How long to wait to breed after first breeding?

Im talking to a breeder who has a snake available that laid this year and she gained all her weight back. Is there a set time after she lays to breed again or now that she gained her weight back she can breed again?

Anyone?

Everyone does it differently but personally I like for my females to have rain all their weight back + some and have six months between egg laying and pairing.

Now a few things about buying adults and of proven breeders, they will often go off feed for you upon arrival, that's pretty common, personally a new female that does not eat will not be paired until the following season.

There is also the matter of quarentine, even if the female eat, she will be quarantined for 90 days before being paired to any of my animals.

Consider this:

"The fact is that males will breed females in the wild regardless of their size, weight, age, etc. There is no harm in this, its doesn’t hurt the female at all. Her body knows if the timing is right and whether she can healthfully produce eggs. Thousands of years of self preservation instinct is way more reliable than your or my opinion on the topic. When hobbyists argue how young you can breed a female, they lack the knowledge that a female will likely bred nearly every year of their life in the wild. Pythons are not like mammals where an egg is released / fertilized (internally involuntary). A BP female’s body has to actively develop follicles for up to months prior to ovulation. The body can reverse this process at any time prior to ovulation with no harm. If a female begins to absorb her follicles, there is nothing that I as a breeder can do to change that."

https://jkrballstreetjournal.com/201...e-ball-python/

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Originally Posted by Macropodus

Consider this:

"The fact is that males will breed females in the wild regardless of their size, weight, age, etc. There is no harm in this, its doesn’t hurt the female at all. Her body knows if the timing is right and whether she can healthfully produce eggs. Thousands of years of self preservation instinct is way more reliable than your or my opinion on the topic. When hobbyists argue how young you can breed a female, they lack the knowledge that a female will likely bred nearly every year of their life in the wild. Pythons are not like mammals where an egg is released / fertilized (internally involuntary). A BP female’s body has to actively develop follicles for up to months prior to ovulation. The body can reverse this process at any time prior to ovulation with no harm. If a female begins to absorb her follicles, there is nothing that I as a breeder can do to change that."

https://jkrballstreetjournal.com/201...e-ball-python/

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I know that article, and I know Justin personally, I think the difference between you and me is how I interpret that article based on my experience and not what I want to hear to justify what I want to do.

While I agree with this article this is also where COMMON SENSE and EXPERIENCE comes into play, I have no idea what YOUR experience is with breeding.

Sadly because it’s done in the wild or can be done does not mean it should be done in captivity or that it is it the best. In captivity with have an obligation toward those animals to give them OPTIMUM living and breeding conditions, that’s why we have quarantine, why people use an incubator, that’s why people pay attention to signs when pairing so they don’t over breed their animals (which can kill them), that’s why some people cut their eggs, that’s why people feed their animals the way they do. That’s why those animals live longer in captivity.

Without the common sense and experience you end up with people in a rush to breed a 800 grams female that’s a year old (because after all it’s done in the wild) sadly that does not benefit the animal that benefits the owners (well so they think because all they care about is a quick return on their money). Without common sense and experience you get people who buy a proven breeder bypass quarantine to pair that female immediately and end up losing their entire collection (after all no quarantine in the wild). I can tell you no REPUTABLE breeder would do either of those things.

You can ask any respectable breeder they will all tell you that they like their female to grow slow and with consistency, to be mature and big as possible before their first pairing, they also like for them to bounce back before pairing them again for a new season and will even refuse to breed them if they have not. Now there are female being bred small but again that’s based on experience and circumstances. (off topic)

Again big difference between what can be done because it happens in the wild and what should be done in captivity.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

... the difference between you and me is how I interpret that article based on my experience and not what I want to hear to justify what I want to do...

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Are you confusing me with the OP? I don't have an agenda here, I'm not justifying anything. It's an article I had read which happens to be in similar vein to the OP's concern. If you don't like it then don't read it.

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Originally Posted by Macropodus

Are you confusing me with the OP? I don't have an agenda here, I'm not justifying anything. It's an article I had read which happens to be in similar vein to the OP's concern. If you don't like it then don't read it.

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If that's all you got from what I wrote than OK :rolleyes:

Let me try again it's an article (YOU posted) that needs to be taken with a grain of salt and interpreted, regurgitating what you read is fine being able to understand and use common sense and elaborate based on experience is a bit different.

What I got from you wrote is that you are insecure in regards to view points which are not precisely aligned with your own. That's what I got. Particularly your usage of caps with "COMMON SENSE and EXPERIENCE and YOU" which is considered yelling. Even members who are not moderators know this.

Not all breeders out there espouse Deborah's views. If you find that unsettling then please consider skipping over future posts of mine as I will not vet links prior to pasting them in order to ensure your safe space remains unviolated. I'm not your yes man. Feel free to ban me now if you find this unacceptable.

I love posts and replies like this because it shows that no matter how much info is out there and how many questions you ask its still going to come down to your personal experience and finding the best method for you lol. It makes me excited to start my breeding experience, reading my snakes and finding what works. Deborah i think your spot on tho in that as these animals are in captivity and in our care we need to focus on putting them in the optimal conditions possible for success not just simply whatever gets the job done.

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Breeder said she laid in late may and is now back up to size. Im not one of those people that is in it for the money and am not in a rush at all, just wanted to know if she'd be ready for this coming season.

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Originally Posted by highqualityballz

Breeder said she laid in late may and is now back up to size. Im not one of those people that is in it for the money and am not in a rush at all, just wanted to know if she'd be ready for this coming season.

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I would pair her but not before strict quarantine.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

I would pair her but not before strict quarantine.

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Can quarantine be dont in the same room but different rack as rest of the snakes? Is quarantine 100% necessary, not gonna lie ive never quarantined before?

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Originally Posted by highqualityballz

Can quarantine be dont in the same room but different rack as rest of the snakes? Is quarantine 100% necessary, not gonna lie ive never quarantined before?

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Do you value your collection? That will answer whether or not quarantine is necessary.

While many people will not report that they have lost part of their collection or their entire collection because of failure to properly quarantine I know some people who have (one of them thinking what are the chances and that it would not happen to them) and here is a story that may make you change your mind http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...d.php?t=220629, prime example of being in a rush wanting to breed soon as possible and bypassing quarantine.

Personally I have invested too many years, too much money and I value my animal way to much to take a risk and bypass quarantine, ultimately YOUR choice.

I agree with OtorresUSMC in that no matter how much info is out there, people will pick and choose what to believe and which fact/opinion works best for them. Even reading 2 highly different opinions here, I still got something out of BOTH and will add that to my think tank for the next time I need some info on this subject. Speaking of 'in the wild' there is a huge argument that goes (who even knows how far back), about maternal incubation vs. technology. No matter what FACTS you have on the subject, there are just as many FACTS backing the other side of the argument, so in turn it all boils down to what's best for each individual (hopefully with the animals best well being in mind). In the wild they do breed and thrive, but also many die (young and old) due to disease, rodent bites & infection, etc., things which CAN be highly prevented in captivity. In my home I cannot afford to lose snakes due to things which can be prevented.

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Originally Posted by Macropodus

What I got from you wrote is that you are insecure in regards to view points which are not precisely aligned with your own. That's what I got. Particularly your usage of caps with "COMMON SENSE and EXPERIENCE and YOU" which is considered yelling. Even members who are not moderators know this.

Not all breeders out there espouse Deborah's views. If you find that unsettling then please consider skipping over future posts of mine as I will not vet links prior to pasting them in order to ensure your safe space remains unviolated. I'm not your yes man. Feel free to ban me now if you find this unacceptable.

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Not trying to "get involved in a 'fight'", but I will interject a few things from a neutral point of view.

First, I don't think Deborah was trying to belittle, demean or discredit anything you posted... the problem with forums, and trying to "chat" online like this, is there is no timbre possible, so while I read her post one way, you obviously took it a different way. I don't think she meant it the way you received it.

Second, and related to the point above, while CAPS can be used as yelling, it is commonly understood that if you are only capitalizing one or two words, it is more for emphasis, and not to "yell". There is a difference between typing "NEVER do that" (adding emphasis to the single word never) and typing "NEVER DO THAT" which is more of what I read as yelling. The rule of thumb I have tried my best to use when conversing online, is if it can be read two different ways, they USUALLY meant it the way that was non-offensive. (again, emphasis... not yelling). The logic behind this mentality, is that you and I don't actually know each other. If I want to be offensive, I can hide behind my firewall of anonymity and be as offensive as I want... so anything that is "borderline" is usually me misreading something. Just my .02¢

Back on topic, I knew a lady who had 1.1 normal ball pythons in the same tank year-round. Her female would lay eggs every year, she would take them to the local reptile shop and sell them for $5-10 per egg... and walk away. Does that mean that I, personally, would do that? Nope... but I'm not saying it's not totally possible.

This is why generally i will use quotation marks instead of caps. Gets your emphasis without the appearance of yelling 😆 but that is neither here nor there with this post. I think we as human beings sometimes tend to over think things. Then at the other end of the spectrum there are people who act haphazardly. The take away from that is that old addage (spelling??) Of there is more than one way to skin a cat. Its up to each individual person to decide if they want whats easiest or best for them or whats best for the animal. My advice would be this, pay attention to your animals. If they are healthy and exhibiting normal behavior than carry on. If on the other hand they are showing some aberrant pattern then step back and reevaluate. While breeding may not be an "exact"(quotes no caps haha) science it is still science (biology i think 🤔) and as such methods can be refined for optimum success. Because we have taken these animals into our care this should be every breeders goal and commitment in my opinion. Just my soap box moment.

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