Any information or advice really.....

Ok so I'm totally new to this.... I have two adult ball pythons. One is about 36" n the other about 41". I have never weighed them yet bc i don't have scales but know I need to purchase some (esp bc one of my chinchillas just had a baby too) I've had these for a few months now. They actually were for my fiance but he ended up getting a job out of town for months at a time soon after we got them and I m left to care for them. My main question is feeding....how do I know if I am over or under feeding them?? They have a 55 gallon aquarium as their main habitat and I use a 10 gallon tank to feed them. I usually feed them 4-5 feeder mice (typical pet store size mice) once every 7-10 days. They seem to be getting cage aggressive though and I'm unsure of why. I used to never have a problem with handling them and I never feed them in the main cage but they seem to be striking more often (if they don't strike, I get a feeling like they are going to n I get nervous) one of them actually bit my fiance right after a feeding (obvious to why kind of...) then the next week as I was cleaning the cage one struck at me but didn't bite me, and anymore if I move my hand along the outside of the tank they follow it intently and one actually struck the cage one time. Idk wut I am doing wrong or what may be wrong.... basically ayn advice about these snakes is welcome!!! I know the basics and what I Google when I need to know...I'm almost at the point I'm ready to get rid of them bc i have a small child and God forbid they happen to bite him one day id have a dead snake.....HELP PLEASE!!!

Well, 1st..they should each be in their own habitat/enclosure..not sharing a 55gallon. Which very big for even one ball by the way. I suggest moving them to their own separate enclosures w proper heating ETC.

What are you using to provide heat? Please tell us about your husbandry.

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You do not need a separate feeding enclosure. That actually tends to cause more stress and is an old wife's tale. You should be feeding a rat that is as big as the widest part of the ball python or 10% of their weight. I'm sure someone will post a chart. They aren't in the same enclosure I hope, as ball pythons are solitary animals. Your small child should not be around the snakes if the snakes are snippy, and they shouldn't be killed because of so. You need to confident when handling them and approach them in a way that they cannot snap at you. Ball pythons can be quite defensive, I don't blame them. I don't mean to belittle you when you say you know the basics... but what are their temps like and set up like? That could also be part of the attitude problem. Google can be your friend or your worst enemy.

Without more information, it's hard to tell what you should be feeding them. The easiest rule of thumb is to feed them rodents about the width of the widest part of your snake's body. For full grown snakes, this can mean a small or medium sized rat. If you are still feeding mice, switching to rats will make feeding them in the future much easier as they will only need one rat for a feeding. I typically feed a rat a week to all my BPs and err on the smaller side when it comes to the size of rodents.

As for housing, they should be housed separately and given a proper temperature gradient and hides. The easiest way to do this is actually in simple plastic tubs and there is a guide on how to do it here: http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...e-Basics-*DUW*

There is tons of information on this forum if you want to learn more about your snakes. The husbandry forum is the best for getting their living conditions set up right.

As far as snakes biting, their bites are generally very benign and only happen for one of two reasons: feeding or fear. You will learn to recognize when your snake is in one of those states and there are plenty of techniques to snap them out of that mode, the easiest one being to pick them up from behind so they can't bite you. Lastly, if a snake bites someone, it's no reason to kill it. That's just inhumane and cruel. If you don't want your snakes, put them up for adoption or talk to your local herp society about surrendering them.

My son isnt aloud around them. He is too little n too energetic. That alone makes me feel like it would make them uncomfortable therefore more aggressive. I also keep them in my bedroom away from the daily commotion of two dogs, a 19 month old, n normal activity throughout the house. I would never actually harm regardless if they bit or not. I know that they r only reacting to instinct n can not be blamed. i guess that was more of a smart crack without think about how it really sounded to others. Sorry if any one was offended. Yes they r both housed together, they were together when we got them so I assumed keeping them together was better....they r always coiled up together so I never thought anything of it. I have them in the 55 gallon aquarium because I was under the impression their enclosure should be long enough for them to lay out straight. My heat source is an under tank heater beneath their water bowl bc it seems like that helps keep the humidity up where it should be easier n more consistently. I havent had any luck with heat lamps (even on timers) n was told not to use a heat rock at all.

I can not seem to find rats ANYWHERE. Just the feeder mice. 😞 I did not know they should be separated bc like I said they were together when I got them and I've seen snakes in pet stores in the same cage (I know not the best reference lol) but that is why I never gave it a second thought. I would like to learn more about everything about them bc i do like them. Those creepy eyes tho!! 😂😂 I swear when they look at me I feel like they r just waiting to strike even tho I know they most likely are not. I do handle them just not as much as I probably should. Any time I pick them up I do reach from behind gently n use the top of the cage to block their path from turning n biting me. Once I pick them up I'm fine with them (except I keep them from having the ability to bite me in the face bc I always feel like tht is where they r gonna strike me, idk y) I think it is honestly that they r defensive n scared bc I am in their comfort zone. When Chris got bit I think that was bc it was striking for another mouse bc it was shortly after feeding. Like I said in my last reply tho, I honestly would never harm them, I can't even kill a spider. Haha. I have considered letting them go for several reasons. One being I am still uncomfortable with them slightly and another being we recently bought an RV so I could travel a little more with my old man when he is out of town so tht our son can have his daddy. Im so torn with that tho. Like I wanna learn all about them n keep them healthy n happy but at the same time I feel guilty that they deserve better n more time/attention then I an offer. 😞

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Originally Posted by desserjane

I have considered letting them go for several reasons. One being I am still uncomfortable with them slightly and another being we recently bought an RV so I could travel a little more with my old man when he is out of town so tht our son can have his daddy. Im so torn with that tho. Like I wanna learn all about them n keep them healthy n happy but at the same time I feel guilty that they deserve better n more time/attention then I an offer. 😞

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If that's how you feel already, then I think you know the right answer. No animal deserves less than anyone is able to offer.

Well, snakes don't need time and attention like a dog. They need to be kept clean and well-cared for, but they have no emotional need for human contact. So don't worry about them in that regard. But if you feel like it's best to re-home them, that's fine too.

Would you be able to suggest proper tank sizes?? Obviously the "snake person" that has been giving me my information is not as knowledgeable as she let on because everything seems to be wrong and i feel terrible. I knew they seemed "stressed" lately from what I have researched but couldn't figure out why. I am quickly learning why.... everything I was told seems to not be right. �� I am attached to all my animals, even the snakes, so I want to make sure they are all well cared for the best I can. I am willing to put forth the time and effort with the right know how....

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...s%29-Caresheet

Ok I may sound like an idiot here....I was watching my snakes this morning (I haven't separated them yet due to researching the proper information since I have been misinformed) but their "actions" seemed odd to me. Obviously mating was my first thought. I started to Google....at first I as like "no that's not what's going on" but when I returned from smoking a cigarette n looked into the cage.....sure enough their tales are all curled together just like in some of the pictures Google had showed me..... could they really be breeding or mating or whatever the term for snakes is?? If so.....what the hell do I do from here?? I was not expecting for every animal in my house to breed at the same time. ���� I'll do what I gotta do and take the proper steps but first I need to know what those steps are.... I feel all sorts of ways about this right now. *Sigh* excited, nervous, guilty, dumb, anxious, you name it....plz someone help me!!!!

Could they? If male and female yes.
If male and male, more a dominance thing. Just like the "cuddling" is competing for the better spot.

I was told tht they were male n female when I got them. I personally have never had them sexed. Would it be ok if I was to divide the 55 gallon tank in half with plexiglass? I'm getting these things separated today!! Just in case. I feel like I'm getting more then I expected but idk what to do. I'm just trying my best to do the right thing at this point. I feel like people are just reading this n shaking their heads. I'm shaking mine!!! I really wanna do the right n best thing for these snakes. I hope that counts for something. These were not originally my snakes....but I guess they are now. So all I am do is research, learn, and try....

Yes you can divide the tank. A couple 28 quart tubs would be easier and cheaper.
Just remember you still have to regulate their heat sources.

Thank you !! I'm almost positive they were breeding. 😭😭 I would have never thought they couldn't be housed together bc they were together before I got them n counting it out I've had them longer then I thought....about 9½ months. I've never had issues with them at ALL until recently. Now I'm wondering if their attitude was bc they were about to breed?! Now Im researching the crap outta tht. 😞 I had 4 chinchillas n then 11 days ago one of my females had a kit so now I have 5 (for now), I didn't know she was pregnant til I woke up to her giving birth....I just got my dogs fixed, and now the snakes..... Oh boy!!! My entire house is gonna be cages lol my hands r so full!! But what else did I expect right?! I think I'm gonna get the snakes set up properly n sell them. I think I may be in over my head with them bc obviously I don't know what I thought I did. 😮😒 Thanks everyone!! I really appreciate the insight n just want whats best for these critters. I guess only time will tell.

If the female did take and she lays it'd probably be better to just pop/cut the eggs or stick them in the freezer and throw them away so they don't develop. If they're normals(which I'm assuming they are) itll be almost impossible to sell them and it's not worth the trouble to try. Just toss the eggs immediately and they won't develop so you won't be killing anything and won't have to deal with the babies. It's probably too much of a task for you to hatch and start the babies and it's unfortunate but no one wants normals anymore and its better to just let them go before they're hatched so you don't have to hang on to them forever and so they don't end up with someone who won't care.

I was actually talking about the two I have now. But knowing that I have that option make me feel a little better. If I do split the tank with plexiglass for the time being can I use my uth in the center to create both warm ends n use the outside ends as their cool ends?? I can't get the individual set ups right away until chris goes back to work next week. I just wanna make sure we have the money to make it until then and he has the money to get to Alabama n Arkansas from Pennsylvania. (That's his next job locations) if I can't go tht route then I obviously with do what I have to n use my head otherwise to make sure we got what we need. I will be getting scales tmrw to weigh them tho. Also I kind of would prefer to go the tank route vs the tub route. I wanna see them 😍😍 I do really like to watch them!! Would anyone be able to recommend the proper tank size??

The uth can be used in the center as a hot spot for each as long as it's big enough. And for tank sizes I like 40 gallon breeders but you could just buy one and use the 55 gallon for the other if you can take the divider back out. If you don't mind spending a bit more PVC cages are a good option too, they look nice, insulate well, and they can stack up so it takes up less floor space than two tanks

For what it's worth, ball pythons are some of the most low-maintenance animals you can get once everything's set up. It sounds intimidating to find out that everything you thought you knew about how to take care of them is wrong, but relax. They've made it this far, they won't keel over tomorrow. Obviously separating them sooner rather than later so they don't make more is a good idea. But other than that, the main things are having appropriate temperatures and humidity and somewhere to hide, rodents to eat, and poop cleaned up. But they need a whole lot less attention and expense than chinchillas do, and less space, too.

You posted in the "site info" category, which is a bit of an odd place; if you look through the forum, there are lots of other categories such as the one labeled "BP husbandry", the one labeled "DIY etc" and the one labeled "Caging". There's lots of good information in those if you read old threads or do keyword searches, and they are also good places to ask specific questions where more people will go look.

Basically though, you've gotten good advice. The only thing I really want to add is a word of encouragement - you can do it. If you can take care of chinchillas, you can take care of snakes.

You should post a photo of your setup, what do you use for hides? What kind of substrate? What kind of top on the tank?

I have one really aggressive ball python, it sounds just like yours, he keys in on my eyes ready to strike at me from across the room. That's very unusual for a ball python, it makes me wonder if someone mistreated my snake before I got it. All of my other ball pythons are puppy dogs in comparison and would never even strike at me, which it pretty typical. Where did you get those snakes? If they were free you probably know why now, just a bit of a bad attitude.

Personally I would try to incubate the eggs and hatch them out just for the experience. You could probably give away the babies for free on Craig's List and they would go fast, would be an interesting project.

One thing to keep in mind, my very first snakes were Arizona Mountain King snakes and I put two together in a tank, they were always together and looked very cute and seemed very happy. But then the female when into breeding mode, never really laid eggs, but she stopped eating for months and was not at the proper body condition for breeding. She got so skinny I thought she was going to die, but finally started eating again. Hopefully your female is in really good condition because she may go off of food for months in breeding mode.

I have a normal ball python and just love the little guy to death. I got him for free, he was really stunted and I nursed him back to the size he should be, the owners before me were feeding only one fuzzy mouse a month for a whole year! Poor little guy. Now he's up to over 500 grams. I like having a normal in my collection just to see what they are supposed to look like compared to my other morphs, I find even the normal morph really cool looking.

Are you feeding live or frozen thawed? I find that feeding live is pretty dangerous to a snake, and makes them a bit more aggressive. Especially if you are feeding several live mice in a row, I wouldn't recommend it. I'd switch to one frozen thawed medium rat per week per snake. I actually feed my females twice a week but I plan on breeding them, not necessary if you don't plan to breed. You can get frozen thawed rats online, I use rodentpro.com. Shipping is $30 so you will have to buy at least 20 or so to make it worth it. Don't buy too many, I find that after six months they start to smell bad when you thaw them out.

Thank you. I actually didn't know I posted in the site info. I didn't know what I was doing. I just found the button tht said start thread so I could ask a question n pressed it. I've been reading alot of the threads about ball pythons but I'm still figuring out how to even work the sight period. I basically just know how to use the search bar n find this post....lol but thank you again for the encouragement. I never thought it was too hard to take care of them until they started acting weird n getting aggressive. I think I just got nervous with them, bc i used to hold them all the time with no problems. Anymore it's basically just when I put them in the feeding cage n even then I'm still so iffy i use the lid of the cage to put between their head n me....I'm getting used to them again tho slowly. And more n more excited about redoing the cages.... and yes my chinchillas r a handful!! Constant attention to them!! I think that may have added to the snake anxiety....

I've been trying to upload some pics but my service is pretty crappy. I'm having an issue with mytank tho can anyone help....my temps r too low at moment n my humidity is getting too high?? My thermometers r reading about 77 on cool end n 79 on high end....I have a uth as heat source n coconut fiber substrate. I have plastic over half the top to keep heat n humidity in....if I move the plastic to bring down humidity then my temps drop too. Idk what to do?? A heat lamp idt is much of an option bc of the way my lid is constructed. I used to have a heat lamp behind the tank but when the lamp broke it was winter time so I threw the bulb in an old desk lamp until I could get out n get a new one (I was snowed in for days) it cracked the side of the tank. It hasn't been an issue as far as the snakes go but now I am unsure of how to add extra heat to the tank. I could probably get another uth n apply it to the side or back of the tank if that is an option??

Also i think one of my snakes my be a yellow belly (almost positive from all tht I have read) but since I'm not extremely familiar I'm not completely positive....I'll keep trying to upload pictures n make a post bc I know no one can really answer without seeing it, but any advice on tank temps n humidity?? Please and thank you!!!

What type of temp gauge are you using, are you sure its working? Are you sure that your thermostat for heat mat is working?

A possibility is the cage is just too darn big to have these snakes in unless you get bigger heat pad or another...

Are they still housed together?

May be time to consider different housing you can control easily.

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Gauge is zoo meds (I think) it's a digital screen with a probe at the end of a wore....one on each end of tank....i just went n got them tho after reading that alot of ppl do not like the dial ones.

uth mat... I'm not positive if it's working properly (I thought tht too bc really thts about all it could be but maybe there was something I didn't know since there seems to be alot of tht lately) I've never had an issue until recently so....it may be exactly that...

Seems like one issue arose n suddenly I forgot anything n everything I knew about snakes.... I had to start looking everything up again bc I second guessed every move I made. but we all had a bonding moment again the other night n all of a sudden these slithery little creatures tht made me so nervous for some reason (out of the blue) were like little puppies again n I didn't think twice handling them...I disassembled the entire cage n scrubbed it down n played with both snakes for a while n didn't flinch. I like the male better tho, my female still has a mild b*tch vibe... My male weighs 1100g n my female wouldn't cooperate so I gave up.

And yes they r still housed together....I have mixed feelings about separating them. I have done alot of reading on the subject since I was told they needed to be in separate tanks. I get y ppl do not house snakes together MOST of the time but it's not impossible or a dire necessity in my case. These two have been together for years n accept each other quite well. I'm starting to think their random temperament problem may have been bc their cage wasn't right n once I got nervous with them my head took over....it makes sense if their gauges weren't reading correctly n its the uth that isn't workin properly (I know the bottom of the cage gets warm still so it works a little at least) tht they were just uncomfortable/cranky n trying to let me know. Or at least to me it does...ur opinion?? I knew something was wrong but couldn't figure it out....I hope thts my issue bc if not I cnt keep them much longer n I rly would like to....

Oh and I think my humidity issue is resolved....*light bulb moment* 😉😂

Well, even if you haven't had an issues with fighting or going off feed yet, now you know your snakes WILL breed. They do that you'll end up with eggs and being gravid takes a lot out of the female. And if they continue to breed they male will starve himself to death in favor of mating and he will stress out the female by constantly harassing her to breed which will cause her to go off feed and weaken her immune system.
Are you measuring temps above or under the substrate?