Weird Behavior - Nibbles

I had him out while I wait for his meal to thaw... and so he is snuggled up on my chest like normal, then he starts moving around. He starts touching his face with his snoot, and I had to close my eye because he poked it.

When I open it again he has his mouth open against my cheek. Not biting down at all, but just like that.

Obviously I move him away from my face, thinking he might be hungry. He does the exact same thing with my finger.

No striking. No coiling. He just opened his mouth and just lazily poked my finger with his snoot. This particular instance resulted in my rather tiny finger actually going between his jaws and his teeth caught on my skin a bit, but again, he didn't bite down and backed of a moment and did it again.

Even though I think this is adorable and it is making me laugh, it's a very strange behavior I can't explain. And it could be some underlying reason. I'm going to see if I can get a video of it and post it, but I'm not sure if he will do it again.


Herp Derp

He took the mouse with a very heavy food strike, so I'm wondering if he was anticipating the meal and that was a snake's equivalent of salivating?

(As far as unintentional and uncontrollable reflexes go.)


Herp Derp

I would watch that behavior - it could indicate a respiratory infection. In my experience, ball pythons don't hold their mouth open in that manner unless they are having difficulty breathing through their nose. Since they are unable to cough (no diaphram), they will from time to time open their mouths slightly to breath better.

Given all the handling it seems that he gets, stress and no consistent temps (in and out of the enclosure often) often contribute to respiratory infections.

Maybe he smelled dinner and was trying to see if you'd fit in his mouth?

A partially opened mouth when snake mouths should not be open (aka not yawning or eating) usually means respiratory infection.

Watch out for things like wheezing/clicking noises while breathing and mucus in/around his mouth. Maybe not so much handling, if he does have a respiratory infection, stress is only going to make it worse.

Not hijack, but holding them can cause a RI? from being out of the temps? Now I'm afraid to hold mine! we do 3-4 times a week for maybe half an hour. (bit longer when cleaning tank.)

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Originally Posted by Yzmasmom

Not hijack, but holding them can cause a RI? from being out of the temps? Now I'm afraid to hold mine! we do 3-4 times a week for maybe half an hour. (bit longer when cleaning tank.)

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Not just holding, you can hold! It's caused by too low temps for too long, too high humidity with too little air flow, or too low humidity. Maybe combined with too frequent or too lengthy handling (maybe the environment outside the enclosure isn't as suitable), causes stress, which causes a poor immune system, which makes the animal more susceptible to infections or illness than it was before. Like people and other animals, stress worsens the immune system too. So it could be a combo of these things, all of these things, or just one...

KingWheatley's snake isn't a for sure respiratory infection yet since we're just talking online, but it sounds likely? Just watch for his mouth staying open again like that, bubbles in his mouth, any audible sounds when breathing, and will need a vet if those.

I increased the heat in his tank and checked his mouth. His gums are light pink and I don't see any bubbling. However I do hear clicking when I hold his nose close to my ear.... but I have to be very close. Maybe at my friend's house he was in lower temps. Or the event when he got lost is catching up on him? Would RI take that long to set in?


Herp Derp

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Originally Posted by KingWheatley

I increased the heat in his tank and checked his mouth. His gums are light pink and I don't see any bubbling. However I do hear clicking when I hold his nose close to my ear.... but I have to be very close. Maybe at my friend's house he was in lower temps. Or the event when he got lost is catching up on him? Would RI take that long to set in?


Herp Derp

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Yes it can, or it could be he's had one, but now it's progressing where you are finally seeing symptoms. From what I've read of his adventures since you got him, he's had a pretty stressful first few months. That stress, as well as what seems to be excessive handling, can certainly contribute to the onset of a RI.

Since you can hear a little clicking now too, very sure it is RI. He's not in an advanced state, so the other symptoms might not be showing up yet or aren't obvious. It's good to find out now than later though.

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Originally Posted by redshepherd

Since you can hear a little clicking now too, very sure it is RI. He's not in an advanced state, so the other symptoms might not be showing up yet or aren't obvious. It's good to find out now than later though.

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Agreed.

Is there any "at home" remedies or is this something that can only be solved with antibiotics?


Herp Derp

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Originally Posted by KingWheatley

Agreed.

Is there any "at home" remedies or is this something that can only be solved with antibiotics?


Herp Derp

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If my snake were showing symptoms of RI, I would bring to a good vet, one that will do a culture. RI's can be viral or bacterial (or fungal or parasitic, but less likely) and there's no way to know for sure except to culture. You don't want to start a treatment/antibiotic without knowing the kind of infection, since it can potentially do more harm than good.
I wouldn't go to a vet that wants to prescribe antibiotics without doing a culture.

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Originally Posted by redshepherd

If my snake were showing symptoms of RI, I would bring to a good vet, one that will do a culture. RI's can be viral or bacterial (or fungal or parasitic, but less likely) and there's no way to know for sure except to culture.
I wouldn't go to a vet that wants to prescribe antibiotics without doing a culture.

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My concern is funds. I barely made the vet bill before and my roommate covered the costs afterwords. To which I used to pay bills already.

I just did a close inspection of him. Double checked his mouth. Double checked for clicking noises. He still appears healthy. (Although he has a dent in his eye... how the heck did that happen??) the clicking is very very VERY quiet. And when I was checking his mouth, it wasn't clicking when the little hole opened.

So I'm beginning to wonder if the sound is coming from somewhere else...? Could it be coming from his esophagus or his tongue sheath?


Herp Derp

In my opinion, this is one of those "don't try this at home, kids" situations. RIs are nothing to mess around with and can lead to your pet's death, as others have stated. Having just lost our beloved BP, Wintre, (not to an RI) I can tell you that the pain of losing an animal you care for, as deeply as you care about Wheatley/Cookie, is so hard.

I understand from your other posts that you are very budget-conscious, but I offer you some food for thought: if you wait and try to treat by yourself at home, you may be delaying vet care and medicine that you will ultimately need to pay for and the RI may be much more severe/deadly at that point. Also, I wholeheartedly agree with RedShepherd on getting cultures to determine cause and therefore treatment. You want to make sure that the antibiotics you use are targeting the right problem.

I'm sorry to come across so Doomsday-y, but please heed others' advice and take Wheatley to your vet. This is not akin to a cold in humans or warm-blooded animals and its effects are far more serious.

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Originally Posted by KingWheatley

My concern is funds. I barely made the vet bill before and my roommate covered the costs afterwords. To which I used to pay bills already.

I just did a close inspection of him. Double checked his mouth. Double checked for clicking noises. He still appears healthy. (Although he has a dent in his eye... how the heck did that happen??) the clicking is very very VERY quiet. And when I was checking his mouth, it wasn't clicking when the little hole opened.

So I'm beginning to wonder if the sound is coming from somewhere else...? Could it be coming from his esophagus or his tongue sheath?


Herp Derp

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Ultimately, it's your judgment, since I can't see Wheatley from here. But if it is RI and you wait it out, it may develop into a more advanced state, and would be more serious to treat.

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Originally Posted by redshepherd

Ultimately, it's your judgment, since I can't see Wheatley from here. But if it is RI and you wait it out, it may develop into a more advanced state, and would be more serious to treat.

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I'm not trying to wait it out on purpose. But I have to wait until payday for anything right now.


Herp Derp

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BeksNY

In my opinion, this is one of those "don't try this at home, kids" situations. RIs are nothing to mess around with and can lead to your pet's death, as others have stated. Having just lost our beloved BP, Wintre, (not to an RI) I can tell you that the pain of losing an animal you care for, as deeply as you care about Wheatley/Cookie, is so hard.

I understand from your other posts that you are very budget-conscious, but I offer you some food for thought: if you wait and try to treat by yourself at home, you may be delaying vet care and medicine that you will ultimately need to pay for and the RI may be much more severe/deadly at that point. Also, I wholeheartedly agree with RedShepherd on getting cultures to determine cause and therefore treatment. You want to make sure that the antibiotics you use are targeting the right problem.

I'm sorry to come across so Doomsday-y, but please heed others' advice and take Wheatley to your vet. This is not akin to a cold in humans or warm-blooded animals and its effects are far more serious.

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Not at all arguing with you.

But I don't appreciate the accusation that I am ignoring advice about going to the vet. Vet costs are EXPENSIVE. $300-$500 for cultures and what not for a cat. I can't imagine it's much different for any other animal.

Unfortunately, this is a big case of "I was told Snakes are a cheaper pet" and was stupid.

I can afford Cookie, if we ignore vet bills and initial costs, and if I wasn't in a loop I'd be able to afford his vet bills. But because I'm in this loop due to a situation outside of my control, I am finding it very difficult to simply go to the vet.

(I've been trying to live without any unnecessary loans. My Car loan is the only one I have and it's eating me alive... but as I've stubbornly had to admit and find out... living in the middle class of society is hard without loans... I may have to suck it up and get one....)


Herp Derp

And to be 100% clear.

I WANT to go to the vet again. He was given a "good to go" by the vet not even a couple weeks ago and that was a very hefty bill. I don't know if they did cultures, to be honest, but it was approx $110. So I doubt they did.

Now... Let's say in-between now and payday, because I didn't take Cookie to the vet right away, he died.

Would it be my fault? Sure. Could I have done something to avoid it? Yea. For sure. Will I blame myself? Of course. Can I do something about it right this second? Pray. That's it at the moment.


Herp Derp

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Originally Posted by KingWheatley

Not at all arguing with you.

But I don't appreciate the accusation that I am ignoring advice about going to the vet. Vet costs are EXPENSIVE. $300-$500 for cultures and what not for a cat. I can't imagine it's much different for any other animal.

Unfortunately, this is a big case of "I was told Snakes are a cheaper pet" and was stupid.

I can afford Cookie, if we ignore vet bills and initial costs, and if I wasn't in a loop I'd be able to afford his vet bills. But because I'm in this loop due to a situation outside of my control, I am finding it very difficult to simply go to the vet.

(I've been trying to live without any unnecessary loans. My Car loan is the only one I have and it's eating me alive... but as I've stubbornly had to admit and find out... living in the middle class of society is hard without loans... I may have to suck it up and get one....)


Herp Derp

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Have you considered setting up a gofundme? I am in a similar situation if my snake got sick so I understand your position. Do they accept payments? If so maybe you could take your snake in and post a copy of the receipt then a link to a gofundme and people would help out. I for one would kick down something, wouldn't be much unfortunately because again I'm in the same boat but I'd rather kick down a few bucks than see your guy suffer.

Open mouth and clicking? Not good...

Apply for care credit. Most vets nowadays accept them. It has a much lower interest rate then regular credit cards.

You may also want to look into health insurance coverage for the future. I have my snakes and other exotics covered through Nationwide.

Or perhaps you should really put some realistic thought into whether or not a snake or any pet really is right for you at this time in your life.

You mentioned an eye dent. Usually that's a humidity issue but with the tiny clicks heard, I'm wondering - is he simply going to shed?

Seems pricey for a simple checkup? The vet I talked to (Trusted around town very fondly. The local pet stores take all their reptiles to him.) only charges $45 for a reptile checkup.

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Originally Posted by AbsoluteApril

You mentioned an eye dent. Usually that's a humidity issue but with the tiny clicks heard, I'm wondering - is he simply going to shed?

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I don't think so. Not unless he's going to shed two weeks after his last one. I mean he is still a baby, and he did have a major growth spurt since I got him. So it's possible.

Also... I might consider that he may have some shed stuck in his nose?

Especially since I don't hear clicking noises when I opened his mouth. It's only ever when his mouth is closed...


Do snakes even get boogers?


Herp Derp

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RiA MaU

Seems pricey for a simple checkup? The vet I talked to (Trusted around town very fondly. The local pet stores take all their reptiles to him.) only charges $45 for a reptile checkup.

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Might be because the only Herp vet around here is an animal hospital guy? Idk. Maybe $110 included cultures?


Herp Derp

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Originally Posted by Bennie1986

Have you considered setting up a gofundme? I am in a similar situation if my snake got sick so I understand your position. Do they accept payments? If so maybe you could take your snake in and post a copy of the receipt then a link to a gofundme and people would help out. I for one would kick down something, wouldn't be much unfortunately because again I'm in the same boat but I'd rather kick down a few bucks than see your guy suffer.

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Actually I haven't. Usually when people set those up they get ignored because of prior inappropriate use by other people.

That and I don't really like mooching off other people....


Herp Derp

Snakes do not get boogers, sometimes some shed will get stuck on the snakes nose causing a clicking sound.

About the 'snakes are cheaper' subject. Absolutely not. They're considered an exotic pet, so you can't just pop into the nearest animal clinic to get it treated like you can with a cat or a dog. It can be hard to find an exotic vet and even harder to find one that is very good and trustworthy. Karma's vet is an hour and 30 minutes from where I live, but its worth it. Overall owning an exotic pet is hard work sometimes, I only have one pet that's considered 'common'.

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Originally Posted by PythonBabes

Snakes do not get boogers, sometimes some shed will get stuck on the snakes nose causing a clicking sound.

About the 'snakes are cheaper' subject. Absolutely not. They're considered an exotic pet, so you can't just pop into the nearest animal clinic to get it treated like you can with a cat or a dog. It can be hard to find an exotic vet and even harder to find one that is very good and trustworthy. Karma's vet is an hour and 30 minutes from where I live, but its worth it. Overall owning an exotic pet is hard work sometimes, I only have one pet that's considered 'common'.

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So I have discovered. But I don't regret getting him.


Herp Derp