Boa morph? Central American Morph? Big Girl

http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...3997927874.jpg

My new girl with a story to tell.

2008: Found in an apartment in Florida, a guy abandoned his apartment with hundreds of snakes in it. She was found in a drawer with 3 dead snakes, she had a bad RTI and was badly malnurished (most of the snakes were dead or had to be put down). The lady that took her in worked with the rescue assigned to the apartment. She's had her ever since (8 years). She thinks the snake was about 2yrs old when found. During the time she had her, a well known breeder said that she is an "American Morph" which Ive never heard of. A buddy of mine who has many boas said that she may be a 'Central American Morph' which is a smaller than normal boa with a bit more aggression (the lady was bit every once in a while the entire 8 years). The snake was sexted as a female but is only about 6.5' long, which is small for an 8-10 yr old boa. I know people can't really give me a lot based on just one picture but with all that being said, Any thoughts on the morph?

6.5 feet isn't small at all. Actually any BCI that is 8 feet long is considered quite large and really BCC for that matter.

I'm not interested in morphs and can't be sure, but that looks rather "non-morphish" to me.

In some ways those thin, pinched saddles resemble characteristics of a Peruvian BCC, as does the almost golden skin color.

I'm sure there are morphs with those characteristics but I'm at a loss and can only say this is is a very attractive animal and appears in great shape..

This is a BCI morph called a square tail.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mH6eTDLv1lo

Similar without the connected pattern, but I just don't know my morphs.

That's a sad story with a good ending! Glad you are able to take her in and give her the care she deserves. That's a great looking snake.

The well known breeder doesn't well know boas lol. There's no such thing as an "american" boa, unless you consider rosy boas or rubber boas american boas. That gorgeous girl is a very clean central american boa. She looks fantastic! Not sure on the morph.

She's a lucky girl, that's for sure. It's nice to see happy endings for reptiles in bad situations.

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LOL thank you! She may not have said well known but she did say the lady knows her boas but I think there might have been a miscommunication and she said Central American boa. At the same time though I don't know as much as even the lady I got her from (yet). She is a beautiful girl though I'll give her that and I'm glad to have the opportunity to take in such an amazing Survivor.

On a side note I showed that picture to 3 local breeders in my area two of which agreed that she Central one girl told me that she is a normal BCI. I have a normal BCI male who is almost as big as my new girl and he is not only darker than her but different colors and patterns completely

Actually,

This board has a C/A boa expert.

DR. Warren Booth would get you on the right track if he pops in here.

The thing is, and this goes for about any boa, without specific locality data it is impossible to tell what you have.

I will echo once again that you have a really pretty animal there no matter what it is.

Thank you! I hope he does stop in. Ive been doing some extra researching on boas since I got her and I gotta say, much more to it than BP's. I think I may have a new favorite species!

the cleanliness and unconnected saddles; could she be a pastel???
Just a shot in the dark: but i should like to echo Gio and assure you that whether she's some sort of morph or is just an especially clean normal (i prefer "wild-type"), she a beauty. Out of curiosity; you mentioned she was a little nippy with the former owner, how's your experience been thus far, how does she handle?

Surprisingly she's been nothing short of a gentle giant. The lady said that she gets snippy when putting her back in her enclosure so I've been very cautious when putting her back but so far she' completely opposite; she gets wiggly trying to take her out and goes in without any problem which I believe is because she's still getting acclimated and home is where she feels safe. I told the lady that I'm sure she will switch after another week or two, wanting to come out and not wanting to go back in.

Stunning snake. Certainly not a Central American. More likely Colombian, or a Colombian cross. She looks to be a stunning pastel. Nice snake. I would have it sexed again to confirm that its not a male.
Warren

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Originally Posted by Warren_Booth

Stunning snake. Certainly not a Central American. More likely Colombian, or a Colombian cross. She looks to be a stunning pastel. Nice snake. I would have it sexed again to confirm that its not a male.
Warren

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Somehow, in my head, I thought Columbia was in Central America. You'd think I'd know better, having 2 Columbian boas haha

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I actually had her sexed tonight along with my entire collection. The guy first thought she was a male, then checked my male, checked her again, and said she is definately a Female. That's the good news. Bad news is that 2 of my BP's that I thought were female ended up being male. The guy I got them from (almost 2 hours away I drove to buy them) swears they are female and said he is going to get their breeder paperwork out tomorrow and send it to me (paperwork dont mean much when I saw the piens and the difference with the probe depth in 3 males and 2 females). Good news is that they are still great snakes and I still got them for a decent price, and they were not meant to be bred this season so I have time to look for another nice female or two for next year. I did learn a valuable lesson today (one that I shouldve learned long ago).

On a side note...

Eavlynn....Its ironic that you posted here, I was looking at your snakes on another thread a month or so ago and saw the name "Zoe"..... I told my wife that the next snake I get I'm naming it Zoe and sure enough I now have a Bumblebee named Zoe. Lol just wanted to let you know I stole one of your names haha

Definitely a normal Boa imperator with no visible morph influence (could be het but could only find out through breeding and wouldn't bet on such small chances), whether or not it's pastel is debatable. I personally don't like to suggest the pastel label without knowing the snake's parentage, if the pastel lines have been muddied with non-pastel blood, or if the offspring is a particularly low expression pastel. It definitely has a bit of that pastel appearance to it, though. Very nicely bred at the very least.

Gorgeous girl and agree with Gio, 6.5' is not small by any means. Not all boas are set to reach X size, most females average about in the 7' range give or take a half a foot. 8' is large, not necessarily terribly uncommon, but still large.

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Originally Posted by MontyP2016

On a side note...

Eavlynn....Its ironic that you posted here, I was looking at your snakes on another thread a month or so ago and saw the name "Zoe"..... I told my wife that the next snake I get I'm naming it Zoe and sure enough I now have a Bumblebee named Zoe. Lol just wanted to let you know I stole one of your names haha

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I'm glad I could help with naming! Names are always a tough one for me. I don't mind at all if you use it. Again, I have to say congrats on this girl. She is stunning. I might be just a hint jealous. Can't wait to see more of her!

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Originally Posted by CloudtheBoa

whether or not it's pastel is debatable. I personally don't like to suggest the pastel label without knowing the snake's parentage, if the pastel lines have been muddied with non-pastel blood, or if the offspring is a particularly low expression pastel. It definitely has a bit of that pastel appearance to it, though. Very nicely bred at the very least.

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Personally I completely disagree with that. What is the likelihood that anyone will know the exact percentage of the bloodline that was pastel. Furthermore, given that pastel appears to be a polygenic traits, why does that matter because within the exact same pairing you can have high and low expression, yet be the exact same percentage.

The visual phenotype of this animal clearly is of a pastel. As such, calling it a pastel fits. In the 20 years I have been breeding boas, I have not seen many that are so clearly a pastel in fact. Now, being able to determine the lineage of pastel is impossible.

Warren

Maybe I was mixing pastel lines and being pastel in general up. I did agree it looked pastel, just thought you had to know its breeding to call it pastel.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by CloudtheBoa

Maybe I was mixing pastel lines and being pastel in general up. I did agree it looked pastel, just thought you had to know its breeding to call it pastel.


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No, Pastel simple refers to the phenotype. If you know the line that is better (e.g., EBV for example).
Warren

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Originally Posted by CloudtheBoa

Maybe I was mixing pastel lines and being pastel in general up. I did agree it looked pastel, just thought you had to know its breeding to call it pastel.

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It used to be that people wouldn't call a boa a pastel unless it came from a known line. Then as 10 or so years has gone on, people just call any reduced black/speckled boa with nice color a pastel.

Pastel is a general description as noted, and not a morph like it is in BPs (A high color, low black boa is more likely to produce babies with that trait). Boa are so highly variable already.

I have a boa that people were always calling pastel, I've still just called her high-pink *shrug* guess I'm stuck on the old ways. :)

To the op - that is a very beautiful normal boa.
The size is perfectly fine. My first boa was 9yrs and 5.5'. She's now 27yrs and just over 8'. Boas continue to grow their entire lives. Don't go so much by size to judge age, good body structure is what is more important. Good luck with you new addition!

Pretty snake! IMO, a wild type (AKA normal). However, wild type in boa constrictors is quite variable. Wild caught or captive bred? Your guess is as good as mine. Pastel? I can't tell so will skip that issue.

Technically, Central America is the area from the Colombian border with Panama to the Isthmus of Tehuantepec in Mexico. The pet trade has produced so many non-standardized common names that (IMO) Central American boa could mean almost any BCI. YMMV.

Columbia is an alternate name for the USA. Colombia is the country in the NW corner of South America. :)

Quick and dirty sexing. Look for the spurs low on the sides of the body just forward of the tail. Female spurs are often invisible in a pit in the skin. If a claw is visible, it is generally thin and straight. Male spurs are usually obvious. Claw is thick with a definite hook at the end. Comparison of several adult boas of known sex is helpful for identification. Method is probably about 75% accurate. An experienced prober can probably hit ~95% accuracy.

Even 95% is good but I thought it was better. Im getting a lot of bs over the 2 female bp's I just had probed 'male'. The guy said he bought them as female from an experienced breeder and can get the paperwork but originally he said he hatched one of them and when i called him out on it he stopped texting. I even told him I wasnt all that upset since I knew he couldnt make it right being a hobby breeder and selling cause he needed the money. Back to topic, Im really learning alot here and I appreciate all the input/advise! Thank you all for your time and input!

A buddy of mine (only met him a month ago) breeds boas and has I think 3 or 4 females, all over 8' and thick as I dont know what, absolutely huge! I dont know how old they are but I thought that was normal size. From everything Im reading, his are overweight.