Jampeas - how big do they really get and what are they like?

I've seen people claim that they're the largest of the 'dwarf' species, as they can reach lengths of up to 15ft. But I've also seen pictures of much smaller specimenes, and comments from other people swearing that such a size is exaggerated, and that a male won't get more than 7 or 8ft. So, which is true? And furthermore, what are they like? I'd love a male, but not if it'll get 13ft and be flighty or defensive.

I apologise for posting this question, when I know full well that it (and similar versions) have been posted before, but I've read so much conflicting information and would really appreciate hearing for myself what experienced people - who know what they're talking about - have to say about them.

I have a 50% Jampea 50% mainland, it will be interesting to see how big she gets. She is already getting big, over five pounds now, still about a year old. I'm guessing she will get 12-14 feet and probably at least 70 pounds. She is very sweet, never was defensive at all, but almost got me from a wild feeding response when I opened up her tub one time! I feed her well now, she never really flies out like she used to when she was younger. I'm attached to this snake more than all my others.

Jampea is the largest and is under a grey area as to whether or not it is a dwarf. Some stay small some grow large. They are strictly dependent on food intake amount IMO. I have talked about it a lot in previous threads a lot and it's worth mentioning again. On the island on Jampea it is a bird breeding colony. This is their food for the year and is only in abundance for a few months out of the year. They are adapted to handle less food intake than other retics. When people slam them with food at a young age they get big. They are essentially mainland. But they don't grow as hefty. So still a dwarf in a way.

I have a 2 almost 3 year old 75% Jampea Tiger het anery poss het snow female that has been fed slowly and I mean slowly. Never to the point she was thin. But to the point she was never sitting on heat for days trying to digest. She's only 6-7 ft right now. My 50% f2 Jampea purple albino who I fed to raise as a breeder who turns 5 in march, she's every bit of 14' and 75-100lb.

My male golden child 50% Jampea from a 14' mom pure Jampea, only reached 10' and about as thick as 4" across. The perfect size snake IMO.

The key take home is. With Jampea. There are no guarantees.


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Originally Posted by reptileexperts

Jampea is the largest and is under a grey area as to whether or not it is a dwarf. Some stay small some grow large. They are strictly dependent on food intake amount IMO. I have talked about it a lot in previous threads a lot and it's worth mentioning again. On the island on Jampea it is a bird breeding colony. This is their food for the year and is only in abundance for a few months out of the year. They are adapted to handle less food intake than other retics. When people slam them with food at a young age they get big. They are essentially mainland. But they don't grow as hefty. So still a dwarf in a way.

I have a 2 almost 3 year old 75% Jampea Tiger het anery poss het snow female that has been fed slowly and I mean slowly. Never to the point she was thin. But to the point she was never sitting on heat for days trying to digest. She's only 6-7 ft right now. My 50% f2 Jampea purple albino who I fed to raise as a breeder who turns 5 in march, she's every bit of 14' and 75-100lb.

My male golden child 50% Jampea from a 14' mom pure Jampea, only reached 10' and about as thick as 4" across. The perfect size snake IMO.

The key take home is. With Jampea. There are no guarantees.


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Excellent response Cody. Your biology background shows here.

I've mentioned seasonality when discussing the feeding of boa constrictors. Gus Rentfro and Vincent Russo have always stated boas were not designed to eat year round as they follow a seasonal pattern, often of feast and famine. Your point about migration in this thread echoes the same. While it is true retics are very large or can be, they don't have to be total monsters all of the time. There are obvious variables involved but your advice here is perfect IMO.

Every one of your retics, even your big ones are beautifully lean and healthy looking.

Captivity and human feeding schedules play a big role in total size of these animals.

I'd like to see some video updates when you have time.

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Originally Posted by Gio

Excellent response Cody. Your biology background shows here.

I've mentioned seasonality when discussing the feeding of boa constrictors. Gus Rentfro and Vincent Russo have always stated boas were not designed to eat year round as they follow a seasonal pattern, often of feast and famine. Your point about migration in this thread echoes the same. While it is true retics are very large or can be, they don't have to be total monsters all of the time. There are obvious variables involved but your advice here is perfect IMO.

Every one of your retics, even your big ones are beautifully lean and healthy looking.

Captivity and human feeding schedules play a big role in total size of these animals.

I'd like to see some video updates when you have time.

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time is against me as of late. Lots of home projects. The married life has done many good things, but making videos has been put to the back burner. Now that the new reptile room is nearing completion, it may be easier to pull the retics out and get some updates.

Keep in mind - mainland retics do NOT do good on a maintenance food style schedule. Their body is evolved to metabolize faster and as a result, youll starve your animal. I have seen folks talk about keeping mainland retics small by doing this, and its just not the case. Genetics in dwarf populations were selected due to their ability to survive long periods of famine. The only selection you'll do in captivity with a mainland is the end result of death. Survival of only the fittest.

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Originally Posted by reptileexperts

time is against me as of late. Lots of home projects. The married life has done many good things, but making videos has been put to the back burner. Now that the new reptile room is nearing completion, it may be easier to pull the retics out and get some updates.

Keep in mind - mainland retics do NOT do good on a maintenance food style schedule. Their body is evolved to metabolize faster and as a result, youll starve your animal. I have seen folks talk about keeping mainland retics small by doing this, and its just not the case. Genetics in dwarf populations were selected due to their ability to survive long periods of famine. The only selection you'll do in captivity with a mainland is the end result of death. Survival of only the fittest.

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Good note, I would assume that.

I was more or less stating a great many snakes, including mainland retics are often over fed. Some are clearly too fat and "pushed".

My fella has Dwarf and SD percentages that seem to go along with your male, maintenance schedule for food. I have not seen any signs of hunger between feedings.

I've seen some very attractive, lean and healthy mainlands. I've also seen some grossly over fed animals.

I'll keep an eye out for the videos down the road. From what I understand they are a lot of work to upload. Even still, I feel your 3 on the retic dwarfs probably had more influence on people coming to the species than you get credit for.

Thanks everyone, those are some great answers. Was humouring the idea of a Jampea but now that I know their growth is can go one way or the other, I'm slightly less keen. Still, I'd be interested in keeping one some time in the future, perhaps when I'm more experienced.

Can you actually overfeed a mainland lol? I know my SD boy is a pig. Last night was the 4th day for him and he was out and pacing the front of the cage and staring at me lol. he spent all night out windshield wiping the glass and sitting on the rim of the AP cage looking out lol. I'm really not sure he can go 7 days without food.

Question for Cody here, think I should feed my SD/D male every 4-5 days until he is 1 year old. Then drop him down to once a week? He's just over 6 months old right now.

This is a the boy I got from Kris at Vital Exotics. He's 37.5% SD 31.5% dwarf and the rest being mainland if that matters.

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

Can you actually overfeed a mainland lol? I know my SD boy is a pig. Last night was the 4th day for him and he was out and pacing the front of the cage and staring at me lol. he spent all night out windshield wiping the glass and sitting on the rim of the AP cage looking out lol. I'm really not sure he can go 7 days without food.

Question for Cody here, think I should feed my SD/D male every 4-5 days until he is 1 year old. Then drop him down to once a week? He's just over 6 months old right now.

This is a the boy I got from Kris at Vital Exotics. He's 37.5% SD 31.5% dwarf and the rest being mainland if that matters.

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Yes, it's possible to have a fat retic, even a mainland. Up to a year old I feed weekly, after that every 10-14 days.

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

Can you actually overfeed a mainland lol? I know my SD boy is a pig. Last night was the 4th day for him and he was out and pacing the front of the cage and staring at me lol. he spent all night out windshield wiping the glass and sitting on the rim of the AP cage looking out lol. I'm really not sure he can go 7 days without food.

Question for Cody here, think I should feed my SD/D male every 4-5 days until he is 1 year old. Then drop him down to once a week? He's just over 6 months old right now.

This is a the boy I got from Kris at Vital Exotics. He's 37.5% SD 31.5% dwarf and the rest being mainland if that matters.

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You certainly can overfeed a mainland.

You can overfeed any snake. Even the mainland species with their fast metabolism is a reptile that was designed by nature to survive long periods without food if needed. Captivity VS. nature and evolution effect the animal much differently. Each has pluses and minuses.

Take into account girth as well as length here also.

I won't name names, but there are plenty of FAT, PIG retics for viewing on YouTube and in web pictures that have been done a disservice by their keepers because they are being or have been slammed with food. Some of them are already dead.

Sauzo, I think Kris has a fantastic care sheet on his website. He goes with 4-6 days for hatchlings.

Cody also has some great info in his videos to look at.

Personally, knowing the background of your animal, I would not get overly excited to feed too much unless you want something rather large.

My guy has the same SD percentage as your's, but larger dwarf percentage by 16% or so which isn't a lot.

I'm doing fine with 1 small rat per week.

Of course higher temps will speed things up, mine are not cold by any means but they are toward the lower end of the acceptable spectrum.

Just plan on something larger if you are set on 4 day intervals. I would think at the 6 month mark you could use the longer of the intervals but again, that's up to you.

Maybe your guy will hit a spurt and then slow, who knows. I am taking the advice I was given by Cody and Kris and things seem to be going well.

10' is what I'm expecting on the large side of things.

I saw the most beautiful, adult, mainland, female retic on youtube the other day. Yes, she was big as far as length, but she was so lean and muscular she looked like spring, steel.

I don't like slugs. I like my snakes to look like athletes and since they are not working hard like they would in the wild, I tend to feed them a tad more conservatively, but certainly they are fed.


Bcr229 has my vote here. I like that schedule as well.

Cant overfeed a BP. They self regulate lol. Yeah I read Kris' care sheet and stuff but the 4-5 feeding was for hatchlings. Wasn't sure if hatchling meant 6 month old too but judging by Caesar he seems to want food every 5 days. And he isn't really shy about asking for it lol. When he is hungry and the door slides open he does the peekaboo thing followed by just coming straight out and looking at you lol. And those pictures I posted of last night was him earlier in the I want food demand. later it turned into him doing what Phyllis does and wedging himself between the door and cage followed by windshield wiping the doors lol.

I guess each snake is different and also the growth spurt thing might have him more hungry but if he goes through anymore growth spurt, i'm going to be in trouble lol. He already has gone from about 3' when I got him to now about 4'. He's still skinny as a rail lol.

As for size, I'm fine if he gets 12' I guess. He is really mellow and as long as he stays like that, I should be fine. I mean Rosey, I don't even really notice her size but everyone else does lol. But she is a sweetie. At the vet, she didn't even hiss or even get pissy and that's with all the nurses wanting to see her and hold her and the vet doing her thing and even other patients parents wanting to see her. Only time she got on a mission was when the vet or nurse took her off me. Then she went into "must get back to dad" mode and wouldn't quit trying to get back to me. Once on me, she would let anyone pet her or check her out. The vet and nurses were actually pleasantly surprised how mellow she was.

Anyways, as for temps, he has a hot spot on the flexwatt of 92F and a cool side of 79F. He loves his hot side and usually curls up behind the hide or inside the hide.

Guess we'll see when the one year mark hits lol. If you read an article of "man in seattle eaten by snake", then maybe the 4 day feeding was a bad choice lol :P

Oh and yeah I read Cody's post of SD care. I like his feeding schedule of the 4 days until medium rats, then every 7 days. Then once they were up to rabbits, he dropped males down to every 2 weeks. So far it seems like that will be best for Caesar cause like I said, he is all relaxed and mellow until the 5th day. Then at night, he is all over i'm assuming looking for dinner and also watches any movement like a hawk lol. I love how they turn their head and look at you lol.

Anyways, sorry about hijacking the thread but I want to add one more thing....we need more people to get retics so there is more stuff to read!!! :D

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

Anyways, sorry about hijacking the thread but I want to add one more thing....we need more people to get retics so there is more stuff to read!!! :D

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I think the "hijack" here is good.

Your info and other info will give the O/P and idea of what it's all about.

I also forgot that you were not feeding small rats from the start like I have been.

We'll have to take some weights and measurements sometime soon and compare notes.

Although Wallace seems to be my only snake that honestly is not still enough for the time it takes to measure. I can easily weigh him, but putting the tape to him will be another event.

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Originally Posted by Gio

I think the "hijack" here is good.

Your info and other info will give the O/P and idea of what it's all about.

I also forgot that you were not feeding small rats from the start like I have been.

We'll have to take some weights and measurements sometime soon and compare notes.

Although Wallace seems to be my only snake that honestly is not still enough for the time it takes to measure. I can easily weigh him, but putting the tape to him will be another event.

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True. And yeah, I started Caesar on 2 adult mice every 4 days. Then he went to weaned rats every 4 days and now up to small rats every 4 days, all in the spam of Oct 10th to now lol.

As for measuring, get the Serpwidgets app. It makes it easy.

It seems Caesar and Phyllis are absolutely always hungry! Keep an eye on his smashing of his face in the door gap. I'm fairly certain that's how Phyllis got her jaw abrasions.
Gio, Sauzo, how much do your guys weigh now? Phyllis broke the 1000 gram mark but still is very long and lean. No way I can get a measurement without serp widgets or getting her to crawl along the back of the couch, which she's nearly as long as now. I'm convinced she'll hit 9-10' and she's 100% Kalatoa SD.


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Uhh i'm not sure how much Caesar weighs. I'll have to take a weight after he poops as he just ate his small rat and an adult mouse that Allie didn't want to eat since she is in blue.

And yeah, that head wedging between the door and glass made my worry lol. He quit after a little bit though and started windshield wiping the doors lol. Not sure what he did after that as I went to bed. Today he must have known dinner was coming as I opened the door and he shot his head out of his warm hide lol.

He is lean and long too. He seemed to like to perch on the pvc part of the door opening lol all stretched out with his head on top of it. Its like, "ok if this door slides open, I'm going to be right rdy for dinner!!"

Here he after his mouse snack, waiting for the main course to thaw out.
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...4a32a5_z_d.jpg
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...d4425b_z_d.jpg

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Originally Posted by jmcrook

It seems Caesar and Phyllis are absolutely always hungry! Keep an eye on his smashing of his face in the door gap. I'm fairly certain that's how Phyllis got her jaw abrasions.
Gio, Sauzo, how much do your guys weigh now? Phyllis broke the 1000 gram mark but still is very long and lean. No way I can get a measurement without serp widgets or getting her to crawl along the back of the couch, which she's nearly as long as now. I'm convinced she'll hit 9-10' and she's 100% Kalatoa SD.


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Hi,

I have not done any weight checks on Wallace. I will soon, but at his size it seems insignificant because he's so small.

He is not at all aggressive toward food and frequently hides so I'm happy he's fairly mellow and not overly wild on the food front. I have a nice, easy every 7-8 day interval for feeding and haven't had cage roaming issues at all.

I'd guess he's closing in on 4 feet long, probably 3.5 to three and 3/4's long.

Feeding in an hour or so tonight.

Just wait man!! He will turn into a giant bottomless roaming stomach lol. He might just need more time to feel comfortable.

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

Uhh i'm not sure how much Caesar weighs. I'll have to take a weight after he poops as he just ate his small rat and an adult mouse that Allie didn't want to eat since she is in blue.

And yeah, that head wedging between the door and glass made my worry lol. He quit after a little bit though and started windshield wiping the doors lol. Not sure what he did after that as I went to bed. Today he must have known dinner was coming as I opened the door and he shot his head out of his warm hide lol.

He is lean and long too. He seemed to like to perch on the pvc part of the door opening lol all stretched out with his head on top of it. Its like, "ok if this door slides open, I'm going to be right rdy for dinner!!"

Here he after his mouse snack, waiting for the main course to thaw out.
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...4a32a5_z_d.jpg
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...d4425b_z_d.jpg

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Personally I think this snake is way too thin. That's what my retic looked like when I first got her and I fed her a small to medium rat twice a week until she beefed up. Now she weights in at five pounds and I feed her a large rat once a week. I found that if I fed too small of a food item it really doesn't satisfy, even if I feed several small mice they get really food aggressive and pace the cage. When feeding a larger prey item that gives a nice big noticeable bump in their belly they will sit on the heat for a longer time digesting and will never pace the cage like that. Typically I'll feed a food item big enough to see a pretty big bump in their belly, one that will be noticeable for several days, then once the bump is gone I'll have a few days to handle her before I feed again.

I also found that when they are young like this they metabolize the food much quicker, so the bump is noticeable and then gone and a couple days later they looks super skinny again. I try to feed before they look skinny again. After a few months they will put on enough weight to where they slow down a bit growth wise and can go much longer after a feeding before even starting to look thin. I totally feed based on the body condition of the snake. I have a King snake that I over fed when I first started and realized how fat she was. In the last two months I've only fed two small mice and she is still fat LOL. You can fast your snake for a long time if they are fat, or beef them up quickly if they are thin, especially with retics that have a huge appetite.

It also helps to watch some videos of retics feeding, it's amazing how big of a rodent they can pound down. My five pounder can probably take a jumbo rat.

All you guys with the (relatively) new D and SD influence retics are making this forum the best reading on the internet. Of course with Cody as the editor-in-chief.
:colbert2:

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Originally Posted by cchardwick

Personally I think this snake is way too thin. That's what my retic looked like when I first got her and I fed her a small to medium rat twice a week until she beefed up. Now she weights in at five pounds and I feed her a large rat once a week. I found that if I fed too small of a food item it really doesn't satisfy, even if I feed several small mice they get really food aggressive and pace the cage. When feeding a larger prey item that gives a nice big noticeable bump in their belly they will sit on the heat for a longer time digesting and will never pace the cage like that. Typically I'll feed a food item big enough to see a pretty big bump in their belly, one that will be noticeable for several days, then once the bump is gone I'll have a few days to handle her before I feed again.

I also found that when they are young like this they metabolize the food much quicker, so the bump is noticeable and then gone and a couple days later they looks super skinny again. I try to feed before they look skinny again. After a few months they will put on enough weight to where they slow down a bit growth wise and can go much longer after a feeding before even starting to look thin. I totally feed based on the body condition of the snake. I have a King snake that I over fed when I first started and realized how fat she was. In the last two months I've only fed two small mice and she is still fat LOL. You can fast your snake for a long time if they are fat, or beef them up quickly if they are thin, especially with retics that have a huge appetite.

It also helps to watch some videos of retics feeding, it's amazing how big of a rodent they can pound down. My five pounder can probably take a jumbo rat.

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He eats a small rat every 4-5 days. Males are always thinner. He only paces on the 4th-5th day. Also he is only 3 days over 6 months old so he is still a baby. A small rat leaves a noticeable lump and he is quiet after he eats his rat. He ate 2 large mice when I got him Oct 10th from kris over at Vital Exotics. He was about 3'. Now in a month, hes just about 4'.

I personally don't like to feed my snakes the max size prey they can eat every feeding. If I fed him to where he didn't look skinny, I would be feeding him a small rat every other day lol.

Also you do know male retics aren't a huge bodied snake like boas, dumerils, ball pythons and blood pythons. Males aren't supposed to be big fat blobs lol. Females get thicker. its pretty much the same with boas. Females get the girth while males stay more streamline unless you overfeed them.

Also if your snake actually gets so obese you notice it on the outside, the damage on the inside like the liver has already been done. They don't gain the weight outside in, it's inside out so by the time you see it, the damage is already done. fasting them will help but the damage is already done.

And yeah he looks thin when compared to my sunglow who is about 1' longer but from other retic people I've shared pictures with, they say he looks pretty good. I do feed him every 4-5 days right now and then will go to once a week when he is up to medium rats like Cody's SD guide says.

Like here is a picture of my sunglow BCI who is almost 3 years old and 5' long
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...6a2b23_z_d.jpg
And then a few other angle pictures of Caesar
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...a9b0d9_z_d.jpg
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...026ffb_z_d.jpg

He has good muscle tone and you cant see his spine. And he's shed twice in the month I've had him so I must be doing something right lol.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cchardwick

Personally I think this snake is way too thin. That's what my retic looked like when I first got her and I fed her a small to medium rat twice a week until she beefed up. Now she weights in at five pounds and I feed her a large rat once a week. I found that if I fed too small of a food item it really doesn't satisfy, even if I feed several small mice they get really food aggressive and pace the cage. When feeding a larger prey item that gives a nice big noticeable bump in their belly they will sit on the heat for a longer time digesting and will never pace the cage like that. Typically I'll feed a food item big enough to see a pretty big bump in their belly, one that will be noticeable for several days, then once the bump is gone I'll have a few days to handle her before I feed again.

I also found that when they are young like this they metabolize the food much quicker, so the bump is noticeable and then gone and a couple days later they looks super skinny again. I try to feed before they look skinny again. After a few months they will put on enough weight to where they slow down a bit growth wise and can go much longer after a feeding before even starting to look thin. I totally feed based on the body condition of the snake. I have a King snake that I over fed when I first started and realized how fat she was. In the last two months I've only fed two small mice and she is still fat LOL. You can fast your snake for a long time if they are fat, or beef them up quickly if they are thin, especially with retics that have a huge appetite.

It also helps to watch some videos of retics feeding, it's amazing how big of a rodent they can pound down. My five pounder can probably take a jumbo rat.

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I don't quite agree here.

First off you have a female that is not SD and only 50% Jamp.

Sauzo's snake has percentages of super dwarf and dwarf, is a male and is very young. As a species, even the mainland retics, including females should be lean and agile. It becomes painful to see captive snakes always provided with food. Even with the faster metabolism of a reticulated python, the system still needs a break. There are physical, internal changes that go on during digestion that need to complete a process and return to a normal state before feeding again. Though the retic has been known to forage/hunt, it is still primarily an ambush predator. Their evolution is similar to other boas and pythons. They are equipped to go without food for long periods.

When you add a captive environment to their lifestyle, you add many good things. A constant, healthy climate, shelter and safety from predators and acts of nature. You provide a steady food source and water source. You also take away much the their exercise, their famine periods, which is a normal event for them. Most folks don't provide nearly the variety of prey, or change the size of the prey that a wild snake would have exposure to.

In any event, the healthy but conservative approach is always better IMO. The prey in nature has its own challenges and is far leaner and probably healthier than our fat, farm raised rats and rabbits.

The fact that Sauzo bought a male animal with the SD and dwarf percentages somewhat signals he doesn't want an overly large snake. It's the same reason I purchased my animal a couple of weeks before he bought his. There was a lot of discussion with the breeder and others here about end size and a dietary course of action to keep things pointed in the "manageable" direction.

Reticulated pythons ARE NOT supposed to be of large girth compared to the other large pythons. They may be the fastest growing and have the fastest metabolisms of the pythons, but I'd be very concerned if I saw a young, male SD X dwarf with substantial body mass. Typically the length comes on first and the body fills out later toward adulthood.

In Reptileexperts videos you can see all of his snakes are very lean in the early videos. They become thicker in the later videos but still maintain what I believe to be a more "wild body type".

I'm not trying to dissuade you from feeding as you wish, but I don't think that Sauzo's snake is at all too thin, he is feeding what the breeder recommended if not a little more.

Feeding a snake is a great interaction, probably the most exciting for us as keepers. It is also the easiest part of the hobby to get carried away with.