Question for the breeders. "Undesirables"?

So this may seem odd, and maybe "undesirable" wasn't the proper word, but with all of the clutches that you guys hatch every year, there have to be SEVERAL normals that come out.. so what do you do with them? How do you find a customer base that is willing to take them off your hands? Once I start breeding I'm just scared that I'll have tubs full of normals with no way to sell them lol... don't get me wrong, normals are still beautiful, but it seems like there's just very little demand for them now.


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Sell them to beginners for maybe $20. Or as a solo pet. No higher than $30

I dump mine off at a local pet store whom I am friends with the owner at $5.00 each he only charges $19.99 for them and I offer advice on set-ups to the new owners and assistance if they have issues later

Many breeders have a relationship with a local pet store and wholesale their lower price point animals to them. They also attempt to minimize their chances at even producing said animals in the first place (working with Supers, homozygous recessives, etc).

$5 males $20 females......
Pet stores and craigslist

Well you can sit on them hoping they will sell retail for $10 or $20 however realistically by the time they actually do sell you will have more money invested in them than what you sell them for, and obviously no one like to lose money. That obviously require that you either sell locally or do shows, as selling a normal online very unlikely due to shipping cost.

You can also wholesale them, to local mom and pop pet stores which might not take them all depending on how many you have, or to bigger pet stores that also do shows however this will require a larger volume on your part as they are not gonna buy one or 2 normal.

I wholesale my normal, I wholesale them with het males and possible hets (males and females), and lower Dom and co-dom single gene (males & females), they either ship out straight out of the egg or after 3 meals. It's not a lot of money but it allows me not to lose any by caring for animals that might take months to sell.

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Awesome. Thanks guys!!


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That's what I'm concerned about, when I think about breeding... I don't want to put my animals in a store that I know won't properly care for them, with staff that I know won't educate the consumer correctly on their care. All just because they're not as valuable as some of the other animals I produce.

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Originally Posted by Trisnake

That's what I'm concerned about, when I think about breeding... I don't want to put my animals in a store that I know won't properly care for them, with staff that I know won't educate the consumer correctly on their care. All just because they're not as valuable as some of the other animals I produce.

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So don't. :P As the breeder, you have the choice on who you do business with. It really is that simple. :gj:

To be fair, your thoughts are absolutely valid. As a breeder, it's rare that you're 100% certain your animals are going to receive exceptional care in their new homes - whether they go to stores or individuals. All you can do is your best during your interactions and conversations with potential customers to learn if they're a good fit for the animal(s) they're intending to purchase. Beyond that, there's not much you can do.

You don't have to produce normals if you don't want to. However, this means you need a higher initial investment in multi-gene (or visual recessive) snakes that will yield more valuable and easily sellable offspring.

I am in the same boat as you and don't want to deal with normals. However, I am not planning on breeding to make money, so I can take my time and produce just a small amount of desirable snakes.

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Originally Posted by treaux

You don't have to produce normals if you don't want to. However, this means you need a higher initial investment in multi-gene (or visual recessive) snakes that will yield more valuable and easily sellable offspring.

I am in the same boat as you and don't want to deal with normals. However, I am not planning on breeding to make money, so I can take my time and produce just a small amount of desirable snakes.

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Well me too. I love the hobby and can't wait for the thrill of my babies making babies right in front of me and knowing that I helped to do it. But at the same time, I do hope to earn at least enough money eventually that pays for my own hobby. .. and I plan on working UP to the multi gene. But for now I'm just gonna work w my butter, Mojave, Pastel Enchi and Bumblebee... there will be a few multi genes in there I guess. But those should definitely create some good offspring!


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Before breeding I usually think about if I am willing to keep the snakes no one wants. I also choose Normals that are beautiful to begin with--or snakes I like the pattern of before I breed. Select cool looking normals. (Bryan Gundie also argued this in one of his videos. That the snakes you select matter.)

I tend NOT to rock bottom the normals because my aim is to find permanent homes where the person will be good to the snake, not where I get the most cash. There are threads in this forum about how many people mistreat snakes after sale and I see my primary job is to minimize this problem from the point of sale, whether the snake is a normal or not. I try my best to informall of my sellers the time and effort involved in keeping a ball python. I've refused sales because they want the snake NOW, but don't have the tank set up and ready to go. Or they want the snake, but have no previous experience. This is something I do that I don't trust my pet store will do for me. (and they often cramp them in small cages they don't belong in.)

I think breeders should be worried about the life of the snake rather than how "wanted" it is or not. They still are animals someone can love. I have to admit I love my normal a little more than my morphs. 'cause she's one awesome looking normal.

My normal occasionally produces with the pastel these o-rings along the dorsal on my normals. The females especially sell really quickly with that mutation.

This one was female and sold fast with the mutation.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...2FNormalH5.jpg

This is my female/mother... you can see that she has a yellow fade which does a lot of good things to pastels (brightening them up quite a bit) and lending her pattern to create the o-rings in the babies. I think she'd enhance lessers and yellow bellies too. Though she's a normal, the yellow fade is dominant.
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...IMG_3077_1.jpg


With my Pastel she also produced this: https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...psf32f30be.jpg

A lot of people wanted that snake, but no one said the right words, so I never sold it. She unfortunately died... but the cool pattern in the parent snakes influenced the results.

Plus the temperament of the parents have influenced the kids. My female acts more like a boa most of the time. Wanting out, doesn't want to go back, etc. About half the kids act just like her. Wanting to escape, etc. Some of them even have similar eating habits.

So choose your parent snakes wisely and the normals will sell too.

Why did she die??


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And yes, when I look at normals, I think about all of the local PetCos to be honest. Their normals always look terrible, and I'd love to give them well started healthy snakes to sell.. but then I realize it's probably their fault for not maintaining proper husbandry.


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Originally Posted by Mangiapane85

Why did she die??


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She died, I think because the house I kept her in was too small... I gave her a larger hide place, but she preferred the smaller one. I threw out that hide after she died. I think it was physical trauma (accidental) from dropping from the hide. I now use: https://www.amazon.com/Tot-Tutors-Pr...s+storage+bins with a hole cut out for the hides. Less cleaning hassle, less danger to the snake. (You have no idea how much I loved her. She had the personality of her mom, loved socializing, but was a pastel with an awesome pattern. I was planning to find her a nice boy lesser given her pattern....)

Anyway, I choose my normals very, very carefully. I'm very picky about what I want out of their pattern color and look. By being that picky and buying only from reputable breeders who care more about the welfare of the snakes, than getting a sale, I ensure that the normals also get sold. I buy snakes from different breeders to minimize incest, but will choose snakes that look similar in order to produce the results I want. I check parentage as well, before purchase to minimize issues.

In another words, I do the footwork and think hard about what I want for the welfare of the snakes, and in doing so can turn around normals fairly quickly for a better price than 20 dollars.

I still would love to see what my normal does to a yellow belly. I'm waiting on my male pastel (under 3 years old, son of the breeding pastel) to safely get up to a weight where he can breed my cinnamon. I'm pretty sure the yellow fade is dominant. So will the pewters also have the yellow fade he has? (Wouldn't that look awesome?)

So yeah, look carefully at the snakes you wish to purchase and purchase along similar patterns.

BTW, I purchased my original normal from lllreptile. While a pet shop, they work with breeders (I asked who their breeder was, etc), have snake first policy, etc. I put a lot of effort into specifying what I wanted and got one gorgeous snake from them. The males I bred to her I purchased from someone who got them from Graziani (I think the sp is correct). The cinnamon I bought is a different line, but since cinnamons came from Graziani, I figure it's better to breed the cinnamon to a male I know isn't a graziani, but at least a few generations removed.

It's totally worth your time to invest in the best looking normals possible--not only their health, but their pattern, background and parentage. Doing this will also minimize birth defects and show off your knowledge of genetics. I also think if you're a lot more selective overall, you could in effect create your own line/set of morphs through careful selection. I would love to develop a complete dorsal o-ring in my normals. Looks like it's mostly dominant.