Need help identifying what line of Ghost ball python

So i purchase this male Ghost ball python from breeders circle a while back from breeders circle and wanted to know what line of ghost he is since there are a few variations. Any feedback will be greatly appreciated.



https://s6.postimg.org/z3hwdc3jl/20161105_101308.jpghttps://s6.postimg.org/ih0c49alt/20161105_101324.jpghttps://s6.postimg.org/uwx1y03xt/20161105_101316.jpghttps://s6.postimg.org/fph2dnc35/20161105_101335.jpg

Looks like an Orange Ghost.

He's likely Orange Ghost, as it's the most common line. Have you reached out to Breeder's Circle?

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Originally Posted by Eric Alan

He's likely Orange Ghost, as it's the most common line. Have you reached out to Breeder's Circle?

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No i havent tried ill reach out to them got him from a facebook auction thanks

Orange ghost most likely... You hardly ever see green ghosts around.

Here is a pic of a green ghost from the internet for comparison.

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Originally Posted by Trisnake

Orange ghost most likely... You hardly ever see green ghosts around.

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https://s6.postimg.org/5gol7to1d/DSC09465.jpg

There is no IDing lines of ghost from visually looking. Green ghosts can look like the other ghosts. You also have to ask which line of green ghost? The one compatible with the other ghosts or the one that is not? Gcr and g1 can look like some also.

With that said 99% of the ghosts you come across are going to be compatible with the stanard ghosts, orange, peach, gray, yellow, butterscotch, some green ghosts, ect. Most people have stopped using the line names anyway and just call them hypo. It would be pretty rare to find someone working with a non compatible line, but the only way you will know for sure is to breed.

Thanks for your help. I plan to breed with a wild caught ghost that i have in my collection. I was trying to see if She would produce visuals if paired with my CB ghost.

WILD CAUGHT- Ghost / New gene https://s6.postimg.org/tyuh0xur5/20160813_204253.jpghttps://s6.postimg.org/66xz4cmi9/20160813_204240.jpg

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

There is no IDing lines of ghost from visually looking. Green ghosts can look like the other ghosts. You also have to ask which line of green ghost? The one compatible with the other ghosts or the one that is not? Gcr and g1 can look like some also.

With that said 99% of the ghosts you come across are going to be compatible with the stanard ghosts, orange, peach, gray, yellow, butterscotch, some green ghosts, ect. Most people have stopped using the line names anyway and just call them hypo. It would be pretty rare to find someone working with a non compatible line, but the only way you will know for sure is to breed.

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Originally Posted by dissolvetheair23

Thanks for your help. I plan to breed with a wild caught ghost that i have in my collection. I was trying to see if She would produce visuals if paired with my CB ghost.

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Chances are good you will produce visuals, but there's always a chance either is incompatible with the standard hypo, since both come from unknown backgrounds. Makes for an interesting clutch to hatch out.

Thanks looking foward to proving her :)

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

Chances are good you will produce visuals, but there's always a chance either is incompatible with the standard hypo, since both come from unknown backgrounds. Makes for an interesting clutch to hatch out.

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Originally Posted by dissolvetheair23

Thanks for your help. I plan to breed with a wild caught ghost that i have in my collection. I was trying to see if She would produce visuals if paired with my CB ghost.

WILD CAUGHT- Ghost / New gene https://s6.postimg.org/tyuh0xur5/20160813_204253.jpghttps://s6.postimg.org/66xz4cmi9/20160813_204240.jpg

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You will never know until you try the breeding. There are certainly some WC ghosts around that are not standard orange ghost compatible. Good luck and enjoy the fun. I certainly know of dh clutches being produced by breeding two visuals together but they are rare.

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Originally Posted by yardy

You will never know until you try the breeding. There are certainly some WC ghosts around that are not standard orange ghost compatible. Good luck and enjoy the fun. I certainly know of dh clutches being produced by breeding two visuals together but they are rare.

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Thank you i look foward to proven a possible new line of ghost. She seems to have more contrast darker appearance and doesnt have that ghost hazy, in shed look to her.

This wild caught ghost is lovely. Personally, I would try and retain the purity of the line, and therefore also breed it to normals or non-hypo animals to make hets.

Warren

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Originally Posted by Warren_Booth

This wild caught ghost is lovely. Personally, I would try and retain the purity of the line, and therefore also breed it to normals or non-hypo animals to make hets.

Warren

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With Warren on that. I have a pair of hets from a new African Ghost line; it is known to be orange ghost compatible but with my ghost (hypo) obsession I am keeping them separate. I already have a pair of non OG compatible green ghosts (lovely animals), a general orange ghost group and the RH line ghosts that I prefer to work with - nothing all that special genetically, just some really good ghosts being refined to my tastes by selective breeding and fully compatible with general OG.

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Originally Posted by yardy

With Warren on that. I have a pair of hets from a new African Ghost line; it is known to be orange ghost compatible but with my ghost (hypo) obsession I am keeping them separate. I already have a pair of non OG compatible green ghosts (lovely animals), a general orange ghost group and the RH line ghosts that I prefer to work with - nothing all that special genetically, just some really good ghosts being refined to my tastes by selective breeding and fully compatible with general OG.

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So how would i go about proving thats its a new line of ghost since i see many different features this wilf caught has from all the other ghost lines. She has drastic contrast and granite pattern with no haze or shed appearance.

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Originally Posted by dissolvetheair23

So how would i go about proving thats its a new line of ghost since i see many different features this wilf caught has from all the other ghost lines. She has drastic contrast and granite pattern with no haze or shed appearance.

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If you are seeing distinctive characteristics then you will need to line breed with her as a starting point. This is obviously much slower using a female. Select a (non-ghost) male to breed to her that you think will enhance what you are seeing as different that you want to emphasise ( this is where nice normal males have a role) and go for it. You will need to keep back the babies and make more hets using a different male the following year (to keep the bloodline fresh) and hopefully by the year after you will have a het son ready to pair with her and see what you get from that. You will need to selectively breed out while retaining what you want from the line. Then rest her the year after (if she wants it - she will have earned a year off by then) and start breeding her daughters, but accept that you will make some unsaleable 66% hets along the way. When you have established that breeding a son back to the mother does indeed preserve the characteristics that you want (and that she isn't just a one off) then yo can look at naming your line of ghost and making it available to other people.

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Originally Posted by yardy

If you are seeing distinctive characteristics then you will need to line breed with her as a starting point. This is obviously much slower using a female. Select a (non-ghost) male to breed to her that you think will enhance what you are seeing as different that you want to emphasise ( this is where nice normal males have a role) and go for it. You will need to keep back the babies and make more hets using a different male the following year (to keep the bloodline fresh) and hopefully by the year after you will have a het son ready to pair with her and see what you get from that. You will need to selectively breed out while retaining what you want from the line. Then rest her the year after (if she wants it - she will have earned a year off by then) and start breeding her daughters, but accept that you will make some unsaleable 66% hets along the way. When you have established that breeding a son back to the mother does indeed preserve the characteristics that you want (and that she isn't just a one off) then yo can look at naming your line of ghost and making it available to other people.

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Thank you for your help this is very detailed explanation, seems like its gonna be a long wait but very well worth the wait. I wonder where all the unwanted poor 66% hets end up in the ball python breeding business. :O

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Originally Posted by dissolvetheair23

Iwonder where all the unwanted poor 66% hets end up in the ball python breeding business. :O

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pet homes. A lot of breeders have local pet shops they wholesale normals to for the pet market

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Originally Posted by StillBP

pet homes. A lot of breeders have local pet shops they wholesale normals to for the pet market

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True as long as its not petco that place is ball python graveyard.

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Originally Posted by dissolvetheair23

Thank you for your help this is very detailed explanation, seems like its gonna be a long wait but very well worth the wait. I wonder where all the unwanted poor 66% hets end up in the ball python breeding business. :O

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I end up keeping a lot of mine as it is easier than you might think to spot some of them. Theoretically I can then sell as proven breeder hets (well the females at least); the males tend to get sold privately as pets.

Wouldn't it be easier and more effective to breed to a known line of ghost first (the most common one as others noted earlier)? That way you can rule out if it is compatible with existing lines before trying to 'create' your own. No point in going to all that trouble and naming it a new line if it's really not. You can breed it to normal to create your hets too so you aren't stuck with a bunch of double hets on the off chance it's not compatible if you really want. Just my $0.02

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Originally Posted by AbsoluteApril

Wouldn't it be easier and more effective to breed to a known line of ghost first (the most common one as others noted earlier)? That way you can rule out if it is compatible with existing lines before trying to 'create' your own. No point in going to all that trouble and naming it a new line if it's really not. You can breed it to normal to create your hets too so you aren't stuck with a bunch of double hets on the off chance it's not compatible if you really want. Just my $0.02

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How would i know if its a new line so far the ghosts ive seen dont look like her so how would pairing it with another possible compatible line of ghost prove shes a new line.

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Originally Posted by dissolvetheair23

How would i know if its a new line so far the ghosts ive seen dont look like her so how would pairing it with another possible compatible line of ghost prove shes a new line.

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Well if it's compatible it blends in with the other 20 compatible "lines" of hypo, but at least you can sell it. If it's not compatible it pretty much has to be drastically different like desert ghost or 99% of people won't be interested in it.

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Originally Posted by dissolvetheair23

How would i know if its a new line so far the ghosts ive seen dont look like her so how would pairing it with another possible compatible line of ghost prove shes a new line.

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If it's not compatible, all the babies would be normal double hets. Then you'd know it's either a different ghost/hypo morph (since a few are not compatible) or it's your own new morph.
If it is compatible, you'd get visuals and then you would know what morph/line you have.

If it is the same as Orange Ghost but you decide to not prove that and go and create your 'own line' of that same morph with a new name, then we end up in a butter/lesser situation (same morph but two names because two people 'established' it at the same time. Ignoring the part of the discussion where people say they can tell the difference between the two).

Ball are highly variable. Just because she doesn't look exactly like the ones you've seen doesn't mean it's new. It could be though! I'm just playing devils advocate. With boa breeding, at least back in the day, people usually tried breeding to the known line/morphs first before assigning a new name to ensure it doesn't already exist.

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Originally Posted by AbsoluteApril

If it's not compatible, all the babies would be normal double hets. Then you'd know it's either a different ghost/hypo morph (since a few are not compatible) or it's your own new morph.
If it is compatible, you'd get visuals and then you would know what morph/line you have.

If it is the same as Orange Ghost but you decide to not prove that and go and create your 'own line' of that same morph with a new name, then we end up in a butter/lesser situation (same morph but two names because two people 'established' it at the same time. Ignoring the part of the discussion where people say they can tell the difference between the two).

Ball are highly variable. Just because she doesn't look exactly like the ones you've seen doesn't mean it's new. It could be though! I'm just playing devils advocate. With boa breeding, at least back in the day, people usually tried breeding to the known line/morphs first before assigning a new name to ensure it doesn't already exist.

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So lets say the Wild caughts produce visuals from a known line of ghost but the babies come out looking different than the known line and more like the mother. I guess im trying to wrap my head around this lol.

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Originally Posted by dissolvetheair23

So lets say the Wild caughts produce visuals from a known line of ghost but the babies come out looking different than the known line and more like the mother. I guess im trying to wrap my head around this lol.

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If they were wild caught how would you know the visuals are from a known line? You'd have to breed it to the known line to prove it.
If you want to prove out the mother has a different gene/morph in play, you need to isolate that gene through breeding trials to separate it from the 'ghost' genetics (which is more along the lines of what Yardy posted earlier)

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Originally Posted by dissolvetheair23

So lets say the Wild caughts produce visuals from a known line of ghost but the babies come out looking different than the known line and more like the mother. I guess im trying to wrap my head around this lol.

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What's different? Hypos don't exactly have a certain look besides the hypo part.

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

What's different? Hypos don't exactly have a certain look besides the hypo part.

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The differences I see in the Wild caught to all other ghosts ive seen and ive seen like a bajillion lol trying to study on the morph. She doesn't have a hazy or shed appearance, her ghost look is really crisp and clean. She is also very dark and has a lot of contrast. Most ghost or hypos usually are hazy or shed appearance but not her. I will try and post more pics and she just got out of shed darn lol should've snagged a couple of pics.

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

What's different? Hypos don't exactly have a certain look besides the hypo part.

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For the most part a hypo/ghost ball python is a hypomelanistic snake which therefore lacks the pigment which makes the dark pigments in snakes skin.