How to tell if hurt/stuck?

If your BP is stuck in a hide they used to go up into when they were smaller, and when they are bigger you come home to them seemingly stuck in this hide, how can you be sure they can get out just fine?

Also what to look for to tell if your BP is hurt?


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Originally Posted by KingWheatley

seemingly stuck in this hide

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Define "being stuck".

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Originally Posted by KingWheatley

how can you be sure they can get out just fine?

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Leave them alone, a surprisingly simple solution to a needlessly complicated question...

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Originally Posted by shelpen

Define "being stuck".


Leave them alone, a surprisingly simple solution to a needlessly complicated question...

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I define being stuck being unable to move from their hide to regulate their body temperature or get anything else necessary for their survival like water.

The snake was then found dead from dehydration and curled around its own fecal matter after being left alone. So pardon me if I'm a bit skeptical and checking Wheatley rather frantically when he starts to use a small hide meant for a small lizard and not a baby ball python.

This question is masked by paranoia of a possibility, and a story I was told about a snake who was neglected (although not necessarily stuck.)


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by KingWheatley

I define being stuck being unable to move from their hide to regulate their body temperature or get anything else necessary for their survival like water.

The snake was then found dead from dehydration and curled around its own fecal matter after being left alone. So pardon me if I'm a bit skeptical and checking Wheatley rather frantically when he starts to use a small hide meant for a small lizard and not a baby ball python.

This question is masked by paranoia of a possibility, and a story I was told about a snake who was neglected (although not necessarily stuck.)


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Not to be rude but how about using an appropriate hide for Wheatley? I would not use one meant for a lizard.

The hide in question has a lip with some sharp edges up at the top of it, and wasn't really made for a snake to crawl up in it, it seems. But it's hollow up there, so Wheatley has been known to crawl up there as a baby... BUT HES GOTTEN BIGGER.

So I'm afraid he'll get stuck up there, and there's no way to tell if he is stuck right now or if he's just chilling up there. He's been in the exact same place for 3 days now


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I don't know how long to give him before I default to attempt a rescue on him, in which I will take him to the animal hospital and hope they have something to lubricate him out and such.... I'm assuming in desperation he won't hurt himself like a stuck animal would? But if he does what does a snake who is in pain look like??


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Do you have a picture of this hide? If he hasn't gone through a shed with you, maybe he's in the process. They don't come out during that time as I've noticed with mine.

Would REALLY appreciate non-sarcastic answers right now because I'm freaking out right now in a full panic attack every time I even think about it.


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I'm not sure what kind of hides you use, but he definitely won't get stuck in these reptilebasics hides. They're smooth and light enough to lift on their back, so you can tell when they've outgrown it.

http://www.reptilebasics.com/hide-boxes

I think if you have doubts about the shape of your hide, better to just switch to a new one. Better safe than sorry.

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Originally Posted by KingWheatley

The hide in question has a lip with some sharp edges up at the top of it, and wasn't really made for a snake to crawl up in it, it seems. But it's hollow up there, so Wheatley has been known to crawl up there as a baby... BUT HES GOTTEN BIGGER.

So I'm afraid he'll get stuck up there, and there's no way to tell if he is stuck right now or if he's just chilling up there. He's been in the exact same place for 3 days now


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Try not to panic. He may just be very comfortable in a tight spot like that. However, I do recommend you change the hides to something more appropriate. Pet stores do have cave like hides that you can purchase or you could go to Reptile Basic's website and order some simple plastic appropriate sized hides.

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Originally Posted by redshepherd

I'm not sure what kind of hides you use, but he definitely won't get stuck in these reptilebasics hides. They're smooth and light enough to lift on their back, so you can tell when they've outgrown it.

http://www.reptilebasics.com/hide-boxes

I think if you have doubts about the shape of your hide, better to just switch to a new one. Better safe than sorry.

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Thank you. You posted the hides I am talking about while I was typing my earlier response to this thread.

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Originally Posted by ballpythonluvr

Not to be rude but how about using an appropriate hide for Wheatley? I would not use one meant for a lizard.

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RIGHT!??!! Petsmart fricken sold it to me saying it would be a great snake hide.... I didn't argue because this was months ago but I'm so MAD.

I was told it was meant for a lizard from my friend who owns a couple bearded dragons and an iguana, as welll as a retic python. She's trying to find a better hide but she said she doesn't think he's stuck but I really think he is right now.... or possibly hurt!

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...2929e8e223.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...281622e0fb.jpg

This is it. Not taken today it was when I first started questioning it back a week or so ago when I was refurbishing his tank. It's smooth up all the way but it has sharp edges in the very top I can't fit my camera through. But they look like this

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...2cd9cbe9c7.jpg

Also I started worrying about this a couple days ago but I have to wait until I get paid, so if he is unstuck, and is waiting out another shed, which might be possible given that he's grown, Ill be switching it out ASAP

But how can you tell if he's really not stuck


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I think if he got in, he can get out. They're remarkably malleable.

He eats in two days, hopefully the smell of food will coax him out then. Then I'll know for sure and be able to switch it out...

He has a very healthy and strong food response, so I have no doubt that if he can still squeeze out of there, he will definitely do so then... but two days is a really long time to wait...

[emoji21]

At this point I'm ready to give in and just toss this tank system I have out and just go with the breeder-go-to of a simple pull-out shelf with paper bedding and plastic box hides/water dishes....

Although when affordable I'll be getting a permanent tank with one of those doors instead of what I have now....

I'll take him to the vet after.


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I just stopped back by Lowes and got me a couple more 6" small black plastic flower pots. Before I went and picked up my buddy , I was told he was about the size of a baseball. Well that may be so but he lays more flat in the hide. I originally took about an inch off the top (bottom) but I still feel this is way to tall for him as I've seen several places they like to feel 3 sides of hide against them. So I went and bought a couple more and cut them in 1/2 so they are about 3 " tall and soldered a crawl hole and smoothed edges from cuts. Now I will get home change these out , have the ones hes in now for when he gets a little bigger! They were every bit of a couple dollars and I could cut them to size. If hes bigger than buy the next size up and do the same. Or that link that someone posted a few up seems they have pretty good hides as well for fairly cheap. I'm sure hes not stuck probably just reallllllly comfortable. All the best.

Like BPgator said, they're very malleable. I had a long log which was hollow inside and it acted like a tunnel. Jumbi was never stuck in it, but I could tell he was growing out of it due to some scales being scratched. So I took that out.

If you're really concerned, you can blow dry a mouse and use the scent to lure him out. I just wouldn't risk holding him if he's in feed mode though.

Most sure fire way to know they're stuck is when you catch that scent of decay...

He's probably fine. He just found a nice tight place where he feels safe and secure. He doesnt want to be bothered. The more you mess with him. The more you pick up the hide to check on him the tighter he is going to wedge himself in there.

I worked for a big box pet store and new employees would always put a hide like that in with the snakes by mistake. It was annoying for my inventory accounts but they were fine.

Leave the snake alone for a while. If he isn't out after a week then I might consider carefully breaking open the hide.

And seriously. Get him a proper hide so this doesn't happen again. Flower pot saucers are perfect and cheap.

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Originally Posted by voodoolamb

Most sure fire way to know they're stuck is when you catch that scent of decay...

He's probably fine. He just found a nice tight place where he feels safe and secure. He doesnt want to be bothered. The more you mess with him. The more you pick up the hide to check on him the tighter he is going to wedge himself in there.

I worked for a big box pet store and new employees would always put a hide like that in with the snakes by mistake. It was annoying for my inventory accounts but they were fine.

Leave the snake alone for a while. If he isn't out after a week then I might consider carefully breaking open the hide.

And seriously. Get him a proper hide so this doesn't happen again. Flower pot saucers are perfect and cheap.

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I was hesitant before, when Deborah suggested it, and I used a temporary hide and after fixing his husbandry in his tank I had thrown the plastic saucers out. Going for showy because I see a lot of BP owners who use really pretty set ups. Like SuperMaryFace (and her hubby CinnamonToastKen) who met up with Brian. So I assume she knows what the heck she is talking about.


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Originally Posted by KingWheatley

I was hesitant before, when Deborah suggested it, and I used a temporary hide and after fixing his husbandry in his tank I had thrown the plastic saucers out. Going for showy because I see a lot of BP owners who use really pretty set ups. Like SuperMaryFace (and her hubby CinnamonToastKen) who met up with Brian. So I assume she knows what the heck she is talking about.


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I don't understand... you threw the plastic saucers away because Deborah suggested you use them???

I have no clue who those people are. They sound like weird twitter or youtube handles. I don't understand what them meeting brian (of BHB I assume? And I'm pretty sure he keeps the majority of his animals in simple tub set ups) has to do with their credibility. I once dated a sports medicine doctor. Does that make me an expert on neurosurgery? No. I don't understand why you choose to listen to random youtubers instead of following the advice of established ball python breeders who have dealt with many many many baby balls over the years.

Which isn't to say that you CAN'T have a showy enclosure - but remember showy is for your benefit. Not your snakes. I personally would not put a young hatchling into a pretty open show tank, because juvenile snakes stress easily and the conventional wisdom from the people who have been breeding ball pythons for decades - is that babies THRIVE in small, tight enclosures and really like low profile dark hides.

These snakes love somewhere between 20 and 30 years. There is PLENTY of time for handling and putting them into display tanks when they are adults.

All that said I was at Atlantic zoo and aquarium over the weekend. Guess what I saw in their reptile house? Pretty planted vivs AND a few reptile basics style black plastic hides. They also didn't have juvenile snakes on display either...

I watched SuperMaryFace's short little BP care video, I did not agree with a bunch of the things she was saying.

There's no reason you can't do a showy enclosure if he's eating well and your husbandry is in tip-top shape when you do it, but I wouldn't take tips from some Youtuber lady.

Chances are if he's stuck the hide with have to be cut, he's going to tense up and make everything more difficult if someone tries to lube him up and pull him out. If he comes out on his own, get rid of the hide and get a proper one.

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Originally Posted by voodoolamb

I don't understand... you threw the plastic saucers away because Deborah suggested you use them???

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Yea... no. You really didn't understand what I said.

I did not have them before Deborah told me to get them.

I got them as a temporary replacement while I fixed his actual tank. While her suggestion was to keep him in this, I still disagree that it is the only option. *eyeroll* And I'm allowed my own opinion on this. And I will continue to shovel my heels in on this because it's absolutely false that it is the only way to house your snake.

It's EXACTLY like claiming that a captive bred fox belongs ONLY outside because his natural instincts. No. a captive bred fox can be raised indoors if enrichment is given and if outside is a crowded neighborhood with dogs. It's EXACTLY like saying there is only ONE way to raise a kid. Or a dog. Or a horse.

But here we go. *gets out my popcorn.* I spoke out against a popular individual on this site who is knowledgeable in her own right however stubborn in her own way. I may not be able to ignore the people who are so fixated on repeating the last bit of information they heard that made sense that they would ignore all else. *munch munch munch*

And then once I fixed his tank, which works just fine, I threw out the sharp edged plastic saucers I CUT MYSELF because they could HURT him.

-_-

But please. Do continue.


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*heavy sigh*


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Did he come out yet?

Just came out on his own. Was about to update but was in the middle of venting frustration


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Right on! Glad to see he came out on his own!

As was suggested before, replace it with something appropriate and you'll never have to worry about him getting stuck again.

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Still going to take a trip to the vet...

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...ec0324635f.jpg

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...051193823f.jpg

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...3c3d5ea067.jpg

Will need to make sure this is only temporary scale damage that will go away with his next sheds.

Also going to be putting down softer bedding in the mean time....


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That's the umbilicus in the third picture.

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Originally Posted by Seven-Thirty

That's the umbilicus....

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snakes have "belly buttons"..... that's hysterical. Ok so the line is explained. What about the other two though


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Originally Posted by KingWheatley

snakes have "belly buttons"..... that's hysterical. Ok so the line is explained. What about the other two though


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Just pattern.

If they're anything they're just minor scrapes, incredibly minor.

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Originally Posted by Fraido

If they're anything they're just minor scrapes, incredibly minor.

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Ok. But definitely getting rid of the one hide. Will replace it with a similar rock hide to the one he already has


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by KingWheatley

Yea... no. You really didn't understand what I said.

I did not have them before Deborah told me to get them.

I got them as a temporary replacement while I fixed his actual tank. While her suggestion was to keep him in this, I still disagree that it is the only option. *eyeroll* And I'm allowed my own opinion on this. And I will continue to shovel my heels in on this because it's absolutely false that it is the only way to house your snake.

It's EXACTLY like claiming that a captive bred fox belongs ONLY outside because his natural instincts. No. a captive bred fox can be raised indoors if enrichment is given and if outside is a crowded neighborhood with dogs. It's EXACTLY like saying there is only ONE way to raise a kid. Or a dog. Or a horse.

But here we go. *gets out my popcorn.* I spoke out against a popular individual on this site who is knowledgeable in her own right however stubborn in her own way. I may not be able to ignore the people who are so fixated on repeating the last bit of information they heard that made sense that they would ignore all else. *munch munch munch*

And then once I fixed his tank, which works just fine, I threw out the sharp edged plastic saucers I CUT MYSELF because they could HURT him.

-_-

But please. Do continue.


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What’s with mentioning my name in every other post in the last 2 threads? Trust me as far as popularity goes I have been one of the least popular member on the forum since 2006 and I DO NOT care either way, I am not here for popularity.

Here are some facts for you.

There is more than one way to skin a cat and I have said it over and over again, however there is also an optimum PROVEN way for new owners that not only help with issues but also address possible issues before they arise.

Do I keep my animals that way? NO I keep my animals with no hot spot 8 months of the year, I also do not provide hides. Would that work for a new INEXPERIENCE owner? NO.

What makes the difference between knowing what works and is optimum and what does not? EXPERIENCE and I don’t mean owning 1 snake for 4 weeks or being a Youtube wannabee.

Now when it comes to YOUR new current problem, if optimum hides had been provided this would not have happened, again optimum = solving issues and preventing issues to arise.

I am done here so you can keep trying to bait me by continuing to mention my name I will not answer, I have already wasted enough time with this post.

As others have said, as time goes on you may experiment and solidify that there are numerous ways to care for your animal. I encourage experimentation, but you must be smart about it and use common sense.

Decorative hides can be very enticing. One thing that is mandatory when choosing a new hide is safety. The first thing you do is inspect every square millimeter of the interior. If you can not reach any sharp edges with a Dremel tool or sandpaper then do not buy the hide.
Snakes are curious and by nature and inspect everything. If any hide has tight crawl spaces within it, then stay away from it.

No hide is better than a dangerous one.

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Originally Posted by KingWheatley

Yea... no. You really didn't understand what I said.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by KingWheatley

I did not have them before Deborah told me to get them.

I got them as a temporary replacement while I fixed his actual tank. While her suggestion was to keep him in this, I still disagree that it is the only option. *eyeroll* And I'm allowed my own opinion on this. And I will continue to shovel my heels in on this because it's absolutely false that it is the only way to house your snake.

It's EXACTLY like claiming that a captive bred fox belongs ONLY outside because his natural instincts. No. a captive bred fox can be raised indoors if enrichment is given and if outside is a crowded neighborhood with dogs. It's EXACTLY like saying there is only ONE way to raise a kid. Or a dog. Or a horse.

But here we go. *gets out my popcorn.* I spoke out against a popular individual on this site who is knowledgeable in her own right however stubborn in her own way. I may not be able to ignore the people who are so fixated on repeating the last bit of information they heard that made sense that they would ignore all else. *munch munch munch*

And then once I fixed his tank, which works just fine, I threw out the sharp edged plastic saucers I CUT MYSELF because they could HURT him.

-_-

But please. Do continue.


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Wow. Take a chill pill.

I suggest the flower pot saucer because I personally know MULTIPLE people that use them and because they are dirt cheap. You said you had been worried about the lizard hide for DAYS but had to wait till you got paid. So I suggested the cheapest option for a hide your snake would LIKE and that would be SAFE. That way, ya know, you wouldn't have to leave something you thought was dangerous in with your beloved pet.

Then you brought up another poster. My confusion was because I had absolutely no clue why she was being brought up as she had NOTHING to do with my initial post, my suggestion of a flower pot saucer had NOTHING to do with her. So yeah. I had no idea why you were harping on about her. I've known snake keepers who've used them long before I ever found this site. I used them for my lizards. When they are properly set up there are no sharp edges.

Actually, I believe I even said there is nothing wrong with having a display tank. Just that they aren't optimal for hatchlings as they are so easily stressed out. An opinion I formed while working in exotics retail and dealing with dozens and dozens of juvenile BPs and based on the education and opinions of the small team of reptile vets that store used...

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Originally Posted by KingWheatley

I was hesitant before, when Deborah suggested it, and I used a temporary hide and after fixing his husbandry in his tank I had thrown the plastic saucers out. Going for showy because I see a lot of BP owners who use really pretty set ups. Like SuperMaryFace (and her hubby CinnamonToastKen) who met up with Brian. So I assume she knows what the heck she is talking about.


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^
I was creating a time-stamp. Mention of her was for her benefit, because I was establishing that despite my disagreement with her, I DID use her idea for a temporary set up.

Not sure why this is getting drama spitfire from that but whatever.... -_-


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Please stay on-topic and respectful. If you are unable to do so, don't press send.

Best regards,
Eric

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Originally Posted by KingWheatley

Still going to take a trip to the vet...

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...ec0324635f.jpg

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...051193823f.jpg

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I had to blow up the photo to see the small chip in it's scales.... Just a question, but what would could cause that? Does it go away? Is it normal? Does it hurt the snake?

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Originally Posted by Deborah

I keep my animals with no hot spot 8 months of the year, I also do not provide hides. Would that work for a new INEXPERIENCE owner? NO.

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May I respectfully ask why? (Out of curiosity. No disrespect meant.)

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Originally Posted by Kreature

May I respectfully ask why? (Out of curiosity. No disrespect meant.)

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Off topic but good read http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...nt+temperature