Baby ATB That Refuses to Eat

My dad got a baby ATB (Canada Day baby) through a trade around the beginning of September, so far the baby has refused to eat for him. He says he's tried everything, live, scenting, braining of mouse pinkies. Supposedly it had eaten before he got it.

I have the snake now, to see what I can do. I need information, tips, anything. I'm researching, about to go and buy some extra supplies.

My dad thinks there's something wrong with the little guy, but to me it looks like a snake that has not eaten and is getting a little weak.

I'm switching it from a small exo terra tank to a bin with a little height. He was using a red bulb for heat but I'm wanting to get a heat pad, is it possible to mount a heat pad to the side and mount a hide in the same spot? Will he be able to get the heat from the heat pad in the hide like that?

Here's a quick pic
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...d5fc2ad08c.jpg
I just need to get him set up proper right now and leave him be. He needs it.

I'm off to research while I wait for responses!

I use a radiant heat panel inside of a pvc enclosure to heat my ATB. I wouldn't use a heat mat. You could buy some thick acrylic sheet to cover the screen top of the exoterra, drill some holes for ventilation, and mount a panel to it. It will provide heat, while keeping the humidity. I aim for 70% with my baby. Black out 3 of the sides with black construction paper for security. Modifying the current enclosure would be slightly less stressful than a total rehome. And perches for climbing are a must for these arboreal sweeties. Let it settle in a few days, and offer a large pinky or small fuzzy, warm to the touch. I'd go for a feeder around the same size as the widest part of the snake's body.

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So, I'm thinking of using a regulated heat pad to cover the bottom, with the cypress mulch that should bump up humidity? How does one go about offering heat for the perches in a tub/bin cage with a plastic lid?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eavlynn

I use a radiant heat panel inside of a pvc enclosure to heat my ATB. I wouldn't use a heat mat. You could buy some thick acrylic sheet to cover the screen top of the exoterra, drill some holes for ventilation, and mount a panel to it. It will provide heat, while keeping the humidity. I aim for 70% with my baby. Black out 3 of the sides with black construction paper for security. Modifying the current enclosure would be slightly less stressful than a total rehome. And perches for climbing are a must for these arboreal sweeties. Let it settle in a few days, and offer a large pinky or small fuzzy, warm to the touch. I'd go for a feeder around the same size as the widest part of the snake's body.

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You responded at the same time as me! Oops.

I'm not sure where to go about getting an RHP, though. I've not seen them in any stores, even in the reptile store in town. Maybe I just haven't noticed because I haven't looked before.

Can you elaborate a little about the acrylic sheet and RHP thing? I'm not handy at all, even such a simple task like that confuses me. Haha



I do have him in the bin right now, though.

We are going out shortly once I know everything I need.
I've got heat regulation, so I need a good proper heat source..
Gotta get a good thermometer and hygrometer..
Perches..

I get heat panels from Bob at ProProducts. They are UL certified, which is great. The acrylic sheets are clear like glass, durable, and can usually be cut to size at the hardware store you purchase them from. Then you just silicone the edges for a good seal and presto. I don't know if I'd use a RHP in a bin set up, but they work great for modified exoterra enclosures and pvc enclosures. I swear by them if you can't tell haha.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eavlynn

I get heat panels from Bob at ProProducts. They are UL certified, which is great. The acrylic sheets are clear like glass, durable, and can usually be cut to size at the hardware store you purchase them from. Then you just silicone the edges for a good seal and presto. I don't know if I'd use a RHP in a bin set up, but they work great for modified exoterra enclosures and pvc enclosures. I swear by them if you can't tell haha.

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Ahhhh, I suspected I would have to order online! I'm not sure I can order online right now, RHP was the first thing that crossed my mind though.

Baby looks to be in good shape. they are thin long boas with skinny necks. Shouldn't need to go to the trouble of braining feeders for an ATB that was already established. I keep my atbs rather minimal with paper substrate, perches, hide and water bowl (some don't have hides, especially adults but most atbs will use a hide if given the option). For a young one, I set up in a tub and use garden fencing as the 'perch'. I usually put in fake foliage for cover as well. (photo below of my typical set up for little ones).

ATBs will usually take f/t without issue. For a reluctant feeder, heat it up. Use a blow dryer or hold it next to a hot lightbulb or whatever method you want. They go for heat. Don't overdo offering food; offer, if it doesn't eat, give it 3-5 days rest then try again. Approach the atb with the feeder on tongs. It may get defensive and strike but not grab. What I find works well is then start moving the feeder away from the snake. They will usually start tongue flicking and following it. This is how they turn from defensive into hunt mode and usually will then take it. If it's just being strikey and not taking it, sometimes bumping them on the side of the neck (one or two S curves back from the head) will elicit a strike and grab. If you want to offer live, a fuzzy mouse should be fine, just drop in the tub and leave it alone (at night time).

I can't help with the heating, I keep mine in a heated snake room and my min temps in the room are their ideal temps so I do not offer any additional heating for the ATB cages and tubs. A regulated heat pad under the tub should be fine.

I hope some of this helps, good luck.

http://i332.photobucket.com/albums/m...TBtubs3_12.jpg
http://i332.photobucket.com/albums/m...Boas/Rory1.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AbsoluteApril

Baby looks to be in good shape. they are thin long boas with skinny necks. Shouldn't need to go to the trouble of braining feeders for an ATB that was already established. I keep my atbs rather minimal with paper substrate, perches, hide and water bowl (some don't have hides, especially adults but most atbs will use a hide if given the option). For a young one, I set up in a tub and use garden fencing as the 'perch'. I usually put in fake foliage for cover as well. (photo below of my typical set up for little ones).

ATBs will usually take f/t without issue. For a reluctant feeder, heat it up. Use a blow dryer or hold it next to a hot lightbulb or whatever method you want. They go for heat. Don't overdo offering food; offer, if it doesn't eat, give it 3-5 days rest then try again. Approach the atb with the feeder on tongs. It may get defensive and strike but not grab. What I find works well is then start moving the feeder away from the snake. They will usually start tongue flicking and following it. This is how they turn from defensive into hunt mode and usually will then take it. If it's just being strikey and not taking it, sometimes bumping them on the side of the neck (one or two S curves back from the head) will elicit a strike and grab. If you want to offer live, a fuzzy mouse should be fine, just drop in the tub and leave it alone (at night time).

I can't help with the heating, I keep mine in a heated snake room and my min temps in the room are their ideal temps so I do not offer any additional heating for the ATB cages and tubs. A regulated heat pad under the tub should be fine.

I hope some of this helps, good luck.

http://i332.photobucket.com/albums/m...TBtubs3_12.jpg
http://i332.photobucket.com/albums/m...Boas/Rory1.jpg

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Very helpful. Thank you! I think I'm going to mimic your setup with the garden fence and the fake plant. I'm going to try the heat pad and cypress mulch, though.

They like the lower temps, yes? I've been reading that they prefer 80-82.

80-85 is good but you don't want it going into the 90s for prolonged periods.

Okay, awesome. Thank you very much.

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I think the babe may actually have just taken a pinky. My dad gave me a live pinky, though I wasn't going to try feeding the little guy for a few days to let him settle, I had the pinky a little too close to a heat lamp while I was out and it died, so I tried... struck the tongs/pinky a couple times with a hiss and then grabbed the pinky. I'm not sure if maybe his teeth just got stuck in it, but I quickly put the lid on the bin and I'll check in a few minutes.

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Weeeoo. It ate!

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Congratulations!

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Thanks. 😁 I'm proud even though I didn't really change anything yet, haha.. I'm just the snake whisperer.;)

This is how I've got it set up right now, too much? http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...47ba3ddf38.jpg

Looks good! They love foliage, at least my little girl does.

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Awesome. 😊 Hopefully he'll come out and perch on the vine/branches at some point.

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Went in to mist him and saw that he's taken a liking to the fake plant, too cute.http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...5913216964.jpg

ETA: There is a water dish in there! You can't see it in the first photo, hiding in the back underneath the plant, beside the piece of wood.

It's gonna be a sad day when I have to give him back lol

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One thing I will add. I have bred Amazons about 15 times. All of the babies I eve produced ate defrost fluff mice from their first shed. The fluff retains the heat signature a little longer. I would mist the enclosure heavily in the late evening. Then I would super heat the fluff (e.g., a room temperature defrosted fluff held under hairdryer on hot setting for 30 seconds or so. Then offered to the snake on long forceps. If the snake did not take it, I would tap the snake on the side of the neck or tip of the tail. If the snake did nothing but flee, it was not ready to eat. I would try again a few days later. An area with a hide, whether a plastic hide or plant, works great, and then the last thing is a mesh/intertwined perching area. With the temperature at 85oF, and the humidity high (you need to maintain good airflow also, so I would have a live pothos plant in every enclosure), I never had an issue.

Warren

Thanks, Warren. I appreciate the info!

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I guess you'll just have to get an ATB of your own when the time comes to give him back :)

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Definitely. 😁

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Does anybody know any breeders in Canada?

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Negative on that. Where did your dad find his?

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Some guy, not sure. He said he texted him and asked if they've got anymore, and said that they're trying to breed or something. Definitely not any big name breeder or anything.

Know any good places in the states?

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I don't personally know of any good ATB breeders. I got my girl from a friend, who received her as a freebie from a breeder he knows lol. If that isn't confusing enough.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fraido

Does anybody know any breeders in Canada?

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Het Fraido, just try googling Amazon Tree Boa and see what's there. IDK anyone in particular but there are several listings for the U.S. Good luck and a very nice job with the little guy. :gj:

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Originally Posted by Albert Clark

Het Fraido, just try googling Amazon Tree Boa and see what's there. IDK anyone in particular but there are several listings for the U.S. Good luck and a very nice job with the little guy. :gj:

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Tries a brief Google search, will have to look a little more thorough. :) Thank you!

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Originally Posted by Eavlynn

I don't personally know of any good ATB breeders. I got my girl from a friend, who received her as a freebie from a breeder he knows lol. If that isn't confusing enough.

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Lol, sounds like a good deal!

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We used to have the amazon alliance website which was amazing and there were breeders from all over. Sadly they moved to facebook (I'm not on facebook) but you can post/join there and I'm sure they can get you in touch with someone that can help.
https://www.facebook.com/The-Amazon-...8846957141012/
I know some breeders through the alliance but all in the US and most ATB 'breeders' are hobby breeders, I'm not sure who would be able to export.
hope this helps! -April (the 'amazon queen of the west coast' as I was known on the alliance, feel free to tell Mike I referred you.)

actually I think that is the old link from when it was set up with the website. They started a new group, it's private, I can't find the link right now but it's hard to do that since I'm not on FB. :(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AbsoluteApril

actually I think that is the old link from when it was set up with the website. They started a new group, it's private, I can't find the link right now but it's hard to do that since I'm not on FB. :(

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That's okay! :) I don't use Facebook either. [emoji14]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...2355ce60a8.jpg
OMNOMNOM. This is actually his third feeding, I gave him another pinky the next day (after his first), had taken all three once hot enough.

First was freshly killed (oops) and heated up in front of a lamp.
Second was live, held in front of a lamp very briefly, wasn't showing much interest before warming it.
This one was F/T, thawed in hot water and also held in front of the lamp.

😊👍

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fraido

Does anybody know any breeders in Canada?

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Fraido, this gentleman may be able to help you or at least point you in the right direction:

Henry Piorn
piorn@uniserve.com

604-820-9324

Henry Piornpiorn Reptiles, Mission, BC Canada

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Albert Clark

Fraido, this gentleman may be able to help you or at least point you in the right direction:

Henry Piorn
piorn@uniserve.com

604-820-9324

Henry Piornpiorn Reptiles, Mission, BC Canada

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Thanks!:)

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...033c7dace2.jpg

Well look who's clearly growing! Haha

Glad you got him eating.

Thanks!

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Hmmm, apparently the humidity is off. Checked on him this morning and he has made no progress, just looks like a leathery string. Poor guy. I always kept it between 70 and 85, occasional bumps higher when I misted him. Is that too much?

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Not totally uncommon for bad sheds to happen. Especially if recent cage change. Also too much humidity? no such thing with an ATB haha Seriously though, humidity is tough, if there is too much air flow your initial readings can dry up really quick, not enough air flow can cause mold so it's a tough balance.

I only mist when I see them going into shed but have naturally decent humidity in my area. Every once in a while I'll get a bad shed (mostly the one that has a screen top tank of course). I know a lot of people on this site say never soak but I've have had good results from soaking. What I do for an ATB is get a towel wet (or for a really little one, a bunch of moss), wring it out and put in a tub with the amazon over a heat pad and let sit for at least an hour. Then either put ATB back in cage and they get it off themselves or help hand shed them if they seem agreeable. If you don't want to go the soaking route, just keep misting, maybe dump the water bowl and hopefully he'll get it off.
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...Soak10_09b.jpg

Okay, thank you. I'll bump the humidity up real high for a day or two and if that doesn't help I'll go the soaking route!

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Gave him a mist and checked on him, I could see that it was past his head so he is making progress, just slow progress. Hopefully he has made more by morning!

I literally had no idea he was going into shed. Lol I had even taken him out and checked him out a few hours before I check lastnight and noticed he had started.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...a9b705b8bc.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...8e5b2f0504.jpg
Second photo is a weird colour, lol, but I thought it made it look cool.

I slid some shed off of him earlier, bottom half has it all off, no stuck eye caps, but it's still stuck to his upper half decently. Soak tomorrow if he doesn't get the rest off or if I can't gently slide it off tomorrow.

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He's good 😌
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...46447f3d8f.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...6327a4d23b.jpg

He's actually really not into biting, if he's sleeping in his vines and you touch him he'll bring his head around with a hiss, but he'll sit there pretty much the entire time postured.. no striking. If you were to poke near his head, or if you gently grabbed him there, he might strike, but he's a decent little guy.

He's too cute! I'm glad he was able to work the shed off. It's odd that they have such a bad rep for biting, because our little ATB isn't much of a biter either.

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It is good! I'm glad, no soak was necessary.

Yeah, I mean, he is the only ATB that I've ever handled, and he tracks like mad but he has yet to strike at my movie hand. Even when I was sliding the shed off if his bottom half, he didn't try biting, he just peed all over me. Lol He did try to bite when I was messing with the shed near his head though, which is understandable.

I'll keep his humidity up nice and high, I'm not really worried about mold, so if he has another shed still while I have him then it should be a good one!

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We keep our gal in the 70s for humidity, and she's done great.

She's always coiled, but doesn't nip unless you get close to her head, like your little dude. I seriously can't get over their faces! Absolutely precious :)

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It's strange that he had troubles shedding, then. I suppose every snake is different!

I love the bug-eye look they have! Lol

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Crappy sheds happen from time to time, it seems. Even if husbandry is perfect. I'm sure his next one will go much smoother.

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I weighed him yesterday, he is a whopping 24g, WHAT A FATTY! 😉 I wish I had weighed him when I first started snakesitting him, to compare.

He just had two pinkies, and this time he was a hungry little guy! Took each one as soon as it was in front of his face. Yay!

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...9a8b446217.jpg

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...b736eb57bc.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...b7a9771227.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...b90192ccff.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...d8da007a94.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...b818bc8805.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...90911592b3.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...4adaa07a29.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...1eaa63f193.jpg

Mini photoshoot with the little dude and my Xbox controller for a size comparison. Lol The photos make him look rather bright right now when he is actually quite dark.