I'm Wondering if Someone Can Shed Some Light For Me...

My friend, who I trust completely, got me a 2-month old ball python. He has three different morphs, with also a kink in his tail that actually is a little Cinnabon at the end of his tail. Luckily it clears the cloaca. He is eating great, pooping great, and shed when my friend had him.

My question is with his genetics. This is the paper I got with him: "Normal 13 (or B) and calico, pastel, fire AN male." Does this mean that he is het for calico, pastel, AND fire? I was at a show in Orlando and showed another breeder his picture, and he said that Earnie looks like a calico. Any help would be appreciated. In the long run, it doesn't matter. He is just a pet. But I'm curious as to how this works.

Link for his picture: https://scontent.ftpa1-2.fna.fbcdn.n...30&oe=58F0CCC7
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I'm new to this but, I think Het only refers to recessive genes... like Pied, Ghost, Albino, etc... I would think that he's a Calico Pastel, Fire. The other info may have just been used as identifiers for the breeder. If not I'm positive someone smarter than me will chime in shortly. ;)


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He's a calico, no pastel or fire in him. I think the label may refer to the parents and their ID's... Normal female 13 to pastel fire calico male. Don't know what AN means but may be part of an ID. That would be my guess at least.

Those aren't het genes. I'm new but can see the calico maybe, but beyond that

And Ball2Drop is right, being referred to as a het is almost only used when in reference to recessive traits, like albino, pied, ghost etc. An animal that is a het is heterozygous for a trait, meaning the animal carries the gene for the trait but doesn't express it. For an animal to express the trait they would need two copies of the gene, making them a homozygote.

With codominant genes like fire, pastel and calico, only one copy of the gene is needed to express the trait.

Thank you, everyone!

Got a picture of the paper that came with him? I have a feeling something is being lost in translation and maybe we can help clear that up too. :gj:

Sure, here's a picture of the paper that came with him. Thanks again!

https://gm1.ggpht.com/gJj9tklMtxqFZZ...66-h638-l75-ft

Picture doesnt seem to work.

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Originally Posted by Carrie Beth

Sure, here's a picture of the paper that came with him. Thanks again!

https://gm1.ggpht.com/gJj9tklMtxqFZZ...66-h638-l75-ft

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That link doesn't appear to be working (from both my phone and the computer at work). I'll try again once I'm home. Do you have another place you could host the document? If not, feel free to email it to me and I can share with the forum: eric@ebballpythons.com.

Odd...it works for me. I will email you Eric, and try to figure out how to post the picture.

Is there some way I can upload a photo without using a URL? If not, any suggestions? I did the same thing I did yesterday (uploaded it to a site I have and then clicked on it to get an address) to post the picture of my ball python.

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Originally Posted by Carrie Beth

Is there some way I can upload a photo without using a URL? If not, any suggestions? I did the same thing I did yesterday (uploaded it to a site I have and then clicked on it to get an address) to post the picture of my ball python.

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Just install the free TapaTalk forum app - it has a built in one button photo uploading system !

How about for laptops? I prefer visiting forums on my computer rather than my phone. :oops:

Here is the picture of the paper that came with the OP's animal:
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...%2FZyZRIYy.jpg
It's a record of the pairing that produced this hatchling: Normal 13 x Calico Pastel Fire Pin(stripe)

Side note: imgur is my photo hosting site of choice lately. Once uploaded, the "Direct Link" is the URL you want to use to be able to upload pictures here. :gj:

Yea!!! It says "Pin" not AN! That was really throwing me for a loop! I've been racking my brain trying to think of what AN could have meant. Phew! In the OP's defense I definitely see "AN male" as well.


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Originally Posted by Ball2Drop

Yea!!! It says "Pin" not AN! That was really throwing me for a loop! I've been racking my brain trying to think of what AN could have meant. Phew! In the OP's defense I definitely see "AN male" as well.


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I see it now! :) Everyone else I showed it to said the same thing. LOL Does Pin have any significance??

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Originally Posted by Carrie Beth

I see it now! :) Everyone else I showed it to said the same thing. LOL Does Pin have any significance??

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The "A" in Normal, Calico, and Pastel are definitely different than the perceived "A" of Pin. I knew all of the time spent watching crime dramas would pay off. ;)

As I said above, Pin is short for Pinstripe. The sire to the clutch was a four-gene animal: Calico, Pastel, Fire, Pinstripe (a "Calico Dragonfly"). :)

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Originally Posted by Eric Alan

...As I said above, Pin is short for Pinstripe. The sire to the clutch was a four-gene animal: Calico, Pastel, Fire, Pinstripe (a "Calico Dragonfly"). :)

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all of which are either dominate or co-dominate. So OP, the snake is not a het for anything.

Sorry Eric, I didn't notice your comment lurking underneath the picture. Thanks for helping me out. I was generally good at science except when it came to genetics! And no matter how hard I try, I can never understand snake genetics either. I really appreciate everyone's help!

Homozygous and heterozygous refer to gene pairs.

Homozygous = the two genes in a gene pair are the same.
Heterozygous (het) = the two genes in a gene pair are NOT the same.

Heterozygous and homozygous are most commonly used with recessive mutant genes. They can be used with codominant mutant genes and should be used with dominant mutant genes.

Het albino means that the animal has a gene pair made up of a normal gene and an albino gene. As the albino gene is recessive to the normal gene, the animal looks normal. Het albino and normal (AKA homozygous normal) distinguish two animals that look alike.

Het lesser means that the animal has a gene pair made up of a normal gene and a lesser gene. As lesser is codominant to the normal gene, the animal does not look normal. Super lesser = homozygous lesser and means that the animal has a gene pair made up of two lesser genes. As lesser is codominant to the normal gene, the super lesser ball python does not look normal and does not look like a lesser ball python.

Pinstripe means a ball python with the pinstripe appearance and at least one pinstripe gene. Het pinstripe means that the animal has a gene pair made up of a normal gene and a pinstripe gene. As pinstripe is dominant to the normal gene, the animal does not look normal. Super pinstripe = homozygous pinstripe and means that the animal has a gene pair made up of two pinstripe genes and does not look normal. A pinstripe and a super pinstripe ball python look alike, so het pinstripe and homozygous pinstripe distinguish the two. Using super pinstripe tends to make people think a homozygous pinstripe looks different from a het pinstripe.

Thanks for explaining that. I'm going to save it so I can look back when I get confused!!

I think you are lucky to have a handsome little man with a cool little curl on his tail. As long as he's healthy, I wouldn't worry. He's like one of those cute dogs with their tongue hanging out!

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Originally Posted by Merriah

I think you are lucky to have a handsome little man with a cool little curl on his tail. As long as he's healthy, I wouldn't worry. He's like one of those cute dogs with their tongue hanging out!

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Oh, I know how lucky I am!! I've had him almost two weeks and I still do a little "SQUEE" every time I see him and his little Cinnabon. I got him at last month's herp society meeting and all the women were looking at him and doing the same thing. I even have friends that don't like snakes that think he is cute. And I feel in love the first time I saw him...him, not so much. He musked me. :D

The friend who found him kept him for two weeks. He does a lot of breeding of reptiles in general, is a biologist, and had worked as one of the curators of the Reptile House at Bronx Zoo. And if anything was wrong, he would've known. The Cinnabon clears his cloaca, and he poops just fine. My friend said that he offered several pinkies and he killed them all before eating one. He also had a great shed while there. He's eaten great for me, only turning up his nose at prekilled/thawed pinkies, and I've seen him drinking and exploring too. I will switch him over to that eventually, but right now I just want him to eat. And he is a feisty little one. Besides musking, he seems to enjoy random air biting. I've just started holding him for 10 minutes at a time.

The only precaution I'm taking is putting mineral oil on his Cinnabon to help when he sheds.

Do not put oil on the tail, the scales will all fall off! The tail may end up being more of a problem than you may think. He will not be able to shed in that area correctly and it may eventually cause strangulation of the tail that is curled. No oil, and watch for sores or discoloration. Try to get as much shed from between the crevices as you can using warm water after he sheds the rest of the body. As he grows, the coils may become tighter and more of an issue, or maybe not. You will just have to wait and see.

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Originally Posted by Kibbleswhites

Do not put oil on the tail, the scales will all fall off! The tail may end up being more of a problem than you may think. He will not be able to shed in that area correctly and it may eventually cause strangulation of the tail that is curled. No oil, and watch for sores or discoloration. Try to get as much shed from between the crevices as you can using warm water after he sheds the rest of the body. As he grows, the coils may become tighter and more of an issue, or maybe not. You will just have to wait and see.

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I'm going to avoid that at all costs. He has already had a healthy shed with no shed remaining on his tail and I'm taking him out every day except when he eats, and I'm watching him like a hawk! Thanks for telling me about the mineral oil. :)

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Originally Posted by paulh

Homozygous and heterozygous refer to gene pairs.

Homozygous = the two genes in a gene pair are the same.
Heterozygous (het) = the two genes in a gene pair are NOT the same.

Heterozygous and homozygous are most commonly used with recessive mutant genes. They can be used with codominant mutant genes and should be used with dominant mutant genes.

Het albino means that the animal has a gene pair made up of a normal gene and an albino gene. As the albino gene is recessive to the normal gene, the animal looks normal. Het albino and normal (AKA homozygous normal) distinguish two animals that look alike.

Het lesser means that the animal has a gene pair made up of a normal gene and a lesser gene. As lesser is codominant to the normal gene, the animal does not look normal. Super lesser = homozygous lesser and means that the animal has a gene pair made up of two lesser genes. As lesser is codominant to the normal gene, the super lesser ball python does not look normal and does not look like a lesser ball python.

Pinstripe means a ball python with the pinstripe appearance and at least one pinstripe gene. Het pinstripe means that the animal has a gene pair made up of a normal gene and a pinstripe gene. As pinstripe is dominant to the normal gene, the animal does not look normal. Super pinstripe = homozygous pinstripe and means that the animal has a gene pair made up of two pinstripe genes and does not look normal. A pinstripe and a super pinstripe ball python look alike, so het pinstripe and homozygous pinstripe distinguish the two. Using super pinstripe tends to make people think a homozygous pinstripe looks different from a het pinstripe.

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So you CAN refer to dominant and co-dominant genes at het? (They will obviously look like the het gene however, i.e. Het Pastel we would normally refer to as just Pastel?). So het can be used with any combo not just recessive? Thanks.


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Originally Posted by Ball2Drop

So you CAN refer to dominant and co-dominant genes at het? (They will obviously look like the het gene however, i.e. Het Pastel we would normally refer to as just Pastel?). So het can be used with any combo not just recessive? Thanks.

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You'd be technically correct, but not "hobby correct". If you use the term Het outside of recessives, people will look at you like you have a third leg.

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Originally Posted by Ball2Drop

So you CAN refer to dominant and co-dominant genes at het? (They will obviously look like the het gene however, i.e. Het Pastel we would normally refer to as just Pastel?). So het can be used with any combo not just recessive? Thanks.


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100% correct.

Remember that we are referring to a comparison between two genes. Take the albino mutant gene and the corresponding normal gene. Saying that albino is a recessive mutant gene automatically means that the normal gene is also dominant to the albino mutant gene.

I've had people react as if I had a third leg when I write about a "het hypo" boa constrictor. Hypo is a dominant gene in boa constrictors. Goes to show how ignorant about genetics many people are in the hobby. So I usually dumb it down to "my snake has a hypo gene paired with a normal gene." It takes a little longer to write, but there is less room for misunderstanding.

For codominant mutant genes, what the animal looks like indicates the genes present. But if someone doesn't know that pastel is codominant to its corresponding normal gene, then "het pastel" indicates what the genes are.

If you want to get really complicated, try some cases of multiple alleles in mice or fruit flies. You can have one gene be dominant to a second gene, codominant to a third, and recessive to a fourth. The a locus in mice is like that, only more complicated because there are more mutant genes there.