Stressed or just Unsure?

So do to previous husbandry issues, I ended up taking out my little ball python a lot more frequently to give him baths and keep him warm. Now that all that has been (finally) corrected, I turn my attention to his stress.

Usually, when I'd go to pick him up, he'd just sit there and let it happen. But if I put my hand down to give him the option to climb on, he will either ignore it or go back into his hide. If I do pick him up, he huffs a little bit, and remains still for maybe a minute, but then he will stretch out and casually explore around. The only time I've seen him attempting to go anywhere quickly is when Id put him in the sink (the tub is too big for him) with Luke-warm water. I thought this was perhaps because the water wasn't the right temperature, but it felt almost like air temperature to me.

After some exploring, he sometimes will curl up close to me or on me (because I'm warm and I usually keep him on the bed with me when I have him out). Occasionally I'll go to pet him, because he's cute and it's a habit I haven't broken yet. He won't huff or ball up, but he'll sort of smack away my finger with the portion of his body I touched. Otherwise, he seems rather calm about everything.

He moves about his enclosure more frequently, going from one hide to the other. (One on the cool side, one on the warm). But this morning he was sitting outside his cool-side hide and felt cold. I checked the temperature of the warm hide, and it was where it needed to be (95-ish F). His cool side varies depending on what my roommate set the air-conditioner to...

Since he was outside his hide, Im a little worried I'm doing something wrong...

What do you mean by 95-ish? What did you use to check the temperature and where exactly did you do so?

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Originally Posted by Eric Alan

What do you mean by 95-ish? What did you use to check the temperature and where exactly did you do so?

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95.3 specifically. I used a new laser temp-gun and I checked under the hide, as I wanted to measure the temperature inside the hide itself

95 is a bit too hot, try lowering the warm side down to 90 or so. You need to insulate the cage or move it or whatever you need to do to keep the cool side a stable temp, if it's getting too cold or fluctuating a lot you are going to end up with a sick snake. You aren't bathing him anymore are you? There's really no need to. What kind of hides do you have? Maybe they aren't tight or secure enough but might be just improper temps and trying to regulate himself.

What are you using as a heat source?

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Originally Posted by GoingPostal

95 is a bit too hot, try lowering the warm side down to 90 or so. You need to insulate the cage or move it or whatever you need to do to keep the cool side a stable temp, if it's getting too cold or fluctuating a lot you are going to end up with a sick snake. You aren't bathing him anymore are you? There's really no need to. What kind of hides do you have? Maybe they aren't tight or secure enough but might be just improper temps and trying to regulate himself.

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The pet store told me to set it at 95-100... -headdesk- I'm going to just throw out everything I was recommended to do by the store.

The heat pad they sold me does not have a thermostat. The hide is a little big but the other one in the cold is too small. I supplemented the small one by adding the fake leaves around it and situating the log piece so it doesn't have an opening on the other side. He seems to prefer this colder one, but I figured he'd be able to regulate himself as needed...

Im going to be making another trip to the pet store today to pick up more hides and things to make the enclosure smaller for him, and see if I can find a humidifier.

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Originally Posted by Eric Alan

What are you using as a heat source?

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A headlamp during the day, and an under belly heater at night. Both on the same side with the better insulated but larger rock hide

You're going to be told to unplug that heat pad immediately until you get a thermostat for it.

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You NEED to buy a separate thermostat. You should NEVER run a heat pad unregulated unless you want to risk cooking your snake alive. You also don't need the heat lamp for a ball python. Ball pythons will self regulate but only to a certain degree. The thermostat's probe should be places between the pad and the enclosure and should be set to around 88-90F. As long as the heat source is fine, you don't really have much to worry about besides humidity which you shouldn't have a problem if you are using a proper enclosure.

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Originally Posted by Fraido

You're going to be told to unplug that heat pad immediately until you get a thermostat for it.

Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk

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I left it on without him in the tank while I was taking him to the vet for a checkup and discussion with the vet. And he hung out with me while I played video games the rest of the day and the hottest it got was 90 with two inches of aspen and open air. The rock insulated the heat to 95ish.

i only leave it on at night, because it's over carpet anyways and is a fire hazard. I want to switch to a thermo regulated heat rock

Don't bother with a heat rock, just get a thermostat for that heat pad and get it regulated, just because you've yet to see it get too hot doesn't mean it never will. You're taking a risk you don't need to take.

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Originally Posted by Seven-Thirty

You NEED to buy a separate thermostat. You should NEVER run a heat pad unregulated unless you want to risk cooking your snake alive. You also don't need the heat lamp for a ball python. Ball pythons will self regulate but only to a certain degree. The thermostat's probe should be places between the pad and the enclosure and should be set to around 88-90F. As long as the heat source is fine, you don't really have much to worry about besides humidity which you shouldn't have a problem if you are using a proper enclosure.

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Which this is likely also not a proper enclosure as it was also recommended by the store.

I get paid soon, so I'll be purchasing better supplies and ignoring the store associates, armed with this knowledge.

I also want to get more hides than just the two I have.

You're using a glass tank with a screen top, right? Humidity will likely be an issue, but it doesn't necessarily mean you have to buy a new enclosure, it just means you probably have to work harder to find a way to keep the humidity where it should be. It definitely is easier to just buy a 'proper' enclosure, though.

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My advice is skip the store-I can't think of anything I would possibly need for my snakes at a big box store.

http://www.reptilebasics.com/ sells hides, some thermostats and just about anything else you could need.

I prefer herpstat thermostats http://www.spyderrobotics.com/ but VE or rancos can work too depending on what you need.

PVC cages or tub setups are recommended for snakes, secure, well enclosed, hold heat/humidity, lightweight. Tub heating is flexwatt/heat pads or room heating, with a pvc enclosure I do under tank heating and/or radiant heat panels. Animal plastics, vision, boaphile and a ton of other companies make a variety of quality options.

In the meantime go pick up a lamp dimmer to somewhat regulate your heat pad or unplug it until you can get a thermostat on it.

Just to reiterate, you NEED a thermostat, and a temporarily lamp dimmer for a few days before the thermostat arrives is a good idea... A thermostat isn't an optional piece of equipment. A heat pad's temperatures can be either 100 some days or 120 on a random day, and that's when you're screwed with $300 of vet bills for a scorched Wheatley.

It's true, toss out whatever the pet store has told you. Learn from the caresheets online and on this site, read it thoroughly.

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...ius)-Caresheet

Also, you don't want a heat rock... That's another piece of belly burning equipment.

Just for when you find the Ultratherm UTH on reptilebasics that says it won't go above 95... That is not true either, you need a thermostat.

I have all ultratherms and have personally witnessed it reach above 125 degrees when my past roommate moved my boa's enclosure without my permission and left the thermostat probe on the carpet.

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Originally Posted by GoingPostal

My advice is skip the store-I can't think of anything I would possibly need for my snakes at a big box store.

http://www.reptilebasics.com/ sells hides, some thermostats and just about anything else you could need.

I prefer herpstat thermostats http://www.spyderrobotics.com/ but VE or rancos can work too depending on what you need.

PVC cages or tub setups are recommended for snakes, secure, well enclosed, hold heat/humidity, lightweight. Tub heating is flexwatt/heat pads or room heating, with a pvc enclosure I do under tank heating and/or radiant heat panels. Animal plastics, vision, boaphile and a ton of other companies make a variety of quality options.

In the meantime go pick up a lamp dimmer to somewhat regulate your heat pad or unplug it until you can get a thermostat on it.

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Ill get that tank next month. Hopefully Wheatley can hang in there a little longer...

Stressed by improper husbandry and over handling especially since the animal is so small

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...Husbandry-Help

Again

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Based on the pictures of the snake in the other thread (underweight animal, even if eating for now) there are a lot of things to do and this is where to start.

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...-hatchling-101

An underweight snake that is leaving in too large of an enclosure and that is handle frequently is not a good thing.

The enclosure is way too big that's for an adult, the thermometer is junk, you need a digital thermometer and should read the temps at the floor level.

The hide should preferably be identical so the animal does not chose security over thermoregualtion, a proper hide is very small tight touching your BP's body, in you case nothing bigger than a 6 inches plastic flower pot saucer.

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A tub and a dimmer can be bought TODAY for less than $20, the longer you wait the more you are jeopardizing the health of this animal stress + improper husbandry usually translate as RI especially with very young animal that are already underweight and have a weaker immune system.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Stressed by improper husbandry and over handling especially since the animal is so small

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...Husbandry-Help

Again



A tub and a dimmer can be bought TODAY for less than $20, the longer you wait the more you are jeopardizing the health of this animal stress + improper husbandry usually translate as RI especially with very young animal that are already underweight and have a weaker immune system.

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This is turned from "is he stressed?" to "yes because of the husbandry issues."

I wanted to get something a little better and natural to him, because while nature is stressful, it's also something instinctual for them to recognize. Like a rock or a hollowed log.

I didn't follow your advice because I didn't think he was stressed out. He eats and poops, drinks, goes to his hide, and overall doesn't seem to do out of the normal things typically.

after posting, I took steps to make it more comfortable for him. I made it more enclosed using aspen and it's a lot more snug for him. The rock now has a smaller den inside aspen. I'm rather proud of this set up now. I got really creative with it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Stressed by improper husbandry and over handling especially since the animal is so small

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...Husbandry-Help

Again



A tub and a dimmer can be bought TODAY for less than $20, the longer you wait the more you are jeopardizing the health of this animal stress + improper husbandry usually translate as RI especially with very young animal that are already underweight and have a weaker immune system.

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that being said, for now he will be placed in a make-shift enclosure that I can afford now. I'll worry about "enrichment" or showy things later when it's affordable.


thank you

I found a helpful forum here (which took some exclusive wording in a Google search...) and I'm glad I did.

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...ress-in-Snakes

I've ** the things Wheatley shows signs of:

Attempts to escape
Hissing
Non-feed induced biting
**Over alertness**
Mock striking
**Retraction of the head** or tail induced by minor stimuli
**Immobility** - whcih may included eye contact with keeper
**Hiding the head**
**Clutching** (tightly coiling or grasping)
Death feigning (in animals that display this behavior)
Stuttery, jittery or otherwise hesitant mobility
**Loop pushing with the intent to resist physical contact**

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Originally Posted by KingWheatley

This is turned from "is he stressed?" to "yes because of the husbandry issues."

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Because both a related, husbandry issues are a major stress factor, stress plus husbandry issue are also a major factor when it come to RI.

Those are snake that MUST have their needs met to a T as they are not tolerant as other species, if you don't you set yourself for failure.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Because both a related, husbandry issues are a major stress factor, stress plus husbandry issue are also a major factor when it come to RI.

Those are snake that MUST have their needs met to a T as they are not tolerant as other species, if you don't you set yourself for failure.

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ill update later today after I fix.

thank you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Because both a related, husbandry issues are a major stress factor, stress plus husbandry issue are also a major factor when it come to RI.

Those are snake that MUST have their needs met to a T as they are not tolerant as other species, if you don't you set yourself for failure.

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I have him in an alternate set up at the moment while I was fixing up his set-up. Paper a small water bowel in a plastic container. No hide yet, but the container itself is pretty tight. Just until I get this right.

I tightened up his set up. The UTH is on a thermostat, and the lamp is only for if the UTH gets turned off completely. I shouldn't have to use it, I don't think. I have my infrared thermometer, a spray bottle for humidity, and he has two hides now. One he can go literally up into and has a tight space. I discovered that trying to find him when I put him and the hide down... I had to get him out so I could humidify the hide without him getting sprayed directly... So despite my efforts, he is completely stressed.

Also, I got him some large mice, since the store didn't have any rats other than small rats.

https://i.imgur.com/VrS6ksF.jpg