Reversing Stress in BP

Due both in part to being starved and mistreated at the pet store, and mishandling by myself (as a new owner... I made some pretty crucial and stupid mistakes...) my little ball python is probably in a lot of stress.

He is still quite small, being a baby hatched in late August/early June.

His set-up is finally the way it should be.

https://i.imgur.com/VrS6ksF.jpg

the big rock has a small plastic flower cup I got from the gardening section that I got the reddish rock thing. The reddish rock thing has a hole in it to crawl into, and it's hollow all the way to the top. So if he wanted to crawl up there, he could. I moniter the temperature every hour when I'm home using the infrared thermometer. The UTH is on a thermostat set at 90, but I've observed the surface temperature going to 93 before I had to manually shut it off, so I don't really trust it.

This morning, while it was still dark, I misted the enclosure with water, then fed Wheatley a large mouse. He seemed to struggle with it a bit, however, he had no further trouble swallowing it.

Ive read that snakes won't eat when stressed, however he still shows signs of distress when I go to handle him.

He does the "S" shape, is very tense (wide body), huffs, and moves to hide.

He doesn't hiss, strike, or hit me with his loops anymore. And recently he's stopped balling up. After I get him up he relaxes and sniffs around, exploring calmly and shows no signs of stress.

(I don't pick him up after he's eaten, although I did move him a bit today because I thought he was in the other hide when I went to pick the one up to spray water under it...)

Im not sure how stressed Wheatley is at this point.

other than the changes I made to the husbandry, and limiting handling (when not digesting) to maximum of 30 mins a day, what else can I do to decrease fear and stress? Will he grow out of it as he gets bigger?

When I pick him up, I let him see my finger first, so not to startle him, then I pet him a little before I pick him up at the girthy part of his body. I have a natural tremor to my hands and bad neurological control, so sometimes my fingers start to jitter, which could be causing some terror to him.

You could probably fit a few more hides if you wanted to (which don't hurt). Hides that are open at the bottom and enclosed on all sides are pretty good as opposed to the log hides (open on both sides) and cups (wide opening on one side). I'd also recommend some more leafy decor. You have some, but you can clearly still see how open the tank looks (you'll want to imagine he should feel hidden and safe moving from kne hide to the other).

For the thermostat, if it gets to 93, just lower the thermostat from 90 to 89 and see how it fluxuates then. Thermostats will either maintain a conatant temperatre (like many herpstats) or, as I'm guessing yours is, it will shut off if it gets too hot, so there's no need to manually shut it off.

As for handling, I'd just keep what you're doing. Maybe limit handling to like 5 minutes instead of 30 and then slowly extend it over a few months. Try not to come from above if you can. It sounds like you have a good method though (letting him see you, pet a few times so he knows it's you and it's not feedig time). But if he's relaxing after a few moments, he's probably just scared of the initial movement/handling, especially considering it sounds like it wasn't handled prior to you getting him. I personally also tap the side of my tub theee times before any time I ipen the tub WITHOUT food. I don't know if ball pythons are smart enough to learn or recognize things like that, but I suppose it's worth a shot.

Petting is not something a snake understands. You'd be better off just letting the snake see you then pick up from the midsection. Handle as little as possible for the first month to let them settle.

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Originally Posted by piedlover79

Petting is not something a snake understands. You'd be better off just letting the snake see you then pick up from the midsection.

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The petting is something I picked up for people who feed their snake in the enclosure. After a while, they learn that it means you are there to pick them up, rather than feed them.

I do it so he will know when I don't pet him I'm not intending on picking him up/handling him, so he doesn't associate opening the enclosure with just being handled. Especially when I go in there frequently now to mist the cage to keep the humidity where it needs to be, and verify the temperature is in a good range.

Im aware that they don't understand petting as an affection sort of thing. I don't think they could understand that, since they don't play, or do anything recreationally, I think they can't feel pleasure. Or if they do, it's simply the thrill of "catching" food.

In addition to more leafy stuff (or even crumpled-up paper, cover the back and one or both short ends of the tank - I've used aquarium backgrounds, but even plain white copier/printer paper is fine. Just tape it on the outside of the tank. That will provide more security than transparent glass walls.


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You really want to have a stress free BP downsize the enclosure size until your BP is 200 grams.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

You really want to have a stress free BP downsize the enclosure size until your BP is 200 grams.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

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it looks larger than it really is. It's crowded and half the tank is blocked off. Which works for me because that side gets to 68. And with how I set up the hides, it blocks the cold air from the air conditioner and the cool side he can reach only gets down to 75-77. The warm side has been consistent now between 85-95

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Originally Posted by Prognathodon

In addition to more leafy stuff (or even crumpled-up paper, cover the back and one or both short ends of the tank - I've used aquarium backgrounds, but even plain white copier/printer paper is fine. Just tape it on the outside of the tank. That will provide more security than transparent glass walls.


Sent using software and hardware

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I was considering using a sheet, but paper sounds better!

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Originally Posted by KingWheatley

I monitor the temperature every hour when I'm home using the infrared thermometer.
...and limiting handling (when not digesting) to maximum of 30 mins a day, what else can I do to decrease fear and stress? Will he grow out of it as he gets bigger?

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The best thing you can do for your BP is leave it alone. You don't need to monitor every hour, and should not handle every day. In my opinion.

Also, wrap 3 outer sides of the enclosure to help the snake feel more secure. I used a 'desert' looking vinyl background bought from local pet store, they sell this stuff by the foot off a roll.

http://i.imgur.com/QQjJdOg.jpg

But you could use anything,

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Originally Posted by [B

KingWheatley[/B]]Im aware that they don't understand petting as an affection sort of thing. I don't think they could understand that, since they don't play, or do anything recreationally, I think they can't feel pleasure. Or if they do, it's simply the thrill of "catching" food.

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I haven't taught them to fetch yet - but there are a few 'games' or activities I play with my snakes.

Don't forget to check your humidity and keep it around 55 - 60 %. A towel across a portion of the top or something hold in the moisture will help maintain and keep humidity.

Well as you can imagine everyone has a different opinion when it comes to the perfect setup and the perfect husbandry. We tend to share our experiences, what has worked for us, or we simply repeat what everyone says on the internet over and over, most of which is pretty inaccurate or downright wrong, not that I'm saying that anything suggested above is completely wrong.

I watched a YouTube video of a girl who raises Anacondas, a notoriously aggressive snake that gets extremely large. She actually tamed them all down by handing each and every snake every single day. Most professional breeders were blown away by how docile her snakes are. Personally from what I've seen I think daily handling for short sessions is extremely helpful to tame snakes down.

As far as your setup, personally I would get rid of that wooden half circle hide, I've never seen a ball python totally comfortable with a hide like that. It's better to get a hide with just one opening, Personally I would go with a hide like the one below, just go to Amazon.com and search for 'snake hide'. I would get the XL size as he will out grow it pretty fast as he gets bigger.

If I were you I'd also switch from cedar mulch to something like Reptichip, a coconut husk substrate. It absorbs moisture much faster and will keep your humidity higher for a longer time. And since you have a screen top I would cover probably 90% of it (or all of it) to keep the humidity in, just make sure you have enough room for air to get in, they don't really need that much air. Most people will use an enclosed plastic tote with a few holes melted in the sides. You'll be fighting humidity with a screen top unless you live in a very humid climate, then you don't have to worry about it LOL.

Is that a hot rock in there? I would take that out ASAP if it is. Those suckers can fail and when they do they get stuck on high and burn snake bellies.

I used to use glass aquariums for my snakes and they seemed like they were always stressed out. I finally got an ARS rack with tubs and they immediately mellowed out. They really need to be enclosed on all sides. Most people will say that your tank is too big, but I have tiny ball python hatchlings in 70 series tubs (meant for full size BPs) and they do great since the tubs are grey and the snake is totally enclosed on all sides. In reality your tank isn't the problem, even if you had a smaller tank it would be 'invisible' to the snake. It's really the enclosed hide that they need.

Personally I wouldn't worry about keeping your humidity 'perfect'. I'm not sure you can really have a humidity that's too high. I prefer to keep my snakes in probably close to 100% humidity and let it drop as the substrate dries out. The biggest thing is to not let it get too low, especially when they go into shed.

If you use an under tank heater I would set it at 88F, probably don't want it to go much above 90F. Some old books say to keep the temps higher, a lot of people just repeat what they read, but breeders are now recommending 88F since higher temps can make the males sterile. If it's running too high I'd set it at 80F and then measure the temp after a day or so, then increase a degree or two every day until you get the right temp. They need a hot spot to properly digest their food. With a setup like that you may want a hide over the hotspot and one on the cool end.

I feed my snakes twice a week believe it or not. Some people feed once a week and some even once a month. The more you feed them the faster they will grow and the bigger they will get. Some of my snakes that are less than a year old are already bigger than some two year olds!

These are just my suggestions and ramblings, keep looking up info out there. Lots of people are raising snakes lots of different ways with different degrees of success, I'm finding that a lot of it is just trial and error, you have to keep changing things up and see what works.

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/images...84-reptile.jpg

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Originally Posted by cchardwick

As far as your setup, personally I would get rid of that wooden half circle hide, I've never seen a ball python totally comfortable with a hide like that. It's better to get a hide with just one opening, Personally I would go with a hide like the one below, just go to Amazon.com and search for 'snake hide'. I would get the XL size as he will out grow it pretty fast as he gets bigger.

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I just keep it in there to clutter it up, now. He doesn't use it anymore.

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Originally Posted by cchardwick

If I were you I'd also switch from cedar mulch to something like Reptichip, a coconut husk substrate.

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It's definitely not ceder. It's Aspen. Ceder is bad for snakes, isn't it?

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Originally Posted by cchardwick

Is that a hot rock in there?

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No. That's a hide.

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Originally Posted by cchardwick

Breeders are now recommending 88F since higher temps can make the males sterile.... They need a hot spot to properly digest their food. With a setup like that you may want a hide over the hotspot and one on the cool end.

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I'm not a breeder. I'm not going to breed him, so it shouldn't bother me or anyone else if he is sterile. Also, the rock hide is over the UTH. When the UTH turns off, the lamp turns on because the UTH will stay off until it gets almost 70 degrees F. The rock will heat up so he can snuggle up to that until the UTH turns back on. The rock hide is on the warm side, the weird stack of rock thing is a hide as well. That's on the cool end and has one small entrance that he uses.

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Originally Posted by cchardwick

I feed my snakes twice a week believe it or not. Some people feed once a week and some even once a month. The more you feed them the faster they will grow and the bigger they will get. Some of my snakes that are less than a year old are already bigger than some two year olds!

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I worry about obesity, as that can be uncomfortable for him and detrimental to his health. Every 5 days works for me, and he seems fine with it as well.

[QUOTE=cchardwick;2470118]These are just my suggestions and ramblings, keep looking up info out there. Lots of people are raising snakes lots of different ways with different degrees of success, I'm finding that a lot of it is just trial and error, you have to keep changing things up and see what works./QUOTE]

I've found recently that there are wrong ways to do it, but there is no one right way. lol