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  • 10-28-2016, 01:44 PM
    GoldSheep
    Only one collasping egg... help?
    So I posted that thread about surprise eggs September 16. Because it took me a while to set up the incubator due to supplies, etc, I ended up keeping them with the mother for a while... I also I didn't separate the eggs like I usually do because they are pretty much stuck like glue.

    There is one egg that's collapsing a lot and I'm worried it won't make it until November 15th, their due date. The rest of the eggs are fine. And that one is still alive, but running out of room. BTW, I heard that changing orientation of the egg suddenly is a bad idea... is that true?

    Ideas? It's still alive in there. The moisture level is still high.

    https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...pslngalg20.jpg
  • 10-28-2016, 06:25 PM
    GoldSheep
    Re: Only one collasping egg... help?
    It's Day 43, so I'm debating if I should cut it or not...
  • 10-28-2016, 06:35 PM
    piedlover79
    Don't cut it! Day 43 is way too soon. It won't be developed and you'll just introduce bacteria.
  • 10-29-2016, 02:51 PM
    GoldSheep
    Re: Only one collasping egg... help?
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by piedlover79 View Post
    Don't cut it! Day 43 is way too soon. It won't be developed and you'll just introduce bacteria.

    Then what should I do about it collapsing so badly? It's still alive in there.
  • 10-29-2016, 03:05 PM
    piedlover79
    Just leave it be. Opening it so soon will just invite bacteria
  • 10-29-2016, 03:12 PM
    piedlover79
    Just make sure humidity is good, other than that all you can really do is wait. You'd be surprised the perfect hatchlings that can come out of ugly eggs.
  • 10-29-2016, 04:04 PM
    GoldSheep
    Re: Only one collasping egg... help?
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by piedlover79 View Post
    Just make sure humidity is good, other than that all you can really do is wait. You'd be surprised the perfect hatchlings that can come out of ugly eggs.

    It's really close to running out of room, which is why I'm worried. (When I candle it). So that's why I'm worried. The other eggs have room to go.
  • 10-29-2016, 04:17 PM
    piedlover79
    The problem is that at this early stage it will either continue to develop and hatch or something is wrong that can't be fixed by cutting. The only two things cutting can really help is a missing egg tooth or a twisted umbilical cord. At more than ten days from a natural hatch date cutting will not give him more room just an entrance for bacteria. The lungs won't even be fully developed
  • 11-06-2016, 12:18 AM
    GoldSheep
    Day 50 is tomorrow. The egg has collapsed more, despite temp reg and moisture reg. I can no longer candle it because the baby is too big for it. To cut or not to cut? If I cut it wouldn't be a wide cut, but just to pip the top for air and cover with something. Only the one egg. Really worried for this baby... thinking it might be dead or something. All the other eggs are candling fine.
  • 11-06-2016, 10:20 AM
    Albert Clark
    Re: Only one collasping egg... help?
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by GoldSheep View Post
    Day 50 is tomorrow. The egg has collapsed more, despite temp reg and moisture reg. I can no longer candle it because the baby is too big for it. To cut or not to cut? If I cut it wouldn't be a wide cut, but just to pip the top for air and cover with something. Only the one egg. Really worried for this baby... thinking it might be dead or something. All the other eggs are candling fine.

    It's unsafe to cut into any egg prior to day 55 or the other eggs have pipped. More than likely if the hatchling inside the egg were dead you would have discoloration and or odor. Do you have "press and seal" on the tubs? I would try that b4 i would cut at this point. You would be surprised how little space a hatchling needs inside the egg. :)
  • 11-06-2016, 12:53 PM
    Mangiapane85
    Re: Only one collasping egg... help?
    Please keep us posted! Pulling for the little guy!


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  • 11-06-2016, 01:54 PM
    cletus
    No doubt. I've been watching this thread. Very anxious to see how it goes. Fingers crossed for that little egg!
  • 11-06-2016, 02:18 PM
    Tigerhawk
    Don't cut the egg. Cutting it will not accomplish anything good at this point. It's not like he will come out,just because you cut the egg. Nor will cutting the egg give him more room. You will do more harm than good. Please let us know how things work out.
  • 11-07-2016, 12:31 AM
    GoldSheep
    Re: Only one collasping egg... help?
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Albert Clark View Post
    It's unsafe to cut into any egg prior to day 55 or the other eggs have pipped. More than likely if the hatchling inside the egg were dead you would have discoloration and or odor. Do you have "press and seal" on the tubs? I would try that b4 i would cut at this point. You would be surprised how little space a hatchling needs inside the egg. :)

    The color is still good in terms of color (Still as white as the others.), but there is no room for the baby so I can't candle it to see if the baby is still OK.... I have the eggs in a shoebox that has a lock on it. I'm only opening it to give it air to keep the moisture up. (Once a week--check temps and moisture every day through probes. )

    I'll wait 5 more days, but I'm really anxious for this little one--I don't think it deserves to die just because it was in a surprise clutch. The egg was small to begin with.... it's been a long time since I've lost snakes in their eggs. 'cause I usually plan months in advance...

    The other ones at least are doing fine and look like they are filling their eggs very well. I plan to let them hatch naturally. I'm not inclined to cut... I like thing to take their course, but the egg is so collapsed I'm worried it'll be able to breathe or even pip the egg.
  • 11-09-2016, 03:14 AM
    GoldSheep
    The egg is molding, though still white. I think it's dead. Should I wait or try to separate it from the other eggs? I'm disappointed because it only had a few more days to go. (3 to be exact). The other eggs look fine otherwise.
  • 11-09-2016, 03:26 AM
    Mangiapane85
    Re: Only one collasping egg... help?
    Does candling the egg show anything this late in the process? How much yolk sac has been absorbed, remaining veins, body structure? Anything?


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  • 11-09-2016, 03:46 AM
    GoldSheep
    Re: Only one collasping egg... help?
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Mangiapane85 View Post
    Does candling the egg show anything this late in the process? How much yolk sac has been absorbed, remaining veins, body structure? Anything?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    It's so collapsed it won't candle that well (i.e. I can't see through it and the air bubble, etc is gone). I think I can still see blood vessels at the top... but the egg is severely looking like it's going to die, if not already dead. There is only 3 days left before it would have developed lungs, etc if it's still alive in there. I wish I could do SOMETHING to keep the baby alive, but I'm not sure it'll make it.

    The eggs were laid on September 16th and pretty stuck together due to it being a surprise clutch. It'd like to cut the egg soon as possible... only that one.
  • 11-09-2016, 11:31 AM
    GoldSheep
    I'll cut the egg tomorrow no matter what... :please: Please be OK.
  • 11-09-2016, 11:43 AM
    piedlover79
    I'm pulling for this little egg! I've seen perfectly good hatchlings crawl out of some really bad eggs. I would still wait till one of the other eggs pip before cutting. If he's alive in there then he needs the full time to develop and cutting will only let the mold in.
  • 11-09-2016, 12:20 PM
    Mangiapane85
    Re: Only one collasping egg... help?
    Yes, I have heard of perfectly good babies pipping out of molded eggs. Don't cut it tomorrow! If the baby didn't make it, then two more days won't matter.


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  • 11-09-2016, 12:36 PM
    Albert Clark
    Re: Only one collasping egg... help?
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by GoldSheep View Post
    I'll cut the egg tomorrow no matter what... :please: Please be OK.

    Well we are all advising you to not cut into the egg until day 55 or one of the other eggs pips. What you are planning to do is not acceptable intervention at the stage the eggs are at. The egg may look small but what you can't see is the depth the egg drops down into the clutch from the underside. Most of the people who have responded have been there and are experienced in this type of situation. In any case Good luck.
  • 11-09-2016, 12:48 PM
    GoldSheep
    That would be day 55...
  • 11-09-2016, 01:23 PM
    piedlover79
    Since they day 55 mark is just an estimate I would still wait for one of the others to pip first, it's a better marker of when it's time.
  • 11-09-2016, 02:21 PM
    Albert Clark
    Re: Only one collasping egg... help?
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by GoldSheep View Post
    That would be day 55...

    Oh! Ok. I would still reconsider cutting. Your temps and humidity have been on point correct? piedlover has a point as well. Again, good luck in whichever way you decide to go.
  • 11-09-2016, 02:26 PM
    Trisnake
    Are any of the other eggs dimpling in yet? Lots of people (from what ive seen and read) cut at day 55 and don't experience many problems, but it's risky in my opinion...
  • 11-09-2016, 04:21 PM
    Mangiapane85
    Re: Only one collasping egg... help?
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by GoldSheep View Post
    That would be day 55...

    Wait. Judging by your other posts, I was thinking tomorrow would be day 53.?... please just hold out on cutting it. Please.


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  • 11-11-2016, 12:03 AM
    GoldSheep
    My instinct was correct. The baby is dead inside. Looks like a pastel? Kinda hard to tell since it's underdeveloped.. But I think it pretty much suffocated a few days ago, when I was concerned for it and claimed that it ran out of room--there is no more yolk/white or any contents besides the baby.... No way to tell if it's male or female (Part of the skin is adhered to the egg and I'm not going to pull it out to find out. The other eggs, though are doing fine. The pattern on the baby makes it look like it was pastel that was the father. Sad for the little one. I separated it from the other eggs so they won't mold which will not change the position of said eggs. Rest of Eggs should hatch in 5-6 days.

    I cleaned my hands and the scissors before cutting... still feel disappointed.

    The other eggs are candling well though. They should hatch naturally. I've never had a baby have trouble with its egg tooth. I'm normally reticent to cut. I'll post pictures on request only... but I don't favor pictures of grim outcomes.
  • 11-11-2016, 12:11 AM
    GoldSheep
    BTW, I think what people can take away from this is that when an egg is collapsing too early and it's in a pile to try to separate it gently and then prop it up in the vermiculite, especially small eggs... And yes, that moldy of an egg when no room to candle is probably close to dead.
  • 11-11-2016, 09:43 AM
    Albert Clark
    Re: Only one collasping egg... help?
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by GoldSheep View Post
    BTW, I think what people can take away from this is that when an egg is collapsing too early and it's in a pile to try to separate it gently and then prop it up in the vermiculite, especially small eggs... And yes, that moldy of an egg when no room to candle is probably close to dead.

    . Well, one thing is for sure. You have my deepest sympathies. However in the scheme of things and the way they unfolded here I think you were between a rock and a hard place in that the egg was underdeveloped (age ) for the intervention that you were proposing. This intervention was very risky and no guarantee that it would've changed the outcome. We (breeders) have all lost eggs and hatchlings along the way, it happens and the viability and sucessful hatching of a egg or a clutch of eggs is something that we don't have the final say on. Hope this helps somewhat.
  • 11-11-2016, 10:42 AM
    piedlover79
    I'm very sorry to hear this. Removing an egg that is doing poorly is very risky to the healthy eggs though. If you're only a few days from hatch and a bad egg doesn't just come free without any pulling or cutting it is still best to just leave it be so as to not risk tearing a hole in a good egg. Good eggs are amazingly resistant to mold.

    All in all you did the best you could and I doubt cutting sooner would have done anything as an underdeveloped hatchling rarely has good lungs.
  • 11-14-2016, 09:28 AM
    GoldSheep
    The rest of the eggs hatched today.... I'll make a separate thread upcoming, but at least wanted to give a positive note somewhere.
  • 11-14-2016, 10:24 AM
    Albert Clark
    Re: Only one collasping egg... help?
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by GoldSheep View Post
    The rest of the eggs hatched today.... I'll make a separate thread upcoming, but at least wanted to give a positive note somewhere.

    Congrats on the hatchlings! Looking forward to seeing all the pretty babies.
  • 11-14-2016, 01:46 PM
    cletus
    Re: Only one collasping egg... help?
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by GoldSheep View Post
    The rest of the eggs hatched today.... I'll make a separate thread upcoming, but at least wanted to give a positive note somewhere.

    That's great news! A very positive note.
  • 11-14-2016, 05:17 PM
    Mangiapane85
    Re: Only one collasping egg... help?
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by GoldSheep View Post
    The rest of the eggs hatched today.... I'll make a separate thread upcoming, but at least wanted to give a positive note somewhere.

    Can't wait to see the pics!!


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