AP T8 Sufficient?

Hello Everyone,

I purchased an Albino Red Tail Boa two years ago (don't know his age at the time but he was fairly small) who is currently right around 4ft in length as of two days ago, he has been sitting in a 30 gallon aquarium since i bought him then. I just think its time for an upgrade for him, and i want to get him out of glass into something easier to maintain. Would an AP T8 be an appropriate sized final enclosure for him or would a future upgrade be required?

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Originally Posted by jdmwoody

Hello Everyone,

I purchased an Albino Red Tail Boa two years ago (don't know his age at the time but he was fairly small) who is currently right around 4ft in length as of two days ago, he has been sitting in a 30 gallon aquarium since i bought him then. I just think its time for an upgrade for him, and i want to get him out of glass into something easier to maintain. Would an AP T8 be an appropriate sized final enclosure for him or would a future upgrade be required?

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Without knowing age or genetic background it's hard to say. If he is 2-4 years old, his growth will certainly slow.

I would personally go a bit larger. I think something 18" tall would be good and you could keep the 48" footprint and go 30" deep.

A T-8 is doable, but having an active BC is worth a bit of extra $$$.

They will display a wider range of natural behaviors when given options.

I think my only gripe there would be that a AP T11 48x24x18 costs over double the T8 with sliding glass option... I already planned on buying an additional T8 and dividing it for my two ball pythons. So turning a $300 purchase (only cages) into a $480 purchase i might as well just buy 3 AP T8s and giving one to each snake.

I do understand what you mean about natural behaviors and viewing purposes, my boa as of now spends 80% of the time in his hides which makes me think the extra $180 for 6 more inches of roof clearance wouldn't really be worth it? I may be wrong and missing something here but i want to thank you for posting ^.^

I'd pay for it but that's just my opinion.

http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/y...a/IMG_3585.jpg
48" x 30" x 20". I wish it was 24" tall minimum.

I even have our royal in a 48" x 24" x 14".

It's all up to you, but boas are semi arboreal and normally will use whatever space you give them.

I would go with a T10. I got all my gals in T10s with a shelf and it works fine. If after a couple years, the T10 gets small, you can always upgrade to a T25 which is what I probably will do in a couple years and then just use the T10s for something else. I have both Constrictor NW and Animal Plastic cages and I personally like the AP cages much better. They are all smoothed out around the corners and the shelf is nice and they are built very solid. They only downside is they are heavier but again, I like then a lot more. Plus the door opening on the T10s is just over 10" while the 48x24x14 Constrictor NW cage is only 8". That 2" makes a huge difference in getting my big gal out without banging her on the door opening, plus like I said, the AP ones are all smoothed an finished on the door openings. Like Gio said, without genetics, who knows but if you ask most breeders, a lot keep them in T10s with shelves. Its the biggest you can go without a huge upsize in shipping cost. For example, the T25 will cost me $229.00 shipping vs $50.00 for a T10.

Oh also forgot, be prepared for a 3+ month wait for cages lol. I waited 13 weeks for my 3 AP10s I ordered over the summer. That's the only downside, otherwise the cages are really nice and Ali is awesome to deal with. I will definitely be getting all my cages from AP from now on :)

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

I would go with a T10. I got all my gals in T10s with a shelf and it works fine.

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What do you use to heat and regulate your T10s?

I use flexwatt with Herpstats. I just ordered all my T10s with shelves, locks, flexwatt and white LED lighting. I just wanted a plug and play unit and not have to drill and route wiring since I stacked my cages. I keep my house around 75-78F so its plenty warm ambientwise. I use a Pro Products PH3 65 watt RHP for my Constrictors NW cage but atm that cage is empty and I am probably going to just throw it up on my local craigslist and sell it and just order a couple more AP cages.

Also some snakes are just more active than others. My big girl Rosey ALWAYS wants to explore around the house. She really only likes the cage when she wants to sleep lol. Vicky is more laid back and mostly just sits stetched out on the cage floor or up on the shelf recently. I would definitely get a shelf though as its only $30 extra and it is nicely made. Its about 8" wide and extends across the whole back of the cage. It serves as a perch as well as a "hide" as my boas seem to like to curl up under it and not even use hides. Heck even my BP loves the shelf. She loves it more than my boas I think as she is usually crawling around on it nightly. She is the arboreal BP lol.

I've got my boa in a T13 with a shelf. It's a great enclosure with a decent bit of space. They're on sale right now, as well. Then again, so is the T10. I think the extra height and width is worth the money, because it also allows to add bars, or other platforms which increases surface area within the enclosure. But it's entirely up to you. Your boy is on the smaller end of the scale, so you may or may not need to upgrade in the future.

As for heating, I have 9 PVC enclosures, most of them from AP, and I have proheat radiant heat panels in every one of them. They are the best heat source I've found, and I can't say enough good things about them.

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Good advice above. I think I'd just go with the largest you can afford. It will certainly not be a negative having a larger unit.

This will be the next cage manufacturer I buy from.

Pre-built and STRONG. You can stand on the top of these.

Of course I would drive to go pick mine up and save huge $$ on shipping.

https://www.facebook.com/monstercage...1&l=52a8bcb389

Ultimately the decision is yours. Some folks keep boas in tubs.

If you are a breeder and need efficiency and space, go that route.

If you actually want to enjoy your animal, provide the appropriate size for it and you probably will see some interesting behaviors.

I think Sauzo is right on with the T-10 and a shelf. T-13,,,, even better IMO.

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Originally Posted by Gio

I'd pay for it but that's just my opinion.

http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/y...a/IMG_3585.jpg
48" x 30" x 20". I wish it was 24" tall minimum.

I even have our royal in a 48" x 24" x 14".

It's all up to you, but boas are semi arboreal and normally will use whatever space you give them.

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That set up is awesome :D I just got a couple of boas and was looking into animal plastics for at least the male, who's about 5' long, do you have any more pics of your set up. I would love to do something like this for my boy and the girl eventually.

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Originally Posted by Artemisace

That set up is awesome :D I just got a couple of boas and was looking into animal plastics for at least the male, who's about 5' long, do you have any more pics of your set up. I would love to do something like this for my boy and the girl eventually.

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Thank you.

That is very nice of you to say.

I do have some other pictures.
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/y...a/IMG_2658.jpg

I really wish I'd gone with 24" tall here instead of 20" but you often learn as you go. I was concerned heating 24" tall would be an issue. It isn't at all.

Especially when you stack a 14" tall with a royal on the top.
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/y...a/IMG_2656.jpg

I'm not exaggerating when I say boas WILL use space. 85% of feedings look like this.
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/y...a/IMG_2596.jpg

http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/y...a/IMG_2601.jpg


This is why I always recommend going as large as possible. I started small and worked up and every time I move up, I reflect and wonder why I just didn't skip the extra steps and get the cage I wanted from the start.

http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/y...a/IMG_2322.jpg

Granted you will have a smaller cage for a neonate or very juvenile BC. Once they are confident and established, treat yourself and the snake.

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Originally Posted by Gio

Thank you.

That is very nice of you to say.

I do have some other pictures.
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/y...a/IMG_2658.jpg

I really wish I'd gone with 24" tall here instead of 20" but you often learn as you go. I was concerned heating 24" tall would be an issue. It isn't at all.

Especially when you stack a 14" tall with a royal on the top.
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/y...a/IMG_2656.jpg

I'm not exaggerating when I say boas WILL use space. 85% of feedings look like this.
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/y...a/IMG_2596.jpg

http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/y...a/IMG_2601.jpg


This is why I always recommend going as large as possible. I started small and worked up and every time I move up, I reflect and wonder why I just didn't skip the extra steps and get the cage I wanted from the start.

http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/y...a/IMG_2322.jpg

Granted you will have a smaller cage for a neonate or very juvenile BC. Once they are confident and established, treat yourself and the snake.

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That is one incredible set up and definitely something I need to be taking notes on. My only question would be with large females, would they still take advantage of the verticality of the cage or at that point would be not as useful? I'm more referring to large females in the 7-8 foot range, and what I would guess would probably weigh 50+ pounds based on girth of the larger girls I've seen. I have read that the larger boas tend to become less arboreal with age, what would your thoughts on that be?

My big girl who is 6'+ uses her shelf on her T10 all the time to crawl around on. She also tries and climbs up lamps, drawers and shelves when I have her out. I like the look of Gio's cage but how do you keep it clean lol? When my girl goes, its a freakin tsunami in the cage and half the aspen in the cage is soaked lol. Spot cleaned for me with her involves scooping out half the aspen and then F10 that half the cage and replacing aspen. I couldn't keep a cage like that for her. Not to mention she just destroys everything when she's hungry. Shoves her heavy water dish around which I cant figure out she does it and used to shove her hide all over but since I removed it, now she will push aspen into her water dish lol.

And as the saying goes......that's why we cant have nice stuff......lol

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

My big girl who is 6'+ uses her shelf on her T10 all the time to crawl around on. She also tries and climbs up lamps, drawers and shelves when I have her out. I like the look of Gio's cage but how do you keep it clean lol? When my girl goes, its a freakin tsunami in the cage and half the aspen in the cage is soaked lol. Spot cleaned for me with her involves scooping out half the aspen and then F10 that half the cage and replacing aspen. I couldn't keep a cage like that for her. Not to mention she just destroys everything when she's hungry. Shoves her heavy water dish around which I cant figure out she does it and used to shove her hide all over but since I removed it, now she will push aspen into her water dish lol.

And as the saying goes......that's why we cant have nice stuff......lol

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My male is almost 7 feet long. I feed him once every 25 days to once per month. He is easy to clean up after. There is not much to clean. If needed I can get every perch/branch out in 60 seconds or less. There are 2 floor hides and that's about it.

Substrate is a mix of cypress and coco husk. I would take an equal amount of time with news print to change it of and clean under the print. News print is fully replace not spot cleaned. If I replace all my sub, it will take longer, but when I do that I'm doing a complete cage clean.

As far as BIG females, it all depends. I don't think there are many females in the wild BCC or BCI (BC or BI) that weigh that much. 35 pounds is a big, big wild Suri or really any boa and that could be a 12 footer weighing 35 pounds.

This is a BIG boa and it is using some larger branches.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oK9g0MyUEeI


You obviously need to adjust the size of the cage and perches relative to the size of your snake.

Most snakes in captivity, especially boas are over fed.

Being over fed will limit activity and give you what most consider a "typical, boring boa". Not so if you follow Vincent Russo's advice or Gus Rentfro's advice.

I'm a bit off track here but a display cage is a little extra work but well worth it if you want to watch and enjoy your snake. I could have a sterile, low ceiling cage and clean it slightly faster. The thing is those feeding pictures I posted would be something I'd never see. I enjoy the bigger, decked out cages.

It is my preference and it is not for everybody. But if you like it and want to do it, I'd say go for it.

Having a female boa is not an automatic curse when it comes to size. Lean and healthy boas of either sex will become active when fed properly. I'm not talking about starving them either. Frequency and seasonality are huge factors.

I'd bet my male is bigger than some females at least in length. He will maybe,,,,,, maybe hit 20 pounds at some point, but I recognize he is full grown at 4 plus years old.

He will eat 1 more time this year and then I'll drop temps and let him ride until late March without food.

His activity will also decrease with the seasonal change.

This is a normal cycle.

Yeah, if I went 25 days with no food for Rosey, she would probably pull the shelf down in the Ap cage lol. When she gets hungry, she starts pushing and pacing the front of the cage and stuff. When she is content, she is either curled up in a loose circle or just stretched out. So i'm guessing you don't change out the cypress every month then? That probably saves you time then. I throw out everyones aspen once a month and do full spray downs with F10 and then new aspen. So it takes me a bit. Then spraying down and washing the hides as well as the jungles pvc gym, it takes a bit to clean them all lol. Not to mention Rosey loves to body paint her cage with poop :mad: She broke in the AP cage by making "snake tracks" of poop all over her shelf lol. So glad the shelves are removable so I can just spray them down and hose em off.

And yeah, your male is longer than my biggest female. Rosey is between 6-7' and about 4 years old. Vicky is about 5' and 3 years old. Difference is Rosey has girth, she is probably a little thicker than a pop can where as Vicky is only about as thick as probably a Red Bull can so shes got some mass to put on probably in a year or so.

And there is no way I could go all winter without feeding them. They would probably break out of the cages and eat me lol. I believe I read somewhere that The Boaphile feeds his adult females every 2 weeks and his males once a month. Maybe I should have bought males haha. All my girls here love to eat. The carpet just shed tonight and about 5 mins after shed, she grabbed a mouse I offered her. And the little dumerils girl is turning into a garbage can already at 2 months old lol.

Also with your BP, is yours scared of medium rats? My girl slams small rats once a week like a champ and used to eat medium rats but now she seems scared of medium rats but still slams small rats lol. Weird little BP.

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

Yeah, if I went 25 days with no food for Rosey, she would probably pull the shelf down in the Ap cage lol. When she gets hungry, she starts pushing and pacing the front of the cage and stuff. When she is content, she is either curled up in a loose circle or just stretched out. So i'm guessing you don't change out the cypress every month then? That probably saves you time then. I throw out everyones aspen once a month and do full spray downs with F10 and then new aspen. So it takes me a bit. Then spraying down and washing the hides as well as the jungles pvc gym, it takes a bit to clean them all lol. Not to mention Rosey loves to body paint her cage with poop :mad: She broke in the AP cage by making "snake tracks" of poop all over her shelf lol. So glad the shelves are removable so I can just spray them down and hose em off.

And yeah, your male is longer than my biggest female. Rosey is between 6-7' and about 4 years old. Vicky is about 5' and 3 years old. Difference is Rosey has girth, she is probably a little thicker than a pop can where as Vicky is only about as thick as probably a Red Bull can so shes got some mass to put on probably in a year or so.

And there is no way I could go all winter without feeding them. They would probably break out of the cages and eat me lol. I believe I read somewhere that The Boaphile feeds his adult females every 2 weeks and his males once a month. Maybe I should have bought males haha. All my girls here love to eat. The carpet just shed tonight and about 5 mins after shed, she grabbed a mouse I offered her. And the little dumerils girl is turning into a garbage can already at 2 months old lol.

Also with your BP, is yours scared of medium rats? My girl slams small rats once a week like a champ and used to eat medium rats but now she seems scared of medium rats but still slams small rats lol. Weird little BP.

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Hi, no,,, the royal eats large rats and only live. She's a freak.

Try dropping your temps in the winter (for the boas) and feeding a bit larger in the regular season. I have fed large, 1.8 pound rabbits on occasion and then I will feed a much smaller rat or quail the next go.

My male is as thick as a soda can, maybe more-so and will eat frequently if offered, they all will, but that's not really a good thing. There isn't anything for my guy to push in his cage other than the front door. He has 2 hides, a plant and a huge corner water bowel. The water bowel is snug up against 3 sides of the cage so that isn't going anywhere. The hides are in the end corners and secure.

The substrate is easy to clean. I don't like aspen as it isn't absorbent and molds quickly. I only use it in the royal's cage.

If your female is that busy, you may want to upsize the cage or lower your temps this winter/fall season. My cage is a lot larger than a T-10. It is 5 inches taller, and 6 inches deeper. The 4 huge perches easily equal a shelf and are utilized nightly.

The over the winter fast isn't an invention of mine, but rather a practiced method by probably 2 of the most knowledgable boa keepers on the planet. I actually think Russo credits Eugene Bassett for the seasonal break.

In the wild there are certain times of year where food is scarce and boas simply don't eat. The temp changes are very, very subtle in their natural habitat but they occur along with a rainy and dry season, light cycle changes and variants in pressure.

Everybody has their ways and I guess it best to do what works for you, but if you are suggesting a female boa, large or small can't be set up in a display unit, I'd disagree. I think your big girl would do well in a bigger AP unit.

If I could offer my BC an 8 foot cage that was 3 feet deep and 3 feet tall I certainly would.

This is where we ALL have to live with our limitations.

It comes down to what we personally want that is at minimum, reasonable for our pets.

Yeah, I've been debating ordering her a T25 and my sunglow girl one too. I'll have to save up some as both of those with the bells and whistles that I got now on the T10s will set me back about $1400-$1600. Not too bad really as the 3 T10s set me back just over $1100. Also I'm going to need a T12 for my jungle come spring so I think that's another around $500. Might also just order the 1 T25 for Rosey, give the dumerils the T10 and then order the T12 for the jungle and then order the other T25 towards fall.

And i'm not saying a female cant be put in a display set up. I'm saying MY female cant lol. It might also have something to do with I have her out a lot so she gets antsy sometimes and just wants outside to roam I guess. My sunglow girl is fairly quiet and sits on her shelf and stuff but I also didn't have her out every other day like I did with my first one, Rosey. She was always out on me so maybe she is imprinted with being out. She can be a complete terror in the cage and once you take her out and sit down with her for a few, she relaxes and gets nice and quiet lol. Weird boa but she is my favorite even though she is a mutt lol.

Hmm weird you didn't find aspen absorbent. The stuff sucks up piss like a sponge for me. I have heard it molds easily but I know the minute it is wet as the humidity gauges are spiked at like 80%+ and when I open the doors, you can smell the pee. I actually had the opposite with Eco Earth. That stuff molded on me and molded all the wood I had in the cage. That's when I had to take the cage apart and scrub everything down and I threw out all the wood. After that, I talked to a few people and they turned me on to the big bails of American Excelsior aspen. Loved the stuff since then but then again, I go with more of a 'basic" set up as I have to clean 5 snakes and 1 beardie. A lot easier to just scoop the aspen, vacuum the remains, spray down the cages with F10, let it soak, wipe it out and throw in new aspen lol. Then wash the hides and water bowls and move on to the next gal.

But yeah like you said, each person has stuff that works for them and doesn't and it doesn't work for everyone. And holy cow!! Your male BP eats large rats!!?? My gal is just over 4' and she is scared of medium rats lol. She slams her smalls every week though. Weird BPs lol.

I couldn't imagine having to deal with live rats or mice, ugh. So glad all mine eat F/T. Heck, if my carpet doesn't switch to rats, ill still be happy that at least she eats F/T mice even though it will probably end costing me a fortune to just feed her lol.

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

Yeah, I've been debating ordering her a T25 and my sunglow girl one too. I'll have to save up some as both of those with the bells and whistles that I got now on the T10s will set me back about $1400-$1600. Not too bad really as the 3 T10s set me back just over $1100. Also I'm going to need a T12 for my jungle come spring so I think that's another around $500. Might also just order the 1 T25 for Rosey, give the dumerils the T10 and then order the T12 for the jungle and then order the other T25 towards fall.

And i'm not saying a female cant be put in a display set up. I'm saying MY female cant lol. It might also have something to do with I have her out a lot so she gets antsy sometimes and just wants outside to roam I guess. My sunglow girl is fairly quiet and sits on her shelf and stuff but I also didn't have her out every other day like I did with my first one, Rosey. She was always out on me so maybe she is imprinted with being out. She can be a complete terror in the cage and once you take her out and sit down with her for a few, she relaxes and gets nice and quiet lol. Weird boa but she is my favorite even though she is a mutt lol.

Hmm weird you didn't find aspen absorbent. The stuff sucks up piss like a sponge for me. I have heard it molds easily but I know the minute it is wet as the humidity gauges are spiked at like 80%+ and when I open the doors, you can smell the pee. I actually had the opposite with Eco Earth. That stuff molded on me and molded all the wood I had in the cage. That's when I had to take the cage apart and scrub everything down and I threw out all the wood. After that, I talked to a few people and they turned me on to the big bails of American Excelsior aspen. Loved the stuff since then but then again, I go with more of a 'basic" set up as I have to clean 5 snakes and 1 beardie. A lot easier to just scoop the aspen, vacuum the remains, spray down the cages with F10, let it soak, wipe it out and throw in new aspen lol. Then wash the hides and water bowls and move on to the next gal.

But yeah like you said, each person has stuff that works for them and doesn't and it doesn't work for everyone. And holy cow!! Your male BP eats large rats!!?? My gal is just over 4' and she is scared of medium rats lol. She slams her smalls every week though. Weird BPs lol.

I couldn't imagine having to deal with live rats or mice, ugh. So glad all mine eat F/T. Heck, if my carpet doesn't switch to rats, ill still be happy that at least she eats F/T mice even though it will probably end costing me a fortune to just feed her lol.

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That sunglow would look fantastic perched up high in a big T-25 or bigger.

Yeah the royal takes large rats. It is a female and she will go VERY long stints without eating. She is just over 4' and not very thick. But she eats big when she does.

I'm at my limit with 4 snakes here. I agree after a certain amount the joy and relaxation of beautiful displays turns into a chore.

I'm just trying to get the O/P set up without regrets later on.

I seem to always wish I bought bigger after about a year.

The retic is going to get a 6 foot 30inch x 24-30 inch tall cage when the time comes.

Go as big as you can afford and have the room for. Can't go wrong with a taller, wider or longer setup when it comes to more active snakes imo. I have an almost six foot bc in a boaphile 421 but he's getting upgraded to an 8' taller enclosure. My yearling dumeril is in a 322 which is taller and I doubt I will get him a tall adult cage since he never leaves the bottom so it depends on the species but I think they should have room to stretch out and the boas do move around a lot. The dum trashes his decorations all the time.

Jumping into the other discussions lol. Aspen quality varies greatly from what I've seen. I get that cheap coarsely shredded stuff sometimes for the rodents and it sucks. But I use a couple different brands that are finely shredded and work great. I keep a few snakes on it. I usually swap it up every order to try a new substrate option. Liking the reptichip currently.

My male bp eats small or medium rats now, after a decade of mice. I have him on the same schedule as the bigger snakes, every 3 weeks, much to his displeasure but he used to fast all winter on live so I'm hoping spreading out meals will keep him eating now.

I have a couple of ball pythons that are weird when it comes to food, but all my ball pythons will ONLY eat live. It can be quite frustrating... and expensive... but I'm just happy they eat. Going to try my bigger females on FT again this weekend and hope for the best as they are my big breeder girls.

I had a carpet python for a bit and he switched over to rats for me really easily. I did scent the mice first then after a couple of those he moved over to rats. Ended up giving him to a friend who wanted a carpet python and he's doing very well for her :)

I guess in the end it all really depends on the snake as to what they do with the cage décor provided to them. I have my male hypo salmon in a 40 gallon tank and it is a nightmare trying to get that thing to hold temps let alone humidity. So switching to an AP cage makes a lot of sense for me. I want to switch my Anaconda into one as well, a much bigger one length and depth wise anyway. She is not a climber, unless being handled then she likes climbing on faces for some reason. Hopefully I'll be ordering my boa his AP cage in the next month and then working on putting together the set up materials while I wait for it to arrive.

To the OP it all depends on what you want to provide for your snake. No one method is best when it comes to all of this. I keep most of my snakes in a rack system in tubs and they do just fine, some people call me crazy for that, but I'm limited by the space I have for them, for now at least. I would suggest getting a bit of a longer and deeper for something like a boa, just because they are a medium sized snake. My ball pythons might live in racks, but they have very large tubs to stretch out in. I think everyone here can agree, do what works best for you and will make sure the animal is healthy and happy.

couple questions... what is f10, and can someone post a link for the american excesior bails please

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Originally Posted by erebus45

couple questions... what is f10, and can someone post a link for the american excesior bails please

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F10 is a disinfectant like Chlorhexadine. There is SC which is the disinfectant you can just let dry and is safe for the reptiles. Then there is SCXD which is a disinfectant plus a cleaner. You need to rinse the SCXD stuff off. Here's a link to all the cleaners. http://www.reptilebasics.com/cleaning-products

As for American Excelsior, I usually buy it from Bean Farm as I live by them but I don't see it on their lost. My god I hope they didn't quit carrying. Doug told me they might ditch it so I ended up picking up 3 bails from them. Omg wtf am I gonna do now!!?? :O

Thank you I will order me a bottle asap (coming up on the full cage clean) and for your sake I hope they don't quit carrying it

Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by erebus45

Thank you I will order me a bottle asap (coming up on the full cage clean) and for your sake I hope they don't quit carrying it

Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk

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They did, you can probably find it somewhere else if you want. I've been talking to some retic guys and boa guys and both seem to agree that Reptichips is awesome and very absorbent. So once my last 2 aspen bails run out, i'll probably switch over to that stuff.