Plan to breed thoughts

Ive been educating myself and researching breeding ball pythons.

I will have to get an additional thermostat. I will probabaly get a 2 zone herpstat. So i can have one zone on my main rack amd another on an incubator. And i will have my old one for a simple quarrantine rack i have made. Is it better to get 2 herpstats or a double zone one? Based on price vs features/benefits? I have an older single one that is the green box style. Works great still.

I am playing with the idea of what i want on an outcome of breeding. I really like the pinstripe as it is dominant amd banana is a great co dominant. Id like to breed a lesser pair but i am scared of the bug eye issue In bel.

Would i be better off going with a single dominant or co dom female. And then getting a multi gene male down the road?

I was thinking of a pinstripe female and then spending more money on a male later. As prices come down and males are cheaper. I could also find a single gene het. But there are so many recessives. Idk wherw to start on all this. I only have a male normal now who is 12. I have a 4 slot 28qt rack. I want to fill. Ill eventually build another or convert my simple quarrantine rack to full time rack.

Also when running multiple heat tape strips on one zone, can the strips be different lengths? As long as they are the same wattage

Btt anyone

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Originally Posted by sneakysnake611

Is it better to get 2 herpstats or a double zone one? Based on price vs features/benefits?

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Price and your future plans should be your biggest consideration, as the features are the same. A Herpstat 2 is essentially two Herpstat 1s packaged in a single unit.

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Originally Posted by sneakysnake611

Would i be better off going with a single dominant or co dom female. And then getting a multi gene male down the road?

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Yes. Females take considerably longer to mature, so it's in your best interest (for several reasons) to add females to your collection first.

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Originally Posted by sneakysnake611

Also when running multiple heat tape strips on one zone, can the strips be different lengths? As long as they are the same wattage

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Nope. The heat strips need to be of the same length when plugged into the same Herpstat Output. Picture a person holding a bowling ball in one hand and a baseball in the other. If the person uses the same force to throw both balls at the same time, the baseball is going to go much further than the bowling ball. The same logic applies to heat tape of different lengths. All the Herpstat knows is to provide the same amount of power to its one output. Applying the same amount of power to two different lengths of tape will result in two different temperatures.

YOU need to breed what YOU like and should not let other's dictate what your goal should be.

If you fear for bug eyes but want to make a BEL a safe option will be Lesser X Mojave

The only thing I would encourage you to do is make sure you are ready and asking yourself the right question, such as what will you do with the offspring, will you keep them, is there a market for them, can you afford keeping them X amount of time if they do not sell, do you have a reliable source of live feeder once your hatchling hatch?

As for heat tape you want to run identical pieces of heat tape on the same thermostat otherwise you will have temperatures discrepancies.

I did not know that about the mojXlesser is better to avoid bug eyed lucys. Thank you

If you "bridge" multiple strips onto one male plug going into the herpstat for one zone is this okay? So long as each strip is the same Length/wattage...

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Originally Posted by sneakysnake611

If you "bridge" multiple strips onto one male plug going into the herpstat for one zone is this okay? So long as each strip is the same Length/wattage...

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The less you do this, the more safe you'll be, but yes - it will work like that.

Im leaning towards getting a simple single gene female pinstripe maybe het somthing. And then adding a male banana down the road maybe het something.And adding with a moj x lesser now.

Im a big lucy fan. I love the pinstripes in any combo morph

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Originally Posted by Deborah

YOU need to breed what YOU like and should not let other's dictate what your goal should be.

If you fear for bug eyes but want to make a BEL a safe option will be Lesser X Mojave

The only thing I would encourage you to do is make sure you are ready and asking yourself the right question, such as what will you do with the offspring, will you keep them, is there a market for them, can you afford keeping them X amount of time if they do not sell, do you have a reliable source of live feeder once your hatchling hatch?

As for heat tape you want to run identical pieces of heat tape on the same thermostat otherwise you will have temperatures discrepancies.

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Is lesser x lesser the only bug eye prone pairing?
How about super butters? Or any other super bel combo?

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Originally Posted by sneakysnake611

Is lesser x lesser the only bug eye prone pairing?
How about super butters? Or any other super bel combo?

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Super Butter is as well, yes.

Here is a good list for combos that have issues associated with them: http://www.owalreptiles.com/issues.php. :gj:

Great link Eric. That's very good info to have. Thanks

Great link. Is it safe to assume butter x lesser has bug eyes? Is bug eyes very common or just rarely? I cant seem to find a percentage figure

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Originally Posted by sneakysnake611

Great link. Is it safe to assume butter x lesser has bug eyes?

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Thanks. Yes, it's safe to assume. The two morphs are arguably the same, so you'd get the same results.

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Originally Posted by sneakysnake611

Is bug eyes very common or just rarely? I cant seem to find a percentage figure

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You're probably not going to find a percentage. Bug eyes aren't a guarantee, but they're common enough that I personally wouldn't do the pairing - especially when there are so many other ways to make a white snake.

When making a bel. Ive heard you can cross mojave, butter, lesser. In any way or form however when you add mojave you get a "dirty, bel. Not as pure white is this true?. Is their any other genes im missing to get bel?

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Originally Posted by sneakysnake611

When making a bel. Ive heard you can cross mojave, butter, lesser. In any way or form however when you add mojave you get a "dirty, bel. Not as pure white is this true?.

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Yes. Some end up with more white than others. Lesser/Butter x Mojave is probably the most common with good results. White Diamond (Russo x Russo - see the next link) is less common, but is a very clean white BEL from what I've seen.

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Originally Posted by sneakysnake611

Is their any other genes im missing to get bel?

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There's a few more. Check out the left hand column on this page: http://www.owalreptiles.com/complexes.php.

About bug eyes- not sure if this applies every time, but my Lesser Butter's bug eyes have disappeared as he grew older. They were the most prominent as a hatchling and were still a bit noticeable maybe until 6 months old. Now that he's really full grown, they're all but gone.

Here he is as a hatchling:

https://41.media.tumblr.com/15f88a3f...32zso1_540.jpg

https://40.media.tumblr.com/eb4b595b...2zso3_1280.jpg


And here he is now at ~13 months old. Unfortunately just an iphone photo, but you can see they're pretty normal looking. Or at least, if they're still not normal, I can't tell. He's also kind of pink, because he's going into shed.

https://s21.postimg.org/ro38z70sn/Fu...e_Render_4.jpg

Don't know if it would affect your decision, but that's how mine developed. I'm breeding for super butters/super lessers next spring.

Super russos/white diamonds commonly develop yellow tints and have a yellow dorsal stripe. I've heard super lessers/butters are technically the whitest- just the bug eye issue. Mine definitely is still white with no yellow. Some of the white diamond examples on WOBP have been edited so that there is less saturation on the snake's body. Lies LOL.

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Originally Posted by redshepherd

...examples on WOBP have been edited so that there is less saturation on the snake's body. Lies LOL.

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Who would do such a thing! :rolleyes: ;) :P Yes, WOBP is not without its opportunities.

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Originally Posted by Eric Alan

Who would do such a thing! :rolleyes: ;) :P Yes, WOBP is not without its opportunities.

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My trust is lost forever! LOL