BP baby is overly active?

We just bought our baby BP 3 days ago. He's been extremely active since we got him. He's in a larger container but has 5+ hides across the whole spectrum of the tank. The cool side is ~65-70 and the hot side is ~85, with a 75 degree average in the middle. I'm aware this is a bit too cool, we're waiting on a 100w bulb to arrive. The humidity is at 60%. We're using both an over tank lamp(60w) with a day and night bulb we swap out, along with an under tank heater set to low just to help get the temperature up a bit. Substrate is just paper towels for now, we're also waiting on some aspen to arrive since humidity hasn't been an issue.

He doesn't seem to be trying to escape, just wandering in circles all around the tank. Sometimes he'll settle down for 2-5+ hours in one spot, but seems to be moving most of the time. He seems to favor the hot side but wanders to the cool side too.

We were told he feeds on weekends, so we offered him a hopper and he happily took it and ate it. I thought he'd settle down after that but he's still exploring.

We have been trying to avoid handling to let him settle in, but if we're spot cleaning the cage often he'll actually initiate handling by exploring onto our arms. Is this to be avoided? He doesn't seem stressed when being handled, not balling up/striking/wrapping tightly, just exploring slowly around us. He seems to adore my partner's very warm hands. We still try not to over handle him and only keep him out for 5 minutes, even if he acts reluctant to go back into the terrarium.

Is this high activity something to be concerned about? I read it can be from stress but he ate very well so I don't think he's immensely stressed. But I'd like some more experienced opinions. This is our first BP, but not our first snake/reptile and I'm a huge worrier for these things.

Also, we're not quite sure how old he is, but we were told a few months at most.

It's possible that it's just as you said, the temps are a bit too low, and he's constantly seeking a more ideal hot spot. Is the UTH plugged into a thermostat?

I think you can post a couple pictures of your setup to get some better feedback!

Thanks for the suggestion. And no unfortunately the heater has no temp gauge. It's actually a human heating pad that does not get overly hot, we check it several times a day to make sure it's not overheating and burning him. If we still need a proper UTH after the 100w bulb arrives I'll buy one with a gauge for sure.

Here's a gallery of some images of his temporary enclosure:

http://imgur.com/a/IYSig

It's a little janky, but we're waiting on some nicer hides and such to arrive. So for now he can deal with cardboard boxes and egg cartons. Lol.

I have a temperature and humidity gauge right in the middle of the tank, a temp gun is also on the way for more accurate temperatures since I know wall monitors are kinda sucky.

Also, does anyone know what morph he might be? Pet store had no clue. He looks like just the typical color balls tend to be, but I figured I'd ask.

You have many issues.

1. REMOVE THE TAPE FROM THE TUB NOW!!!!! Google pics of snake injured by tape and you will see some terrible things. The tape call rip their skin off to the muscle. It is very dangerous to have in their cage.

2. A human heater pad should not be used and you need to get a proper under tank heater.

3. Its not just a gauge that is needed. You need a thermostat. A thermostat(tstat) regulates the amount of power sent to the uth to adjust the heat up or down as needed. You need to invest some money into your tstat as it is the most important thing you will buy for your snake.

I have Herpstats and love them. I have four. http://spyderrobotics.com/

VE from Reptile Basics are also widely suggested. http://www.reptilebasics.com/thermostats

Another company is Helix. http://helixcontrols.com/

4. The makeshift lid screen thing you have working was really not necessary. You can use a lamp stand to hang the heat lamp from and you can heat the tub through the plastic lid without issue. You of course don't want to rest the light on the plastic lid but that is what the lamp stand prevents.

I had to heat a tub just like this when I bought a snake and the ordered cages did not arrive on time. I was able to get a got hotspot and a good ambient temp by just moving the lamp up or down until it was dialed in.

5. You need to get a IR temp gun so you can know the actual temps of the surfaces inside the tub. A fear that ta 100watt bulb will be too much and create a hotspot that is hotter than your snake is going to need. This can be dangerous as well and burn your snake from above.

If you are having problems heating the air in the tub you may need to move the tub to a better place in your home. Many people find placing their tub, rack, or tank is a small closet works well. Being a smaller room with less air flow it is easier to heat the tub. I think the 60 watt bulb should be enough for the tub you have.

When I had a tank in a cold room I had a 100 che on a lamp stand. It was over 16 inches away from the surface of the tank it was over and gave me a 90 hotspot. If I would have laid it on the screen it would have created a dangerous condition inside the tank.

I also think your temps would be slightly higher if the lid wasn't cut and allowing the heated air to exchange with the cooler air outside.

Whatever you do remove the tape first.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KMG

You have many issues.

1. REMOVE THE TAPE FROM THE TUB NOW!!!!! Google pics of snake injured by tape and you will see some terrible things. The tape call rip their skin off to the muscle. It is very dangerous to have in their cage.

2. A human heater pad should not be used and you need to get a proper under tank heater.

3. Its not just a gauge that is needed. You need a thermostat. A thermostat(tstat) regulates the amount of power sent to the uth to adjust the heat up or down as needed. You need to invest some money into your tstat as it is the most important thing you will buy for your snake.

I have Herpstats and love them. I have four. http://spyderrobotics.com/

VE from Reptile Basics are also widely suggested. http://www.reptilebasics.com/thermostats

Another company is Helix. http://helixcontrols.com/

4. The makeshift lid screen thing you have working was really not necessary. You can use a lamp stand to hang the heat lamp from and you can heat the tub through the plastic lid without issue. You of course don't want to rest the light on the plastic lid but that is what the lamp stand prevents.

I had to heat a tub just like this when I bought a snake and the ordered cages did not arrive on time. I was able to get a got hotspot and a good ambient temp by just moving the lamp up or down until it was dialed in.

5. You need to get a IR temp gun so you can know the actual temps of the surfaces inside the tub. A fear that ta 100watt bulb will be too much and create a hotspot that is hotter than your snake is going to need. This can be dangerous as well and burn your snake from above.

If you are having problems heating the air in the tub you may need to move the tub to a better place in your home. Many people find placing their tub, rack, or tank is a small closet works well. Being a smaller room with less air flow it is easier to heat the tub. I think the 60 watt bulb should be enough for the tub you have.

When I had a tank in a cold room I had a 100 che on a lamp stand. It was over 16 inches away from the surface of the tank it was over and gave me a 90 hotspot. If I would have laid it on the screen it would have created a dangerous condition inside the tank.

I also think your temps would be slightly higher if the lid wasn't cut and allowing the heated air to exchange with the cooler air outside.

Whatever you do remove the tape first.

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Yikes, I had no idea about the tape. Removed now, thank you so much. Glad I posted pics before he got snagged by any of it. That was a huge whoops on my part. None of the care sheets or homemade hide guides mentioned the tape danger.


Is the tape along the top bit okay? None of it is inside the tank or accessible to the snake. He cannot touch any of it.


We had to make the crappy little makeshift lid because without that the humidity spiked to 80%+ overnight because of poor air flow, even with about 3 dozen holes cut for air. I'll try covering some of the slots with a towel to hold in the heat better.


Thank you for the link to the herpstats, I'll look into saving enough to order one asap.


About the lack of the lamp stand, I'll find one to use. Currently the lamp rests on a small baking rack, raised 1/2 an inch from the plastic so no risk of burning/melting the plastic.


The lamp we have has a dimmer. Do you think the 100w dimmed would still be too hot? But good to know. I will be very wary when first using the bulb and monitor to make sure it doesn't get too hot. The room he's in is unfortunately rather cold, but still the warmest room in the house. It's an ambient temp of about 65-75 depending on the time of day.


Thanks so much for the response. I really do appreciate the help.

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Originally Posted by sufficio

Is the tape along the top bit okay? None of it is inside the tank or accessible to the snake. He cannot touch any of it.

It looks like it is needed and as long as the snake cant reach it you should be fine.


We had to make the crappy little makeshift lid because without that the humidity spiked to 80%+ overnight because of poor air flow, even with about 3 dozen holes cut for air. I'll try covering some of the slots with a towel to hold in the heat better.

You are gonna be a bit frustrated but all you needed was a fan in the room moving some air to exchange the humidity a bit. In my snake room I run an oscillating fan to keep the air in the room moving to prevent the air inside my cage to become stagnant and hold to much humidity. When adding fan you don't want to point the fan at the cage and usually placing it on the opposite side in a corner works fine to move just enough air to drop the humidity a bit.


Thank you for the link to the herpstats, I'll look into saving enough to order one asap.

Herpstats are great and I have never seen one person with one not like it.


The lamp we have has a dimmer. Do you think the 100w dimmed would still be too hot? But good to know. I will be very wary when first using the bulb and monitor to make sure it doesn't get too hot. The room he's in is unfortunately rather cold, but still the warmest room in the house. It's an ambient temp of about 65-75 depending on the time of day.

A rheostat(dimmer) will work fine. If it were me Id start as low as I can and slowly go up. Adjust the light and then give it an hour to heat fully and rest. Recheck the temps and then adjust again. Do this slow. The 100watt bulb will really put out some heat at full power and may be able to still melt the plastic at the distance the fixture is from the plastic.

You can get rid of the heating pad you are using and get the get the 100watt bulb and dimmer dialed in to provide a good hotspot while giving you the correctly ambient temps. This will probably work best by raising the fixture some to allow the heat to spill over the lid a bit more to better heat the air and not create such a pin pointed hotspot. Using a lamp stand or setting a lamp up in a manner that keeps you from moving it or banging it will make the bulbs last longer too.

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Thanks for so much good info. I really do appreciate it. I will remove the heating pad as soon as the bulb arrives so we can get a good temperature going. Hopefully a lamp stand will help the heat spread across the container better as well to get a better gradient, the cold side is far too cold right now.

Good to know about the fan for the future. This tank is semi-temporary while he grows, so when we get the permanent full size tank in a few years I will keep that in mind if the humidity provides a problem.

Thank you again for the help, I truly do appreciate it =)

No worries.

You can use whatever you want to raise the lamp but if you want a purpose built item I have many of these and like how adjustable they are. $20 at both big box pet stores.

https://www.amazon.com/Zoo-Med-Repti.../dp/B000255OUO


I like to keep my home at 68. Before I had a house with a dedicated heated snake room I had a 40 gallon glass tank. I had a uth, a 100 watt che, and a 60 watt bulb to keep it with the correct numbers. The lamp stands made getting this dialed in much easier and like I said extended the life of my heaters. It also makes your setup safer but keeping you from moving hot heat fixtures around and laying them around on items that could melt or catch fire.

So you don't really have an idea of how hot it is on top of the heat pad right now? That's a dangerous game to be playing, because I know they can get quite warm.

That's a 60w bulb you're using you said.. I'm assuming it's a UVB/basking type bulb? I figure that would be PLENTY to provide a good hotspot especially since it's SO close to the tub itself.. what do you do at nighttime though?

I know you said you're waiting on a temp gun, but you can just go buy one at lowes or Home Depot. I would get one TODAY if I were you because I have a feeling that your temps aren't what you think they are.

And you don't HAVE to spend that much for a thermostat (referring to the herpstat) for the setup you have. One of the jumpstart stats on amazon would be fine. They are very inexpensive, but do a good job.

And also, I understand "clutter" can help with a snakes security, but I'd suggest maybe taking out one or two of those egg cartons or what not. That just seems, too much.

Nevertheless, keep us posted on the snakes behavior/health.

EDIT: Oh, and yes. It's just a normal, wild type BP.

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I removed the heating pad out since it seems too dangerous to leave on, especially overnight when we can't check it hourly. Yes, the bulb is a basking/heating bulb. At night we swap out the daytime white bulb for a 60w red nighttime bulb. Good to know about the temp gun and thermostat- I'll head out today and buy the temp gun. Thanks so much for the suggestions!

And thanks for the link to the lamp stand. I'll order that asap. =)

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Originally Posted by Mangiapane85

So you don't really have an idea of how hot it is on top of the heat pad right now? That's a dangerous game to be playing, because I know they can get quite warm.

That's a 60w bulb you're using you said.. I'm assuming it's a UVB/basking type bulb? I figure that would be PLENTY to provide a good hotspot especially since it's SO close to the tub itself.. what do you do at nighttime though?

I know you said you're waiting on a temp gun, but you can just go buy one at lowes or Home Depot. I would get one TODAY if I were you because I have a feeling that your temps aren't what you think they are.

And you don't HAVE to spend that much for a thermostat (referring to the herpstat) for the setup you have. One of the jumpstart stats on amazon would be fine. They are very inexpensive, but do a good job.

And also, I understand "clutter" can help with a snakes security, but I'd suggest maybe taking out one or two of those egg cartons or what not. That just seems, too much.

Nevertheless, keep us posted on the snakes behavior/health.

EDIT: Oh, and yes. It's just a normal, wild type BP.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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That's a good point about the 'actual' temperatures !!

I had a Royal turn very unnaturally active a while back and when I checked with the temp gun the warm side was over a hundred and the heat gradient was also too high as a result .... an issue with the stat/ probe .

Anyways it was clearly trying to find a cooler place and that's what I always wonder when I see threads like this one .

Luckily mine are all in clear view ( kept in vivs ) and checked many times daily ( I'm kinda obsessive ) and that's how I noticed ..


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In my experience the day bulbs always burn out faster than the red night bulbs. Don't feel like you have to swap the bulbs out for day and night. Your snake does not care about anything that comes from that bulb except the heat. The only time I spent money on day bulbs was when using them for naturalistic cages that were all done up and even planted.

When buying the day and night bulb pack I always ended up with extra red night bulbs. I had the same issue with the blue night bulbs. They look awesome and have a black light effect to them but they burn out faster than the reds. They also didn't give me the same heat output as the red bulbs.

In the end if you are not lighting a done up enclosure Id say save your money and just use the red bulbs.

Good to know about the bulbs, thanks! The pack we bought just came with both but I'll stick to red bulbs from now on.

He seems to have calmed down a LOT overnight. All night he stayed wedged in the same place he was when I took the photo. Since this morning he's been active again but fingers crossed we're headed in the right path. I'm sick as hell today but I'll go track down a store that sells a heat gun.

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Originally Posted by sufficio

Good to know about the bulbs, thanks! The pack we bought just came with both but I'll stick to red bulbs from now on.

He seems to have calmed down a LOT overnight. All night he stayed wedged in the same place he was when I took the photo. Since this morning he's been active again but fingers crossed we're headed in the right path. I'm sick as hell today but I'll go track down a store that sells a heat gun.

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Try eBay ... Theyre about 15 dollars including postage ....dont pay too much for one , those cheap ones work great in my experience .

Small update. Still waiting on my items to come in the mail, but the aspen bedding did come and it seems to help hold the heat in the tank better(don't worry- I'm keeping a close eye on his humidity). I also laid a towel over the top of his cage to keep the heat in, and seem to have struck success! He is finally hiding. I know the tank is still a few degrees too cold, but the fix is coming in the mail. But I'm so happy he's finally hiding instead of constantly exploring. Thanks everyone for the tips! =)

I think the bulb should be sufficient enough? I got a 100w white python ceramic running and heats my 4ft viv perfectly and that set up is alot smaller, as for roaming around normally it's because they are seeking something which from the set up I'd assume might be a better hide? Get a cheap plastic one off ebay or reptile basics go for the small size so it's a 'snug' fit. and maybe use some aspen bedding on the floor.

Apologies didn't realise the responses on other pages :)

I use ambient heat black night bulbs 24/7. On dimmers. They provide the bump of heat that my tanks need to reach that last bit of proper temp (I have the uth a tad lower because I'm paranoid of burns.) and are dim enough not to bother the snakes. Dimmer than the full moon on an African night, and that's where they are from.

It sounds like your snake is pretty new - a certain amount of activity is not unusual for an animal that's just a bit freaked out from being in a new place, regardless of how good or bad your husbandry is.

That said, it's still important to get your temps under control. One option is a ceramic heat emitter, which is a bulb that emits heat but no light. Ball pythons do benefit from having a day/night cycle, but it's not entirely clear that those red lights are actually invisible to them. Ceramic heat emitters last a long time and the normal light level in the room will do the job of telling your snake what time of day it is.

Another suggestion is a radiant heat panel. They're expensive, but they last. The benefit of a RHP is that it spreads the heat over a much wider area, so no part of it ever gets hot enough to damage the plastic of a tub. And because it spreads heat over a wider area, it's good at maintaining an even ambient temperature. It's also a more efficient way to heat the tub because the entire thing is inside the enclosure, and you (and/or your thermostat!!) control the temperature by reducing power to it. If you heat a tub with a lamp that you move closer or farther away, the lamp is on full blast all the time and most of the heat it produces is heating the air outside, not the inside of your tub.

If you have an 80-watt radiant heat panel inside the tub and it only needs to run at 50% power to heat your tub, it's only using 40 watts; or maybe you can heat your whole tub with a 40-watt panel in the first place. That's less than half the energy usage of a 100-watt bulb. Considering that this stuff basically needs to run 24/7, the difference in energy costs really does add up, even if you don't see it all at once. A back-of-the-envelope calculation is that a 100-watt bulb running 24/7 costs somewhere around $130/year. If a RHP cuts the wattage required to heat the tub in half (because less heat is wasted), it pays for itself easily considering that you might be using the same panel for a decade or two.

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Originally Posted by Coluber42

It sounds like your snake is pretty new - a certain amount of activity is not unusual for an animal that's just a bit freaked out from being in a new place, regardless of how good or bad your husbandry is.

That said, it's still important to get your temps under control. One option is a ceramic heat emitter, which is a bulb that emits heat but no light. Ball pythons do benefit from having a day/night cycle, but it's not entirely clear that those red lights are actually invisible to them. Ceramic heat emitters last a long time and the normal light level in the room will do the job of telling your snake what time of day it is.

Another suggestion is a radiant heat panel. They're expensive, but they last. The benefit of a RHP is that it spreads the heat over a much wider area, so no part of it ever gets hot enough to damage the plastic of a tub. And because it spreads heat over a wider area, it's good at maintaining an even ambient temperature. It's also a more efficient way to heat the tub because the entire thing is inside the enclosure, and you (and/or your thermostat!!) control the temperature by reducing power to it. If you heat a tub with a lamp that you move closer or farther away, the lamp is on full blast all the time and most of the heat it produces is heating the air outside, not the inside of your tub.

If you have an 80-watt radiant heat panel inside the tub and it only needs to run at 50% power to heat your tub, it's only using 40 watts; or maybe you can heat your whole tub with a 40-watt panel in the first place. That's less than half the energy usage of a 100-watt bulb. Considering that this stuff basically needs to run 24/7, the difference in energy costs really does add up, even if you don't see it all at once. A back-of-the-envelope calculation is that a 100-watt bulb running 24/7 costs somewhere around $130/year. If a RHP cuts the wattage required to heat the tub in half (because less heat is wasted), it pays for itself easily considering that you might be using the same panel for a decade or two.

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Have you used a RHP in a tub?

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Originally Posted by KMG

Have you used a RHP in a tub?

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I haven't, but I used to know some people who did. I should also say, they used it in a relatively high tub where it sat well over a foot above the floor - it wasn't sitting six inches overhead. They put a piece of plywood on top of the lid and screwed the panel through the lid into the plywood. I don't remember what kind of tub it was, but it was one with a reasonably flat lid.

I have used it myself only in a tank and in PVC. But for what it's worth, those plastic tubs are typically made of low-density polyethylene, which has a melting point well above 200° F. The benefit of a RHP is that it does not get anywhere near that hot. If you're concerned, you can always use another piece of material such as PVC sheet on the inside of the lid as well to space the panel out from the lid itself.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Coluber42

I haven't, but I used to know some people who did. I should also say, they used it in a relatively high tub where it sat well over a foot above the floor - it wasn't sitting six inches overhead. They put a piece of plywood on top of the lid and screwed the panel through the lid into the plywood. I don't remember what kind of tub it was, but it was one with a reasonably flat lid.

I have used it myself only in a tank and in PVC. But for what it's worth, those plastic tubs are typically made of low-density polyethylene, which has a melting point well above 200° F. The benefit of a RHP is that it does not get anywhere near that hot. If you're concerned, you can always use another piece of material such as PVC sheet on the inside of the lid as well to space the panel out from the lid itself.

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Im not concerned with using a RHP in a tub. Its just that I see it as ironic that many times a person that is using a tub instead of a PVC cage is doing so because they are not financially able to buy a nicer cage yet. So a person using a cheap tub but then heating it with higher priced heat equipment strikes me a little funny.

I don't doubt that it can work its just not a suggestion I would make to a person with limited keeping experience on a budget that has not allowed them to buy a nice thermostat yet. If a person can not afford or just does not have a nice tstat at that time I like to give them other options that I see as safer than using improper gear or a cheap tstat. I think a RHP needs a good tstat. A out of control uth is dangerous but a out of control rhp is even more so. Depending on the size of the rhp it is capable of creating a dangerous hotspot as well as unsafe ambient temps. With that it is not a device I would ever pair to an el cheap tstat, not that I suggest using el cheapo tstats.

No, it certainly should not be used without a thermostat. But thermostats are a must regardless (and you can combine a cheap one with a lamp dimmer for better safety), and you have to have some method of heating regardless, and you pay by the watt for anything you plug in; and all of that is true regardless of how much you spend on a cheap tub or an expensive vivarium. When you add up the power bill and the fixtures and the replacement bulbs and so forth, the RHP really isn't so bad.

A heating system that requires twice the wattage to heat the same enclosure still costs more to run, whether it's a cheap enclosure or an expensive one. If anything, I would think that someone who doesn't want to spend the money on a more expensive cage should be more concerned about the efficiency, not less. Not to mention that if they do spring for a different cage down the line, they can keep using the same panel very easily.

Basically, I know a RHP is an expensive single item, but it's one and done instead of buying this bulb and then that bulb and then changing the lamp fixture, let alone maybe raising the heat in the house or running a space heater. And it really does pay for itself pretty quickly if it means a significant reduction in the total wattage required to maintain correct temperatures. You just don't notice the savings because electric bills are not itemized with things like "$10 - cost to heat snake cage this month".

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Originally Posted by Coluber42

No, it certainly should not be used without a thermostat. But thermostats are a must regardless (and you can combine a cheap one with a lamp dimmer for better safety), and you have to have some method of heating regardless, and you pay by the watt for anything you plug in; and all of that is true regardless of how much you spend on a cheap tub or an expensive vivarium. When you add up the power bill and the fixtures and the replacement bulbs and so forth, the RHP really isn't so bad.

A heating system that requires twice the wattage to heat the same enclosure still costs more to run, whether it's a cheap enclosure or an expensive one. If anything, I would think that someone who doesn't want to spend the money on a more expensive cage should be more concerned about the efficiency, not less. Not to mention that if they do spring for a different cage down the line, they can keep using the same panel very easily.

Basically, I know a RHP is an expensive single item, but it's one and done instead of buying this bulb and then that bulb and then changing the lamp fixture, let alone maybe raising the heat in the house or running a space heater. And it really does pay for itself pretty quickly if it means a significant reduction in the total wattage required to maintain correct temperatures. You just don't notice the savings because electric bills are not itemized with things like "$10 - cost to heat snake cage this month".

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We are on the same page here. I agree completely. But not all people think the way you do. Then even some that might think that way are not able to just drop the money for whatever they want.

Plenty if not most people get into this hobby without doing all their homework so they are behind the curve from the start. It takes them some time to correct the issues and get the right stuff as not everyone can but the best option. I sure wish they could as I hate seeing anybody use a cheap tstat. I bought one early on as a temporary setup as recommended by so many here and it quickly failed before it hit two months of use. It failed on and was running up the juice when I found it. From that day on I stopped suggesting and el cheapo tstats. I can still agree they are better than nothing but I would rather a person use a lamp with a dimmer while the save up for better equipment.

Yeah, it's one of those unfortunate situations where sometimes the cheap solution costs more than the expensive solution. :/