First Clutch - Could you help me ID Morph?

After 61 days our clutch of 7 produced 6 hatchlings! The female maternally incubated them. #7 looks healthy but seems to be comfortable in its egg (head showing) and hasn't come out yet.

The mom/female is a spider and the dad/male is a pastel.

Could people help me identify who is who? The like pink ones are amazing looking and look nothing like mom or dad. I believe the spiders have the "pixels" on the sides towards their bellies. I'm a bit confused on which are pastels and/or normals.

I don't know who is more excited, me or my 10 year old daughter!

Could I get some help identifying them?

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Photo #1: We have 2 very pink babies like this one:
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https://i.imgur.com/OjnwlT8.jpg

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Photo #2: Underside of the "pink" ones look like this:
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https://i.imgur.com/2JRY8yk.jpg

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Photo #3: Contrasting
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https://i.imgur.com/1HkrYqh.jpg

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Photo #4: Pastel or Normal?
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https://i.imgur.com/8EJPErD.jpg

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Photo #5:
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https://i.imgur.com/AX2OOJ1.jpg

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Photo #6:
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https://i.imgur.com/qPvNFu8.jpg

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Photo#7: Spider?
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https://i.imgur.com/0ZIzxaF.jpg

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Photo #8: Spider?
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https://i.imgur.com/L9B6rdy.jpg

The pink will turn white. The two really pink ones I believe are bumble bees, the last one is a spider, the rest look like normals. I see no straight pastel. Congrats!

Can I see a picture of both parents? Cause those don't look like bumble bees.

They do seem light, I figured it was due to not shedding but since there are no straight pastel you could be right about the parents. :)

Yea got to wait till they shed then you can tell a lot better

Quote:

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Originally Posted by piedlover79

I see no straight pastel.

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Number 7 of 7 came out after mom was taken off the clutch. It looks like I got my straight pastel... right?

(Looks like Dad.)
https://i.imgur.com/rG2JP6J.png

I see no pastel. I believe the last one to be a lesser. I'm pretty sure the pink ones are lesser bees. Beautiful clutch!

Looks like daddy was a butter and not a pastel!

EDIT: someone beat me to it lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Seven-Thirty

Can I see a picture of both parents? Cause those don't look like bumble bees.

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Here are mom and dad - let me know if I'm off-base. Much appreciated!

Photo #1: Mom (Spider)

https://i.imgur.com/IqdFbUE.png

Photo #2 and Photo #3: Dad (Pastel)

https://i.imgur.com/I6z5bjM.png

https://i.imgur.com/KTl0jGP.png

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Moloik

I see no pastel. I believe the last one to be a lesser. I'm pretty sure the pink ones are lesser bees. Beautiful clutch!

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Trisnake

Looks like daddy was a butter and not a pastel!
EDIT: someone beat me to it lol

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Ah ha! OK you guys might be right. I think I do remember the term "lesser" being thrown around at the Tampa herp show 4-5 years ago when we bought him.

Can you take a look at the pics of mom and dad that I posted right after you both replied and give me your final jeopardy answer...?

The Butter and Lesser pics I find online as so similar. I think I remember "Lesser" being what Dad was.

Thank you!

Butter and lesser are very similar looking. I don't believe there's much of a difference between the 2. Bloodlines that produce butters may be different than lessers but I'm not 100%. I do know they look and react the same when breeding. I'm still pretty new at this as well so maybe a more experienced member can help but as far as the butter lesser questions they are pretty much the same

IMO looks like you have... butter/lesser bees, spider, normal, and a butter/lesser. I don't see any pastels.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by blk02ssmonte

IMO looks like you have... butter/lesser bees, spider, normal, and a butter/lesser. I don't see any pastels.

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I found a breeding chart online that agrees with your thoughts on morphs if the breeding pair was a spider with a lesser.

If so it looks like I should get roughly 25% of each of the following:
Normal
Lesser
Lesser Bee
Spider

Thanks for the input blk02ssmonte.

Yep. Dad is a lesser, not a pastel. You have 2 lesser spiders, 1 spider, 1 lesser, and the rest are normals.

I don't see any pastel there either.

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Mom and dad looking beautiful!

Congrats on your first clutch. You got a nice group of babies. Those lesser bees are awesome. I have a pastel lesser female I'm hoping to pair with something nice in the distant future lol.

Butter and Lesser are analogous genes; they're basically slightly different versions of the same mutation. If I'm not mistaken butters tend to have creamier, more off-white colors where as Lessers have more whites and silvers.

But yeah, dad is definitely a lesser or butter. He has creamy alien heads with reduced keyholes and silver flaming like a lesser/butter. He would have a lot more blushing and higher contrast between the lights and darks if he were pastel.

What a fun surprise though! Gotta love lesserbees!

Lesser Bee - Normal - Spider and Lesser

Lesser and Butter are the same just different lines, just like Coral Glow and Banana.

Now it would be nice from a lineage standpoint to know which one you are working with as people tend to care about lineage.

You are definitely not working with Pastel.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Now it would be nice from a lineage standpoint to know which one you are working with as people tend to care about lineage.

You are definitely not working with Pastel.

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Agreed and thanks for the details and advice.

So just to close the loop on the last couple months and the 2 threads I started (starting with my other thread about maternally incubating.)

Dad was a Lesser, Mom was a Spider

Clutch of 7 produced this offspring:
2 Normal
2 Spider
2 Lesser Bee
1 Lesser

(That seems to line up perfectly from genetics/statistics standpoint.)

Thanks to everyone for all the advice and comments - I can see how this could get addictive!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hatchcrab

Agreed and thanks for the details and advice.

So just to close the loop on the last couple months and the 2 threads I started (starting with my other thread about maternally incubating.)

Dad was a Lesser, Mom was a Spider

Clutch of 7 produced this offspring:
2 Normal
2 Spider
2 Lesser Bee
1 Lesser

(That seems to line up perfectly from genetics/statistics standpoint.)

Thanks to everyone for all the advice and comments - I can see how this could get addictive!

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You were damn near right on the nose with the odds huh lol. Just needed one more snake that was a lesser and itd be exactly a punnette (spelling) square prediction haha. Good looking snakes congrats. Next year i plan on breeding my Killerbee yellowbelly male to my pastel butter ghost female. Im sure ill also need help IDing the pastels any supers and any pastel butters.

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