New owner with a few questions

Hello all, first off I'd like to thank you all for the info I've gathered while lurking for the last week or so.

Ive wanted a Python since I was a kid, I'm 30 now, and finally pulled the trigger last week. I didn't mean to do it but the notion brewed again recently and I makes a trip to the locally owned pet store with the fiance and kids. I was just going to price out what it would take to get started and that's when I saw her. She is a 7 yo female that was sold to them because the owner had to many. I immediately felt bad that she was discarded and asked to hold her, and then it was over. I whipped out the credit card and got her and everything I needed.

So my questions, why does it seem like so may people hord reptiles rather than offering a quality home and Why the debate over the size of enclosure when so many people keep them in racks?

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Originally Posted by Bennie1986

So my questions, why does it seem like so may people hord reptiles rather than offering a quality home...

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Define "hoarding" and "quality home".

I have 90-ish snakes and two leopard geckos. All are in racks/tubs or enclosures built specifically for reptiles. None are in tanks. They are housed so that I can provide them with appropriate heat and humidity as well as an easily-cleaned environment.

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Why the debate over the size of enclosure when so many people keep them in racks?

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Baby snakes like to hide as they are prey. While many adult snake species are ok with a large, airy, open enclosure, ball pythons adults are still pretty small, and they like small, confined spaces. In nature they live underground in termite mounds and they only come out at night to hunt.

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Originally Posted by bcr229

Define "hoarding" and "quality home".

I have 90-ish snakes and two leopard geckos. All are in racks/tubs or enclosures built specifically for reptiles. None are in tanks. They are housed so that I can provide them with appropriate heat and humidity as well as an easily-cleaned environment.


Baby snakes like to hide as they are prey. While many adult snake species are ok with a large, airy, open enclosure, ball pythons adults are still pretty small, and they like small, confined spaces. In nature they live underground in termite mounds and they only come out at night to hunt.

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So people I have seen with racks have adult snakes that are in racks that are, approx, 12w30d4t. Just Cause they can keep them alive doesn't mean they are thriving. Have you ever been to jail? They keep you alive but is it a life you would choose?

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Originally Posted by Bennie1986

Just Cause they can keep them alive doesn't mean they are thriving. Have you ever been to jail? They keep you alive but is it a life you would choose?

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I think this is quite an assumption. Most breeders on here have had tons of experience caring for snakes and you can see healthy thriving snakes if you see their posts. I don't think racks are at all jail for snakes. If so, that's quite a luxury to be fed consistently and left in the dark! Lol

Of course us owners who just have one snake or maybe two prefer beautiful display tanks/cages for our pets, but that doesn't mean racks are an insufficient environment. :)

A rack is the ideal home for a ball python. In my opinion anything else is less than ideal. Most won't really thrive unless you have them in a rack, it's similar to their natural environment.

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Originally Posted by Bennie1986

I whipped out the credit card and got her and everything I needed.

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So what equipment did the store sell you with the snake?

I originally felt bad for snakes in racks. Then I started to pay attention to my snakes. For example, I have most of my corns in vivs. They climb, hang out in the vines... but one wouldn't do any of that and stayed tense. After trying even more vines, I binned her for a month. Totally changed her personality so that's where she is. I have two bp's in vivs because they'd shoot out of the rack like nobody's business and I'd have to wrestle them back in after handling. They're in sliding glass-front stackable Neodeshas. Like my corns, when they come to the front, I open it up and they come out onto my arm. The rest of my bp's are racked in the 6" high bins. It's darker and they are much calmer. They either slither out or I lift them out and they go back without hesitation. My rosy boas are in a rack system with 10" tall bins, and a ton of aspen. They like to burrow a lot. When they surface onto a hide or log, I take them out. They come out easily and go back easily. Everyone eats well, sheds well, has healthy-looking bathroom breaks... I also have one African House Snake in a viv; she is a phenomenal vine-hider unless she's digesting, then she's in her hide.
i have a total of 29 snakes. I am highly organized with their feeding schedules (5-14 days), routines (in-cage or out), preferred FT (mice or rats), water and cage cleanings, types of substrate (aspen or reptichip.), everyone is named...(lol). I have a good exotics vet. I do not consider myself to be a hoarder. I am an avid hobbyist. I define a hoarder as someone with a bunch of something they are not properly caring for...and that's not me, that's not breeders, that's not the majority of people on this forum. And as for the idea that one should be enough. It is for some people and that's what perfect for them. This is perfect for me.
PS. And I always have someone to play with, someone not in shed, digesting... (smile)

Tank, heat pad, bedding, two hides, lamp, decor, two thermometers, hygrometer, spry bottle, and food.

You should have a thermostat to regulate the heat pad temperature.


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Originally Posted by DLena

I originally felt bad for snakes in racks. Then I started to pay attention to my snakes. For example, I have most of my corns in vivs. They climb, hang out in the vines... but one wouldn't do any of that and stayed tense. After trying even more vines, I binned her for a month. Totally changed her personality so that's where she is. I have two bp's in vivs because they'd shoot out of the rack like nobody's business and I'd have to wrestle them back in after handling. They're in sliding glass-front stackable Neodeshas. Like my corns, when they come to the front, I open it up and they come out onto my arm. The rest of my bp's are racked in the 6" high bins. It's darker and they are much calmer. They either slither out or I lift them out and they go back without hesitation. My rosy boas are in a rack system with 10" tall bins, and a ton of aspen. They like to burrow a lot. When they surface onto a hide or log, I take them out. They come out easily and go back easily. Everyone eats well, sheds well, has healthy-looking bathroom breaks... I also have one African House Snake in a viv; she is a phenomenal vine-hider unless she's digesting, then she's in her hide.
i have a total of 29 snakes. I am highly organized with their feeding schedules (5-14 days), routines (in-cage or out), preferred FT (mice or rats), water and cage cleanings, types of substrate (aspen or reptichip.), everyone is named...(lol). I have a good exotics vet. I do not consider myself to be a hoarder. I am an avid hobbyist. I define a hoarder as someone with a bunch of something they are not properly caring for...and that's not me, that's not breeders, that's not the majority of people on this forum. And as for the idea that one should be enough. It is for some people and that's what perfect for them. This is perfect for me.
PS. And I always have someone to play with, someone not in shed, digesting... (smile)

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I didn't mean to sound like all people with alot of pets are hording or bad. I need to be more clear with what I'm actually saying and asking. I understand what you are saying about the snakes being healthy that way but I was just wondering if they wouldn't prefer a more natural habitat? (Now keep in mind I am a new owner and so these are genuine questions because I am sure no expert) Also I don't understand why some people say you have to have at least a 30g container and then some say they are better off in the racks?

I have to say you made a very good point I had not though of about already having someone to play with.

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Originally Posted by BPGator

You should have a thermostat to regulate the heat pad temperature.


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That is in the list of things I plan on getting when I can.

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Originally Posted by Bennie1986

That is in the list of things I plan on getting when I can.

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Touch your hand directly over where the heat pad is. Now imagine the snake slithering slowly directly on that spot. Unplug the heat pad until you get the thermostat, unless of course you don't have the heat pad on yet.


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Originally Posted by Bamdiggity

Touch your hand directly over where the heat pad is. Now imagine the snake slithering slowly directly on that spot. Unplug the heat pad until you get the thermostat, unless of course you don't have the heat pad on yet.


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I have an inch or so of bedding over it. If it were to hot wouldn't she just head to her cool side until she want the extra heat again? Seems to be what she has been doing.

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Originally Posted by Bennie1986

That is in the list of things I plan on getting when I can.

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Under-tank heaters get hot enough to burn in under 30 minutes if left unregulated. A vet bill for a burned snake will cost several times what a thermostat does - and you still have to purchase a thermostat.

Ball pythons are a burrowing species. They live underground in nature. They will push the aspen aside and lie on the glass, and they will let themselves get burned.

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Originally Posted by Bennie1986

I have an inch or so of bedding over it. If it were to hot wouldn't she just head to her cool side until she want the extra heat again? Seems to be what she has been doing.

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Snakes burrow to get closer to the heat, and aren't great at judging temperatures on their bellies, so an UTH and no thermostat means disaster waiting to happen.

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She may actually burn herself rather than cool off. If you're on a budget, order a Jumpstart thermostat off of Amazon. It's like $30. You should have a thermometer taking a reading of the glass temp right next to your UTH (under the substrate). That temperature should not exceed 90°F.


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An unregulated UTH will hit the 120 degree mark in under 45 minutes AND KEEP CLIMBING. I tested one, and unplugged it after it hit 147. It took under an hour. No amount of aspen is going to protect against that. You know the saying about how to boil a frog? If you put it into boiling water, it struggles to get out. If you put it in tepid water and slowly bring the water to a boil, it never realizes what's happening and it dies. Same thing with snakes. If the pet store let you walk out with a new snake, UTH, and no thermostat, AND NEVER COUNSELLED YOU TO GET A THERMOSTAT, but they sent you out the door with everything g else, right down to 2 hides (good) and a lamp (unnecessary), then shame on them. Maybe they just didn't have one to sell you...

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Originally Posted by BPGator

You should have a thermometer taking a reading of the glass temp right next to your UTH (under the substrate). That temperature should not exceed 90°F.


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I was instructed to put the probe for thermostat in between the UTH and the glass, outside of tank so as the probe cannot be moved by the snake and worry about a misread. Also if you do decide to put the probe under substrate do not use tape to secure it as I've heard a snake and tape can be fatal. Just a beginners opinion 😀

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Originally Posted by amrakweno

I was instructed to put the probe for thermostat in between the UTH and the glass, outside of tank so as the probe cannot be moved by the snake and worry about a misread. Also if you do decide to put the probe under substrate do not use tape to secure it as I've heard a snake and tape can be fatal. Just a beginners opinion [emoji3]

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That is correct - the thermostat probe should be between the UTH and the glass. I was referring to a thermometer probe on the inside between the glass and substrate so you know the actual temperature your snake can experience.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by amrakweno

I was instructed to put the probe for thermostat in between the UTH and the glass, outside of tank so as the probe cannot be moved by the snake and worry about a misread. Also if you do decide to put the probe under substrate do not use tape to secure it as I've heard a snake and tape can be fatal. Just a beginners opinion ��

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The way you mentioned is ideal ( stat probe between the heat mat and the outside of the glass ) and then regulate by checking the inside of the viv above the heat where the probe is set ( I use a digital temp gun for reading the temp and then setting the thermostat ) it's obviously crucial to keep checking the temps .

I drilled a hole and slid the thermometer probe through the bottom of the tub. it sits on top of the hot spot on the floor of the tub. I use paper towel for substrate. I keep and eye on the thermometer and take regular reading with my temp gun. It took some adjusting in the beginning but it works pretty well for me. My thermostat keeps the hotspot between 89 and 91 pretty consistently.

I think a rack is a quality home, but I kinda see where OP is coming from in terms of "hoarding." To each his or her own, but for me I can't imagine having more than a couple snakes. Not talking about breeding but just pets, after a few snakes don't you start to lose the feeling of "this is my pet," and it starts to become "these are my responsibilities?"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BPGator

She may actually burn herself rather than cool off. If you're on a budget, order a Jumpstart thermostat off of Amazon. It's like $30. You should have a thermometer taking a reading of the glass temp right next to your UTH (under the substrate). That temperature should not exceed 90°F.


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Went and got one, thank you for letting me know!

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Originally Posted by DLena

An unregulated UTH will hit the 120 degree mark in under 45 minutes AND KEEP CLIMBING. I tested one, and unplugged it after it hit 147. It took under an hour. No amount of aspen is going to protect against that. You know the saying about how to boil a frog? If you put it into boiling water, it struggles to get out. If you put it in tepid water and slowly bring the water to a boil, it never realizes what's happening and it dies. Same thing with snakes. If the pet store let you walk out with a new snake, UTH, and no thermostat, AND NEVER COUNSELLED YOU TO GET A THERMOSTAT, but they sent you out the door with everything g else, right down to 2 hides (good) and a lamp (unnecessary), then shame on them. Maybe they just didn't have one to sell you...

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They had one but apparently the girl helping me knew very little. Had it plugged on for a week so hopfully shell be ok. What would I look for to make sure shes ok?