Me (bp.net learned) vs. My boyfriend (Petco learned)

So long story short, my boyfriend works at Petco. After having a crappy day at school, I went to go visit him and price some stuff for my bp's setup up. He and his boss basically tells me that snakes will eat the coconut fiber substrate (not ingest accidentally, intentionally EAT) and that I'm gonna get bit cause I started feeding her in her enclosure. I got mad and stormed out.

So, can you guys tell me if any ball pythons have intentionally eaten coconut fiber substrate and why feeding in the enclosure doesn't cause aggressiveness?

I already know the answers, this is for me to explain to him what I was taught by you guys and why I do what I do.

Your reply: "Common sense." :cool: And put on shades as you say it.

More practical reasons to give- ball pythons are obligate carnivores. That's all there is to it. They won't intentionally eat anything except rodents. On top of that, when any of my snakes take an accidental mouthful of substrate when they strike their food, they try their hardest to spit the substrate back out using their jaws and tongue.

Reason two- if ball pythons/any snakes become aggressive when fed in the enclosure, the ball python breeders who have 100 ball pythons and simply can't take each and every snake outside of the enclosure to feed must have 100 aggressive ball pythons then, am I right? LOL.

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Originally Posted by MixtSpice

So, can you guys tell me if any ball pythons have intentionally eaten coconut fiber substrate and why feeding in the enclosure doesn't cause aggressiveness?

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No, ball pythons do not just eat coconut fiber. There is no "why", besides why the heck would you think it would? Repeat myth with no evidence to back it up.

SO you are wanting to us to call him an idiot for you?
Do you know how long it would take some of us to move each and every snake to fee them? Don't forget about how many bites we might get from moving snakes that are ready to eat....

Thank you for the responses, I was trying to tell them and they insisted on interrupting me. Petco has brain washed him; they kept saying "ok well when your snake gets 4 feet long and you come in with your arm all wrapped up..." Ugh I was so mad! But yeah, its just easier for me to read responses from a single thread then for me to search various threads for the answer.

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Originally Posted by MixtSpice

Thank you for the responses, I was trying to tell them and they insisted on interrupting me. Petco has brain washed him; they kept saying "ok well when your snake gets 4 feet long and you come in with your arm all wrapped up..." Ugh I was so mad! But yeah, its just easier for me to read responses from a single thread then for me to search various threads for the answer.

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That's hilarious, because coming in with your arm all wrapped up is actually more likely if you feed OUTSIDE the enclosure. You have to handle food, handle the snake, handle the snake again right after feeding and while the air still reeks of food, I mean.... LOL

Feeding inside the enclosure, you stick in the food with tongs, snake eats it and done. Leave the snake alone for 48 hours, all's good.

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Originally Posted by redshepherd

That's hilarious, because coming in with your arm all wrapped up is actually more likely if you feed OUTSIDE the enclosure. You have to handle food, handle the snake, handle the snake again right after feeding and while the air still reeks of food, I mean.... LOL

Feeding inside the enclosure, you stick in the food with tongs, snake eats it and done. Leave the snake alone for 48 hours, all's good.

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I totally agree! Like, the logic is definitely there. When I first got my bp, I saw the logic in feeding outside the enclosure but now, it makes much more sense to feed inside. Idk. He'll be home soon and I'm sure we'll "talk" about it lol

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Your snake can tell the difference between your hand and a rodent, and it can smell when there's food around and when there isn't. A snake might still strike defensively, but if so it isn't because you were feeding it in its enclosure. If it actually worked like that, no one would answer your question, because we would all be too bandaged up to type. :cool:

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Originally Posted by MixtSpice

So long story short, my boyfriend works at Petco. After having a crappy day at school, I went to go visit him and price some stuff for my bp's setup up. He and his boss basically tells me that snakes will eat the coconut fiber substrate (not ingest accidentally, intentionally EAT) and that I'm gonna get bit cause I started feeding her in her enclosure. I got mad and stormed out.

So, can you guys tell me if any ball pythons have intentionally eaten coconut fiber substrate and why feeding in the enclosure doesn't cause aggressiveness?

I already know the answers, this is for me to explain to him what I was taught by you guys and why I do what I do.

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I'll do the justice and call them both idiots.

You DO NOT have to feed outside of the enclosure. This doesn't mean your snake will be more aggressive. I've fed my Ball Pythons in their enclosure and none have ever changed their behavior. My Rufous beaked I fed out of the enclosure because I had 3 living together and didn't want a feeding accident.

Yes in the ideal world I would prefer to feed out of the enclosure because I've seen snakes accidentally get aspen or other various substrate in their mouth. I've never actually seen any of them ingest it and I highly doubt they would because there's no need. There's no nutritional value for them there. Some snakes will just always be aggressive, some calm down as they get old and some just take time and handling to calm down. Then some are never aggressive.

As for feeding them in/out of the enclosure, let's be logical: if you take them out of the tank to feed, every time you take them out they think there's a possibility they'll be fed. So they get into a feeding state of mind. If you always feed them in their enclosure, they know that being out of the tank means no food is happening. Even if they think they're going to be fed when you first open the tank, once they're out they shouldn't be in a feeding state of mind. So even if feeding in the enclosure made them more likely to strike when you open the tank (and I don't think it does), you know to expect it and be careful getting them out, and once they're out they're LESS likely to strike. Well, anyway, that's my theory of little snakey brains :P.

And, no, why would they eat coco coir on purpose? That doesn't make any sense. Some lizards will eat just anything but snakes are pretty well stuck on small critters.

I love snakes. You love snakes. Your boyfriend sounds like a goof and works at lame Petco. You should be single and wander my way!:-)

-Texas

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Originally Posted by Willowy

As for feeding them in/out of the enclosure, let's be logical: if you take them out of the tank to feed, every time you take them out they think there's a possibility they'll be fed. So they get into a feeding state of mind. If you always feed them in their enclosure, they know that being out of the tank means no food is happening. Even if they think they're going to be fed when you first open the tank, once they're out they shouldn't be in a feeding state of mind. So even if feeding in the enclosure made them more likely to strike when you open the tank (and I don't think it does), you know to expect it and be careful getting them out, and once they're out they're LESS likely to strike. Well, anyway, that's my theory of little snakey brains :P.

And, no, why would they eat coco coir on purpose? That doesn't make any sense. Some lizards will eat just anything but snakes are pretty well stuck on small critters.

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If you take them out to feed they'll think there's a possibility they'll be fed? LOL. I actually hope you were just kidding. Feeding in the enclosure is simply about saving time and it's much easier then having to relocate, also you're not handling a snake after it's eaten so no risk of regurgitating. There is no difference between feeding in the tank or moving to feed elsewhere, it's simply a matter of preference.

I just wanted to point out actual facts instead of assumptions that you posted.

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Originally Posted by Coluber42

Your snake can tell the difference between your hand and a rodent, and it can smell when there's food around and when there isn't. A snake might still strike defensively, but if so it isn't because you were feeding it in its enclosure. If it actually worked like that, no one would answer your question, because we would all be too bandaged up to type. :cool:

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Tell that to our baby woma pythons. They taste first and ask questions later. Different snakes have different feeding responses. A picky eater may fall in line with what you say but some will try eating anything at least ten times. For those snakes you just have to find ways to let them know you are not food before engaging.

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Originally Posted by enginee837

Tell that to our baby woma pythons. They taste first and ask questions later. Different snakes have different feeding responses. A picky eater may fall in line with what you say but some will try eating anything at least ten times. For those snakes you just have to find ways to let them know you are not food before engaging.

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Aim plays a big part in this too. I've hand fed some really really aggressive feeders that will strike at tongs, but when it's laying flat on my hand they gently eat off of it. I'm not saying it's not possible to get bit like that, but I've never had it happen, at least not with the boas, colubrids of pythons that I've owned. I would never try that with a GTP though, or really any large snake that could do some serious damage.

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Originally Posted by enginee837

Tell that to our baby woma pythons. They taste first and ask questions later. Different snakes have different feeding responses. A picky eater may fall in line with what you say but some will try eating anything at least ten times. For those snakes you just have to find ways to let them know you are not food before engaging.

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Can confirm. I think it was someone on this forum (or maybe somewhere else) awhile ago whose boa constrictor ate its entire repti-carpet, just because it had some leftover scent of rat on it. LOL. It regurgitated it later.

Different snakes have different methods of examining "what is food" too. Green Tree Pythons mainly track heat and movement, less than scent. Anything that's warm and moves at night is possible food in their book. Ball pythons seem to rely heavily on scent and then heat.

Anyway, kind of off-track from the topic...

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Originally Posted by redshepherd

Can confirm. I think it was someone on this forum (or maybe somewhere else) awhile ago whose boa constrictor ate its entire repti-carpet, just because it had some leftover scent of rat on it. LOL. It regurgitated it later.

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Oh man, find that thread. I must of been on my hiatus when that happened.

Want to see me hand feeding one of my aggressive eaters a couple of years back? I thought for sure I was going to get bit.

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Originally Posted by Neal

Oh man, find that thread. I must of been on my hiatus when that happened.

Want to see me hand feeding one of my aggressive eaters a couple of years back? I thought for sure I was going to get bit.

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LOL I wish I could, but it was honestly so long ago and I'm not even sure if it was on this site or somewhere else, since I've browsed a lot of snake communities.

That sounds like fun! :O (I'll stick to my hemostats)

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Originally Posted by redshepherd

LOL I wish I could, but it was honestly so long ago and I'm not even sure if it was on this site or somewhere else, since I've browsed a lot of snake communities.

That sounds like fun! :O (I'll stick to my hemostats)

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I think the beginning of the video with me talking got cut off because when you hit the record button they have a slight delay. I started off saying: Different arguments of why you don't hand feed a ball python. Now granted this guy was one of my most aggressive eaters so I literally thought I was going to get bit. I would never of tried that with the girl below him because she's launched out of her tub a few times when I scented the room. Also that's another thing the room was scented, meaning I took a hair dryer and heated the food up to make the room smell like rodents to get them into feeding mode.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ruck_MW1pbk

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Originally Posted by Neal

If you take them out to feed they'll think there's a possibility they'll be fed? LOL. I actually hope you were just kidding. Feeding in the enclosure is simply about saving time and it's much easier then having to relocate, also you're not handling a snake after it's eaten so no risk of regurgitating. There is no difference between feeding in the tank or moving to feed elsewhere, it's simply a matter of preference.

I just wanted to point out actual facts instead of assumptions that you posted.

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If, say, every other time you take them out of the tank they get fed, I can only assume they'll start to make pattern associations. But I've never known a snake whose owners chose to take them out of the enclosure for feeding so I will defer to those with experience. It just makes no sense to me.

Keepers with a large collection feed in the enclosure for convenience.

Keepers who have giant snakes such as reticulated pythons, burmese pythons, or anacondas, feed in the enclosure to avoid ER visits.

Keepers who have venomous snakes feed in the enclosure to avoid trips to the ER or morgue.

For the OP: I have a few adult retics that are anywhere from 12-14 feet long and weigh in at 40-65 pounds. Your boyfriend and his boss are more than welcome to come to my place, pull any one of them out of the enclosure to feed it, and then put it back afterward. I just get all rights to the video footage because it's going on Youtube.

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Originally Posted by Willowy

If, say, every other time you take them out of the tank they get fed, I can only assume they'll start to make pattern associations. But I've never known a snake whose owners chose to take them out of the enclosure for feeding so I will defer to those with experience. It just makes no sense to me.

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I have with colubrids and a boa. I didn't with my ball pythons though. I never had an issue.

I have had ball pythons since before this web forum began...a long time ago folks.. I have had some that were fed in their enclosures and others who were fed in separate feeding bin.

My current ball is taken out of his enclosure at random times, day and nite... With this being said, I feed in a separate bin, I feed f/t. I have never been bit before feeding nor after when moving him or any of our others that were fed in separate bin. And I have not noticed w any of them aggression from the "thought" they may be fed when there isnt a rodent in the room. Because they are not yet in feed mode when moved. Once moved rodent is brought in and immediately fed off. I leave them in the bin a bit to let them settle down from feed mode, by then they are usually trying to crawl the wall...open lid, they crawl right out to me and get moved to their enclosure.

There isnt a right or wrong way when it comes to feeding or not in enclosure..it just depends on the snake and what itll tolerate.

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And I wld like to add this.. I feed outside enclosure bc it gives me the opportunity to clean thoroughly while he is out having a bite to eat.

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Let's see, I've never had an issue with a snake trying to eat substrate, it's not good to them. As for where to feed, I've fed both in and out of enclosure, and honestly, I've never had an issue with aggression either way. Sure sometimes they might get excited when I open the cage, but thy calm down as soon as they realize I don't have food with me.


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