A question about morphs and aging

Besides my quest for a BCC, i've also been looking at various morphs. Nothing high-end, i know i can't get champaign on a beer budget, but that doesn't mean i want to settle for Schlitz (no offense). As you can imagine, my price guided searches have been coming up with a lot of hypo variations (my personal preference is for bright/warm colors, so I'm not really considering anery). SO hears the the thing: although the babies look awesome, i feel like every adult hypo i see is very much brown on brown - now please dont take this the wrong way, i'm just describing my own tastes, not passing judgment on anyone or any snake - and very low contrast, not nearly as appealing as the babies. Is there a particular line of hypo that keeps that contrast? I've seen an ad for on orgasm hypo ("double dose") and a cursory search indicated they hold color, same for a snakes that are pastel and hypo, super hypo, and the confusion goes on. I've also seen jungles which i understand is a color enhancer (though i like the aberrant patterns too, but lots of $$)
Any tips for entry level morphs (hypo or otherwise) that have popping color that endures??
I should note, this is one of the things i like so much about BCC's, that shocking red tail.

Thanks, all!

Well, you can look into stuff mixed with hypo. I mean its kind of hard to really point you to stuff as each person has individual tastes. I personally like whitish snakes which is why I got Vicky, Dottie and Caesar. Now i'm not sure what your price line is but for about $400-600, you can get good looking snake. I'm guessing that price range as you mentioned you want a BCC and that price is probably close for one that doesn't have documented blood line. Something with all the bells and whistles, i'm going to guess are going to be around $800+. I too want a BCC as my next snake but I want a specific one. I want a Peruvian BCC either a Pucallpa or Iquitos one specifically although I might get a suriname is I find one that just rocks me.

My advice is look at FaunaClassified.com and Kingsnake.com and just browse. I do that all the time just to look at stuff. I'm sure you will find a few that grab you, then note what they are and then talk to trusted breeders and see if they are making them or who they would recommend for one. You can also check out FB groups like Boa Constrictor Keepers. Lots of good guys and gals who breed on there to help as well.

Orangasm line.. lol. Oh man. I've got a possible super salmon boa that gets better every shed. Also sunset boas (which are hog island crosses) are gorgeous too.

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Originally Posted by Chloe

Orangasm line.. lol. Oh man. I've got a possible super salmon boa that gets better every shed. Also sunset boas (which are hog island crosses) are gorgeous too.

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First of all, I just reread my post and realized it came out "orgasm"' oops, but I can hardly fault autocorrect for that one I suppose. But why the lols, is it, "oh man, those orangasms are freakin' sweet!" Or is it, "oh man, that's such a marketing gimmick!" ??

Also, is salmon a specific line of hypo, or another word for any hypo, I've read contradictory articles on the matter. Sunsets are super pretty, but I'd like to go for size so I'm hesitant to look at dwarf influenced boas. Re. size, Sauzo, those Peruvians are supposed to be huge! I'd love one but now we're talking serious coin.

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Originally Posted by dkatz4

First of all, I just reread my post and realized it came out "orgasm"' oops, but I can hardly fault autocorrect for that one I suppose. But why the lols, is it, "oh man, those orangasms are freakin' sweet!" Or is it, "oh man, that's such a marketing gimmick!" ??

Also, is salmon a specific line of hypo, or another word for any hypo, I've read contradictory articles on the matter. Sunsets are super pretty, but I'd like to go for size so I'm hesitant to look at dwarf influenced boas. Re. size, Sauzo, those Peruvians are supposed to be huge! I'd love one but now we're talking serious coin.

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It's not a marketing gimmick. It's a gene.

Also salmon is a line of hypo from Rich Ihle. It's the same as say Lipstick sunglow from Tom Burke. If your animal doesn't have lineage to that animal, it isn't a true version of it.

Yeah, Peruvians get nice size but my SD/D retic is putting on the size too lol. Honestly if you see the snakes every day, you don't even really notice. I took Rosey to the vet and everyone ooh'd and ahh'd at her 6.5' size but to me she was still my baby. After you have them for so long, all you see is a baby still lol. And my boas are all really mellow and laid back so the size doesn't really matter lol.

Coral Sunglows or albinos but I guess that depends on what you like really. They can be very pink as adults.

Some lines keep the reds better for the hypos I would ask to see the parents of babies you like that way you have an idea of how they will end up.

Diem Marie has some very nice and ridiculously beautiful boas when it comes to the hypos.

Brian Boas has BCC available right now from beautiful parents.

I thought this this was interesting information on the corals.
http://www.boamorph.com/id32.html

Your best bets would be to look into pastel boas, and as you mentioned jungles are a good contender. Diem Marie like chip07 mentioned has lots of pastel babies that beat the majority of hypos imo. Anything with a strong pastel lineage will only get better with age. Since pastel is a polygenic trait, you can get pastel pretty much anything. Make sure to ask for pictures of the parents, and if they're old enough look for any holdbacks from litters produced by those parents. Holdback offspring are going to be better than their parents, and show the potential of other babies provided the pastel pairings are maintained. Many will also be the same or less colorful than the parents as adults, but the more generations of pastel parentage and the stricter the breeder is about doing pastel-only breedings, the more likely it is the whole litter is going to have great potential. Unfortunately, with these sorts of pairings the outcome is very much a toss of the dice. A baby that starts out dull and completely lacking in contrast could grow into an adult with absolutely stunningly bright colors and crazy contrast, while that one baby born with amazing colors and contrast severely dulls out by adulthood and looks fairly average. It usually takes 2-3 years for them to gain the majority of their colors, and they could easily continue changing colors until 5-6 years. So if you're going in this hoping for great-looking adults, you're looking at a game of chance and a long wait ahead of you.

Just buying from a certain lineage unfortunately is not going to guarantee you an adult that will look the way you're hoping. This waiting game and game of chance is why linebred animals are so much more expensive. It takes an incredible amount of time between generations of breeding, waiting for babies to grow up to see their potential, and strategizing pairings to enhance color further. This is also why, in general, it's hard to find top-quality linebred animals. It takes too much time and patience when you can just throw two animals together and make a morph combo.

Honestly if you are going to buy a BCC, there are only a couple breeders I would deal with. Legacy Reptiles, Cutting Edge Herps, Star Shaffer and McCarthy Boas.

For BCI morphs, Matt Cook, Kristin Clark, Tom Burke, Richard Ceniceros, and already mentioned Diem Marie. There are a few others that I just cant remember off the top of my head but just remember, you are going to pay the price for something nice from these guys.

But like I said, join Boa Constrictor Keeper FB. All those guys I mentioned are on there and you can browse Diem Maries available boas on her FB page in the album section. My advice again though is to browse FaunaClassified and Kingsnake. Then you can find what you want as far as the morph goes and then talk to the people I mentioned. Matt Cook and Kristin Clark do lots of stuff with coral sunglows although i'm not sure if Kristin Clark is still doing it atm as she had a baby not long ago. Richard Ceniceros does lots of stuff with Aztecs I believe and square tails. And Tom Burke I think does a lot with Blood boas although I haven't really looked at his stuff in awhile.

You all, per usual, are the best. :colbert2:

Now i must remind you, with regard to premier breeders, no champagne for old Dave here (that's my name, jesus i feel exposed!). But I've been combing through kingsnake, faunaclasifieds, morphmarket, and even craigslist, and have a short list of tempting snakes - now i'm sure i will acquire none of them since my wife is still not on board with me getting another one, but i am trying to learn the market (and window shopping is fun!). The most important thing is that its a good healthy pet, i just want to get the coolest looking one i can for what little money i can part with. Its also frustrating how an animal's unexpressed genes can drive the price up. I mean, i get it, but as someone with absolutely zero intention to breed i am irked that i have to pay for the snakes unconceived future babies.

Lol yup. Check with Matt Cook. I sent Erebus over there and he got hooked up with 2 nice boas for like $250. His prices are pretty decent and he probably has some just "straight" boas that's aren't dh for "big" and "money" lol. That's the thing about the premier breeders, they are usually shooting for some really high end combo and with that chance comes lots of hets which still command a decent price lol.

Erebus actually got a nice motley with a long stripy tail and pretty clean saddles. Think he also got a hypo female in the deal which seemed pretty clean as well.

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Originally Posted by dkatz4

Also, is salmon a specific line of hypo, or another word for any hypo, I've read contradictory articles on the matter.

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The articles are probably contradictory because salmon is both.

Salmon is the name of Rich Ihle's breeding line of hypo BCIs. (See http://www.salmonboa.com)

Salmon is also the official name of the gene that produces the hypo appearance. The offical name of a gene is the name given it in a referreed scientific journal, such as the Journal of Heredity. (See http://www.salmonboa.com/pdf/JournalHeredity_May00.pdf) Often, the appearance that the gene produces has the same name as the gene. So depending on context, a salmon boa could be a boa from Rich Ihle's salmon breeding line or any hypo boa from any breeding line that has the salmon gene. As far as I know, all of the hypo breeding lines are either derived from the snake that originated Ihle's salmon line or derived from an independently collected snake with the salmon gene.

There are also some hypo lines found in central American locality not related the original salmon gene.
Here's a link to the history of the salmon boas established by Rich
Ihle:http://www.salmonboa.com/about.html
Then there are the "orange tail hypos" established by Jeff Gee which are not directly related to the original salmon founder (as far as we know).
Jeff Ronne, Boaphile, has established what is thought to be a pure Columbian locality hypo, very pretty, I don't know much about them to speculate.
aAll the lines are compatible (I know salmon and O.T are) and lots of the hypos out there are mixes or just can't be traced directly back to where it started from.
Except for any pure Columbian hypo lines, they are all locality mixes of Columbian x Panama boas from my understanding. (the original founding salmon female is thought to be Panama locality per Rich)

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Originally Posted by dkatz4

SO hears the the thing: although the babies look awesome, i feel like every adult hypo i see is very much brown on brown -

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Yes, this is true, all boas develop the yellow pigment as they age (over years). This is why boas 'brown' out. The baby grey colorations they have fade and slowly turn tan/brown.
There is some good advise already given in this thread about breeders and morphs (there are other great breeders out there as well than the ones listed of course).

I'm a personal fan of the Harlequin line boas, similar to 'pastel' they are a line bred trait and tend to be more colorful as adults. I am way overdue for posting some pics of my harlequin line animals.
It's hard to go wrong with a great color/contrast normal/pastel.
Good luck in your search

The more i read and see the more i am leaning toward, as AbsoluteApril said, a normal from a color enhanced line or color enhancing morph. I spent some time looking up pictures of adult hypos and the color scheme just does not appeal to me (now watch, i'm going to end up getting a hypo, this is what i always do). I've seen some well priced jungles out there, though like i said, i love the aberrant saddles, but the jungles who show that trait are always way pricey. I'm also not giving up on BCC's. I may not end up with a pedigree, but for the right price, a few peaks and a nice cherry tail would suit me just fine - remember, no breeding or reselling here, just looking for a pretty pet.