What's My Morph?

My ball python's genetics has confused me since the day I bought it. The pet store scammed me, selling him as a "Fancy Ball Python" at about $200 (or about $150, I lost the receipt somewhere...), and in an attempt to find out what Wheatley really is, I found evidence to suggest he was a spider ball python, starting with a friend of mine who is a breeder warning me of the "spider ball wobble." In an effort to find out more about it, I ended up looking at spider morphs, and found myself confused.

http://i.imgur.com/2e6Aft2.jpg


As you can probably see here, his color is a bit off from your typical spider ball python. Randomly, I came across this morph:
http://image.prntscr.com/image/ff9c7...0a33075126.png
This is a phantom spider morph. I thought perhaps that Wheatley was this, based on the lighter color along the spine, as well as the thin black stripy-blotches and white belly. And if you look closely, the head markings are similar.

I started a thread asking about spider ball wobble, in an attempt to find out if there are other issues that would present itself because of this neurological disorder. It was here that it was brought to my attention that Wheatley is NOT a spider ball python of any kind. Several other options have popped up since then.

One suggestion was this:
http://www.worldofballpythons.com/fi...s/woma/008.jpg
A Woma.

However, the problem is the markings.... The black splotches aren't similar.... See?
http://i.imgur.com/xedhMX4.jpg


http://i.imgur.com/7jLIUXN.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/ORdkW5J.jpg


So then it was suggested that instead of it being either a spider or a woma, it was a reduced pattern ball python.

http://image.prntscr.com/image/2df3d...2a57f59b02.png
Which other than the base color without the black splotches matches Wheatley more. However, the black markings through this theory off for me completely.

But normals even have thinner markings... SO maybe he's just purely normal??
http://www.worldofballpythons.com/fi...normal/003.jpg


Initially, I wanted to find out what Wheatley was so I could sue the pet store. But after a while I just mellowed out about it. Now it's just a question of what exactly is he? It honestly doesn't matter, as Wheatley is still Wheatley no matter what morph he is. He still has that adorable wobble, and strangely patient personality for a snake. But regardless, I would like to know just for the sake of knowing.

It's a woma. If you're expecting to find an exact replica you're not going to find it on wobp or anywhere else.

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: Sue the pet store for what??? Ignorance??? You bought a "Fancy" all python and there is really no morph know as fancy.....

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h1...psswc7omsu.jpg
This is a Spider...... Full body photo looking nothing like yours

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h1...psxflvshz0.jpg
This is one of my reduced normal. They can vary.

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h1...ps6jod14b8.jpg
Spider I hatched out

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h1...psre3j9vcs.jpg
Reduced normal that's not so normal. She is one of a whole clutch I kept because they are all double het Albino/Axanthic

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h1...HetMale1-8.jpg
This is also a semi-reduced that I hatched out and is nothing but a normal.

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h1...psf65s00oe.jpg
Female reduced Spider.

We can do this all night. Unless you know the pairing that produced your snake, its a normal.
There is nothing special or outstanding in the paint job on your animal.
You are hung up on a word that caught your attention but fancy doesn't exist in the reptile world.
Its a hook in the retail world.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dave Green

It's a woma. If you're expecting to find an exact replica you're not going to find it on wobp or anywhere else.

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What are you seeing in the full body photo that says Woma?
I thought so with all the other photos too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dave Green

It's a woma. If you're expecting to find an exact replica you're not going to find it on wobp or anywhere else.

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i didn't know if the black splotches meant anything, is all.

i remain confused, however.

If you look at both threads it screams woma. Head marking, pattern and color.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KingWheatley

i didn't know if the black splotches meant anything, is all.

i remain confused, however.

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You're letting yourself be confused since you don't want to believe anyone.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: Sue the pet store for what??? Ignorance??? You bought a "Fancy" all python and there is really no morph know as fancy.....

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h1...psswc7omsu.jpg
This is a Spider...... Full body photo looking nothing like yours

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h1...psxflvshz0.jpg
This is one of my reduced normal. They can vary.

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h1...ps6jod14b8.jpg
Spider I hatched out

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h1...psre3j9vcs.jpg
Reduced normal that's not so normal. She is one of a whole clutch I kept because they are all double het Albino/Axanthic

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h1...HetMale1-8.jpg
This is also a semi-reduced that I hatched out and is nothing but a normal.

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h1...psf65s00oe.jpg
Female reduced Spider.

We can do this all night. Unless you know the pairing that produced your snake, its a normal.
There is nothing special or outstanding in the paint job on your animal.
You are hung up on a word that caught your attention but fancy doesn't exist in the reptile world.
Its a hook in the retail world.

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False advertisement. The normal ball python was priced in store at $50-$60. If this is actually a normal, then guess who has grounds to sue?

i can at least get the money I got scammed out of back.

So we are down to a Normal or a Woma. :gj:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KingWheatley

False advertisement.

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Of what? Fancy = Pretty and doesn't imply anything more than that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

Of what? Fancy = Pretty and doesn't imply anything more than that.

---

good point... Lol it's over before it ever started. Oh well...

It made me feel better thinking that I could have had some justice...


alright. So down to Woma and Normal.

im just stuck on spider being a possibility because of the stripy-black splotches... Could it be possible that he's normal-spider or normal reduced-woma parentage?

i only got a UPC code for my snake. I never got information from the breeder they got him from.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KingWheatley

alright. So down to Woma and Normal.

im just stuck on spider being a possibility because of the stripy-black splotches... Could it be possible that he's normal-spider or normal reduced-woma parentage?

i only got a UPC code for my snake. I never got information from the breeder they got him from.

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You can't have a mix of normal and spider or normal and anything, because normal isn't actually a morph. It just means lacking any genetic mutation.

Spider and woma are also dominant genes. So a snake can't be both spider and woma either, for example.

Spider and Woma are dominant genes so, No would be the answer

Quote:

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Originally Posted by redshepherd

You can't have a mix of normal and spider or normal and anything, because normal isn't actually a morph. It just means lacking any genetic mutation.

Spider and woma are also dominant genes. So a snake can't be both spider and woma either, for example.

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Ah... With so many co-dominate genes I thought a lot of the normal ones would be co-dominate. Admittedly, I didn't think they were genetic mutations, I just thought they were like hair colors. Does that make sense?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

Spider and Woma are dominant genes so, No would be the answer

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-throws hands up-

Im out of ideas then. The solution may be, as you suggested, to figure out the parentage... However I do not have access to that information.... So perhaps this is a lost cause...

Either way, normal or woma, he's a pretty snake, and I love him.

- - - Updated - - -

Still... Would be nice to figure it out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KingWheatley

Ah... With so many co-dominate genes I thought a lot of the normal ones would be co-dominate. Admittedly, I didn't think they were genetic mutations, I just thought they were like hair colors. Does that make sense?

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Just need some more research on how BP genetics work, it's alright. Back when I first started looking into ball pythons, I thought "blushing" in pastels was something that just slowly started from "normals with a little blush". LOL

This would help and is fun to play pretend-breeding with: http://www.worldofballpythons.com/wizard/

They do that to bearded dragons too at the petsmart I go to, they call the more colourful ones "fancy" and that "fancy" gives them the chance to double or triple the price, if it doesn't look normal, even if it is they raise the price

He is almost certainly a woma. There are a lot of similarities between the woma and spider genes but spiders always (at least in my experience) have a funky head pattern, which yours lacks. They also tend to have a lot more white speckling coming up from the belly, which yours (again) lacks.

I honestly dont don't think you got cheated at all. If he's a normal he's the most reduced, funkiest patterned "normal" I've ever seen. And personally I think a woma is worth more than a spider simply because of the market being flooded with spider morphs-- if you're worried about being scammed.

Also, in regards to the verbage "fancy"-- I've personally never, in all my trips to the pet store for whatever reason, EVER seen a normal ball Python being sold as a fancy. Maybe my local stores are better at differentiating, idk. Not saying that it never happens, because believe me I'm sure there are employees out there that couldn't tell the difference between a normal and a spider/pastel/whatever, just saying I've never seen it. BUT, like others have said, just because it's labelled a fancy doesn't mean there's any law obligating them to sell only morph ball pythons as fancy.

I've never seen a normal sold as a "fancy" ball python either, but I have seen pastels sold for $250+ under the "fancy" label. (I'm looking at you, Petsmart.) Considering that you can get a pastel for $50 from a local breeder I feel this ought to be considered a form of highway robbery.

I'm not saying they're always horrible and unfair. Their albinos and bananas are around the same price, and considering what they're worth, it's actually a reasonable price to pay. I think someone knowledgeable about ball pythons must've been to my local store, because they keep their snakes housed separately with two hides and a water bowl in each enclosure (as opposed to shoving several snakes into one large display like other stores do).

But ultimately I wouldn't buy from a big box store. They aren't very knowledgeable about the animals. I've always found it suspicious that they'll slap a single label ("fancy") and a single price tag on a wide variety of ball python morphs. These aren't rats we're talking about.