people irk me

Three times now I have seen BPs on craigslist with nothing but a water dish and climbing branches. No hides, no UTH, no temp gauges, nothing.
Whyyyy. Is is that hard to read about them?

It's real bad in my neck of the woods as well.

Just a few weeks ago one poster was selling a Boa in a cramped wire cage! And it appeared to be outdoors. :mad:

On another note:
Fortunately, someone took some time to post some guidelines with some pictures for a few days. :) While I didn't exactly agree on everything, I wasn't going to criticize since the ad was pushing in the right direction.

Unfortunately, working at an animal shelter has taught me that a lot of people are unable or unwilling to put the effort into caring for their animals properly. Whether it's a snake, a rabbit, a bird, or a cat or dog-- the condition that we sometimes receive peoples' owned pets in here at the shelter can be appalling. A lot of people get exotic or "dangerous" pets for the COOL or WOW factor without doing appropriate research into what the animal needs to live (much less thrive), or thinking at all about the fact that they are taking responsibility for the life of an animal and not just buying a cool accessory.

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Originally Posted by Reinz

It's real bad in my neck of the woods as well.

Just a few weeks ago one poster was selling a Boa in a cramped wire cage! And it appeared to be outdoors. :mad:

On another note:
Fortunately, someone took some time to post some guidelines with some pictures for a few days. :) While I didn't exactly agree on everything, I wasn't going to criticize since the ad was pushing in the right direction.

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They really had a boa in a wire cage possibly outside? :( poor thing. Just makes me want to save them all. hah

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Originally Posted by Nellasaur

Unfortunately, working at an animal shelter has taught me that a lot of people are unable or unwilling to put the effort into caring for their animals properly. Whether it's a snake, a rabbit, a bird, or a cat or dog-- the condition that we sometimes receive peoples' owned pets in here at the shelter can be appalling. A lot of people get exotic or "dangerous" pets for the COOL or WOW factor without doing appropriate research into what the animal needs to live (much less thrive), or thinking at all about the fact that they are taking responsibility for the life of an animal and not just buying a cool accessory.

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I would never be able to work at a shelter. I would take them all home.

But really, it seems worse with exotic animals. like they just think they can throw this animal or bird in a cage and call it good. It's really sad.

Yeah, I've given up on explaining why I keep my Ball Pythons in tubs/Rack. Well, I'm going to make one display cage, but it will have husbandry and needs SPOT ON.

As soon as I try to explain they look at me as if I'm an animal abuser, they then go on telling me how their (or their friends, cousins, uncles, etc) Ball Python LOVED their big glass tank or mesh enclosure, how he was SO social, climbing around and moving around all day long. How he loved to cuddle and only bit people he didn't like. Etc etc etc.

How do you explain to people that are used to dogs and cats and "social" animals that a BP is HAPPIER in a small, dark, cramped space ? And that a Ball Python that moves around nonstop is NOT social nor happy ?

Its just lack of education. I just wish that once they committed to any "pet" to any living animal, they would do their research to provide the best home they can.

in a perfect world.. ;)

I think that is why I would have a hard time selling my hatchlings. All this work, excitement and waiting. And then...probably a big percentage of them is not going to make it past 2 years old. Or not in a good way, anyway. Even morphs are so cheap nowadays that people buy them and neglect them because they are to lazy to put time in research and proper husbandry. Rather sad..

Work in veterinary medicine. Unfortunately pets come with people.

Luckily, I haven't seen any sketchy ads for mistreated snakes *fingers crossed* but, I do frequent a reptile rescue and the condition of some of the animals is downright depressing. Really makes me thankful for them and the work they do with their animals. I'm doing my part and raising my boys to care for their animals. My son has a bp and a uromastyx. He's 3.5 and he feeds the uro, helps spot clean both enclosures, helps when we deep clean and is fully involved in the keeping and care of both. My 1.5 yr watches everything we do with both and when he's old enough, we'll put him to work too!

You know, it happens. All you can really do is take excellent care of your own animals and educate those willing to learn. Otherwise being angry is wasted energy. Some things will never change sadly.

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Originally Posted by Kaylaaa

I would never be able to work at a shelter. I would take them all home.

But really, it seems worse with exotic animals. like they just think they can throw this animal or bird in a cage and call it good. It's really sad.

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We can thank the general rampant misinformation and ignorance about the care requirements for exotics for that. Exotic pet care in captivity has improved tremendously and keeps improving every day, but for a lot of people they're just ignorant about it-- or don't care. It's INCREDIBLY sad.

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Originally Posted by Kaylaaa

They really had a boa in a wire cage possibly outside? :( poor thing. Just makes me want to save them all. hah

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Yes
Also, the Boa was a Wild Type/Common which they wanted $200 for! Proud of the snake 🐍, but not enough to care for it properly. Fortunately for me it was about 100 miles away which discouraged me even more from buying it.

Snakes in general are one of those pets that people jump into with both feet and then lose interest. Once they figure out there is more to it than tossing out some food, water and a litter box they lose interest. In addition to that they perceive ball pythons as one of the cool snakes you can take out at parties and pass around and be an all purpose companion snake. They end up with animals scared out of their wits that wont eat and they get tired of it and neglect them. You can see it in so many of the "Alright I got a new BP now what do I do with it" first posts. Once they start reading the responses about UTH and thermostats and care sheets and all that expensive stuff you see the excitement just dwindle. It's a shame that reptiles are considered to be disposable animals by so many people.

My stomach is in a complete knot. I live near Buffalo NY and a person in Wilson NY (about 25 minutes away) just got nailed by the Niagara County SPCA... among other animals, over 200 snakes in totes, approximately 50% dead. I'm trying to figure out my space and if I can take in any of them. I've already got 5 rescues from a boy in NJ that I'm currently working on. There was a lady in Amherst NY (10 minutes from me) with a bunch of arachnids and snakes a few months ago... I took a corn snake that my niece is lovingly caring for now and friends took a couple of the balls. What possesses people to do these cruel things? And I truly believe the shelters destroy most of them because they don't get adopted quickly like puppies and kittens... Damn! I'm really upset. I'm totally hating someone right now. :tears:

Sorry for venting. I'm just really upset. This makes my heart ache.

It's not just snakes. I'm on an axolotl forum and the amount of people who just buy them, don't cycle the tank, toss them in with gravel and then ask, "why is it dying???" makes me want to reach through the screen and flick their foreheads!

I remember when it was cool to own hedgehogs where I live, it was awful. Almost everyone had one(not including anyone in my family). The shelter was full of them because in a few months the kids got tired of them, it was really sad. And on top of that they were not used to people at all(because the kids neglected them), they would just hiss and curl up into a ball so nobody really wanted to adopt them. Most of them are still there now, but the ones who were friendly enough got adopted put to people who knew proper care for them.

Another thing a lot of people don't realize is buying the snake is the cheap part. You are paying say $1000 one time. Over the course of that one snakes life, you factor in the caging it needs which can run $1000 alone plus food for 30 years which for some snakes adds up fast when you are talking 4lb+ rabbits and gpigs lol and then factoring in vet bills which are freakin expensive, you are talking thousands of dollars. And that isn't even factoring in all the cage accessories plus substrate and stuff. This mostly applies to large constrictors though. Luckily BPs are fairly small and don't require huge amounts of food or huge caging but the vet bills still are just as expensive lol.

And snakes are the bandwagon pet. Everyone thinks its so cool to own a retic or boa or burm. Then when the thing gets big, they try and pawn it off and most places don't want a 14' snake. It's why I had to think long and hard before I committed to Caesar but he is an awesome snake although he is eating me outta house lol.

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Originally Posted by DLena

Sorry for venting. I'm just really upset. This makes my heart ache.

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Don't be sorry! That is really sad. I couldn't imagine. I really can't understand either. You are right though about snakes that go to shelters, the last thing people are going to want to adopt is a neglected ball python, not many of us are even that into the healthy ones from breeders. Most people just really can't or don't want to take care of them - and the ones that do are few and far between.

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Originally Posted by PythonBabes

I remember when it was cool to own hedgehogs where I live, it was awful. Almost everyone had one(not including anyone in my family). The shelter was full of them because in a few months the kids got tired of them, it was really sad. And on top of that they were not used to people at all(because the kids neglected them), they would just hiss and curl up into a ball so nobody really wanted to adopt them. Most of them are still there now, but the ones who were friendly enough got adopted put to people who knew proper care for them.

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Gatta love animal 'phases.' Over my dead body is the day my children get pets and don't take care of them. Parents are half the problem, they don't teach their children to properly care for animals and instead teach them that they are disposable.

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

Another thing a lot of people don't realize is buying the snake is the cheap part. You are paying say $1000 one time. Over the course of that one snakes life, you factor in the caging it needs which can run $1000 alone plus food for 30 years which for some snakes adds up fast when you are talking 4lb+ rabbits and gpigs lol and then factoring in vet bills which are freakin expensive, you are talking thousands of dollars. And that isn't even factoring in all the cage accessories plus substrate and stuff. This mostly applies to large constrictors though. Luckily BPs are fairly small and don't require huge amounts of food or huge caging but the vet bills still are just as expensive lol.

And snakes are the bandwagon pet. Everyone thinks its so cool to own a retic or boa or burm. Then when the thing gets big, they try and pawn it off and most places don't want a 14' snake. It's why I had to think long and hard before I committed to Caesar but he is an awesome snake although he is eating me outta house lol.

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You make a good point. I personally know people who have gotten snakes as babies, then as soon as they get bigger (even BPs) they get freaked out and don't want them anymore.

- - - Updated - - -

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Originally Posted by Reinz

Yes
Also, the Boa was a Wild Type/Common which they wanted $200 for! Proud of the snake 🐍, but not enough to care for it properly. Fortunately for me it was about 100 miles away which discouraged me even more from buying it.

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Man, poor thing. Sounds like the owner should be the one in the cage outside haha.

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Originally Posted by cletus

Snakes in general are one of those pets that people jump into with both feet and then lose interest. Once they figure out there is more to it than tossing out some food, water and a litter box they lose interest. In addition to that they perceive ball pythons as one of the cool snakes you can take out at parties and pass around and be an all purpose companion snake. They end up with animals scared out of their wits that wont eat and they get tired of it and neglect them. You can see it in so many of the "Alright I got a new BP now what do I do with it" first posts. Once they start reading the responses about UTH and thermostats and care sheets and all that expensive stuff you see the excitement just dwindle. It's a shame that reptiles are considered to be disposable animals by so many people.

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Cause stupid young kids want to be 'cool.' Be the badass with a five foot snake.
The last part of your post made me laugh though, I have seen so many posts here where people are like 'but I can't afford to get a t-stat, or heat things properly.' Alright well just because the dumbass at petco said get a small cage and one lamp and call it good doesn't mean that's how it is. Now buy the [stuff] or rehome your snake to someone that will, haha.
I have dropped so much money on my BPs perfecting their tanks since I don't have racks, and I dont regret a penny of it. Even though I bought things multiple times trying to get it right. It's trial and error, and if you can't put forth the effort to at least try for your snake babies you shouldn't have them in my opinion.
But I am also a perfectionist and need my tanks right on constantly haha

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Originally Posted by Gruba

Luckily, I haven't seen any sketchy ads for mistreated snakes *fingers crossed* but, I do frequent a reptile rescue and the condition of some of the animals is downright depressing. Really makes me thankful for them and the work they do with their animals. I'm doing my part and raising my boys to care for their animals. My son has a bp and a uromastyx. He's 3.5 and he feeds the uro, helps spot clean both enclosures, helps when we deep clean and is fully involved in the keeping and care of both. My 1.5 yr watches everything we do with both and when he's old enough, we'll put him to work too!

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I just want to say good for you for teaching your son to love his pets and care for them properly. You will raise a fine young man that cares about his animals. The world needs more of that.

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Originally Posted by Kaylaaa

Cause stupid young kids want to be 'cool.' Be the badass with a five foot snake.
The last part of your post made me laugh though, I have seen so many posts here where people are like 'but I can't afford to get a t-stat, or heat things properly.' Alright well just because the dumbass at petco said get a small cage and one lamp and call it good doesn't mean that's how it is. Now buy the [stuff] or rehome your snake to someone that will, haha.
I have dropped so much money on my BPs perfecting their tanks since I don't have racks, and I dont regret a penny of it. Even though I bought things multiple times trying to get it right. It's trial and error, and if you can't put forth the effort to at least try for your snake babies you shouldn't have them in my opinion.
But I am also a perfectionist and need my tanks right on constantly haha

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Yeah. It's one thing to make an initial mistake based on bad information, and another thing not to fix it as soon a you are able to. Very much trial and error for each individual set-up...but, for someone who just bought the animal for the "cool" factor, that part might not seem so interesting.

I'm going thru this now with my birds. Caged indoor birds should really have supplemental full spectum light. Essential psychologically, and for D3 and calcium absorption. However, get to this level of understanding, and there is a whole new level of BAD info. on how to provide that. There is a YouTube channel out there showing how to use aquarium LED lights for your birds. His birds are going to go blind. Both Amazon and Dr.'s Foster and Smith sell repackaged ZooMed reptile lights as "avian" lights. You will have to get into some fairly technical literature to learn why that is TOTALLY wrong, and harmful to your birds. Some of the reviews on Amazon will steer the customer in the correct direction, and point out the correct avian requirements, but ZooMed, and Dr.'s F&S absolutely should know better!

Ticks me off to no end.

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Originally Posted by Kaylaaa

Cause stupid young kids want to be 'cool.' Be the badass with a five foot snake.
The last part of your post made me laugh though, I have seen so many posts here where people are like 'but I can't afford to get a t-stat, or heat things properly.' Alright well just because the dumbass at petco said get a small cage and one lamp and call it good doesn't mean that's how it is. Now buy the [stuff] or rehome your snake to someone that will, haha.
I have dropped so much money on my BPs perfecting their tanks since I don't have racks, and I dont regret a penny of it. Even though I bought things multiple times trying to get it right. It's trial and error, and if you can't put forth the effort to at least try for your snake babies you shouldn't have them in my opinion.
But I am also a perfectionist and need my tanks right on constantly haha

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Yeah. I certainly wasn't trying to call anyone in particular out. I just think people need to research before they get any pet. Makes no difference how much the animal costs. You still have a responsibility to take care of it. I just hate animal abuse in any form. I remember cringing as a kid watching Jake the Snake Roberts throwing those snakes around the ring. Walking out to the ring with a big snake in a bag and just throwing it into the ring before he got in. No telling how many snakes he seriously injured over the years. And it was all on TV. What a role model.

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Originally Posted by distaff

Yeah. It's one thing to make an initial mistake based on bad information, and another thing not to fix it as soon a you are able to. Very much trial and error for each individual set-up...but, for someone who just bought the animal for the "cool" factor, that part might not seem so interesting.

I'm going thru this now with my birds. Caged indoor birds should really have supplemental full spectum light. Essential psychologically, and for D3 and calcium absorption. However, get to this level of understanding, and there is a whole new level of BAD info. on how to provide that. There is a YouTube channel out there showing how to use aquarium LED lights for your birds. His birds are going to go blind. Both Amazon and Dr.'s Foster and Smith sell repackaged ZooMed reptile lights as "avian" lights. You will have to get into some fairly technical literature to learn why that is TOTALLY wrong, and harmful to your birds. Some of the reviews on Amazon will steer the customer in the correct direction, and point out the correct avian requirements, but ZooMed, and Dr.'s F&S absolutely should know better!

Ticks me off to no end.

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Exactly. I mean, I had a good idea of what I was doing when I first got my BPs but there was definietly things I needed to learn and fix as I went along. Making an effort at least is all that really matters to me.

That's crazy about the birds, I never knew that.
I don't see how florescent lights would be good for them though, haha, wonder what that guy was thinking.

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Originally Posted by cletus

Yeah. I certainly wasn't trying to call anyone in particular out. I just think people need to research before they get any pet. Makes no difference how much the animal costs. You still have a responsibility to take care of it. I just hate animal abuse in any form. I remember cringing as a kid watching Jake the Snake Roberts throwing those snakes around the ring. Walking out to the ring with a big snake in a bag and just throwing it into the ring before he got in. No telling how many snakes he seriously injured over the years. And it was all on TV. What a role model.

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I wasn't trying to call out anyone either, I was just saying I have seen it here where people want the snake but then realize they don't have the money for what the snakes needs or don't want to spend the money on it.
I have never heard of that show though, sounds sad. It was supposed to be a kids show? eek

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Originally Posted by Kaylaaa

I have never heard of that show though, sounds sad. It was supposed to be a kids show? eek

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Only if you count professional wrestling as a kid's show (WWF). ;)

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Originally Posted by DLena

My stomach is in a complete knot. I live near Buffalo NY and a person in Wilson NY (about 25 minutes away) just got nailed by the Niagara County SPCA... among other animals, over 200 snakes in totes, approximately 50% dead. I'm trying to figure out my space and if I can take in any of them. I've already got 5 rescues from a boy in NJ that I'm currently working on. There was a lady in Amherst NY (10 minutes from me) with a bunch of arachnids and snakes a few months ago... I took a corn snake that my niece is lovingly caring for now and friends took a couple of the balls. What possesses people to do these cruel things? And I truly believe the shelters destroy most of them because they don't get adopted quickly like puppies and kittens... Damn! I'm really upset. I'm totally hating someone right now. :tears:

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My shelter won't even adopt out herps at all. Their care requirements are too specific and there aren't enough herp-savvy staff on hand to ensure they get proper care here, much less educate the adopters to take care of the animal after it goes home. When we get herps in they're either adopted out to our staff right away, or transferred to our local herp society for rehabilitation and rehoming.

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Originally Posted by Kaylaaa

I just want to say good for you for teaching your son to love his pets and care for them properly. You will raise a fine young man that cares about his animals. The world needs more of that.

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Thank you. He begged for the uro and a snake so he has to take care of them. As much as can for his age anyway. I've come to love Millow, the bp, as much as he does but, it's his snake and will be going with him eventually when he moves out. :( So he needs to learn how to take care of him properly.

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Originally Posted by Eric Alan

Only if you count professional wrestling as a kid's show (WWF). ;)

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lol Have I dated myself??

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Originally Posted by cletus

lol Have I dated myself??

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If you didn't, I just did. :D

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Originally Posted by cletus

lol Have I dated myself??

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Only if it means I not the only one who watched in the days of Hulk Hogan and Stone Cold Steve Austin.

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Originally Posted by distaff

Yeah. It's one thing to make an initial mistake based on bad information, and another thing not to fix it as soon a you are able to. Very much trial and error for each individual set-up...but, for someone who just bought the animal for the "cool" factor, that part might not seem so interesting.

I'm going thru this now with my birds. Caged indoor birds should really have supplemental full spectum light. Essential psychologically, and for D3 and calcium absorption. However, get to this level of understanding, and there is a whole new level of BAD info. on how to provide that. There is a YouTube channel out there showing how to use aquarium LED lights for your birds. His birds are going to go blind. Both Amazon and Dr.'s Foster and Smith sell repackaged ZooMed reptile lights as "avian" lights. You will have to get into some fairly technical literature to learn why that is TOTALLY wrong, and harmful to your birds. Some of the reviews on Amazon will steer the customer in the correct direction, and point out the correct avian requirements, but ZooMed, and Dr.'s F&S absolutely should know better!

Ticks me off to no end.

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I'm not sure about birds and UVB but I would imagine they would benefit greatly from it as they get it naturally by being outside. With that said, diurnal lizards and turtles most definitely need UVB lighting to survive. They need the UVB so their bodies can produce D3 to utilize the calcium. Without it they die. I personally use Zoo Med 10.0 T5 HO fluorescents for my bearded dragon. Those coil UVB bulbs that a lot tried to market were bad as they released UVB on the lower spectrum which caused eye problems.

As for aquarium LEDs, not sure why the heck you would even use those for a bird lol unless you keep your bird in a dark closest.

As for whoever repackaging reptile UVB tubes for birds, it wont hurt assuming you are using them at the right distance. I mean putting a T5 10.0 HO at 6" is not going to be good.

Wait, Dr Foster and Smith arereal vets? Lol I always thought that was just an online equipment site haha.

But yeah, there are tons of incorrect info out there. That's why I check tons of resources before purchasing my animals and see what things I find coming up the same between all of them.