How long till first feed takes place?

Hi All

I'm new here and have been lurking a while before we got our python to find out more about them, so I know feeding problems are quite commo for them. I've been checking over old posts on here but one thing I can't find is how long after they arrive home should they start feeding?

We bought our baby on Monday (she's about 1 1/2 to 2 ft long and 12 weeks old). They let us hold her in the shop when we looked at her the week previously and she was (still is) all action and movement - no signs of stress or balling. When picked her up they said she was feeding OK - but of course now she won't eat. We bought a little frozen mouse at the same time and was going to wait till the next day to feed - but as it had defrosted by the time we got home we offered it that evening.

What we did next was wrong - we know that now - but as she was so fearless and wanting out we let her out for probably 1/2 hour at a time that evening (offering her the mouse which was ignored), and again the following couple days she loves being out and exploring and interacting with her humans. But I guess we shouldn't have so yesterday I decided she was to stay in and not be handled considered she hadn't fed. She now stay in until she has fed and then we'll leave her for the 24-48 hours till it's digested.

She is housed in the small plastic container recommended to us with under cage heating one end - temps are a perfect 80(cool) and 90 (warm) with humidity up at 60%. Her hide is up the hot end and her water bowl down the cool end. The cage is in my 17-year old daughter's room (it's her snake) which is quiet with no loud music and traffic going through it.

We've tried waving the mouse around, and just leaving it there with her outside her hide last night. It's still there this morning :(

I guess I really worry about the non-feeding and don't really like the idea of force feeding. I've heard they love and can become addicted to gerbils - but the problem in the UK is getting them I think - but are they suitable or too fatty or anything? It's not as though she's used to live food as it's apparently banned in the UK and she was brought up on frozen/thawed anyway.

So I wonder how long it should take now for her to start feeding and how long I should wait before taking her for force feeding (but I really hate that idea).

Thanks for reading my ramblings so far.

Sue

with Jap Spitz Dog Bobby, Charlie the Hormonal Black Headed Caique, Beady the Bearded Dragon and now Emily the BP

Don't force feed - you needn't even consider that.

Give the new arrival a full week undisturbed (change water though) to settle in before attempting the feed.

when i brought my new BP home last friday i left her alone untill the next evening. she seemed to aclimatize to her new surroundings and was not timid when i entered the cage to change water so i introduced her first meal and it wasnt 2 or 3 minutes and she took it. "Knock on Wood" but i have had great luck so far with my new BP and i am planning on giving her another meal tonight. good luck with yours, i am sure it is still getting used to its soroundings and just give her some time.

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Originally Posted by Razaiel

I've been checking over old posts on here but one thing I can't find is how long after they arrive home should they start feeding?

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At least a week, I like to wait 2.

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Originally Posted by Razaiel

We bought our baby on Monday (she's about 1 1/2 to 2 ft long and 12 weeks old).

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She really needs a lot more time to settle in and feel secure before shes offered food.

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Originally Posted by Razaiel

We bought a little frozen mouse at the same time

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Is that what they said she was eating at the pet shop? How were they feeding her? You should start out feeding her the same way, because that's what shes used to.

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Originally Posted by Razaiel

but as she was so fearless and wanting out we let her out for probably 1/2 hour at a time that evening (offering her the mouse which was ignored), and again the following couple days she loves being out and exploring and interacting with her humans.

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Actually the "loves being out thing and exploring" is more of a "flight" response seen in animals that are stressed. She's not being fearless, she's just trying to get somewhere safe. At this point she doesn't know you or her new surroundings and is a little freaked out.

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Originally Posted by Razaiel

She is housed in the small plastic container recommended to us with under cage heating one end - temps are a perfect 80(cool) and 90 (warm)

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Personally, I like to have my temps a couple of degrees higher on each side. That way is the room temps get a little cool, your cages cool side still remains above 80.

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Originally Posted by Razaiel

Her hide is up the hot end ....

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Only one hide? She should have one on each end so that she's not forced to choose between security and thermoregulation.

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Originally Posted by Razaiel

We've tried waving the mouse around, and just leaving it there with her outside her hide last night. It's still there this morning :(

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Ball pythons can go long periods of time without food. Don't expect her to eat at all until shes settled in and feeling secure.

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Originally Posted by Razaiel

I guess I really worry about the non-feeding and don't really like the idea of force feeding.

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It's only been a couple of days ... if you think this is "non-feeding" just wait. Ball pythons can go many many months without food. Also, there is NEVER any reason to force feed a ball python. Fix your husbandry issues and wait, eventually she will eat.

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Originally Posted by Razaiel

I've heard they love and can become addicted to gerbils - but the problem in the UK is getting them I think - but are they suitable or too fatty or anything?

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If she was eating mice or rats at the pet shop there is no reason to EVER feed her a gerbil. She's not refusing food because of the "type" of rodent it is, she refusing food because she doesn't feel secure enough to eat yet.

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Originally Posted by Razaiel

So I wonder how long it should take now for her to start feeding and how long I should wait before taking her for force feeding (but I really hate that idea).

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It could take several weeks before her first meal. Don't ever force feed her. Talk to the store you got her from and find out how they were feeding her and mimic that.

Good luck!!!

-adam

Ditto everything Adam said LOL. Also you might try his trick with balled up newspaper in the tub to add even more security for the snake and most definitely two hides....one on the warm side...one on the cool side.

Once you have the extra hide and temps and humidity bang on and so forth....just leave the snake totally alone except to change water and fast check for any feces/urates. From everything we've been told a week or so is about right after any major change in the snake's environment before you can expect it to settle in enough to eat.

We feed in the evenings in low light conditions. We don't remove the snake to a seperate feeding tub but some do. We feel moving her is too disruptive and I don't like to handle our young snake at all after she eats (48 hours hands off is our rule).

Just make sure to offer a fully warmed up prey (no frozen areas) head first to the snake and wiggle it like it's still alive (zombie mouse dance LOL)....a couple of good wiggles and a hungry snake will hit harder and faster than you can believe. Make sure to use tongs or something, never your bare hands.

Good luck and be patient. As they say a warm snake is a happy snake and happy snakes eventually eat.


~~Joanna~~

i also placed balled up paper balls in my cage and i noticed that my BP seemed to stay out amongst the paper balls more than she/he stayed in her hides. its worth a try.

I would find out what and how often her last owners were feeding her, also she might need time to get use to her new surroundings. A snake that big might not eat but once as month or even less than that. Try feeding her and if she doesnt eat dont sweat it ball pythons have been known to not eat for months at a time. Dont worry:)

Thanks very much for all your replies - this is a great board!!

We are adjusting the temps now so they'll reach 82-83 and 92-93 (anything over 95 is too hot, right?) It's so difficult to get the temps just right in such a small enclosure - our beardie has a 4ft vivarium with ceramic heater and spots - it's just soooo easy.

BP now has another hide in her cool end - there seems hardly any room to move inside the enclosure as a whole - but I think they like the security of that don't they? She also has some rolled up newspaper balls.

We removed her this morning for a minute or two to replace her newspaper etc then popped her back in again. She's pretty active in there - she sleeps in her hide in the day and is prowling around flicking her tongue when she's awake.

I wonder what you guys do with the under tank heating mat - the reptile shop said at the moment they switch off the mats during the day and switch them on again in the evening giving a 12 hours on 12 hours off. That's not so bad at the moment here in the UK we've been having pretty hot weather - but I wondered what you all normally do as I think when the temps drop here it'll need to be kept on 24/7.

We're going to hold off feeding for a bit - it doesn't really worry me that much now I know they go for a while - beardies are exactly the same - I swear sometimes ours lives on thin air.

She doesn't seem at all phased by us going into her enclosure - she carries on doing whatever she's doing - never rolling into a defensive ball - if anything she looks hopeful at coming out. LOL

Sue

Sounds like a great snake Sue. Ours is like that too. We've never seen that defensive ball action and it's always comfortable with handling (tho we keep it reasonably short each time).

Our UTH has a high, med, low setting so we do check it in the morning and before bed and sometimes adjust it to keep in the desired range (no night drop). We are looking at a thermostats from Matt at MGReptiles. He posts here as justcage and is a super person to ask anything about heating from. We are going to go to a rack system as well as we get more snakes as we just won't have enough flat surfaces eventually for all the sterlite tubs LOL so Matt will be the man for flexwatt for heating the racked tubs.

http://www.mgreptiles.com/thermomain.html

Hope this helps.


~~Jo~~

P.S. Oh just saw you are in the UK so don't know if Matt ships over there but I know he's the greatest guy to advise you and his site is super for seeing stuff....he even has one page that compares different brands of thermostats as far as what they do for what they cost (thank you thank you Matt that one really helped us choose!)

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

Sounds like a great snake Sue. Ours is like that too. We've never seen that defensive ball action and it's always comfortable with handling

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The olny time She balled up was when i brought her home and laid her down.
And when i got her my question was the same and she said about 1-2 weeks to good luck on first feed, and im going to present her first meal this thurs day wish me luck!

Oh yes - definitely good luck with the first feed - we'll probably do ours Monday/Tuesday. She should be starving by then.

Our heat mat is just a normal one - still having some trouble with it - hot end is now fine but cool end is not high enough - have raised it up on wooden blocks so air will circulate more hopefully and be able to get to the cool end. If we still have trouble with it i'll get a thermostatically controlled one.

Do you leave your heatmats on all day?

Yep, we just fiddle with it if need be but we don't turn it off. We definitely need a thermostat from Matt LOL.


~~Jo~~

I'm going to find out what I can get in the UK - this heat mat drives me mad - first it's too hot then it's not hot enough. The humidity seems as bad - it was up to 55-60 yesterday and this morning it is down to 40! Time to get a digital for both thermos and humidity guages I think.

It's really my 17 year old daughter's snake but I have so fallen in love with her I want to do whatever's best for her - I made her a new hide today for her hot end - we had a store bought one that she never seemed to like much so I just cut up a smallish box and cut an entrance way in it and she went into it almost as soon as I put it there - so much for spending money on flashy ones :P

Just got to get her really settled now so I can offer her a mouse ...

LOL exactly! It's not like they have home designers in the wild. Seems like simple is best (and far cheaper) in the end with these snakes. After learning so much from this site we have yet to spend much of anything in a regular pet store and have gotten our snake's stuff from department stores, super stores and good old DIY stores. Seems like anything marked "reptile" is jacked up in prices enormously.

Just keep a good eye on that cardboard box in case the snake messes in her hide and it gets dampish. Our snake has been known to drop a feces in her hide (then used her other hide till we cleaned up her mess LOL) so it can get a bit messy and stinky.


~~Jo~~

She fed today!!! She had an extra long sleep today and we scarce waited till she came out of her hide to offer the mouse. This time we put it in really hot water (not boiling) to warm up, did the pierce the brain trick and she did one or two practise strikes then nabbed it. Went in tail first (I thought it should have gone in head first but guess that's OK).

We've now left her strictly alone and covered her up - last seen the mouse was a third of the way down. One thing I was wondering was should we make sure she stays in her hot end overnight (i.e. take out the cool end hide) so she digests it better?

Leave everything the way it is now. Your snake knows when to selfregulate its own temperture and taking something out will just stress your snake. Congrats on the feeding

Excellent about that feeding! Our snake usually messes about with her mousey meal so she can swallow it head first so I don't know about the butt first approach but I'm sure someone here that's more experienced will comment on that. We watched her a few weeks ago dragging her meal around by it's tail after she'd "killed it" (it's pre-killed but hey why shouldn't she have her fun LOL). She finally got it positioned the way she liked it and down it went.

Ditto what Daniel said....once she's eaten don't mess with her or her environment at all for a good 2 days (other than a fast discrete water change maybe). The snake knows what it needs as far as temps for digestion. As long as you've provided an environment with the right temps and hides it will move where it needs to.

Isn't it a great feeling to get them eating!

~~Jo~~

;) Head first or butt first....doesn't matter. It's all going to the same place. It just looks easier head first. Mine have done the butt thing a couple times. Dandylion seems to like hers wet. She drags it into the water and swishes it around a couple times before eating it. :confuse: Weirdo!

Wow that is odd Christie. Dandy's your rescue right? Maybe it's some sort of odd reaction she learned to do when her husbandry was not quite up to par. Either that or she's just in touch with her inner raccoon LOL.

~~Jo~~

Yeah she's the rescue. She finally seems to really settled in. She doesn't freak out every time I check on her and isn't nearly so ready to ball up. I can only get one mouse down at a time but she is gaining weight well so we'll leave her alone. Apparently both shed while I was on vacation, but neither had a problem. I'm just glad Dandy is doing so well. I won't worry if she has some weird love for water. (of course her water was a lovely shade of pink when I picked her up and her humidity was nonexistant. Grrrr .... stupid people! :stab:

She sounds a real character :cool: I never realized before my daughter got hers just how funny and wonderful they can be - I just can't imagine life without ours now.

I wonder, apart from waiting the set week as is outlined - can you tell when a snake is hungry before that week's out? or do you just wait for it to try and eat you? Being new to them I can't read "snake language" yet :P

Thank you all - you've all been a really great help and confidence booster for me.

Sue