Help please

Hi guys! I'm new here and need some advice. I'm new to the whole bp keeping and have some questions/concerns. My first issue is humidity I can not keep it up. We must the tank it gets to around 60% then drops down drastically to 20% over night. I spray in the morning then within hours it's in the 30% range. I have a water dish on each side of the tank (40gallon) I have tried covering the top with damp towels, plastic wrap even tin foil. I can't keep it up which has resulted in 2 pretty bad sheds. I gave him a bath after each one to Help him out and he does good after that..so help with humidity would be great.
Question 2 He had recently in the last week been very sketchy when I'm at his enclosure he had struck at me twice now and hee hasn't done this before. I'm not sure wats bringing that on and it scares me a bit. Any idea why He's acting this way?
Question 3 im not sure he's eating the right amount...? Which might explain Question 2 but he is about 2 yrs old he's approximately 300grams and around 2ft long. He's eating adult mice 1x weekly...
We did a lot of research before getting him but everything we read conflicts with the pet store where we got him from. So I'm getting a little confused. I can post a picture of him if able to I'm not sure how to use the forum as I'm new to it as well.
Thanks in advance! I hope I put this in the right place!

1--Enclosure is too large. Bathing is not helping as much as it is hurting, you are washing away oils your animal produces to shed.
2--It is not secure
3--If it will eat a second mouse every other week it wouldn't hurt depending on the size of the mouse.

What is the rest of your husbandry? Temperatures? Heat source? How are you regulating heat source?

Hmmm ok about what size should he be in? Pet store told us this would be a good size... As far as the bathing goes even if it's about 5 days after he starts and he's not getting any where? The first time we did just a warm one second time a used shed ease.

As far as not feeling secure any idea why would this come about all of a sudden? He hasn't done this before we haven't changed anything either.

His cold side is usually in the low to mid 70s warm side is about 85-90. We have a uth and 2 lights one 75w heat lamp on a timer as then a infrared 60w for night time also I the timer. We have 2 hides in there as well.

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h1...psqcouxfgn.jpg

What are you using to take temperatures?

I have a digital one with a probe. Like in your picture but it's not under the substrate

If someone can tell me how to add a picture I can upload some of his set up and everything

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...-Post-Pictures

[IMG]http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h5...pspyle10xs.jpg[/IMG]


[IMG]http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h5...psi1zgdwq4.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h5...psefkugfbp.jpg[/IMG]


Ok here we go. And idk why but he hasn't been using his hide lately either. He is just burrowing under the substrate. This just started a week ago or so when he started getting unsure of me being around the enclosure

A 40 gallon tank is huge for a 300 gram ball. And 300 grams for being 2 years old seems like he needs to eat more. I would try two things IF IT WERE ME. Convert him to a 14 quart tub with a low profile, not a deep one. And try upping his food intake. ... when I got my first two BP's, I put them in 20 gallon glass tanks. But they didn't wanna eat and just seemed intimidated. I've since been a converted "tub man". They responded so well it's crazy. They're little puppy dogs that LOVE to eat.


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Those hides need changing, ball pythons like hides with a single small opening and closed on all sides. Those half log hides leave them too vulnerable causing stress.

Yea his size was mentioned to us when we got him. We have only had home for about 3 months he was relinquished to the store we got him from and very under weight. They said his growth may be stunted because of the neglect. He has a very healthy appetite and havemt had any issues with feeding. The more research I do the more angry I get with the pet store. A lot of what they told us seems to be just nonsense. The tub idea intimidates me as well for some reason.

As far as hides go we need more of the cave style then?? The hides were included in a whole set that the pet store had put together for him.

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Originally Posted by Abouse

As far as hides go we need more of the cave style then?? The hides were included in a whole set that the pet store had put together for him.

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For aesthetics you can use something like this

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...TT7Z2FN21V6Q5C


I used these and a lot of other members use them as well.

http://www.reptilebasics.com/medium-hide-box

He is eating adult mice right now...is that not sufficient? The pet store had him on mice pinkies 2x a week when we got him and told us to switch him to one adult mouse.

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Originally Posted by Rikoku

For aesthetics you can use something like this

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...TT7Z2FN21V6Q5C


I used these and a lot of other members use them as well.

http://www.reptilebasics.com/medium-hide-box

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Ok I'll grab some of those then and see if that helps any idea why he just stopped using his current ones?

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Originally Posted by Abouse

Ok I'll grab some of those then and see if that helps any idea why he just stopped using his current ones?

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Any multitude of reasons. Could not feel secure in them or the temperatures could be off.

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Originally Posted by Rikoku

Any multitude of reasons. Could not feel secure in them or the temperatures could be off.

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Ok so I guess we will start with the hides then. We have spent a lot of money on all of this so I would hate to just put him in a tub and everything be wasted.
Any idea on the humidity issue? We live in Colorado so we already have very dry air. I bought a humidifier for the living room where he is at but it hasn't seemed to Help any.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Abouse

Ok so I guess we will start with the hides then. We have spent a lot of money on all of this so I would hate to just put him in a tub and everything be wasted.
Any idea on the humidity issue? We live in Colorado so we already have very dry air. I bought a humidifier for the living room where he is at but it hasn't seemed to Help any.

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Doesn't have to be wasted- you can always try this enclosure again when he's adult size, 1000g or so, and using two of something like the reptilebasics hides. But a tub setup would definitely benefit him more for now.

About humidity, if you still want to keep him in this tank, try folding a large towel, soaking it with water and then laying it over the screen top, covering like 80% of it. I use a 24" exo terra with one of my adult males, and when the humidity does drop to 40%, I use this method. And the humidity bumps up to 70% or so and stays there. Need to resoak the towel only once every day and a half.

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Originally Posted by redshepherd

Doesn't have to be wasted- you can always try this enclosure again when he's adult size, 1000g or so, and using two of something like the reptilebasics hides. But a tub setup would definitely benefit him more for now.

About humidity, if you still want to keep him in this tank, try folding a large towel, soaking it with water and then laying it over the screen top. I use a 24" exo terra with one of my adult males, and when the humidity does drop to 40%, I use this method. And the humidity bumps up to 70% or so and stays there. Need to resoak the towel only once every day and a half.

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Ok. As far as when he is adult size...idk if this is true or not pet store told us He may only reach about 3ft.. Due to the poor environment he was in...is this something that may actually affect his total size and in turn the size of his enclosure? Is this a common thing when not cared for properly early on?

I would like to try and keep him there if I can't get everything right I will definitely look into moving to a tub.
I wonder now if I haven't used a large enough towel to try to cover the top. We used a smaller towel so maybe try larger thicker one?
I'm sorry if these questions are so basic but with all my conflicting info and his already rough start in life I want him to be as happy and comfortable as possible.

I use glass tanks for both my BPs, and yes humidity is a challenge, but i love my exo-terra tanks with the front door opening. I found that adding a zoomed repti-fogger to the set up and put them on a timer pretty much solves the problem. I have them fog for 20-30 min every 6 hrs around the clock, and i cover half the screen area with some plexiglass and that does it. My both tanks have styrafoam backgrounds and i use 2 exo-terra rock caves as hides, I always buy hides in pairs so cold and hot side are the same. Also try wetting some spagnum moss and putting it under his hot hide , it will help create a humid hide. I know tubs are simpler, but i love the way my tanks look. It just takes a little more effort to keep my snakes comfortable. Check your temps, I have a very cold house in winter so here heat lamps are a must to keep an ambient temp of 80. You mightt want to try feeding rat pups, he might be striking cause at his weight the mice might not be satisfying for him. Good luck with your new pet.

you're doing the right thing by seeking help and asking questions. The snake is obviously in it's best care of its life so far, but there is a bit of a learning curve. Hang in there... it's hard to get things right from the beginning, but once you get it, things stay pretty consistent.

Males don't normally get as large as females, and I've read where growth can be stunted a little, but I've also read where underfed snakes come around and grow to be the same size as any other adult. In my own personal opinion, I think a lot of it is genetics. Like humans, we're not all the same size, height, weight, and we grow at different rates. There are guidelines out there for growth, but we're all still different. Same with the snakes.

Feeding - if he's around 300 grams, an adult mouse may be on the small side. I would try to switch him to rats, if possible. Either rat pups or weaned rats. He'd probably do fine with weaned, if they are on the smaller size. I like to feed by the 10-15% rule... so I weigh my snake often and make sure her prey is 10-15% of her body weight. I fed every six days until she hit about 800g, now I feed about every 8-10 days. Some weeks, she doesn't take it, so then she goes until the next week. You have to find what works best for you.

Humidity - The towel trick is a great idea. You need a good size bath/beach towel for that. Some other things you can try... go to lowes and ask them to cut you a plexiglass top for your enclosure. If you have lights/heaters on top, make sure they cut openings for those, as the heat could melt the plastic. Maybe put some metal screen over those holes so the snake can't get out, but the heat won't melt anything. That will help keep moisture in. Or, you can wrap the top with plastic wrap or foil. Again, keep away from heat sources for obvious reasons. In addition, I would add more and larger water bowls. that will increase humidity. If you still can't get it in check, fold some paper towels and soak them in water and put them inside the hides. That is a simple way to increase humidity inside the hide where the snake spends most of it's time.

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Originally Posted by Abouse

The tub idea intimidates me as well for some reason.

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Why? ... it will make your snake much more comfortable. Check out the video of my snake room I posted yesterday. All small plastic tubs. All very happy snakes.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Abouse

Ok so I guess we will start with the hides then. We have spent a lot of money on all of this so I would hate to just put him in a tub and everything be wasted.
Any idea on the humidity issue? We live in Colorado so we already have very dry air. I bought a humidifier for the living room where he is at but it hasn't seemed to Help any.

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That's probably because he's in a screened top tank. Just saying. .. at least that's what I'm assuming he's in cuz I can't see your pictures. The tub idea COULD just be a temporary thing. It's to get your snake eating and comfortable. Your tank setup will always be there. But I can almost guarantee you, if you watch my video and see the way I have them set up. They will totally change for you. A snapping snake is a stressed snake. A puppy dog badass eating snakes, is a HAPPY snake. :)


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mangiapane85

That's probably because he's in a screened top tank. Just saying. .. at least that's what I'm assuming he's in cuz I can't see your pictures. The tub idea COULD just be a temporary thing. It's to get your snake eating and comfortable. Your tank setup will always be there. But I can almost guarantee you, if you watch my video and see the way I have them set up. They will totally change for you. A snapping snake is a stressed snake. A puppy dog badass eating snakes, is a HAPPY snake. :)


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Yea it is a screen top. I'll go check out your video now. I figured he was stressed for one reason or other. But at this point I just need help from those who have experience☺ and I'm processing what everyone has told me so far and everything seems like a valid idea. You can only Google so much before you confuse yourself hahah. I really just want him happy so I'll do what has to be done too get there.

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Originally Posted by LittleTreeGuy

you're doing the right thing by seeking help and asking questions. The snake is obviously in it's best care of its life so far, but there is a bit of a learning curve. Hang in there... it's hard to get things right from the beginning, but once you get it, things stay pretty consistent.

Males don't normally get as large as females, and I've read where growth can be stunted a little, but I've also read where underfed snakes come around and grow to be the same size as any other adult. In my own personal opinion, I think a lot of it is genetics. Like humans, we're not all the same size, height, weight, and we grow at different rates. There are guidelines out there for growth, but we're all still different. Same with the snakes.

Feeding - if he's around 300 grams, an adult mouse may be on the small side. I would try to switch him to rats, if possible. Either rat pups or weaned rats. He'd probably do fine with weaned, if they are on the smaller size. I like to feed by the 10-15% rule... so I weigh my snake often and make sure her prey is 10-15% of her body weight. I fed every six days until she hit about 800g, now I feed about every 8-10 days. Some weeks, she doesn't take it, so then she goes until the next week. You have to find what works best for you.

Humidity - The towel trick is a great idea. You need a good size bath/beach towel for that. Some other things you can try... go to lowes and ask them to cut you a plexiglass top for your enclosure. If you have lights/heaters on top, make sure they cut openings for those, as the heat could melt the plastic. Maybe put some metal screen over those holes so the snake can't get out, but the heat won't melt anything. That will help keep moisture in. Or, you can wrap the top with plastic wrap or foil. Again, keep away from heat sources for obvious reasons. In addition, I would add more and larger water bowls. that will increase humidity. If you still can't get it in check, fold some paper towels and soak them in water and put them inside the hides. That is a simple way to increase humidity inside the hide where the snake spends most of it's time.

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It's a lot to learn that's for sure. I'm going to put a towel on now and hope that gets him some humidity.
I'm not worried about his size we just really wanted a bp and when they told us his story we decided to go with him over all the others. I wanted to give him a good life so that's the goal. As long as he's happy and healthy I don't mind if he stays the size he is now. When he s not stressed or whatever's going on he's a really chill little guy. You can pretty much do anything and he will just hangout so that's why my concerns have come up from the sudden attitude of you will.

Tomorrows feeding day so I will be grabbing him some little rat pups tomorrow and see if that helps him out a bit. I do like the 10-15% idea that seems like that will help me stay on track of how much /what he needs.

Is there substrate that hold moisture better than others? We had repti bark in there then another pet store told me that was to dry for a bp...? But I have seen a lot of people use it... So idk They recommended gorilla hair from home depot which we got but doesn't seem to Help any it's just softer than the repti bark

The problem with misting is that while the moisture you do introduce evaporates right away (since it's in little droplets all over the place) and increases the humidity quickly, but you aren't actually introducing very much total, so it doesn't last. Basically, the total amount of water in a few squirts of a spray bottle is not very much.

There are basically two ways to raise humidity: reduce the amount of ventilation by which humid air leaves, and increase the amount of surface area from which water can evaporate.
Putting a towel over the top is better than nothing, but a towel is permeable. So it's not going to be as good as aluminum foil, sheet of plastic, etc. Cover the entire lid with foil, except for whatever opening you need for heat lamps if you have them. (For that matter, that's really the problem with heat lamps - you have a big hole that the hot air is rising out of and taking the humidity with it.)
Then put something inside that water can evaporate off of over time, in larger amounts than the total amount introduced when you mist. A bowl of water with a bunched up paper towel sticking out of it will let the water evaporate faster than just the bowl of water by itself, because the towel effectively increases the surface area off of which the water can evaporate. A pile of damp sphagnum moss will help, or a damp sponge sitting in a dish of water, etc.
There are substrates that hold moisture better, too. Eco earth, coco fiber, etc, are all good for that. Over time they will still dry out though, so you will still have to "water" them. Live plants are also good for humidity, because they lose moisture through their leaves and also the soil holds moisture and lets it dry out slowly.
Incidentally, you don't have to use the same substrate everywhere. You can mix in some of a different kind, or make a humid hide that's stuffed with moss or is dug into a pile of eco earth or similar.

I was going to suggest switching to rats too. They are nutritionally whole, whereas mice are not.

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Originally Posted by Yzmasmom

I was going to suggest switching to rats too. They are nutritionally whole, whereas mice are not.

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Is that true though ?

I'm sure I read somewhere just recently that they are the SAME value nutritionally BUT rats have a higher fat content so they're helpful and indeed popular with breeder wanting to get some weight on their snakes.

As regards substrates , orchid bark holds moisture better than most , looks fabulous and let's your snakes stand out unless it's a dark coloured one .

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Originally Posted by Yzmasmom

I was going to suggest switching to rats too. They are nutritionally whole, whereas mice are not.

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Not.....
The major difference is one rat to multiple mice but gram per gram there isn't much difference.
Feed what your animal will eat.

You have gotten a ton of info here so im not going to really add to it and get things even more convoluted. Just two comments 1. My humidity has been leaps and bounds better since i switched to coconut husk for bedding. I only mist it every couple days and im good to go. Of course i dont have screen tops even tho i use plexiglass tanks. 2. You dont need to put your snake in a tub to get him to be less stressed and feeding. While i think tubs are great for large operations and higher number of snakes, and yes they do well for the snakes as they are secure and confining, the average BP owner is looking for an aesthetic aspect as well and tubs are useless for that. Your enclosure is big for him but i think if you dial in your temps and fix those hides you should be fine. I use those reptile basics ones and i think thats the best way to go. Very small opening and tight on all sides for the snake. Lastly pet store people are useless. At least for snakes.

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Oh my thank you all for the help. I put a larger wet towel on top of the tank last night it's been holding around 50% since then. Which is great because it was going from 50 to 20% within a few hours, so that is definitely working better than what we had going.( I had some plastic wrap on top. ) next step today it getting some new hides and getting him some little rats everyone suggested. And probably some new bedding and hope this guy gets to being a happy.I 1st least have pretty consistent information now so I hope we can master this now. I will also be adding some move vines/leaves/plants around so he has a bit more coverage around the sides and top.