Slugs-- What causes them?

Okay, so me being as curious/nosy as I am, often times when I'm browsing breeders websites I'll look at breeding/hatching records, just to see what their year was like and what they produced, etc... I just can't help but notice at least two breeders who's sites I've gone to (and I'm not going to name names) seem to have very very high slug rates. Like entire 12 egg clutches being all slugs... And I know this can happen randomly and sometimes we don't know why, but going down the list I'm seeing female after female after female slug out her entire or the majority of her clutch... and it honestly makes me a bit concerned for their animals. Enough so that I don't think I would buy from them, and that's fine... I don't need to buy from them. Plenty of other breeders I'm comfortable about doing business with.

I guess my question is, what can cause such high rates of slugging out? Breeding females too young? Over breeding? Obesity of the animals? Breeding excessively small females? Maybe they moved their collection or something and the stress of it caused the pregnant females to slug out? I don't want to have a bad opinion of these people, at least without first hand experience, but I just can't see it as a fluke when such a high percentage of their clutches are completely or majorly slugged out.... there just has to be something wrong somewhere. Ideas?

It can be anything from issues with the female, fertility issues with the male, high temperatures etc, a female slugging out does not mean she will never produce well, I have 2 females that mostly slugged out their first year (we are talking about 1 good egg) and went on the following season with 11 good eggs each which are nice size clutches.

Well,actually it can also come from males who are too young , or unwell with different types of unforeseen medical issues including but not limited to low sperm counts and hemipenal issues. General incompatibility with a certain female. Genetic issues and health of both animals play into fertility.

I'm talking out of memory from reading around... Breeding too young, over breeding, and obesity can cause slugs. Over breeding, some females need to take a season off once every 2~3 seasons. Another common cause I've seen is keeping the temps too high for the female or breeding male, since too high temps damage viable sperm. Stress wouldn't necessarily produce slugs, but the female may reabsorb and not lay at all.

A small but mature female at a healthy body condition wouldn't necessarily produce slugs just for being small, just smaller clutches.

I'm also trying to find out whether producing slugs could be sometimes genetic?

I'm going to have my first clutch this year, and I've been scouring the internet.

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Originally Posted by redshepherd

I'm also trying to find out whether producing slugs could be partially genetic?

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Sometimes. Caramel females tend to produce a higher number of slugs -- But! It kinda seems like caramels may be more (perhaps overly?) sensitive to high temperatures. . . . And high temperatures are a big contributor to a female laying slugs.

I'm not entirely sure if true slugs, the yellow, undeveloped eggs, are the fault of the male. Not saying it can't be, either. Infertile eggs, yes. I've seen some people refer to all DOA eggs as slugs, so I kinda just want to be sure we're all talking about the same thing :oops:

Slugs are just follicles that were ovulated before they could mature enough to become viable eggs. So, I kinda tend to think that the root cause is hormonal, and so influenced by all the things folks have already listed. High temps, age, too much or too little visceral fat, genetics, stress, diet, all have an impact on an animals hormone levels. Exactly when in the follicles' development a stress and hormonal imbalance occurs may well have something to do with it, also. Sometimes most follicles are good to go and so ovulation is initiated when one or two ova are not ready to finish the process of becoming shelled eggs . . . Or fully shelled eggs, what have you.

Or I'm just rambling :)

I am referring to the orangey-yellow looking undeveloped ova-- true slugs. I am curious though, what are the primary differences between a slug and an infertile egg?

Can't help myself. You're going to have to forgive me for this one:
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...imaxclimax.jpg
:D :rofl::P ;)

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Originally Posted by Eric Alan

Can't help myself. You're going to have to forgive me for this one:
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...imaxclimax.jpg
:D :rofl::P ;)

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OMG... What the heck is that stuff coming out of their faces??

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Originally Posted by Trisnake

OMG... What the heck is that stuff coming out of their faces??

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If you really want to know: https://lunameetcecropia.wordpress.c...-leopard-slug/.

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Originally Posted by Eric Alan

If you really want to know: https://lunameetcecropia.wordpress.c...-leopard-slug/.

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....I wish I hadn't looked. I may never be the same.

If a description states, "This girl was a WC Gravid import that we brought in from Benin last winter. She laid several eggs, none of which hatched..." does it imply that the eggs were slugs? Can slugs be considered the equivalent of a "reptilian miscarriage"? Also, could the stress of capture and intercontinental transport lead to slugs? Thanks!

http://outbackreptiles.com/product/high-gold-blurry-ball-wc-african-import-female-free-shipping/

It's times like these when I sit back and thank god that my penis doesn't protrude from the side of my head when I get excited over the female of my species.

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Originally Posted by Eric Alan

If you really want to know: https://lunameetcecropia.wordpress.c...-leopard-slug/.

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And curiosity got the best of me.... Thanks Eric! Lol

Sent from my LG-V500 using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by cletus

It's times like these when I sit back and thank god that my penis doesn't protrude from the side of my head when I get excited over the female of my species.

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I thank God that doesn't happen to you as well. 😣

Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Macropodus

If a description states, "This girl was a WC Gravid import that we brought in from Benin last winter. She laid several eggs, none of which hatched..." does it imply that the eggs were slugs? Can slugs be considered the equivalent of a "reptilian miscarriage"? Also, could the stress of capture and intercontinental transport lead to slugs? Thanks!

http://outbackreptiles.com/product/high-gold-blurry-ball-wc-african-import-female-free-shipping/

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Well certainly it could be due to all the reasons previously discussed. Stress, hormonal, poor sperm viability of younger males etc. Eggs that don't hatch by definition are slugs. I don't think it's similar to a miscarraige first bc you can't truly compare the human physiology to reptiles. The definition of miscarraige is the spontaneous termination of pregnancy before the 20th week and is associated with abnormal hemmorage. There is a phenomenon known as parthenogenesis where eggs are laid by a female without the breeding and or sperm of a male. It happens in ball pythons but is very rare. In the cases of parthenogenesis, there is usually a viable baby inside the egg. Then again female snakes have the ability to store sperm for up to years after a breeding and in those cases there will be fertile eggs and or hatchlings produced.