like reptichip or cypress mulch.

The first step is admitting you have issues and being brave enough to ask questions and not just think you know it all. Kudos to you.

I am far from an expert, but how 'bout starting with a picture of the whole setup, and some details about equipment and substrate?

I'll definitely get a tub tomorrow and try it out for a few days. It's not the zoomed thermostat that I'm using, I'm getting my readings from the mistking upgraded digital whatever that I ordered with the misting system. It's the zoomed regulator I'm using. The thing that turns the power to my mats on and off depending on the temp. Are those unreliable too? I've wasted so much money on this crap. Why should I do about keeping up a day/night schedule if I use a tub?

He's in a 10gal zoomed reptihabitat. Does this brand just suck all around? Where did you get your PVC cage?

Location of the "thermostat" probe?

Thanks. I'll post a picture when I get home. I'm using coconut husk shavings, a mistking system, and zoomed heat mats and a zoomed temp regulator

I move it from left to middle to right when I do a full check. Otherwise it's in the middle above the substrate

A cheap Sterilite tub is fine for now. The Top MUST latch, or you can use velcro hook and loop tape around the outside. (Nevertheless, any enclosure with doors that open from the front, rather than access thru the top, is just easier.) Put your money for now, into a Herpstat. Depending on your budget, Hydrofarm is MUCH cheaper, but on/off, so provides a less stable temp for the animal. In my experience, they work fine, however. (I would also suggest not to bother with any thing Vivarium Electronics, but maybe I got a couple of lemons, there.) You also want a lazer temp gun. Heat is easiest with a proper t-stat regulated pad, or a radiant heat panel, again, t-stat regulated...no matter WHAT the mfr says about either...seriously.

I trust absolutely nothing by Zoomed, but other people's mileage will vary.

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Originally Posted by Maggie Louise

I move it from left to middle to right when I do a full check. Otherwise it's in the middle above the substrate

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http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h1...psqcouxfgn.jpg

I couldn't keep my temps or humidity stable in my new bp display... Temp was too high, humidity was too low... So I moved the UTH under the larger water dish and it fixed itself. Haven't yet created snake soup, but I have the display next to my bed and I'm watching it like a hawk...

I would strongly, strongly, strongly recommend getting yourself a good, high-quality powerstrip with timer outlets and having literally twice as many thermometers / hygrometers in your displays as you need. Different brands too. I have 4 different brands in each enclosure so if 3 of them read the same and 1 is way off, I know exactly which one I can't trust. EVERYTHING needs to be hooked up to a secondary control of some kind, literally everything, if anyone tells you otherwise, don't listen. The only exception I can think of would be a dimmer on lights... Some lamps will blow with a dimmer on them. You need a thermostatic control for all of your heat sources to avoid disasters. UTH are just as dangerous, if not moreso, than a rock heater if they are not plugged into a thermostatic controller. A snake can easily tell when a heat rock starts and ends, and while they don't always crawl off, they can crawl off. An overheated UTH isn't as obvious to them and also runs the risk of cracking or melting whatever it is stuck to. Having some sort of control or protection from malfunctioning heat sources is vital to prevent injuries, death, and housefires.

As for the humidity, I am a firm believer in hand-misting everything. It is the only way to ensure it's done the way you want it done. Some people have way too many snakes to realistically do that, and in that situation, or with snakes that require very high humidity, I'd recommend putting a small UTH under a large water dish, with a second (cool) dish on the other end. Best part? You can stick a simple thermometer into the water dish and tell how warm it is very easily. There are cons to everything, nothing is perfect, there are things we all did 10 years ago that were fine back then and now we know that actually they weren't.

I use the exo terra glass terrariums and have small pieces of glass cut to fit the top where I need it, to keep the humidity in. If the humidity is too high, just leave the screen top open and it flies out like a fart in the wind. I only have three snakes, and only one of them is a bp, so take anything I say with a grain of salt. I do have to say, of all of the people I have ever heard of posting about bad husbandry, you are, hands down, the most caring pet parent I have ever seen out of all of them and your snake is very lucky to have you. Thank you for loving your snake.

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...psqcouxfgn.jpg

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Omg lmao the credits LOL dying:rofl:

The drawing is helpful, thanks. I feel like a dumbass having purchased all of this stuff that's now essentially useless and has proven itself as such. I should've done this months ago considering how much time I put into trying to do it right. Should I just return the stupid mistking? What kind of humidity gage should I get

LOLOLOL... I just noticed the credits

Calider
these all seem like really helpful ideas that took some trial and error and I appreciate your input, as well as everyone else's. I'm clearly just starting out and it's been killing me, this whole deal. It'll take some messing around with but with all of these tips I have more confidence in finding a way to put an end to this spiraling money pit. I already have glass cut-outs on the way and I have a thermostatic control, thankfully. I'm going to send this mistking back and use that money to invest in these really excellent suggestions. Like I said it's owner responsibility and loving that little guy and doing what I can to keep him calm and healthy is top priority. I'll do anything I have to. Thank you for recognizing that, I very much appreciate your compliment

I have piles of equipment that I bought that I no longer use, I think that's pretty typical. You have to find what works for you. It's expensive but it's trail and error and we are all trying to learn as we go. I started with glass aquariums and under tank heaters, tried all kinds of different substrates, decorations, hides, etc. I finally ended up going with an ARS rack and Reptichip coconut husk as the substrate. I mist every three days using a pump up 2 gallon sprayer that I bought from Home Depot. I found if you get Reptichip too wet it molds like crazy, best to just get it fairly wet but not soaking and let it really dry out before you spray it down again. I also clear out a spot in the back of the tub and put the snake directly on the plastic tub. If he makes a mess I move the Reptichip over and spray down the plastic with diluted Chlorhexidine that I bought on Amazon, wipe it dry and put the snake back on the plastic bottom, then wet down the Reptichip with water.

Right now I'm struggling with thermostats, the cheap Hydrofarm thermostats fail in the on position, just this week I found one that was over 100 degrees, probably has been that way for a couple weeks. No wonder some of my snakes weren't eating! I just ordered some Herpstat 4 thermostats, expensive but should be accurate temps for all my levels.

I actually used my glass aquariums to raise rodents, then finally moved them into another ARS rack system and it's just wonderful, saves me tons of time and money. Now I have a pile of empty aquariums in the garage LOL.

I've probably spent over $1,000 in equipment that I don't use anymore, seems like I keep expanding and outgrowing my current setup with better equipment that is more reliable, and saves time and money. Of course my goal is breeding and I have a lot of high end snakes that I've invested in, so probably more than an average hobbyist. I figure in a few years I'll get back all my invested money and money wasted if my snakes actually produce some offspring that I can sell.

From what I've seen from your setup I'd ditch the fogger / mister and mist by hand every few days and let the humidity spike and drop a bit. Then get a digital thermostat, ditch the dial one. Then get a temp monitor with high and low temp alarms. This is the one I use, I bought eight of them, one for each level in my rack system, all seem spot on as far as temps, great reviews, and they are cheap:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Ahh thank you so much. I've called mistking a few times to make sure I ship and rerun the mister properly but I haven't received an answer yet. Knowing others have dumped their money before is kind of reassuring - I haven't been crazy, just doing the whole hit and miss thing. I'm excited to get this worked out. Thank you for the link, I really appreciate your advice!

A. You can make that tank work. You can even make the 40 gallon work. I raised my ball in a 40. The key is drift wood, plants, and hides.

B. It sounds like you have a dinner and not a thermostat. That to can work but if the room temperature fluctuates much througout the day and night the temps in the tank will be riding and lowering constantly. A steady room temp helps.

C. Placing glass over the screen will really help humidity a heat.

D. Heat mats are not meant to great the entire enclosure. They are meant for a hotspot. If the room is cool you may need to add a lamp or che.

E. Herpstats are king in the world of tstats to me. I had a Hydrofarm and it failed within two months, in the on position.

F. Get a IR temp gun. It will save you a ton of stress and really help you get things right.

Yeah I just ordered a bunch of great stuff for his new tank set to arrive January 25th. The thermostat in my house is set at 72 at all times and switches on and off to keep it steady. I just discovered the glass panel idea so I ordered those as well. Hopefully they get here soon. My medium sized heat mat is on the hot side of the tank and a very small one is next to it, with no mat on the cool side to provide a heat gradient. I move the thermometer from left to right when I'm doing a full check, at least once every other day, but I'm not sure if both of my thermostats are reliable - the readings between the two vary slightly. You're probably right about the dimmer thing, this is all new to me so the lingo is lost upon me sometimes. I think my issue with heat has been the unlabeled knob on the dimmer - it has no numbers, just a dial and a green light that goes on and off depending on the temp. I've heard a lot about herpstats so that will be my next purchase. Do you have a suggestion about brands/places to purchase IR temp guns? Thank you for your input

I have two and both came from Amazon.

This is the most recent one I bought and I really like it.

On sale now for $20.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Get a rack. Problem solved

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Originally Posted by highqualityballz

Get a rack. Problem solved

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Rack, like everything else, still needs temps to be controlled via thermostat, and is completely pointless over kill if you're only ever housing one snake.

http://www.herptasticreptiles.com/category/caging

http://www.reptilebasics.com/

http://www.spyderrobotics.com/index....=index&cPath=1

There's a few good places to check out. And don't worry, the vast majority start out with their snakes in a bad setup and end up with a pile of useless junk and wasted money. When you know better, you do better.

I mean a rack is a good idea but it's a whole other can of worms to try to sort out and dump money into - I plan on having bix for at least two years before I purchase a female and even then, is a rack really worth it if I only have two? I feel I've had a few other great solutions that may work just fine, but if I ever end up expanding I'll keep that suggestion in mind. But thank you for your input, everyone who has responded has given me some pretty awesome direction.

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Originally Posted by GoingPostal

http://www.herptasticreptiles.com/category/caging

http://www.reptilebasics.com/

http://www.spyderrobotics.com/index....=index&cPath=1

There's a few good places to check out. And don't worry, the vast majority start out with their snakes in a bad setup and end up with a pile of useless junk and wasted money. When you know better, you do better.

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Thank you you for your reassurance it really does make me feel better about the whole mess, and you're right a lot of the time it's the only way to learn. Thanks for the links!

The advantage for keeping snakes in racks in that you can stack a lot of animals in a minimal amount of space. If you never have more than three snakes, and don't plan on breeding there's really no point. Just use a Rubbermaid or Sterilite tub of the appropriate size with a latching lid. Or if you have some money to invest, a nice PVC cage will give you the better heat and humidity control with the look of a glass tank vivarium.

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Originally Posted by GoingPostal

http://www.herptasticreptiles.com/category/caging

http://www.reptilebasics.com/

http://www.spyderrobotics.com/index....=index&cPath=1

There's a few good places to check out. And don't worry, the vast majority start out with their snakes in a bad setup and end up with a pile of useless junk and wasted money. When you know better, you do better.

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So true. Lots come to this forum and don't get the answers they want right off the bat and feel slighted, but fail to realize that the majority of those answers are based on experience and lessons learned from less than ideal decisions/purchases made in the past. Not pointing fingers at anyone. Just an observation.

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Originally Posted by GoingPostal

And don't worry, the vast majority start out with their snakes in a bad setup and end up with a pile of useless junk and wasted money. When you know better, you do better.

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Heck, I didn't even start out with useless stuff, just cheap. Upgraded along the way, but I still hang on to my old stuff juuuuust in case, lol.

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Originally Posted by Lizardlicks

Heck, I didn't even start out with useless stuff, just cheap. Upgraded along the way, but I still hang on to my old stuff juuuuust in case, lol.

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And the cheap stuff can be useful in a pinch if you ever end up with an unexpected snake.