Heat tape in my T8 - why so inefficient?

So I got my t8 and have had our BP in there about a week and a half - I'm very happy with it's ability to hold humidity compared to an aquarium - but the heat tape is not working as well as expected. I have my Herpstat probe on bottom where the heat tape is, and an Accu-rite thermometer inside with it's probe on the floor over the center of where the heat tape covers the bottom. But I'm finding that to get that probe up to the low 90s, I have to turn my Herpstat and heat tape to 104-105 degrees. And that's just to get the plastic floor up over 90 degrees, not any substrate on top of it. Is this normal? I didn't think I would have to heat that tape up so much to get it to penetrate through the plastic. And for reference, this is with humidity at 50-60% (I find changing the ambient humidity affects the temperature quite a bit due to heat loss from evaporation) and with the T8 on one of those plastic-topped portable tables with the metal legs that fold in. There is also a thin (1/8" maybe" board in between the T8 and the tabletop, because the table folds in the middle also and I felt the top wasn't quite flat from the joint, and I wanted the cage on a very flat surface so it wouldn't stress the plastic or something from the weight being unevenly carried. Anyway, I don't think there is any gap between the board and the heat taped cage bottom, which if there was might explain why the heat wasn't penetrating efficiently. Oh, and the room it's in is being kept around 74 degrees.

Thanks for reading all that jabber and for posting any thoughts!

Try using a heat gun or IR point thermometer to measure the temperature of the floor of the enclosure. Only a small portion of the Accu-Rite thermometer probe is in contact with the cage floor so it could be giving a falsely low reading.

That sounds about right. I had a similar setup and I decided to get rid of the heat tape and invested in an RHP. Personally, I think for the pvc cages, RHP is the way to go. If I had it to do over again, I wouldn't even bother purchasing the heat tape. The heat tape just isn't very efficient in the amount of heat it needs to put out in order to get the enclosure where you want it. The RHP on the other hand, is very efficient, in that it puts the heat right where you need it.

My suggestion would be to ditch the heat tape, and get and RHP (regulated with a thermostat, of course) :)

That's normal. You got to remember, the flexwatt has to heat through the 1/2" PVC too. And heat tapes will not heat the air fyi. So you want to always take the temp from the floor of the cage with an IR temp gun. Also it is recommended to use 1/4-1/2" of substrate. I have my Herpstats set to 100F to get around 90F on the floor with my temp gun in my T10s and my room is kept around 78-80F. I too use one of those tables with a sheet of 1/2" plywood between the table and the cages. Tomorrow though my AP stand should be here. Oh and also be sure to temp gun the whole area. Heat tape is known to not be 100% across the board so you will have some spots a little warmer and some a little cooler. You want to just even it out with the t-stat. Plus the snake will also find his/her favorite spot and usually push all the substrate aside and make nice spot there.
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...67fe18e5_c.jpg

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Originally Posted by LittleTreeGuy

That sounds about right. I had a similar setup and I decided to get rid of the heat tape and invested in an RHP. Personally, I think for the pvc cages, RHP is the way to go. If I had it to do over again, I wouldn't even bother purchasing the heat tape. The heat tape just isn't very efficient in the amount of heat it needs to put out in order to get the enclosure where you want it. The RHP on the other hand, is very efficient, in that it puts the heat right where you need it.

My suggestion would be to ditch the heat tape, and get and RHP (regulated with a thermostat, of course) :)

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I'm opposite. I prefer heat tapes. RHPs work awesome in cold rooms but if you keep your room warm like I do, you never get a hot spot as the RHP is never on much. With heat tape, it keeps that 90F hot spot while also still providing a nice 78-80F cool side. Plus there is no wiring or anything inside the cage. Much cleaner look. I do use a RHP in my Constrictors NW cage and if I was planning on keeping with that cage, I would switch to heat tape but I'm switching my boas and retic to T25s and then giving my JCP, Dumerils and BP the T10s.

Heat panels are great. You will get a hot spot and they mimic the sun and will heat the floor and objects in the cage.

There are many different ways to set up a cage and if you feel a heat panel is the answer for you, then go that route. If set it up properly, they are clean inside the cage and don't detract at all. Industrial staples around the cord on the ceiling will keep it flush and there won't be any dangling cords.

I use heat panels exclusively and will continue to do so no matter what brand of plastic cage I buy next.

Depending on your living situation heating an entire room may not be possible. Living with others that don't want a house/room in the high 70's or more may be an issue.

You can also combine a RHP with heat tape or a UTH if needed.

Cages with heat panels below,,,

I know they look like crap right??

http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/y...tput_3115.jpeg


JK,

You can see the panel on the left side of the top cage and IMO doesn't take away anything from the appearance.

You have options, and overall ambient temp is important. A hot spot is fine, but if the rest of your cage is too cool your snake will hug that warm spot and depending on what the other areas of the cage spec out at for temps you may have issues. Bcr and Sauzo mentioned an IR temp gun and I agree you should get one and check all areas of the cage. If you can heat the room so the ambient cage temp is good, then stick with the tape and you'll be OK.

Like I said there are a lot of ways to do it and and there are plenty of folks who have successes with different setups from other people's yet they have the same end result.


Do what works for you and good luck.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gio

Heat panels are great. You will get a hot spot and they mimic the sun and will heat the floor and objects in the cage.

There are many different ways to set up a cage and if you feel a heat panel is the answer for you, then go that route. If set it up properly, they are clean inside the cage and don't detract at all. Industrial staples around the cord on the ceiling will keep it flush and there won't be any dangling cords.

I use heat panels exclusively and will continue to do so no matter what brand of plastic cage I buy next.

Depending on your living situation heating an entire room may not be possible. Living with others that don't want a house/room in the high 70's or more may be an issue.

You can also combine a RHP with heat tape or a UTH if needed.

Cages with heat panels below,,,

I know they look like crap right??

http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/y...tput_3115.jpeg


JK,

You can see the panel on the left side of the top cage and IMO doesn't take away anything from the appearance.

You have options, and overall ambient temp is important. A hot spot is fine, but if the rest of your cage is too cool your snake will hug that warm spot and depending on what the other areas of the cage spec out at for temps you may have issues. Bcr and Sauzo mentioned an IR temp gun and I agree you should get one and check all areas of the cage. If you can heat the room so the ambient cage temp is good, then stick with the tape and you'll be OK.

Like I said there are a lot of ways to do it and and there are plenty of folks who have successes with different setups from other people's yet they have the same end result.


Do what works for you and good luck.

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Awesome pic, Gio. Your snakes must be happy to be in the cage since it looks like there's an alien invasion going on outside :D


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I personally would just use the plastic coated cable clamps like http://www.homedepot.com/p/1-4-in-Pl...5UVB/202878268 over staples. And while it's true, a RHP will create a hot spot if you put something under it to heat up, it won't create that hot spot if the ambient room temp is close to the set cool side temp. That is why I said, if you are in a room that is under 75F, then a RHP will work great as it will be on a decent amount of time. But if you have a room that is 78+, the RHP wont be one much. I have my Herpstat set to 80F on the cool side with my RHP in a Constrictors NW cage and it almost never comes on. In my AP T10s I have only flexwatt set up and it keeps a nice 90F hot spot on one side and 78-80F on the cool side

As for looks, I guess it personal preference. For a white cage like my Constrictor NW one, the RHP blends in but for my black AP T10s, I just don't like the look of a big white square thing bolted to the roof of the cage. Plus if you go for Ap installed LEDs and shelf, it can take a bit of fiddling to get the RHP place right unless you are going for a T25 or anything that is 30"+ deep.

Also it will depend on the cage design. Gio's cages which are Constrictor NW ones have a much taller header on them so they "cover" the top of the cage more. AP cages use a center brace with a much shorter top header so you can see the top of the cage much easier. And word of advice, don't buy a cage with no bracing on the roof lol. My freakin Constrictor NW cage sags a lot. Guess its not as bad as Figments as his sags so bad he has to lift the top to close the door. With all said...want to buy a white Constrictors NW cage with a Pro Products PH65 RHP in it once I get my AP T25s? :D

But like Gio said, it really boils down to what works for you as its different for each person and each person has different tastes.

Yup that's normal and unless you want a burned snake you should never have heat tape or pads set up for the surface of the bedding to reach 90F. It could easily get 100+ under the bedding doing that. If the snake needs more warmth it can and will bury itself or push the bedding aside. If the snake is on paper towels, the will transfer just fine through the paper towels when the snake lays over the pad/tape.

Definitely agree with the RHP sentiment. They're specifically designed to provide belly heat but secondarily raise ambients which heat tape/pads cannot do.

When setting up my heat panels all I did was drill a hole right next to where the wire was and threaded it through before attaching the plug. In the case of the T12's the hole was already there for the lights I ordered. I could not get the lights to stay though so just put the panels there. AP also cut channels for the wire so no danger of getting the wired squished. My wooden enclosures aren't sitting flush on top of each other so no pinching there either.


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Ugh...I was already starting to think I might be better off using an RHP along with the flexwatt - but the last thing I want to do after having plunked down for a T8, (and a herpstat, and a etc.) is shell out more for the panel plus another good thermostat, since I only have the Herpstat 1. What would be your reasons, if any, for not trying to control a 40 watt RHP with a rheostat? I figure 1) the snake isn't going to be lying on or against it, shouldn't come in contact with it much; 2) I can still keep the RHP from heating up too high with the rheostat, and; 3) with the heat tape already working I can keep the RHP even lower, just a little "nudge" to the hot spot and ambient. What problems am I not considering, in my inexperience?

You can use a RHP with lamp dimmer if you want. Just make the sure the lamp dimmer is rated for the wattage of the RHP. Think of it as a cage safe CHE. Just remember, you do want to provide a cool side for the snake as well.

Now like I said, it really depends on your room temp. That is going to determine your ambient cage temp. Generally you don't need both unless you live somewhere really cold where the room is sitting around 60F. Having a 90F hot spot with flexwatt and then setting the RHP to 80F cool side is kind of overkill.

And if you are running a lamp dimmer with that RHP, remember it will not cool down if it gets too hot.

It's up to you but I think you are trying to use flexwatt not how its really designed. You don't take the temp from the substrate. You want the cage floor to be 90F. it wont heat the air, it wont heat the substrate really. All it does is provide a warm spot on the cage floor for the snake to curl up on and stay warm, warm up or digest food.

A RHP is designed to heat up objects under it which will heat the air. Now the cool side(where the t-stat probe is set) needs to be cooler than the room temp or the RHP isn't going to come on much which wont provide a hot spot. With that said, you don't need a hot spot for a snake. I raised my big BCI girl from 18" to 6.5-7' on a RHP. It just kept the ambient warm and a so-so hot spot on her warm hide when it came on.

Also remember, a RHP needs 6" air gap or you risk it possible overheating. I talked to Ali at AP and RBI about this. T8 inside height is 10.75". RHP is 1", substrate 2", RBI large hide is like 4". Combine that and you have about a 4" air gap. RBI told me not to place the hide under the RHP and to place it off to the side. Now there are lots of people who use RHPs with 12" cages but for me, I don't chance it on anything under 14". And running it on a lamp dimmer where it will be on 24/7 could become a problem.

Bottom line is you don't need both unless you are in a really cold house. Just order a Pro Products RHP, mount it and hook it up to your Herpstat 1. See how you like it. if you don't, hook the flexwatt back up and live and learn lol. Like I said, I've used both and I personally prefer flexwatt but again everyone has ways that work for them which might not work for others.

I was actually going to put the RHP over the space where the heat tape is, to make the hot spot solidly warm both on floor and in the air, and I figured it would also help get the ambient in the rest of the cage at a healthy place instead of wavering from good to slightly too low, depending on what humidity and ambient room temp are doing to tweak it. I get what you're saying Sauzo about overkill on having the cool side too warm, but the snake so far is pretty consistently staying in the warmest zone of the cage - that suggests to me that he needs to stay there to feel comfortable, or possibly sometimes can't get warm enough? Good reminder about the cage height and hide, it would have to be very low-clearance hide if he was going to have one right in the hot spot. I'm starting to experiment with making them myself though so I can work around that.

Thanks everyone for your input so far.