Gaining Back Trust

I'm making a separate but related thread of an ongoing topic of mine.

To catch the uninformed up to date, my little BP (Cookie/Wheatley) is suspected to have RI. To get a better look at his air way, I had to open the poor babe's mouth.

This is how I did it. I -gently- but firmly held his head in a three point grip. Two fingers on either side of his head, where his jaw bones meet, and one supporting his head as he was being a wiggle worm. I used a freshly cleaned pair of tweezers (as sterile as I could get them with rubbing alcohol then thorough washing and drying with warm water so the tool itself wasn't cold.) I used the soft edged part (where you hold it) to gently pry his mouth open. At first he bit at it a couple times, kind of vibrating his jaw a bit. Took a peek at his windpipe as much as I could see, and stuck my ear close to him. I couldn't hear anything. I slowly let go of him and took the tool away from his mouth, being sure not to touch any of his little needles the wrong way.

While he had his mouth closed, I put his nose close to my ear, and heard the clicking noise again.

I repeated the process of opening his jaw to listen as carefully as possible. Nothing. No clicking/bubbling. No visible mucus. And the flesh looks like a healthy gum color. (Like people who brush their teeth as often as they should. A soft light pink.)

He held still during all this, freaked out, of course.

I increased the heat in his tank out of concern, his cold spot sitting at 80°F, the hot spot being close to 100° should he choose to go in his warm hide. My room has been chilly, so I have not been removing him as often as I used to. Other than to check his mouth, and while preparing him food, he had not been out since he got home.

I haven't had time to see if he distrusts me now, but I have no doubt in my mind that he does. So is there any way to earn that trust again? Handling and such like you would with a new BP?


Herp Derp

I would say that he'll get over it with time, handling is not the way to go in this situation especially with the RI, it'll just cause stress which will make the infection worse. With the RI situation, is he still eating? That's usually when I get a good look at Karma's mouth.

I'm just curious, but why the increase of temps? Wouldn't the hot spot being 100 be too hot, even if the snake does have an RI? I've never heard increased temps holding off/treating an RI...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PythonBabes

I would say that he'll get over it with time, handling is not the way to go in this situation especially with the RI, it'll just cause stress which will make the infection worse. With the RI situation, is he still eating? That's usually when I get a good look at Karma's mouth.

I'm just curious, but why the increase of temps? Wouldn't the hot spot being 100 be too hot, even if the snake does have an RI? I've never heard increased temps holding off/treating an RI...

---

RI isn't confirmed. Just suspected. It's disproven in a way since the clicking noises do not seem to be coming from his airway. I suspect it's coming from his nose holes...

However, because of how cold it is in my room, increasing the heat for him doesn't change anything but his hotspot.


Herp Derp

1st..100 degrees is wayy to hot..seriously. Get it back to where its suppose to be, w his hot side being too hot now, you will likely cause him to stay on the cool side to avoid cooking.

Even if he distrusts u now...he will get over it, trust me.

Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk

And how often did vet say to open and check in his mouth? Any way you do it...its stressful...and atm, stress isnt gonna help. Also do continue to not handle while getting treatment or on meds for stuff.

Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk

Definitely get the hot spot back to 90! Being almost 100 will cause thermal burns, if he even goes on that side.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jeanne

1st..100 degrees is wayy to hot..seriously. Get it back to where its suppose to be, w his hot side being too hot now, you will likely cause him to stay on the cool side to avoid cooking.

Even if he distrusts u now...he will get over it, trust me.

Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk

---

Good point.... set it back down.


Herp Derp

So a burn and RI are what you are wanting??

Why would you ant to raise the hot spot so high?? This WILL cause a burn.
Why can you not let it be for a while?? HANDS OFF...... Stress WILL help cause an RI.

Nose/Nasal is also an airway.

It is your animal and do with it as you wish but you keep asking questions and getting the same answer over and over.
Ball Pythons are not a real hands on type animal, if you want something you can play with everyday then get a dog cat or even a rat/mouse.

Before you think he is sick... If you do not see mucus or bubbles in his mouth he might just have a piece of stuck shed in his nostrils especially if you hear the "clicking noise" coming from his nose. Also from personal experience if your animal is still on the small size "under 600 grams" it could be stress driven his "wheeze". Some little ones will let out clicking noises under serious stress. Doesn't necessarily mean they are sick. I would leave him be. If you want to increase temps to attempt to help burn it out no more than 2 degrees. If he is still feeding that is a good sign this is stress induced. I would leave him alone for the next few weeks. Let him relax, feed, and shed. See if it was stress induced.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

It is your animal and do with it as you wish but you keep asking questions and getting the same answer over and over.
Ball Pythons are not a real hands on type animal, if you want something you can play with everyday then get a dog cat or even a rat/mouse.

---

This is exactly what I said in a previous post of theirs. I know for a fact that they said something about mice/rats being stupid. If I'm being honest though..sometimes I feel bad for feeding such a smart animal to something that is only run by basic instincts.

But yeah, ball pythons are not pets you just cuddle and hold all day. Karma gets handled twice a week at most, sometimes not at all. And with me 'handling' is really just taking her out and letting her explore around on my bed or my floor, sometimes in the den area if none of my siblings are home. That's it.

If you don't like rats/mice, maybe guinea pigs or a chinchilla, they're both a joy to own. Rabbits... if you can handle and keep up with their smell.

Respiratory infections in young animals like this are very preventable so long you are willing to understand the species have the right expectatio and are willing to listen.

At this age RI are mainly due to a combination of stress and improper husbandry and if the animal does not have a RI yet, it's only a matter of time considering everything.

Breeders raise 100's even thousands of hatchlings each year yet hatchlings do not develop RI. Why? Because they provide optimum husbandry and limited stress.

I have done this for ten years and never had a single hatchling with a RI and some remain in my care for up to a year. Not that it can't happen but it is VERY unlikely.

It's really not rocket science it's knowledge, and understanding of the species and willingness to listen.

If you want something you can handle every day that tolerates handling and is forgiving when it it comes to husbandry, get a corn snake or a milksnake, because BP are not it, never have, never will be.

If you want something that loves you, cuddles with you, trust you and you can play with you for hours at the time get a dog.


Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scosta56

Before you think he is sick... If you do not see mucus or bubbles in his mouth he might just have a piece of stuck shed in his nostrils especially if you hear the "clicking noise" coming from his nose. Also from personal experience if your animal is still on the small size "under 600 grams" it could be stress driven his "wheeze". Some little ones will let out clicking noises under serious stress. Doesn't necessarily mean they are sick. I would leave him be. If you want to increase temps to attempt to help burn it out no more than 2 degrees. If he is still feeding that is a good sign this is stress induced. I would leave him alone for the next few weeks. Let him relax, feed, and shed. See if it was stress induced.

---

He has gone through a rather agitating time, and it was directly after checking his mouth. So understandable.

I haven't taken him out since, so I've already been hands off with him.

I take him out twice in a week

"Oh god he's going to die! Do you want to kill him!? What's wrong with you!?"

Lol... some of these people just read two words and freak out.


Herp Derp

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deborah

Respiratory infections in young animals like this are very preventable so long you are willing to understand the species have the right expectatio and are willing to listen.

At this age RI are mainly due to a combination of stress and improper husbandry and if the animal does not have a RI yet, it's only a matter of time considering everything.

Breeders raise 100's even thousands of hatchlings each year yet hatchlings do not develop RI. Why? Because they provide optimum husbandry and limited stress.

I have done this for ten years and never had a single hatchling with a RI and some remain in my care for up to a year. Not that it can't happen but it is VERY unlikely.

It's really not rocket science it's knowledge, and understanding of the species and willingness to listen.

If you want something you can handle every day that tolerates handling and is forgiving when it it comes to husbandry, get a corn snake or a milksnake, because BP are not it, never have, never will be.

If you want something that loves you, cuddles with you, trust you and you can play with you for hours at the time get a dog.


Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

---

I'm not trading in my snake.


Herp Derp

You need to leave your snake alone; you are causing it more stress every day. Every time I come on here your snake is in some new situation that is stressful. Scared by a dog, over handling by you, forcing its mouth open because of a "suspected" RI, cranking up his hot spot to a dangerous level.

Honestly, leave the poor thing alone for awhile.

Interesting....... SMH

((Video removed at the discretion of the admin.))

"I will rememberrrrr youuuu"

-eye roll-

(Btw he's never seen my phone. This one is super reflective, so he saw another snake but couldn't smell him. He had a soft body, so he wasn't tense at all. But when I held him over his tank he wanted to go back, so I cut the video short. Otherwise I was going to show off the rest of the tank.)

Pit this is directed strictly towards you :gj:

The phone is shaking. Not so much my arm.

If he was afraid he'd start striking. Because that's what Wheatley does when he is upset.

Also, obviously snakes can't hear. I still talk to him though. Just out of habit. Just because he's a cutie.

Herp Derp

Intent of the video aside, I will offer the following husbandry advice, which I strongly recommend you follow:

• Despite your bravado, you have not shown that his hot spot is safe. Hot spot temperatures should always be taken on the enclosure surface - not on top of the substrate. Rather than taking the temperature on top of the paper towel, take the temperature directly on the floor of the enclosure. I bet you'll be surprised by the difference. The air between the paper towels and the floor, and the paper towels themselves, act as insulators to heat generated by the pad. When Wheatley moves the towels aside and hides underneath them (directly on the floor), he needs to be safe doing so.

Natalie, you are a very, very new beginner to ball pythons. You do not know what you are doing and it is evident in your posts. You are bringing the drama, when all everyone wants is for you to have a happy and healthy snake. Right now, you do not have a happy and healthy snake. You think you know your snake, but you do not have nearly enough experience with snakes to be able to know whether or not your snake is stressed out. I am telling you that he is. Everyone is telling you that he is. Listen to the people that have decades of experience in keeping ball pythons because they only want to help your snake.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mlededee

Natalie, you are a very, very new beginner to ball pythons. You do not know what you are doing and it is evident in your posts. You are bringing the drama, when all everyone wants is for you to have a happy and healthy snake. Right now, you do not have a happy and healthy snake. You think you know your snake, but you do not have nearly enough experience with snakes to be able to know whether or not your snake is stressed out. I am telling you that he is. Everyone is telling you that he is. Listen to the people that have decades of experience in keeping ball pythons because they only want to help your snake.

---

:bow:

Very well put.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deborah

If you want something you can handle every day that tolerates handling and is forgiving when it it comes to husbandry, get a corn snake or a milksnake, because BP are not it, never have, never will be.

If you want something that loves you, cuddles with you, trust you and you can play with you for hours at the time get a dog.


Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

---

^This^

I've mentioned this in other threads regarding "best beginner snakes" and whatnot, but I've NEVER understood by B-P's have this reputation as the perfect first snake. Compared to corns, kings, and milks these guys are positively high maintenance, and picky eaters to boot! Yes they are generally not prone to bite, but that doesn't make it the perfect beginner pet. I know when researching for my snake the first question i asked myself was, "How do i feel about creating and maintaining a mini tropical ecosystem inside of a plastic box?". The handling issue was also of concern to me b/c, heck, i really like handling my snake. At the end of the day, even though they are awesome and come in amazing morphs, i decided that, for me, a BCI was a better "beginner" choice; always eats, very tolerant of handling, and although tropical, known to be very adaptable to fluctuations in climate (within reason, of course).
So I guess what i'm saying is... Boas Rule! BP's Drool!
:DJK JK JK :D

regarding cuddly pets, i have a theory: i think the most "serpentine" mammal you can own is a ferret. they are long and bendy, live in a tank, and sleep all day - awesome little critters, but check you local laws, they are not allowed in some places.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KingWheatley

((Video removed at the discretion of the admin.))

"I will rememberrrrr youuuu"

-eye roll-

(Btw he's never seen my phone. This one is super reflective, so he saw another snake but couldn't smell him. He had a soft body, so he wasn't tense at all. But when I held him over his tank he wanted to go back, so I cut the video short. Otherwise I was going to show off the rest of the tank.)

Pit this is directed strictly towards you :gj:

The phone is shaking. Not so much my arm.

If he was afraid he'd start striking. Because that's what Wheatley does when he is upset.

Also, obviously snakes can't hear. I still talk to him though. Just out of habit. Just because he's a cutie.

Herp Derp

---

Was the video of Wheatley being handled just now? Like, as in today?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dkatz4

^This^

I've mentioned this in other threads regarding "best beginner snakes" and whatnot, but I've NEVER understood by B-P's have this reputation as the perfect first snake. Compared to corns, kings, and milks these guys are positively high maintenance, and picky eaters to boot! Yes they are generally not prone to bite, but that doesn't make it the perfect beginner pet. I know when researching for my snake the first question i asked myself was, "How do i feel about creating and maintaining a mini tropical ecosystem inside of a plastic box?". The handling issue was also of concern to me b/c, heck, i really like handling my snake. At the end of the day, even though they are awesome and come in amazing morphs, i decided that, for me, a BCI was a better "beginner" choice; always eats, very tolerant of handling, and although tropical, known to be very adaptable to fluctuations in climate (within reason, of course).
So I guess what i'm saying is... Boas Rule! BP's Drool!
:DJK JK JK :D

regarding cuddly pets, i have a theory: i think the most "serpentine" mammal you can own is a ferret. they are long and bendy, live in a tank, and sleep all day - awesome little critters, but check you local laws, they are not allowed in some places.

---

Is that a full sized boa? Like....12ft snake?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KingWheatley

((Video removed at the discretion of the admin.))

Pit this is directed strictly towards you :gj:

---

The video was entertaining and shows your ignorance in care and husbandry all at the same time. :rofl::rofl::rofl:
I already told you once when you decided to PM me that I don't sugar coat anything.

Your snake can and will burrow, this is the reason you should be taking the temperatures on the hottest surface your animal can touch.

I am interested in your reasoning to have a water bowl inside a hide? An attempt at a humid hide to try and correct your husbandry?
Not the greatest idea to put them in a position to have to soak if they want to be in the hot hide.....

You do know we can still see the original post even though you edited it and I don't mind BUT remember I a proud of that title and Mr. goes in front of it.:gj:

Honestly, if you do end up sticking around, please ask for advice before you do something. I don't have any ill will towards you, but as others have said and just from read the threads it's always something up with your BP. Though it may seem people are ganging up on you, that's not the case. Our whole point is that we want the snake to live a long and happy life because we as keepers owe it to the animal in our captivity to give it the best possible care. The situations that keep arising is the exact opposite. Sure, we all make mistakes, but the thing is people have to learn from their mistakes. Even experienced keepers make mistakes, though not as drastic as some of your cases have been, but don't get upset over constructive criticism. I think you take things wrong more often than not, and that's just the internet. We can't control the way you perceive things.

If I get 10 people in a room, have them face different directions, give them a piece of paper, tell them to fold it in half, then fold it in half again, tear the left corner, fold in half again and tear the right corner. Most of the people won't end up with the same result. It's just the way we interpret things. I know when I say fold a paper in half.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yzmasmom

Is that a full sized boa? Like....12ft snake?

---

lol, no, I forgot to specify, my Irwin is a dwarf, although honestly I think if a beginner got a regular boa constrictor as a baby, their slow growth (when fed properly) would enable the owner to gain sufficient experience and grow with the snake by the time it was adult sized. In fact these days I am sort of sorry that I didn't go for a regular sized boa because my snake is so much fun I wish that there were more of him. Also, 12 foot is exceptionally large for a boa constrictor, not unprecedented, of course, but certainly way above average.